Further to the discussion in here

What would be the process to having a little button to click to have your image critiqued by a critiquing team (could be made up of existing senate members or perhaps caedes users with the technical knowledge to offer such critiques)?

Any thoughts would be greatly appreciated! :)

I have a paypal account with zero balance ready for donations...this might encourage me to be an oustanding member of the critiquing team;-)

haha, yeah, I think that this could be a really good thing for users improvement. Perhaps it could even be a paid user only feature (something even more to encourage people to donate to the site).

would this be different in the end from the little "comment request" notices you get? Or the comment request thread in the discussion board? To be honest, I frequently ignore those, which doesn't help the situation of people not getting the comments they deserve.

I don't get a lot of comments myself (all are appreciated however), and even fewer are suggestions for improvement. Caedes has such a potential to boost an artist's knowledge and skills. Unfortunately, this potential isn't being reached. Maybe it's up to users to take it upon themselves to fix this shortfall. I, for one, have decided to never ignore another comment request message I get.

Another suggestion: What if it were made mandatory to comment on - say 3 - of the 10 images that come up in the voting booth to be allowed to upload yourself?

I think mayne have very effectively (and inappropriately) pointed out one of the main problems: we can't rely on the mods for everything. I think that any solution should involve the main contribution coming from the membership. A way to reward good critiques would go a long way to the desired end.

hmm, i kind of like the idea of a critique panel, perhaps on a timed, finite rotation..a week, a month,etc. i'm just making thumbnail sketches here, but maybe a certain number of members, perhaps those with hon kight of dig arts awards, for example.

Interesting, hmm, I agree with Camerama regarding the potential of this site to boost artist's skills and what not.

Yeah, I agree with you as well caedes, we can't rely on the mods to do everything. Perhaps, what third_eye is suggesting about a rotating Critique Panel of members with the special designations would be able to help that out.

However, I think that this so called Critique Panel should have users who are specialized in certain areas (photography, manip's, fractals etc etc) and be able critique on those areas of speciality. I know for myself, I haven't the foggiest clue to what makes a good fractal or know much about photoshop for manips.

And again, I see what you mean caedes about having the main contribution coming from the membership at-large and the need for a way to encourage good critiques. One problem I see (to play devil's advocate for a second, this is probably opening up a whole different can of worms) is how would a good critique be evaluated?

Things to think about I guess.

As Camerama mentioned, "Caedes has such a [huge, I might add] potential to boost an artist's knowledge and skills", and I hope that we can come to a solution and help to improve the site for all user's! :)

Care to elaborate? I mean it's what Caedes.net considers to be a good critique, but how does that apply to the issue at hand? And by that, I mean people not giving critiques and how to encourage critiquing?

Perhaps there a way to make that article more visible on the site (maybe on the front page somewhere)?

what we need is a Pavlov's Spider setup .. comment = cookie


or .. better yet .. comment = karma point


oh, nevermind

~sighs heavily~

Here we go again…

I personally think things took a turn for the worse when the “Friends” thing was added. Again, don’t get me wrong as I’ve met some really great people here and honestly consider them my friend. However, due to lack of time (not a Caedes.net problem, I know) and me being so anal (again, not a Caedes.net problem), I don’t just skim through “new images” and comment randomly as I did prior to the friends list. Now I worry about commenting primarily on my friends post, making post and hitting the discussion board from time to time as well as vote on images. I luv my friends, don’t get me wrong. I just feel the need to comment on their post as they comment on mine. Look through some of my work…I’d say 98% or more comments are my friends, not just someone who stumbled by and thought “hmmm”, I think I’ll comment on this. Again, I realize this is all upon me, myself & I, but, that’s just how me little brain works. I even feel bad uploading a new image before I’ve commented on my friends images first. Recently, whilst voting, I’ve been veering off and make a comment on something superb or trying to give a helping comment on something that could use a wee work to it to make it a smidge better.

I think voting should be mandatory, even for paid members. That’s a whole other issue, I know…you get some who do nature photography and have to vote on fractals or vice a versa. That’s tough, I try to keep in mind, is this an art site or a desktop wallpaper site…there is a difference, but, if you can marry the two then you might for sure be on the right track. I try, for the most part, to make “most” of my photos & fractals user friendly as desktop wallpaper. “Most”, not all. Forcing people to do something they don’t wanna do is hard, more so to grasp the concept of the site. Maybe I’m way off base, I dunno. Again, look at some of the stuff I’ve posted…heck, I wouldn’t use it as desktop wallpaper. So why’d I post it? ~shrugs shoulders~

~scurry’s off and awaits the barrage~

Yeah, I agree with you on voting being manditory, even for members. As well I agree with your thoughts on is this an art site or a wallpaper site. I'd say it would be nice to make it a bit of both (which it is, I think anyway). But I don't really see where you're going with the Friends thing?

I think the critique team or having a "cookie" for users that give good critiques would go along way to helping artists that submit images to this site to improve their images, thus improving Caedes.net as a whole.

Images I archive:

blury
distracting elements
bad color
over-under exposed
crooked
low contrast
date stamps
low resolutions
poor composition
there is already a better image in the permanant galleries

Of course, any one of these can be overlooked if the image moves me in some way.

The fewer the above qualities...the more likely it will get a second look.
The basics of good photography for the most part.

I agree with Geri (except the innapropriate part) we are busy. Canuck, why not start a team?

Also, have you looked in the Offtopic forums, that is where a lot of time is spent;-)

The "friends" list has taken me away from randomly commenting on images...such as yours. If the friends list was no more, I'd have a better chance of trippin' across your image to view and critique.

I agree, we need more "good" critiques, not necessarily "positive" critiques, but, something the artist can use to further what they do. I tell my friends what I think, yet, I use a lot of the same jargon; marvelific, tantalizing, superb gradient, radical and terrific tonalities...I've become adjective crazy utilizing this site.

~checks web for AA meetings in area...Adjective Anonymous~

LOL! to Keith's comments. Gotta say that this is starting to feel a bit like classroom of sorts. What I see here, basically, is a bunch of very artistically inclined people who enjoy having a place to share their work and to see the work of other artistically inclined individuals. People upload images here to share their talents, often after spending considerable time creating them. I, personally, am finding the pressure of the "evaluate, rate, and critique" expectations here distracting.

I come here to see what others share and to share some things of my own. I don't come here to "judge" people's creations or play "art critic." When I comment on an image, I do so because I'm drawn to the image and want to comment and I do so with a deep sense of respect for the artist who took the time to create it and share it rather than as an art critic intent on highlighting defects. If I see something that I think really distracts from the appeal of an image or something that could be added that I think would really increase the appeal, I might well share it with the artist, but, for the most part, I look for the pluses and try to let the artist know that his/her work is appreciated.

People aren't paying for art instruction here, nor are they being paid to share their work. I just think that sometimes members are getting so caught up in "rate and evaluate" that "respect" for respective artists takes a backseat. Don't get me wrong, I think the comments and exchanges about images are a great feature here, but I hope people participate in such exchanges out of a sense of mutual appreciation and respect - - NOT because they feel pressured to "rate and evaluate" images they would rather ignore for whatever reason. Wen

The friends list is optional...you have the choice to remove it.

Didn't mean to step on Darryl, we posted at same time....

A grand example though as Darryl is talking photography, which this site is not about. It's also not about fractals or abstract art...it's a community for people to give other people "desktop wallpapers", correct me if I'm wrong G.

We ALL need to have an open mind on the post we view, the comment we leave and the vote said image we thus give in relation to it being a suitable desktop wallpaper.

Applauds to Wen!!

~hangs head low knowing I'm doin' wrong~

Definite applauds to Wen! I for sure agree with you inregards to people participating with a mutual appreciation of other's work and to not feel pressured to "rate and evaluate".

Critiquing is not necessarily negative at all, it can be quite the opposite sometimes. When I give someone a critique (it's not always as indepth as it could be I'm sure) I try to highlight things that I really enjoy about the image (DOF, perspective, etc) and if I see anything that maybe the image could do without (horizon not level, poor focus, etc) I mention that as well. Of course, this is done with great respect for the artist, as it should be.

Critiquing for me, helps me to see things in my images that perhaps I didn't see before, that someone else pointed out. These things can be good (I hope they're all good ;)) or bad. I had someone point out on an image of mine how poorly I used perspective and I hadn't realized it when I uploaded it. This critique, even though it focused more on the bad things of my image (to be honest there wasn't much good in it at all:)), had me pick up on something that I didn't see at the time, and I'm all the more wiser because of it.

Oh, yeah, before I forget...
Mayne, when I started this thread I intended the critique team to be made up of non-senate/non-moderators, so as to potentially relieve some of the pressures on the senate/moderators so they wouldn't have to deal with this aspect of the site. Which brings me to my next question, how would one go about organizing such a team of critiquer's? Individual members of the team should (in my opinion) be technically skilled in a different art form on caedes.net (fractals, photography, manips, etc) so that any type of image could be critiqued properly (i.e. professionaly, with respect for the artist, address the technical side, etc).

Wow, thats alot to read, I'd better stop before someone chucks something at me! :)

Logic tells me that you should look for those that post images infrequently and maintain high quality.

the "request for comment" forum serves this purpose ... although, to be honest, most people AVOID IT LIKE THE PLAGUE

what, with the soccer moms and the emerging glitterati that this site spawns .. everybody has places to go, people to sniff ..er, .. meet ... i meant meet, really

Yeah, that definately makes sense. I just didn't want to over step my boundries, didn't want to do something that was more the job of the senate members. By that I mean selecting people to tasks and jobs on the site, etc.

Yeah, the request for comment forum does serve this purpose, kind of. But like you say people avoid it. Perhaps some users don't use the discussion boards/don't know the request for comment forum is there? Is there a way to make the users of Caedes.net more a where of the discussion boards? Maybe this team could look after that portion of the website (the request for comment forum)?

you could also do what Madmaven and others have done occasionally ... start a forum thread that encourages members to highlight new member's work and the stellar uploads that you find in your travels

Terrific Newbies Thread

A Voting Game!!!

this would make you a mover and a shaker in the world of caedesian politics .. ;o)

Very interesting idea Keifer, hmmm, I'll have to think of a good thread to start!

I do however think that someone needs to take charge of the "Request for Comment" section of the discussion board. It seems as if there is not much traffic in it, just by looking at the amount of posts in each thread (although maybe the commenting is done more in the actual thread). Is there a way to perhaps draw this feature of caedes.net to it's users?

what "I" think is odd about the "request for comment" forum .. is ... the peeps posting their own request don't seem to visit the posts of others listed below them .. of course, there is the occasional fluke in my theory ... but it seems to be a .. me, me, me .. opportunity

Ha! I've been away too long I guess....didn't even know about the "request for comment" forum. Actually I like that idea better than comment requests under "jobs." It highlights images that people are looking for critical analysis on and it's completely voluntary as to whether members look in on this "discussion" page and participate. Of course, if people post there and request the time of other members to critique their images, it would be courteous to take the time to weigh in on the comment requests of a few others as well.

As for the whole "critiquing" issue, here's an example of what I'm talking about. Someone started out their comments on one of my recent uploads with, "I have 2 complaints....." and then when on to list them and give a bit of positive feedback as well. I'm not trying to draw attention to the person who did so because, most likely, that person was only trying to be helpful. Nonetheless, it strikes me as unfortunate that people might see it as their role to provide "complaints" about images posted here.

"Complaints" about images come across much differently than helpful suggestions/critiques. "Complaints" would seem to center around the needs of the viewer, while "helpful critiques" center around trying to be helpful to the image creator. It may not seem like a significant distinction to some, but, if I think someone is trying to help me, I'm much more receptive than if I think someone is more preoccupied with their own likes and dislikes. Wen

Agreed Wen, it definately takes some tact to come across in the right way when giving a critique.

Wen, out of curiosity, i tracked down the image in question, and read the person's comments. When a person says complaints, my understanding is that they're stating something they see needs work on. Your reaction seems to be a bit over the top here, and quite honestly, the kind of thing that dissuades members from being honest about an image. They said 'complaint' and not 'critique', but in the context of what they had to say, they did offer a critique. Sorry, but your image, as they pointed out, does seem washed out, and yes, the shadow does seem misshapen.

So am i attacking you too? No, of course not. You've been here long enough to know that when you post an image, you're opening it up to comments of every nature. Whether you named the image, or the commentor or not, calling them on the carpet in a forum is, in my opinion, highly immature, and extremely bad form.

I think Wen's not complaining about the actual comment, but more the way it comes across (I looked at it as well). Some tact is required in writing a critique/comment so that the artist does not feel attacked, even though the author of the critique wouldn't have had that in mind when writing (I would hope anyway).

Thanks, Canuck...I wasn't "complaining" at all but, rather, giving an example of how semantics effects how comments are percieved and how the emphasis on "rating" and evaluating images here sometimes prompts people to put offering "complaints" above showing respect. As for overreacting, Rob, your response to my comments seem "a bit over the top," IMO. As I said, I was not finding fault with the person who offered "complaints," as the person was likely only trying to be helpful. Nonetheless, I don't think it's our role to "complain" about other people's work here. Wen

Hmm, but wouldn't you agree that a proper critique of someones work would give the artist something to think about in regards to their next creation that would improve it?

I understand where you're coming from, I really do, but I think that your situation emphasizes even more the case for having a critique team that is capable of giving proper reviews and not "complaining" about artist's work.

I think what you're saying about our role as users is not to complain has some merit. However, I think that what one person says has to be taken with a grain of salt. What I mean by that is one user's critiquing may come across as critiquing to one user but may come off totally different, as more of a complaint, to another user. Something to think about I guess...

My point, Canuck, is that the person I referenced actually used the work "complaint" in their comments...

As for a "proper critique," again I'm really not here to LOOK for defects in other people's work, but, if I see something in the image that I think takes away from its overall appeal OR I think of something that I think might really add to the image, I let people know, qualifying my comments as "my opinion" rather than as something absolute.

As you suggest, "what one person says [should be] taken with a grain of salt," and, in reality, we all have slightly different ideas about what constitutes good art and what doesn't. In short, it's hightly subjective, and I hardly feel that it's my role to suggest to someone else that my view of their work is superior to their own. So, when you say that "a proper critique gives the artist something to think about," I cringe just a little. Again, it sounds a bit too much like an art class than I'm comfortable with. I know what you're getting at, but I just don't feel in a position to "advise" or "instruct" others here. Instead, I feel much more comfortable sharing my perceptions and allowing the artist to decide whether he/she finds them useful. Wen

Have you ever thought that maybe.. just maybe that was the way that person words things.. not everyone can be perfect in their wording... and I read the comment, if it was me I would not have taken that as a "complaint", it was just that persons way of saying that he didnt like the washed out look (and he wasnt the only one who said that).. that was their opinion..

As I said previously, many people will not critique images because of the way some members take offence to the opinions of others, the way it is worded etc..

Maybe if you dont want to have any advice or suggestions write in bold letters at the bottom of the description NO CRITICISIM PLEASE that way the artist wont get offended and upset by help and opinions (they can keep on creating the same work and not improve).. and the commentator wont get abused for giving advice and opinions .. so everyone will be happy little Caedesians..

Btw Wendy "I just don't feel in a position to "advise" or "instruct" others here. Instead, I feel much more comfortable sharing my perceptions and allowing the artist to decide whether he/she finds them useful"... that is still criticism just worded differently IMHO

In the end, people define their personal line between acceptable critique and person attack according to their cultural norms. In order for a multicultural space like caedes.net to function, all members must be willing to adapt to the common culture of the new space. We have defined the caedes.net culture through our Code of Conduct and through other means (such as the guidelines for a good critique). Knowing this culture, it is then the person's responsibility to either work within it or to not participate.

It is part of the stated mission of caedes.net to encourage artistic growth through critical commentary, and I will therefore give much leniency to those members who offer critique. What I am not lenient towards is behavior which discourages critical commentary (such as attacking those who offer critique).

Whether someone uses the word "critique", "comment", or "complaint" is not a worthwhile concern since it is the overall tone and attitude that is important. If the comment is within the bounds of the CoC (and/or follows the suggestion for critiques) then it should be encouraged in my opinion. The one main thing that is not tollerated is a comment which confuses the artist with the art, e.g. "This sucks, you are an idiot."

exactly.. and the comment that was referred to was in the bounds of the CoC, he made a suggestion.. it wasnt offensive and others before him had made the same comment just worded differently..

Wen, it seems like we're having a slight incommuncation. I think that if tact is used in giving a critique then the artist will feel encouraged. The goal isn't to push the views of art (of the user doing the critique) on the artist because art is highly subjective, making an "absolute" answer not possible to give. Rather the goal is exactly as you say "sharing my perceptions and allowing the artist to decide whether he/she finds them useful". It's essentially the same as what I've stated but haven't said directly (was hoping people would pick up on the unsaid).

Perhaps it's the word critique that's the hard part, it can have a negative conotation around it, which is understandable.

To me the words "sharing my perceptions and allowing the artist to decide whether he/she finds them useful" is still giving criticism, critique does not mean that something is wrong with it, its a way of learning, its advice which is given as an opinion from the person commenting, the artist can use or leave it thats their choice... sometimes it helps to see your own art through someone elses eyes... i know myself i have had members suggest a few things which i didnt even notice on the image, once they have given the opinion and i've gone back to look at the pic again.. you can see what they are saying..
IMHO.. i dont feel criticism is a negative, i think its positive, it helps you improve your skills and grow as an artist

So it is agreed. We need a new caedes.net word for "critique." Any suggestions? Hint: Latin words are prefered.

something with a prefix of 'juris'?

I believe evaluation has a rather agreeable tone to it. That shouldn't offend anyone.

I dont think changing the word "critique" will make any difference, some people are still going to get upset and offended if anyone gives advice or suggestions, critiques will still get abused for giving it no matter what your going to call it.. I think the only way you can stop the whining is either have a box to tick or the artist writes in bold in the description PLEASE DO NOT GIVE ME ANY ADVICE OR SUGGESTIONS

I'm not offended when someone critiques or offers suggestions. Like Jacqueline said, sometimes it helps me find things that I could try to improve or change. Unless someone is just plain rude and abusive it doesn't bother me at all.

Corpus consilium

caveat-critiquer

Velico Caedo.. lol

Examples on critiquing an image.... thanks Anne. :c)

*edit* my bad... fixed the link

fidem facere ~ to create confidence

impertio experientia ~ to share knowledge gained by experience with a person

funny enough… I clicked piner's link and the image was gone… when I clicked the "other images by this author" it brought me to *caedes gallery!

secret identity? 8•P

excellent, I'm pleased someone (colocolor) thought of creating a tutorial (with examples) on what makes for a good critique.

ah .. this raises an age old dilemma ...

Who critiques the critiquers?

Back to a point lost...What about this critique team. I'd be all for it, and all over it if it meant I would get some feed-back. Over the last few days I've been trying hard to get out there, find new images/people, and drop some critiques off on things that stood out from the croud. I went through 60+ pages of the new-images gallery. I answered a couple people's cries in the request-for-comment thread. I did my "job" and critiqued the ones that came up when you sign in.

So what do I get in return? 2 comments, neither of which are on images in my gallery. I would love to be on a critique team, but I don't want to take things into my own hands like some vigilante. It could be so simple...have a thread where only the critique team has access, so that members can divy-up the images to the respectful "experts". When a new image is uploaded, have a little check box for "critique this image?" It could work I think. This is primarily a wall paper site, but it is also an art site for those that wish it to be. I guess I'm one of those wishers.

i think personal taste in art is far too diverse to effectively have an objective team to critique a body of work and you would limit the feedback purely to the team members personal opinions and likes/dislikes.

these opinions would doubtless cause even more controversy/wailing/gnashing of teeth to add the existing hefty pile and could even exaggerate the occasional fit of rampant ego mania that also isn’t exactly a stranger here either.

Gnashito Ergo Sum

Si fractum non sit, noli id reficere

Amen Phil.....................................

and the english translation would be..? my guess would be if you cant take the heat, get outa the kitchen?

Si fractum non sit, noli id reficere ~ If it ain't broke, don't fix it.

"Si fractum non sit, noli id reficere ~ If it ain't broke, don't fix it."

Welllll.. to my pea brain, things may not be completely broken, but, could use some retooling at the very least.


*caedes - 10/11/06 20:27

"In the end, people define their personal line between acceptable critique and person attack according to their cultural norms. In order for a multicultural space like caedes.net to function, all members must be willing to adapt to the common culture of the new space. We have defined the caedes.net culture through our Code of Conduct and through other means (such as the guidelines for a good critique). Knowing this culture, it is then the person's responsibility to either work within it or to not participate.

It is part of the stated mission of caedes.net to encourage artistic growth through critical commentary, and I will therefore give much leniency to those members who offer critique. What I am not lenient towards is behavior which discourages critical commentary (such as attacking those who offer critique).

Whether someone uses the word "critique", "comment", or "complaint" is not a worthwhile concern since it is the overall tone and attitude that is important. If the comment is within the bounds of the CoC (and/or follows the suggestion for critiques) then it should be encouraged in my opinion. The one main thing that is not tollerated is a comment which confuses the artist with the art, e.g. "This sucks, you are an idiot." "


Will be working on something in the vein of this discussion to unveil soon to those interested.


In the interim, if anyone else has some ideas on this (that is; how to go about formalizing/structuring this 'group', etc.)?

Feel free to share your thoughts.

Again, some more words from *caedes from another discussion thread:

*caedes - 11/01/05 18:49

"Well that's what the comments are for. There is only so much that a bunch of numbers can tell you. Why attempt to add more and more numbers (voting categories) when the real problem is getting people to take the time to give _ANY_ input."


Seems that this is a recurring challenge to the site and membership.

Maybe the initiative has to come from.. within the rank and file?

I'm thinking.. keep it simple.

Meaning; insofar as a 'constructive critique' is concerned.. follow the format outlined in "How to Give a good review."

Found here: Giving an Image Review

And I quote;

"The comment area below the caedes.net images is for reviewing the author's image. Much like a review of a restaurant or movie, you are expected to give a balanced reaction to the work. This reaction should be mature, polite, and backed up by details, proof, or examples. The purpose of the review should be to help the author advance in skill by offering your own knowledge and/or talent.

* Do include one or more point that you particularly like about the image.
* Do include one or more points that you don't like.
* Do offer advice on how the image could be improved or how the author's skills could be improved.
* Don't be afraid of hurting someone's feelings. As long as your review is mature and polite most people will love your attention.
* Don't simply state "It's awesome" or "It sucks," such statements without elaboration are useless and waste space on the site. What's awesome to a 3 year old could be awful anyone else. You have to prove that your perspective is worth considering. The best way to do this is to back up your opinions with insightful suggestions for improvement.
* Don't conduct private conversations between someone other than the author of the image. Use the Personal Message service or offtopic discussion forum instead."

No muss, no fuss.. and best of all, *caedes approved.


The 'Critique Group/Team' itself.

Let the group of interested members police themselves.

I.e. If a member is not reciprocating.. simply don't respond to any requests/postings.

Bearing in mind that there might be varying skill levels/understanding ... and/or technical proficiencies (hardware, software) in existence. As long as someone follows the guidelines that should suffice in mind. Simply put.. putting forth an effort should count and not dismiss a member from participating and benefiting.


To alert one another to each other's presence on site and interest in pursuing this within the community.. suggest adding this closing line to your image's accompanying narrative:

"Seeking constructive critiques on images posted, as I wish to improve."

I think that's a good call. 8•)

And just as soon as I make it past the company potluck, my new niece, thanksgiving, my parents pre-Tday party, I'll be working on commenting on images more. Shouldn't take more than 2 or 3 weeks. lol.

We shall await your insight and constructive critiques.. with pleasure.

:o)

I totally agree. Most of the time, the "critiques" I see on my photos (and others) are like "I like the colors" or "What a beautiful sunset, it must have been nice". These "critiques" mean nothing to people who really want to improve their work. I hope this takes off, and I'll be putting that closing line in all my uploaded photos.

I'm a late arrival to this thread and may have missed some points in trying to catch up, but here is my opinion...

I like the idea of being able to request critiques because many people are reluctant to hurt anyone's feelings by giving anything more than compliments or don't really want much constructive criticism on their own posts or a particular one that was just for a laugh. That's their prerogative and I feel that's fine. I like the freedom of diversity (and the freedom of speech)

I don't feel that the current "request for comment" works very well because you are required to search out a different thread to do so. Who wants to do that?

I think that when we upload an image we could have an option to click a box that adds a caption "Request for Constructive Criticism" or something of the sort which would be added (if we want) to the bottom of our commentary. The "Request for Constructive Criticism" caption would also be a link to the guidelines for "Critiquing an Image" That would let people know (including newcomers) it's very desirable to give more than compliments on that image for anyone who views it. Of course anyone is still free to give critiques and say whatever they want on any image. But I think this might work better and not add an extra work load to a "team" and not put any particular group in the spotlight for more issues to arise about, also keeping options and freedoms of diversity open. How does this idea sound to you all?

If you still want a team (or even if not) maybe the "Request for Constructive Criticism" posts could also be added to their own gallery in addition to whatever category they belong in the way it's done for contests. That way those images are easy to find.

"How does this idea sound to you all?"

Sounds good good, Lisa.

And I really appreciate the apparent aforethought in your post covering any and all concerns towards the end goal(s) that are at the root of this discussion thread.


If I may, however..

Your suggestion above about adding a check box/displaying a "Request for Constructive Criticism".. has been put forth many a time. In various shapes and forms, with some even incorporating a 'level of critique' desired.

For whatever reason or reasons (time constraints, necessary changes to site code, et al).. never came to fruition.


"Maybe the initiative has to come from.. within the rank and file?"

So, rather than waiting.. this initiative here.


"It is part of the stated mission of caedes.net to encourage artistic growth through critical commentary, and I will therefore give much leniency to those members who offer critique. What I am not lenient towards is behavior which discourages critical commentary (such as attacking those who offer critique)." - *caedes

"Your suggestion above about adding a check box/displaying a "Request for Constructive Criticism".. has been put forth many a time. In various shapes and forms, with some even incorporating a 'level of critique' desired." etc...

Ahh, I see. But maybe my particular form has not been suggested? I was pretty much just elaborating from the above topic statement of this thread~

"What would be the process to having a little button to click to have your image critiqued by a critiquing team...? Any thoughts would be greatly appreciated! :)"

Those were my thoughts. Maybe after enough suggestions one will be chosen and brought to umm... fruition. I think my suggestions fall within all guidelines and *caedes' quote you stated as well... or, erm... maybe I don't quite follow your point? I don't think I understand what you mean. How is caedes quote taking initiative?

Oops.. so much for my trying to be succinct. Ok, clarifying..

"But maybe my particular form has not been suggested?"

Any of the past suggestions in this vein have had at their roots one commonality.. that of changes required to the site's code to implement them. This would include yours as well, Lisa. Not impossible, mind you.


Again, your idea is a good good one and one that I would agree would work.

Particularly on the note(s) of linking to 'how to give a good image review' for newcomers, in addition to alerting other members that 'constructive criticism' is being actively sought.

Or, conversely.. if unchecked and not having the message displayed a la 'I just wish to share my work/images/photos and am not seeking any constructive input/comments' (<--- for lack of a better phrasing).



The initiative here is getting members that share a common interest in receiving 'constructive critiques'.. together. The suggestion of adding a line to their image's accompanying narratives to alert other like-minded members would accomplish that (no changes to code needed).

As well as this discussion thread in facilitating that objective (members could do as pauldb did above and post here to this thread).


*caedes' quote.

His own personal vision/mission statement for our beloved site, in short.

And it supports/underscores the reasons for resurrecting this idea/discussion thread and moving forward towards the stated objective(s) quoted ... without loading *caedes' plate further (he is the only one that does the coding for the site).

Okay, I get what you mean now. Thank-you Les I appreciate that :)

I didn't really see it as if when it went unchecked that it meant you can't or shouldn't critique it. I don't think it would have a negative effect or negative changes compared to how things are now in any way. I feel that it falls under the current codes (if 'codes' means rules of conduct) and would promote more people getting/wanting proper critiques.

If clicking the box also put the images into a common gallery it covers the initiative of "getting members that share a common interest in receiving 'constructive critiques'.. together." I have added lines in my narrative asking for critiques before. I've gotten some response from it. I would personally rather have the box to check, but eh. Whatever shall be shall be.

I understand that *caedes' plate must be quite full. That being the case, I don't really see the point of me suggesting any ideas for improving the site. For some reason I thought this thread originated from a different thread about improving the site. I see now that I was mistaken.
Maybe by 'coding' you meant how the site is constructed? That would make more sense. Oh well. I put my 2 cents in. Take it or leave it ;)

"I understand that *caedes' plate must be quite full. That being the case, I don't really see the point of me suggesting any ideas for improving the site."

And I understand how some could come to view making suggestions as stated above.

Here is this particular matter in a nutshell, I believe..

Adding stuff/making changes to site's code, et al.. on this note ... is redundant. It's stated quite clearly that a 'good review' is more than just that of saying an image is 'awesome'.. or similarly worded comments.

Will or should every member offer up 'constructive critiques'?

No.


Why do this then?

I've received numerous PMs (read; 'lots and lots') from members searching out advice, tips, etc.. towards the ends of them improving in their respective areas of art.

There have been public discussion threads and posts relevant to this topic on other discussion threads.. in which these members state their disillusionment and disappointment (yet, understanding) concerning the lack of constructive criticism on images. (Stemming from those on their own works at that time, aside from elsewhere ... see pauldb's post above at 19/11/11 14:21 as an example.)

They came here to learn. Found a community that is supportive, sure.. just not what they had originally thought or expected.

And.. left.

So..

If this initiative gets those interested together and keeps them here and happy.. while allowing other members to do as they see fit.. win-win.

No extra coding to be done towards that end.. less for *caedes to attend to.. win-win.

And as I stated above ... I believe the thinking on this is viewed by him as redundant as well. And therefore he never implemented any of the suggested changes along these lines in the past.

Okay. So.... basically you invited me to this thread to tell me that my suggestions are very good but pointless and you can see why people might feel that suggestions are pointless, that changes are redundant, several people still don't like just compliments but everybody will live happily ever after because we can suggest that we want constructive criticism in our narratives and nothing changes.

I'm going to go do something else Les. Thanks for including me but I still feel like my participation in this thread is completely pointless. Plus, there doesn't seem to be anybody else here...
Listen...
*crickets chirping*

I alerted you to this discussion, Lisa, noting from our PMs and your posts on other discussion threads that the reason (or one of) for you coming back that this place was that is was a great place to learn.


Making suggestions in this thread.

"Any of the past suggestions in this vein have had at their roots one commonality.. that of changes required to the site's code to implement them. This would include yours as well, Lisa. Not impossible, mind you."

And as noted above, it is not impossible.. nor improbable that any suggestions made would NOT be implemented.

I was being honest in answering the questions that you posed and keeping expectations reasonable, from my perspective. That's all.


Anyways, enjoy your time on the site and do as you see fit. And thanks for participating. Sincerely.

I forgot to add my winking smiley faces so you would know that I wasn't mad or anything. Admittedly I was being a little smart but I see it came off much worse than intended. I do appreciate your honesty Les and thank-you for acknowledging my suggestion. I also appreciate the sincere approval. But I still don't feel that anything more I say here could accomplish much of anything. I can't think of anything else to add about the subject we're supposed to be discussing that would be of any importance. So I will leave you all to it....
Have a good evening Les :)

No worries, you will be hearing from my lawyers. (Re: Compensation for duress.)

... ...

... ...

I keed, I keed.

:o)

You just have to have the last word, don't you?! (hehe!)