This is an effort to approach some kind of middle ground.

I have read most, not all of the discussions surrounding the C-Index ... and a number of times the number of views and downloads have been brought into the discussion.

So ...

How would everybody feel about incorporating those numbers for views/downloads ... and weighting it somehow to balance the inhouse scores?

For example; 50% Views/Downloads ... 50% C-Index.

Now what determines a great image insofar as Views/Downloads could be calculated by those already in the permanent galleries. It might be a ratio, or pure numbers.

My thinking here is that it might speed up the process of reaching a fair and somewhat statistically acceptable number to satisfy those that feel 16, 17, 18, etc., votes are not a large enough sample.

Hmm ... it might even encourage more participation if visitors are aware that they are impacting the 'score,' per se.

Ok, wheres' my cookies for my most excellent of solutions?? :oP

That's how the c-index used to be calculated actually (don't think it was fifty fifty but the v/dl ratio had some influence). I can't recall exactly why it was changed but I think there was a good reason...

I know the voting system isnt going to change.. but... i still think if the index was worked on V/D instead of voting it would keep the unhappy ones a little bit happier... but then again probably not cos doesnt matter how its worked it will still be complained about... ;)

Well, the V/D ratio wil also be biased. Seeing as people in the voting booth have to view the full sized image that would count as a download (I'm not sure about this, but assuming that it is the case) so it could inflate the dl numbers.

How about limiting uploads to one per day -
but have a once a week place to upload purely for analysis and comments on an image.
This place to be cleared each week?
I really do look for critiques, rather than "love this" - or comments on the subject matter, rather than the photo taking.

Or maybe a system to facilitate people getting together in pairs or groups and undertaking to critique each other's work? Not quite sure how this could best be done, but it would enable people to maybe pair up with someone producing similar images to their own and then exchange critiques for a period of time - 6 images, say. I don't know, but I'd be interested in participating in that sort of idea and it wouldn't put any additional strain on the servers. It could just be organised from a forum or thread. I'm thinking it might work better than the "Request for Comments" thread because it would involve exchanging critiques for a series of images. This would enable people to comment on improvements they saw etc. It would also enable people to get feedback from people doing the same kind of work and to critique images similar to the ones they themselves are working on. I also think people would be more comfortable giving honest feedback in this situation since they would know the person really wanted that, and it would encourage constructive criticism since that's the sort of thing most people involved would be looking for.

Just a thought...

- cfr

Well the way I see it an open classification of 'critiques' as your classification of a picture would be sufficient. Then anyone who wanted to could look at that gallery and give a critique of any picture, without the picture being included for voting of course. In this way those who want to see other work, give and receive critiques and an interchange of ideas, could do so in this forum.
At least in this way you would know that someone wanted the critique - and wouldn't go 'pale pink' when told something was out of focus etc!

Good good.

This is far more productive in my mind.

I think that we can all agree that regardless of which system or systems are put into place ... there will be some shortcomings.

As a result ... I consider the C-Index, methods of asking for critiques et al, part of the evolutionary process ... that will be forever ongoing. There will always be 'growing pains.'

Thanks to all ... thus far ... who have participated in this discussion. You have expressed yourselves extremely well ... and without rancour or hyperbole.

Rancour or hyperbole? I went to the doctor and didn't have either one...much to my relief.

Has your doc been to Caedes?...might be a different story then. You might be positive for CID.

My doctor was here and said if the site goes artsy ala deviant art that there won't be a c-index. They will put a little star or two next to your work as a little reward. Proof that someone actually looked at it. My doctor will put me on some kind of medication if and when that happens.

Nah! Just get some dark glasses!

I have the truck backed up to my gallery just in case.

so, if you no longer receive a score for your work, you'll remove it?

Yup....probably won't have to remove it...just won't even put it up.

then perhaps you might want to re-examine why you post your work in the first place. recognition is nice, but I would think sharing with others would be more important.

if, on the other hand, you're just looking for your ego to get stroked, maybe a hiatus wouldn't be a bad idea.

I'll say flat out, it sounds like your saying "play my way, or i'm taking my toys and going home", and that's not even something i'd expect from the younger members on the site, let alone someone like yourself.

if my comments offend, i'm sorry. but lately the maturity level on the site has taken a nose dive, and i for one am tired of walking on eggshells. maybe it's time the site does go through some changes.

I'm just amazed someone puts such importance on a score generated from 20 random voters. We have a little saying and it goes - those you meet on the way up... you meet on the way down. Everyone wants to get encouragement from others - but tastes differ and change - and what is great today, may not be tomorrow's choice.
I would have thought you gained more, DigiCamMan from contact with your peers (unless you consider there are only a few) - than from a few numbers! Is ArtUproar better? Or Flickr?

Flickr is a file sharing dumping ground that, for the most part, is where rippers seam to deposit their stolen goods. not really an art site of any description.

It's not a matter of ego Rob. I use the index as a general view of how the pic goes over. I am trying to sell some and I find this useful when posting pics for sale...it seems to stand pretty true as to how they are rated on those sites. I could be satisfied uploading one a month, that's sharing isn't it? Let's not start blowing a lot of smoke.

And Kate I have gained more from my peers than possibly you would understand and it's not about numbers but friendships...that's why I stay here. Let's be real...everyone says how great your pics are and then oddly it bombs in the VB. Still the index represents some form of the worth of a pic. If I wasn't trying to sell them I could care less. When I shut my computer down and go to work no one is the wiser.

I would like the option to comment in the voting booth when viewing and perhaps the comments could go to the persons personal mail. Would that be too difficult? I think that it would also go along way in giving ego strokes and help with the technical advice. I know I like a bit of both from my submissions

you can go straight to the image from the voting booth already once you have voted on it by just clicking the thumbnail that appears below the main voting preview.

Well ... let's see ... since 01/06/07 posting by my own self ... there has been only one suggestion made and that one is two posts above this one.

Nicely done folks. :o\

*takes his ball with him ... and goes home*

Hey Les.....uh....is this one yours too?.....*picks up gently....follows Les.....