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Feature Bloat / Bug Squash
Discussion Board -> Feature Bloat / Bug Squash -> If I could...
If I could...
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Hmmmm……
1) Would most likely lead to an increase in inconsequential and unhelpful comments been left merely for the sake of it out of obligation and probably see an increase in the age old practice of bigging up your mates and vote attacking your enemies.
2) the upload to vote quota is intended to promote active participation in the site and, if you have to put some effort into getting your image uploaded it may also encourage the artist to increase the standard of the work they submit.
3) the perms are designed to showcase quality or interesting work focusing on the originality and effort gone into a piece regardless of its content. Dumping any and every image into these would dilute the overall experience for visitors to the site. Tastes do change and periodically images form the perms are archived to reflect this. Most artists will also dispose of work they are no longer happy with voluntarily which seams to work fine as it is.
4) seams fair enough.
I still think Robs suggestion of having an opt out option for voting/galleries as opposed to just circumventing it and becoming a deviantart style dumping ground as much more merit.
1) Would most likely lead to an increase in inconsequential and unhelpful comments been left merely for the sake of it out of obligation and probably see an increase in the age old practice of bigging up your mates and vote attacking your enemies.
2) the upload to vote quota is intended to promote active participation in the site and, if you have to put some effort into getting your image uploaded it may also encourage the artist to increase the standard of the work they submit.
3) the perms are designed to showcase quality or interesting work focusing on the originality and effort gone into a piece regardless of its content. Dumping any and every image into these would dilute the overall experience for visitors to the site. Tastes do change and periodically images form the perms are archived to reflect this. Most artists will also dispose of work they are no longer happy with voluntarily which seams to work fine as it is.
4) seams fair enough.
I still think Robs suggestion of having an opt out option for voting/galleries as opposed to just circumventing it and becoming a deviantart style dumping ground as much more merit.
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A smart bomb is only as clever as the idiot that tells it what to do
Here's my view:
1) Not many people would vote, and the people who do vote will have too much influence - their tastes may be off.
2) the 10 vote rule thing is what got me into photography - partly
3) The reason caedes is popular (partly) is because it contains quality wallpapers. By letting all of the newimages work go into the 'perms' would scare everybody off. It's kindof like showcasing a kindergradener's art in a fine art museum for a month.
4) Some people who have been inactive for 18 months may have great images. One of which was featured yesterday (the one with the astroids hitting the planet). he hasnt logged in for a year or so. Though deleting inactive members that havent logged in for 18 months nor have any images in the perms is ok. <-- Is that what you meant?
Instead of 4, maybe there could be a permanent gallery cleaning staff for 100 people who. The goal would be to trim off 30% of the gallery or something like that.
1) Not many people would vote, and the people who do vote will have too much influence - their tastes may be off.
2) the 10 vote rule thing is what got me into photography - partly
3) The reason caedes is popular (partly) is because it contains quality wallpapers. By letting all of the newimages work go into the 'perms' would scare everybody off. It's kindof like showcasing a kindergradener's art in a fine art museum for a month.
4) Some people who have been inactive for 18 months may have great images. One of which was featured yesterday (the one with the astroids hitting the planet). he hasnt logged in for a year or so. Though deleting inactive members that havent logged in for 18 months nor have any images in the perms is ok. <-- Is that what you meant?
Instead of 4, maybe there could be a permanent gallery cleaning staff for 100 people who. The goal would be to trim off 30% of the gallery or something like that.
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...My Gallery
Just a comment: insofar as philcuk is correct to think artists will delete out-dated images etc. themselves (thus clearing the permanent galleries), artists no longer active on the site will have galleries lacking a crucial self-regulating control. If their images are in the permanent galleries, therefore, the clearing of those galleries will get stuck as those artists won't be around to delete outdated images themselves...
I assume this is the thought behind (4)?
- cfr
I assume this is the thought behind (4)?
- cfr
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1) Phil: And the situation, where it stands now, people are required to vote on images that they oppose or “just don’t understand”, so they deliberately vote low on them? All from the safety of an anonymous voting booth, where they don’t have to verbalize why they voted the way they did? Isn’t that “vote attacking” a particular genre of art?
My thoughts of the C-Index, is to scrap that even. Why not do something more along the lines as a “5 Star” vote. Stars don’t even need to be used... as this is a wallpaper site, use monitors (congratulations, your wallpaper has scored 3.5 monitors). Of course, you can’t vote without commenting. That way, you know who commented and hopefully why. If not, you then know who to ask. Make voters accountable for WHY they voted the way they did.
Is the C-Index that important to me? NO. I do use the C-Index, comments, and view/download ratios as a gauge though, when I make the decision to post future images. Just because it isn’t accepted here, it doesn’t mean that it will be looked upon differently in other venues, such as Rendo or DA.
Am I here to learn? YES. Just because someone doesn’t know the “why” or the “how” it works, doesn’t mean they don’t have an opinion. My roommate doesn’t know diddly squat about how I do who I do with the programs I use, but it doesn’t stop her from using her own artistic sense and brain to point things out to me, when I’m working on a image. SO, even from the “uneducated”, your opinions & thoughts do matter.
Noah: Peoples tastes may be off? As if that isn’t the situation now? People vote now, because it is a requirement. And, not so much as a privilege, except for the cadre and above. Perhaps if people didn’t feel like it was a chore/duty to vote, perhaps there would be less “vote attacking” of genres.
2) Phil: I gotta disagree with that one. The requirement to vote didn’t spur me on to raise my personal bar for the quality of artwork I put together. It was the images that other people had posted that dives me to reach new highs. Nathan, Lauren, Jerry, Larry, Moe, Kodo, Wendy, Bob (just to name a few), these are the people that spurred me on to reach higher.
Noah: I’m not discounting that the VB can expand ones appreciation for a genre they may not normally go for. On the contrary, these other genres further spur me on. Computer illustration, adds to my basic knowledge when it comes to putting my images together. Fractal art helps to show how flow/movement along with color can spur thoughts and emotions. Photography, in of itself is a study in the play of light and shadows and delineating your subject matter between fore, mid, and backgrounds. Each and every one of these genres plays a role when I look for inspiration. In my minds eye, its like saying you can’t have religion without a church or faith without a holy book.
3) Ah.. the crux of the problem, as well as the C-Index, in my opinion. Often it seems we see questions about the Perms and the C-Index, and more often than not, people never seem to be happy with the answers.
“the perms are designed to showcase quality or interesting work focusing on the originality and effort gone into a piece regardless of its content.” Cool, but does the C-Index play into that? I, myself, wonder just how much it does, as I’ve had, as well as seen, images with a C in the 30’s make it in. So, why maintain a function that aggravates people so much? Ditch it from something different, and/or let it be know that it doesn’t play a part in whether an image makes it into the perms or not. By doing so, you lessen the impact of “vote attacking”, if not out & out discouraging it.
About “diluting the overall experience for visitors”. OK, I’ll give you that one. But, it isn’t just about the new visitors either. It’s also about maintaining the “happiness” of the current contributors also. When people actually believe that their C-Indexes play a part in getting their images into the Perms and feel that images are being “vote attacked” because of their chosen genre, some happy medium needs to be found. Which leads me back again to trashing the voting/C-Index system.
4) Yes, I am talking about cleaning out old accounts that have been inactive. Make room for currently active members. Why keep around the dead weight?
___________________________________
OK... I think I’ve done enough ranting for the night... Hopefully this provides a wee bit of “light reading” for those interested. :oP
My thoughts of the C-Index, is to scrap that even. Why not do something more along the lines as a “5 Star” vote. Stars don’t even need to be used... as this is a wallpaper site, use monitors (congratulations, your wallpaper has scored 3.5 monitors). Of course, you can’t vote without commenting. That way, you know who commented and hopefully why. If not, you then know who to ask. Make voters accountable for WHY they voted the way they did.
Is the C-Index that important to me? NO. I do use the C-Index, comments, and view/download ratios as a gauge though, when I make the decision to post future images. Just because it isn’t accepted here, it doesn’t mean that it will be looked upon differently in other venues, such as Rendo or DA.
Am I here to learn? YES. Just because someone doesn’t know the “why” or the “how” it works, doesn’t mean they don’t have an opinion. My roommate doesn’t know diddly squat about how I do who I do with the programs I use, but it doesn’t stop her from using her own artistic sense and brain to point things out to me, when I’m working on a image. SO, even from the “uneducated”, your opinions & thoughts do matter.
Noah: Peoples tastes may be off? As if that isn’t the situation now? People vote now, because it is a requirement. And, not so much as a privilege, except for the cadre and above. Perhaps if people didn’t feel like it was a chore/duty to vote, perhaps there would be less “vote attacking” of genres.
2) Phil: I gotta disagree with that one. The requirement to vote didn’t spur me on to raise my personal bar for the quality of artwork I put together. It was the images that other people had posted that dives me to reach new highs. Nathan, Lauren, Jerry, Larry, Moe, Kodo, Wendy, Bob (just to name a few), these are the people that spurred me on to reach higher.
Noah: I’m not discounting that the VB can expand ones appreciation for a genre they may not normally go for. On the contrary, these other genres further spur me on. Computer illustration, adds to my basic knowledge when it comes to putting my images together. Fractal art helps to show how flow/movement along with color can spur thoughts and emotions. Photography, in of itself is a study in the play of light and shadows and delineating your subject matter between fore, mid, and backgrounds. Each and every one of these genres plays a role when I look for inspiration. In my minds eye, its like saying you can’t have religion without a church or faith without a holy book.
3) Ah.. the crux of the problem, as well as the C-Index, in my opinion. Often it seems we see questions about the Perms and the C-Index, and more often than not, people never seem to be happy with the answers.
“the perms are designed to showcase quality or interesting work focusing on the originality and effort gone into a piece regardless of its content.” Cool, but does the C-Index play into that? I, myself, wonder just how much it does, as I’ve had, as well as seen, images with a C in the 30’s make it in. So, why maintain a function that aggravates people so much? Ditch it from something different, and/or let it be know that it doesn’t play a part in whether an image makes it into the perms or not. By doing so, you lessen the impact of “vote attacking”, if not out & out discouraging it.
About “diluting the overall experience for visitors”. OK, I’ll give you that one. But, it isn’t just about the new visitors either. It’s also about maintaining the “happiness” of the current contributors also. When people actually believe that their C-Indexes play a part in getting their images into the Perms and feel that images are being “vote attacked” because of their chosen genre, some happy medium needs to be found. Which leads me back again to trashing the voting/C-Index system.
4) Yes, I am talking about cleaning out old accounts that have been inactive. Make room for currently active members. Why keep around the dead weight?
___________________________________
OK... I think I’ve done enough ranting for the night... Hopefully this provides a wee bit of “light reading” for those interested. :oP
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I always try to balance the light with the heavy - a few tears of human spirit in with the sequins and the fringes ~
Bette Midler
~ ~ (My GALLERY, such as it is.) ~ :o)
1) I believe that when we do change the voting system, it *could* be worse. The current system isn't that bad if you actually think about it. Once in a while there is a chaotic score but yeah...that's my experience. Anyways, you're gonna have to convince caedes to...program?...write?...err...it which he doesnt really get anything out of.
4) I still prefer changing it to: Cleaning out old accounts that have no images in the perms are deleted. - these guys arn't dead weight.
4) I still prefer changing it to: Cleaning out old accounts that have no images in the perms are deleted. - these guys arn't dead weight.
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...My Gallery
And, until then, I'll back Rob's proposal for being able to opt out on the VB/Perms. Because, quite frankly, I'm rather tired of offering images to the meat grinder that I spent 10+ hours working on (not counting rendering times), only to have it voted into oblivion. It would be different if the people to don't think it's very good, would have at least the "brass ones" to come out and say why they didn't like it.
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I always try to balance the light with the heavy - a few tears of human spirit in with the sequins and the fringes ~
Bette Midler
~ ~ (My GALLERY, such as it is.) ~ :o)
Honestly, I haven't voted in several months ... something I opted out of for myself. With dial-up service it takes me several hours to vote (even when I divide it up & vote 5 at a time). For me it is tedious & I just don't have the time ... it is much more easier for myself to go through the new images & comment when something catches my attention. Whether the c-index plays a part in the voting system, honestly both mean very little to me ... I just look at the quality & presentation of the image when I view new images & comment (currently I have had very little time to do that). I took a peek at Rob's proposal & totally agree. I would love to see images constantly evolving in their appropriate galleries also. Remember change is always good & better for the most part ... anyways that is my experience. To sum it up ... art is in the "eye of the beholder".
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Save the Polar Bears
look at the new images gallery...compare it to the perms...imagine the dilution of quality.
If I had to comment on everybody I had gave a score below 10....oh boy, i'd be up until 2am commenting.
I enjoy the c-index. If i want to look at something good, and new, i flip sort to c-index and wow! gr8 pictures...they also always rotate frequently.
*edit* i mean 5...i though i typed 5, not 10.
If I had to comment on everybody I had gave a score below 10....oh boy, i'd be up until 2am commenting.
I enjoy the c-index. If i want to look at something good, and new, i flip sort to c-index and wow! gr8 pictures...they also always rotate frequently.
*edit* i mean 5...i though i typed 5, not 10.
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...My Gallery
Noah ... I don't comment on every new image ... I do have a life outside of Caedes & remember I am one of the unlucky one's that can only get dial-up service. If I did, then I would be here 24/7. LOL. I do browse through the galleries from time to time, but I prefer to do it by date ... that way if I missed something new that made it into the perm's recently I will notice it immediatley. Everyone has their own preferences as far has how they view images whether randomly, by date, or c-index. I very seldom look at the c-index on an image ... in other words what I may think is a quality image the next person may not & vise versa. It's like I love liver & onions, but my husband thinks it is disgusting.
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Save the Polar Bears
I've voiced my opinion on most of the matters in other places, but I have yet to toss in my 2 cents on #4… so…
I thoroughly disagree with the idea of deleting old/inactive accounts and removing their images from the permanent galleries. Reviewing the permanent galleries for images that are maybe no longer quite up to snuff, or slipped through, I'm all for that.
But the fact that someone isn't active anymore doesn't mean that I as a newer member should be denied the opportunity to view and download work that was considered worthy of permanent status. I've got a few pieces in my favs that are from such artists, and unfortunately, I've lost some from people who have chosen to voluntarily take their art with them when they leave.
I mean… does that mean we should also consider Monet and DaVinci and Goya to no longer be relevant just cuz they haven't done anything recently? lol.
I thoroughly disagree with the idea of deleting old/inactive accounts and removing their images from the permanent galleries. Reviewing the permanent galleries for images that are maybe no longer quite up to snuff, or slipped through, I'm all for that.
But the fact that someone isn't active anymore doesn't mean that I as a newer member should be denied the opportunity to view and download work that was considered worthy of permanent status. I've got a few pieces in my favs that are from such artists, and unfortunately, I've lost some from people who have chosen to voluntarily take their art with them when they leave.
I mean… does that mean we should also consider Monet and DaVinci and Goya to no longer be relevant just cuz they haven't done anything recently? lol.
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One man sees things and says "why?" - but I dream things that never were and I say "why not?"
First, i meant: If i had to comment on every image i voted below a 5, i'd be up until 2 am. Err, sorry for the confusion.
Oh, since were on the dialup convo, in nepal we had dialup (possibly the worst internet on earth). Even so, I still played runescape. =P It had a 10 second lag time.
And for the ppl who do have slow internet, maybe a comment should count as a vote?...or something like that. Or members can share their votes, like if sum1 wants to upload and cant vote, i'll make the 10 votes for them.
Oh, since were on the dialup convo, in nepal we had dialup (possibly the worst internet on earth). Even so, I still played runescape. =P It had a 10 second lag time.
And for the ppl who do have slow internet, maybe a comment should count as a vote?...or something like that. Or members can share their votes, like if sum1 wants to upload and cant vote, i'll make the 10 votes for them.
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...My Gallery
1) Lets disassemble the voting booth and make voting a voluntary thing again. However, you can't place a vote on an image without providing a comment.
2) Upload amounts: Keep the uploads as they are (without the mandatory 10 vote rule for non-cadre members).
3) Do away with the "Perms", as we know it.
New uploads stay the "New Images" category for a month. After that, they are then submitted to their appropriate category. Where they remain for a year, and then are archived.
That way, the new "permanent catagories" are continually evolving, along with the technical skills of the community and improved program functionality of the applications available. LIkewise... tastes change. What was hot and "in vogue" today, may not even get a second glance two years from now.
4) Accounts: Accounts that have been inactive for 18 months are deleted (along with their archived images), to make room for newer and more active members of the community.