Ok, let me say the dreaded words, I'm thinking of buying a new camera! Wow, I bet you guys must get fed up with this!

Basically, I have moderate experience and am addicted already so will be learning constantly, I want an all roundish camera, especially for landscapes, animals (birds!) and random stuff...

I have a price range from £310.00 or in dollars, $606.00. and downwards, and that can be towards anything camerish!

Thanks for reading another of these threads, it's just i have no clue whatsoever about this...!

Morrison.

tough...a little more cash and you could buy a K100D kit. Later on, you could uprgrade you lenses and what not. When you want to buy a new body, just buy a new body and keep using the same lenses you already have. :-S

Otherwise, you're stuck with P&S type of cameras - which actually are pretty good (i just never follow along on them).

sadly you are a bit under budget for any DSLR really in the UK even the K100D so you are left with the option of waiting a bit longer to get some more cash together or going down the SLR style compact route - the best you could get in that field at that budget would be:

Canon PowerShot G7
Fuji FinePix S9600 or S6500fd
Olympus SP-550 UZ
Panasonic LUMIX DMC-FZ7
Sony Cyber-shot DSC-H9 or H7

You might be able to scrape in a Nikon D50 or Pentax K100D on thief bay for your budget but check the status of the seller and how much they are shipping for.

Try This

(*this message brought to you by the "let's see if he has a sense of humor" political action committee*)

Oh, the D50 is a good choice (it's what i use and in my mind it's better than an EOS 1D Mark II). The D40 is a little shakey (well, it isn't capable of using some lenses which is kindof scary).

*note how canon isn't on that list*

because they arent that crap? 'the D50 is a good choice (it's what i use and in my mind it's better than an EOS 1D Mark II' - there's a statement that speaks volumes :-)
where does this K100D weatherproof stuff come from? all the Pentax guff I read say the K10D is weather and dustproof but the K100D is just a regular cheapo plastic body? granted I may have missed it as I was struggling to stay concious after the first paragraph...


seriously though you're just a few steps short of the DSLR ladder with that budget but many of the SLR style compacts offer performance and functionality to match or better the cheaper DSLRs anyways - the Olympus in particular would be worth a look.

I dont know? Where did you get the idea that the K100D is weatherproof? Beats me.

from the one you forgot to edit:

'I'm a loyal Nikon dude....anyways....Have you looked into the Pentax's (K100D?) --> i think their weather resistant and also have that sensor cleaning. I believe it is in the same price range as the Rebel?'

:-)

shop around... here in nyc, the camera kit i bought (olympus E- 500 w/2 lenses..14-45 and 40-150) now sells for $629. i'd imagine there's bargains to be found elsewhere as well

a little revisionist postery

I did a quick search and found these cameras in your price range, they all have 5 megapixels or more and at least 10x optical zoom. These are good cameras for the intermediate photographer that is not ready to shell out the $$$ for a DSLR but wants more control and features then a compact point & shoot camera.
Kodak EasyShare Z650
Kodak EasyShare Z612
Kodak EasyShare Z710
Kodak EasyShare Z740
Kodak EasyShare P850
Kodak EasyShare Z7590
Olympus SP-510
Panasonic Lumix DMC-FZ7K
Fuji FinePix S5200
Panasonic Lumix DMC-FZ7S
Canon PowerShot S2 IS
Olympus SP-500 UZ
Panasonic Lumix DMC-FZ5
Fuji FinePix S6000FD

Ouch, forgot to edit the post on the other thread. *squints eyes* -.- I hate you.

Rob - there's no Evolts even close to budget in rip off britain - your kit costs about $1100 here - it's compact city i'm afraid :-)

you could order it from adorama in New york who would ship it to the UK within your budget - UK customs might get their hands on it though and suddenly send you way over budget :-)

if you're going to go the NYC route, order from B&H..they're usually cheaper,and even when they aren't their rep is sparkling..

B&H and adorama = quality..and be careful if you order online, lots of scam sites out there (i'll not get started on my/our stupidity).

And, i can't believe i'm saying this...click. *whew* i said it.

Just don't mention you want the 5D...it will haunt you forever:-)

True...however this gives me nightmares.

Funny thing is, in like 10 years we'll look back on the 5D and think: "Lol! Under 20 megapixels for a top of the line camera!? Check out my Nikon D3000xf...55 megapixels, multi sensor CMOS VII chip and 32 frames per second with a 500 image buffer! I got it free with a 3 terabyte SDFR chip at Costco."

"Isn't it funny how Canon went out of business 3 years after the 5D was taken off the market?"

have you been eating cheese before bedtime again?

...that was last night [cheese; i don't drink] - my judgment is as bad as it is. ;-) We're sort of moving off topic...so, i'm going to bump it back in place...here's my vote:

4) K100d
3) D50
1) D40 - upon reconsideration, it's not that bad. The only drawback is that it doesnt have an internal motor, but there are loads of lenses out there that work with the D40. It's cheap!
2) EOS 350d aka the Rebel XTi(?)

and they are still out of budget :-)

The D40 isn't. Comes with an 18-55mm lens (possibly the most useful lens for city and landscape shooting...something P&S cameras usually can't do (wide angle).

This has been a very entertaining post so far. :-)

You will have international shipping & customs duty to pay, both of which will send it way over budget.

unless you have an "uncle" in the States, who will re-package it and claim it's "personal, valueless junk"...but not like i'm suggesting anything ;-)

So, i can probably afford a D40 or 50, are they kind of the "best" for that amount then? Also, the D50 is better right?

Thanks for all the advice guys!

to be honest - and im sure Noah will shoot me down in flames here - a top end slr style compact will probably out perform a bottom of the range model like a D50/40 in just about every respect.

the longer you wait, the more money you will have, and the cheaper current kit will be

pick a savings plan .. pick a date .. .... pounce!!!

indeed.

I will agree with your previous post...however, them 'other cameras' dont have all that fun stuff you can buy...and settings....plus you look like your serious if u have a dslr...

*digs teeth into a rib i'm eating...*

noah, just for "spits" and giggles, look at some of my older stuff. i shot with a fuji 4 MP point and shoot up until.. October, I believe. there's lots of photography in alot of P&S cams, provided they're wielded properly..chronologically, "zzzzzZZZZZZZzzzzzz" was myfirst DSLR image. everything prior to that was taken with the fuji

all the top end compact stuff feature the same settings options as consumer DLSR's these days - the only real issue used to be that they didn’t have as good sensors in them but that seams to be getting addressed too now. but yes, you do look cooler with the Real McCoy.

yes, your shots a gr8 (you asked for it1)...but...

...How could you live w/out an 18mm lens!? I can't imagin living w/out it...(personal opinion).

my biggest gripe with the fuji was a horrible case of bleeding reds. and by the way, that link took me to a blank page..thanks :|

yep its really all about the lenses these days - thats where the gap in the race widens.

interesting..the link worked for me. Seems like the widest "consumer camera" is 28mm. I'm not even sure if they have a bulb mode.

...when buying, don't let the megapixels bother you. Most cameras above 6mp start to become money wasted (the higher the magical #, the more noise, not to mention 10mp is *not* 2x the length and width...its more like 2x the area (which if you think about it is not that much larger).

Let me say one more thing b4 i leave for seattle...you'll have to pay for a bunch of things sooner or later:

1) Camera (duh)
2) If you buy a DSLR, you will find you'll want better lenses (faster, more zoomable, wider, etc etc).
3) Tripod
4) Filters: You'll need a UV filter (to protect that lens from scratches...it's cheaper to replace a filter than a whole lens). A polarizing filter will also come in handy sooner or later.
5) Flashes (maybe...i've done w/out one)
6) etc

the exception being 8MP models which are kind of like the tried and tested stalwarts of the business like the EOS 20/30D etc etc both of which routinely outperform 10MP+ newer models from both Nikon and Canon for image quality. I used a 10mp compact recently and the noise on the image was dreadful even with the Leica lens on the camera.

but 6 and 8 mp is not much of a difference...other than cash.

10 to 12MP isn’t much of a difference either in theory but the difference in quality in the real world is phenomenal.

...yeah...it's like uprgrading to a 40mm negative from a 35.

Ok, so i'll definatly go for a DSLR, so are D40/50 the best in that price range? Sorry i probably sound so stupid!

Also then I will be able to buy lenses, a tripod and filters soonish, without cashing out for an amazing £100000000000 DSLR am
nd then not being able to buy anything!

All of these cameras below are the bottom shelf of the ladder in the UK market and all priced within £20 of each other, and no, out of that batch the Nikon’s aren’t the best. If you are serious about buying one then you should check out somewhere like dpreview.com for reviews or for a more impartial view try the Amateur Photographer magazine.


Nikon D40 Black plus AF-S DX 18-55mm f/3.5-5.6G ED II £380

Nikon D50 Black plus AF-S DX 18-55mm f/3.5-5.6G IF-ED £389

Canon EOS-350D plus EF-S 18-55mm f/3.5-5.6 £399

Olympus E-1 plus 14-45mm lens £399

Pentax K100D plus smc DA 18-55mm £398

Samsung GX-1L plus 18-55mm lens plus 50-200mm lens £399

All of these prices are from Warehouse Express who are about the best online retailer in the UK. You will get these cheaper elsewhere like the states but if you go the mail order route prepare to be stung with a big bill by the UK Customs & Excise before they will hand over your camera. Your best bet would be to wait until a friend or relative goes on holiday there and get them to bring you one back in their hand luggage.

i don't know for sure anymore, but the nikon d70s has recently been discontinued and there may be a chance there is still a few of them kicking around possibly as clearance stock that might come in pretty cheap and might also be in your price range. I would give it a look if it is possible to get your hand on one of them still. I personally say it is better than all of the models phil listed, but that of course is open to interpretation, and im likely biased since that is what i have.

No - you are completely correct Milo - there are indeed D70s still kicking around however the cheapest I can find in the UK is around £399 but as a body only - a bit of shopping around may turn up one with a lens kit for the same price.

I'm about to buy a new camera (so long as I get good news about my annual bonus next week!), but my budget is also limited like Morrison's.

I've currently got an A620 that I'm starting to feel limited by and I've not owned an SLR since 1994 - GO FILM! I've had a good look around at the "big compact" sub-SLR things and not been impressed. There are some very nice cameras with great features, but I want something flexible that will grow with my photography and budget.

Having decided that it's the right time to buy into an SLR system I've settled on Nikon's D40. Make no mistake, buying an SLR is just the starting point, I know there'll be more money down the line and so should you if you do the same. That being said, here's how I see the D40...

pros:
Nikon build quality. My last SLR was a Nikon so I guess I have some residual brand loyalty.

6mp is just fine. Image quality is technically the same as the D70s and the D40 has the same imaging engine as the D80/200.

Very nice images even at ISO 1600! My A620 is noisy at 400 so this rocks.

Beautiful, sexy 2.5" LCD on the back just like the D80. A thing of true gorgeousness.

Auto ISO mode will boost the ISO if the shutter speed would fall below a limit you set. Nice.

Small, lightweight, fast. Just what I need with a young family.

Price. Shop around online and you can pick it up for £350 with kit 18-55m lens. That's insane for a Nikon quality camera. 99% of reviews I've read conclude that they've made it so cheap by tossing out stuff you probably won't need, not by sacrificing quality.

Uncluttered viewfinder. Honestly, some people will list only having 3 AF spots as a disadvantage. Sure the D80's got 11 of them, but have you looked through it? I hate how the view's cluttered up with those things.

My son's getting interested in photography. He's 8 and he's loving my Minolta Dimage S304. When I pick up another body in a couple of years time the D40 will be perfect if he wants to start having a go with SLR photography. It's got all the help he could need on board and it's cheap enough to take some knocks without me having a heart attack. Probably.

Shoots RAW. If you want. I might play with some HDR stuff with this, but I'll probably go with jpeg for the most part.

Fully compatible with Nikon's big flashes (SB600/800) and the new compact SB400.

Cons:
Only works fully with lenses that have the motors built in (AF-S) but will work on manual with SOME older lenses. I don't have any lenses already so this isn't such a big deal for me. There are some very nice lenses that won't work with this camera, but there are plenty that will. The Sigma 10-20mm, Nikon 18-200mm VR and 70-300mm VR will all play nicely with the D40. By the time I can really afford to splash money on lenses I'll also be able to afford a second body.

Err. Struggling now. Different battery type than the rest of the Nikon range. Will last about 400 shots and charges in two hours though.

Umm. "Serious" photographers will sneer at you for having a baby SLR while they fiddle with their AF points. Go show them that it's who's behind the camera that counts.

Comes in silver. Don't buy this. Unless you're retired and you live in a gated colony in Fort Lauderdale and want to take pictures of your golfing buddies. Just don't.

It can't remote command the SB600 or 800 like the D70 and above can. The SB400 tilts for bounce, but doesn't swivel, although that's hardly the D40's fault.

So that's it. The D40 is a lot of camera for not a lot of money. Hopefully I'll get to pick mine up next week and have some shots for you all soon.

dont be fooled into thinking the D40 being just a small version of its big brothers - its had lots of things removed to make it cheaper functionality wise from what I understand and is based on the previous generation of cameras not the current model line..

As Milo pointed out - you would be better picking up a new D70s for the same price.

It's had some things removed for sure. No bracketing stings for HDR a little. No depth of field preview either, but I'm used to that on compacts and really, this isn't film. Take the shot and have a look on that huge LCD screen on the back :D. There aren't any "rule of thirds" gridlines that the D70 has. Hmm. I think you also lose a couple of metering modes, but I'll bet my bottom dollar that most Nikon users use the excellent matrix metering 99% of the time anyway. You can't remote command the big flashes from the D40 without an addon commander.

I've read around a lot over the last few weeks and not seen one compelling feature that would lead me to ditch the D40 for a used D70s.

Of course that's not going to be true for everyone. My needs are to take high quality photos of my family. I need good image quality, a responsive camera and the ability to mount a quality flash for bounce. When I have time I want to be able to throw it in my work bag and tool around town taking some pictures. The D40 fits this bill perfectly.

Naturally this is only my interpretation of what I've read about the camera over the last couple of weeks and I reserve the right to be dead wrong. My advice would be to take a look at what the D40 doesn't do and have a serious think about how often you'd need those things. Is it worth spending another £400 on a D80? It isn't for me, it might be for you. Personally I'd rather bank the difference and spend it on an 18-200 VR one day :)

No I was saying you can still buy new D70S cameras not used for the same as a D40 which is a far more compelling argument.

After much reaserch I bought the D50 plus the SB600 flash unit. I almost bought the D40, i realize now it would've been a mistake. Even though it is a very nice camera and with a lot of good features, still is a "stripped down camera". The best way to describe it is like the salesman at Ritz Camera put it "it's a great camera for people to go from point a shoot to DLSR" You are very limited to the amount of lenses compatible with the D40. Yes, it's true, the D50 does not have the wireless capability with the flash units but, in my case, it's not a feature that i'm looking at right now. And the price is good since Nikon is not making the D50 anymore and it has a lot of features similar to the D70.

*edit* Seems like the D50 is still going strong. I guess there was a time when Nikon wasn't able to produce them as fast as ppl were buying them (must mean something [they're good]).

keeping up the supply for them to be given away in boxes of Cheerios must keep them busy for sure.

Phil, I see what you're saying. I've found some D70s kits with the 18-70 for around £500 new. I'm going to think very carefully about picking one up. As Ken Rockwell says, the poor man pays twice! Thanks for your help.

try warehouse express online - they seam to have plenty of the bodies available.

Ok, just found out, there is a Nikon D40X coming out, just the same camera, but with an upgrade to 10.6 megapixels...

yes - read the thread about it next to this one :-)

Just a note, the 18-70 that was the kit on the d70 has had very good reviews for its price. I would take it over the kit lens of the d40 and d50 any day. (even though i don't use it much anymore due to the other lenses i have now, but that is beside the point)

I think i would also find that i would miss my two command dials, some easy access buttons, and most of all my top lcd. I would also miss not having the commander mode. If i were to be talking to you before i bought my camera i would have said that it wasn't a big deal. I probably wouldn't even ever buy an external flash, but i would definitly be eating those words now. I wish my camera had the commander that the d80 and the d200 has, but im happy i can at least do a little off camera stuff. Be careful not to overlook that. I personally feel now that the CLS (creative lighting System) is one of the stronger reasons that you would buy a nikon system. One of the reasons you buy an slr over a compact is so that you can grow without having to buy a completely new camera.

Also i have never actually got my hands on one (the guy at the store when i was thinking about trying it was busy) the d40 looks like it would not be as nice in the hand as the d70. It is soo tiny. Id almost go with a compact before i went with a d40. It seems to me that it is out there to appeal to those who don't really need a slr but have heard that they are the best and want to have one.

Again these are all my opinions and open for disagreement.

The Pentax K-10 is waterproof an has shake reduction,But there is alot to using it. I have one an truly love it, its bigger like the old 35mms an heaver