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Discussion Board -> Request for Comment -> Disillusioned
Disillusioned
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Eve, it seems a bit on the dark side, but not necessarily in a bad way. Perhaps if you scan the flower gallery in the perms,you might find some clues. are there already a few shots of these same flowers? or, of similarly composed shots, are there any strong differences between yours and theirs? hope that helped.
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Hi,my name is Rob..ok, so I'm not the greatest at replies and comments. Sorry. For anyone needing to contact me, my email is back up in my profile. >> my cluttered mess of a gallery
Thanks Rob
When I do a search for gazanias I see only 7 and 5 of them are my own(1 is permed) so there are not many I can compare it with. The only differences I can see in comparing it to my own ones is that this one looks better.
I can not scan the flower gallery in the perms as there is nothing showing - I have not been able to see it all day. I am puzzled by that. ??
There probably are more shots of the same flowers. I would imagine nowhere near as many as roses and sunflowers though :)
When I do a search for gazanias I see only 7 and 5 of them are my own(1 is permed) so there are not many I can compare it with. The only differences I can see in comparing it to my own ones is that this one looks better.
I can not scan the flower gallery in the perms as there is nothing showing - I have not been able to see it all day. I am puzzled by that. ??
There probably are more shots of the same flowers. I would imagine nowhere near as many as roses and sunflowers though :)
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The question is not what you look at, but what you see ~ Marcel Proust
The whole perm gallery, not archived things kinda different, I don't think it's based on the c-index more so the value and / or difference of the image. I assume, which I shouldn't do, you're talking about your image not being placed in the perms gallery (permanant). I have permed images that have c-index ratings of 41, 44, 48, 51 up through 89 in relation to c-index anyway. So it can't really be based on c-index alone.
8~D
Just keep rockin' babe!! Actually, the capture you pointed out is one of my favorites of yours!!
8~D
Just keep rockin' babe!! Actually, the capture you pointed out is one of my favorites of yours!!
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It should be in there.. its beautifully presented, the colours are gorgeous.. the clarity and composition is good.. its a lovely shot..
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MY GALLERY
........... "Live one day at a time and make it a masterpiece"
randy is correct - the c-index should play little or no part in the decision to include an image in the perms. whilst your image is technically very good indeed it doesn’t represent any significant difference in composition or presentation to any other image in the flower gallery. singling out a particular species of flower either doesn’t really improve this - ultimately you're pandering to a saturated market for want of a better term so you have to come up with something out of the ordinary to make a difference. promotion and rejection from the perms is not an instant and automated process so comparing to images already in the perms is not necessarily appropriate either. I uploaded a whole series of flower shots last summer and they all got archived but it was a first for me in that genre so what do I know :-)
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A smart bomb is only as clever as the idiot that tells it what to do
Thanks Phil
I do my best to make my shots out of the ordinary - often they are miserable failures so its back to the drawing board. I have tried framing, not framing, against a sky, montages, single flowers, massed flowers, manipulated flowers etc etc ad infinitim. Any ideas for different approaches would be gratefully received. After uploading 140 floral pictures, not including those I have deleted, I am running out of ideas. Other than providing a string quartet and expecting them to dance I am at a loss.
I do not understand how comparing new images to those already in the perms is not appropriate and I wonder what they are actually compared with - this seems a contradiction to the oversaturated theory.
Another picture of mine "Bright Eyes" is almost identical in composition and presentation to Orange Gazania so I can not understand why it was considered to have "a significant difference in composition or presentation to any other image in the flower gallery" and made it into the perms, when you say Orange Gazania is lacking in that area.
Moan over :) I am off to prepare a Gazania stew for dinner.
Oops, sorry, a chicken stew. :) :)
I do my best to make my shots out of the ordinary - often they are miserable failures so its back to the drawing board. I have tried framing, not framing, against a sky, montages, single flowers, massed flowers, manipulated flowers etc etc ad infinitim. Any ideas for different approaches would be gratefully received. After uploading 140 floral pictures, not including those I have deleted, I am running out of ideas. Other than providing a string quartet and expecting them to dance I am at a loss.
I do not understand how comparing new images to those already in the perms is not appropriate and I wonder what they are actually compared with - this seems a contradiction to the oversaturated theory.
Another picture of mine "Bright Eyes" is almost identical in composition and presentation to Orange Gazania so I can not understand why it was considered to have "a significant difference in composition or presentation to any other image in the flower gallery" and made it into the perms, when you say Orange Gazania is lacking in that area.
Moan over :) I am off to prepare a Gazania stew for dinner.
Oops, sorry, a chicken stew. :) :)
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The question is not what you look at, but what you see ~ Marcel Proust
sorry - I meant by the comparison being not appropriate - in that it would not be feasible to compare every new upload to every image in the perms that are there already :-)
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A smart bomb is only as clever as the idiot that tells it what to do
Actually, Eve, you should photograph Hobbits and Elves .. they are found in the NZ .. or so I've read somewhere
the first five shots would be shoe-ins .. then you'd have to try to mix things up a bit
the first five shots would be shoe-ins .. then you'd have to try to mix things up a bit
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*---===>>>>>(¯`·._(¯`·._.: :o) <---- OBLIGATORY SMILEY :._.·´¯)_.·´¯)<<<<<===---*
Well Lyn, for what it is worth, as I'm not a photgrapher. When I compare Bright Eyes and Orange Gazania, there are two things that stand out that stem from a basic precept about flowers. They are natures perfect living structure of life, and based on that, they have a powerful ability to set a mood.
Bright Eyes: The blooms are full, complete with the dapling of water on the petals, expressing life in it richness. The water itself, expresses a strong tie to the power of the living. Overall, the image has a great "feel good" feeling to it.
Orange Gazania: When I opened this image in full size, my eye was immediately caught by a flowers week point, which also can convey a strong emotional reaction, a flaw (whether percieved or really there). The flower on the left, the curled petal drew my attention to it right away. Suddenly the flower isn't perfect anymore. It isn't percieved to be as full of life as the previous image.
Technically, both images are superb, so please, don't get me wrong. But, if I had to choose between the two, I'd go for "Bright Eyes". Beyond the technical aspect, it's the emotional one that draws me to it.
I use to work in the baking/catering buisness for close to 18 years, including cake decorating for weddings using live flowers. So, from personal experience, its all about presentation. It doesn't take much to mar the percieved perfection that flowers can represent.
I hope that helps shed some light as to what the mod may have been thinking when doing the perm admissions for the day.
Ok, I think I'm done babbling on here... you can get get out of my body now Les. I've channeled you enough already. :oP
Bright Eyes: The blooms are full, complete with the dapling of water on the petals, expressing life in it richness. The water itself, expresses a strong tie to the power of the living. Overall, the image has a great "feel good" feeling to it.
Orange Gazania: When I opened this image in full size, my eye was immediately caught by a flowers week point, which also can convey a strong emotional reaction, a flaw (whether percieved or really there). The flower on the left, the curled petal drew my attention to it right away. Suddenly the flower isn't perfect anymore. It isn't percieved to be as full of life as the previous image.
Technically, both images are superb, so please, don't get me wrong. But, if I had to choose between the two, I'd go for "Bright Eyes". Beyond the technical aspect, it's the emotional one that draws me to it.
I use to work in the baking/catering buisness for close to 18 years, including cake decorating for weddings using live flowers. So, from personal experience, its all about presentation. It doesn't take much to mar the percieved perfection that flowers can represent.
I hope that helps shed some light as to what the mod may have been thinking when doing the perm admissions for the day.
Ok, I think I'm done babbling on here... you can get get out of my body now Les. I've channeled you enough already. :oP
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I always try to balance the light with the heavy - a few tears of human spirit in with the sequins and the fringes ~
Bette Midler
~ :o)
"Actually, Eve, you should photograph Hobbits and Elves .. they are found in the NZ .. or so I've read somewhere"
Shhh Keith......... I did not want it generally known that I am actually one myself :) But I am not revealing whether an Elf or a Hobbit.
Thanks Curt, I see what you mean.
The difference of course in the 2 pictures is that Bright Eyes was part of a professional display in a Cathedral for a national Flower Festival,using commmercially grown flowers freshly sprayed from a squeezy water bottle, lighting almost perfect, and no expense spared.
The Gazanias are growing wild by the creek with the sun as lighting.
The first ones were the worlds pampered and nurtured examples and the second a slice of real life,a bit battered by experience, warts and all. Just like people I guess, and it is of course the beautiful ones that most wish to look at.
Lesson learned and understood :)
I should attend more festivals :)
I guess the question in my mind originally was whether the c-index should be used as a personal guide as it is easy to get an inflated sense of an image's worth when it receives a high score.
:)
Shhh Keith......... I did not want it generally known that I am actually one myself :) But I am not revealing whether an Elf or a Hobbit.
Thanks Curt, I see what you mean.
The difference of course in the 2 pictures is that Bright Eyes was part of a professional display in a Cathedral for a national Flower Festival,using commmercially grown flowers freshly sprayed from a squeezy water bottle, lighting almost perfect, and no expense spared.
The Gazanias are growing wild by the creek with the sun as lighting.
The first ones were the worlds pampered and nurtured examples and the second a slice of real life,a bit battered by experience, warts and all. Just like people I guess, and it is of course the beautiful ones that most wish to look at.
Lesson learned and understood :)
I should attend more festivals :)
I guess the question in my mind originally was whether the c-index should be used as a personal guide as it is easy to get an inflated sense of an image's worth when it receives a high score.
:)
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The question is not what you look at, but what you see ~ Marcel Proust
"...and it is of course the beautiful ones that most wish to look at."
Unfortunately, that seems so true in todays age. Don't let it disuade you though. VB-wise, they both would have gotten the same vote. But where the perms be concerned, that 10th of a point is what can make or break ya.
"I guess the question in my mind originally was whether the c-index should be used as a personal guide as it is easy to get an inflated sense of an image's worth when it receives a high score."
Hence one of the pit falls of having a voting system. So going by Phil's comment above, "the c-index should play little or no part in the decision to include an image in the perms" (which was also good to hear and needed to be said), you should just take the c-index for what it's worth. The people who had the privelage to vote on it, enjoyed it, and that it was worth its well deserved score.
Unfortunately, that seems so true in todays age. Don't let it disuade you though. VB-wise, they both would have gotten the same vote. But where the perms be concerned, that 10th of a point is what can make or break ya.
"I guess the question in my mind originally was whether the c-index should be used as a personal guide as it is easy to get an inflated sense of an image's worth when it receives a high score."
Hence one of the pit falls of having a voting system. So going by Phil's comment above, "the c-index should play little or no part in the decision to include an image in the perms" (which was also good to hear and needed to be said), you should just take the c-index for what it's worth. The people who had the privelage to vote on it, enjoyed it, and that it was worth its well deserved score.
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I always try to balance the light with the heavy - a few tears of human spirit in with the sequins and the fringes ~
Bette Midler
~ :o)
Quote .. as it is easy to get an inflated sense of an image's worth when it receives a high score.
or .. conversely .. dashed upon the rocks of high expectations during a low tide with unusually harsh winds and a broken oar ... and a crease in your hat that funnels the rain water straight down your neck ... and you notice that your bagged lunch is getting wet ... and you've managed to get sand in your knickers ... and your dog is trying to jump to safety even though she is afraid of the ocean surf ..
wha? .. huh? ... did I say that outloud?
or .. conversely .. dashed upon the rocks of high expectations during a low tide with unusually harsh winds and a broken oar ... and a crease in your hat that funnels the rain water straight down your neck ... and you notice that your bagged lunch is getting wet ... and you've managed to get sand in your knickers ... and your dog is trying to jump to safety even though she is afraid of the ocean surf ..
wha? .. huh? ... did I say that outloud?
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*---===>>>>>(¯`·._(¯`·._.: :o) <---- OBLIGATORY SMILEY :._.·´¯)_.·´¯)<<<<<===---*
Yup you did... reflecting on personal experience are ya? :oP
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I always try to balance the light with the heavy - a few tears of human spirit in with the sequins and the fringes ~
Bette Midler
~ :o)
I swim quite well and a little bit of sand never hurt anyone, but I am concerned about the dog . . . . and my lunch . . .and my camera!
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The question is not what you look at, but what you see ~ Marcel Proust
Oh dear, what a shame! The moderator/friend of yours must have been having a bad day to archive your great pic. Maybe it's just because there are so many similar pics that it wasn't included in the permanent galleries?
Still, you have a c-index of 88 and you say YOU are disillusioned? And you have dozens and dozens of good comments and yet you're still disillusioned?
DISILLUSIONED to me is not getting more than about 4 comments on average. And I'd be over the moon to get a c-index anywhere near that high. I don't think you know what 'disillusioned' is.
I, and probably many other creative artists on Caedes, know that disillusioned means not being in the clique! One of the more popular Caedes members once told me that I need to 'grease the right palms' to get noticed. Well I'm sorry, but I don't 'grease palms' or lick ass! I just do what I do and hope for the best. I only leave comments on images that are really eye catching, unique, creative or out-and-out brilliant. Maybe others do the same and I don't produce work that fits those criteria.
Now, I know saying this isn't going to make me Mr Popular, it might even get me booted off the site. But some people seem to get good votes and great comments, no matter how poor their images are. I'd love to be able name names and give a specific image, but I have nothing against the member I'm thinking of as one example. And there are numerous others.
I don't have anything against any of the 'clique members', it just seems that if you are not one of the 'in-crowd' you pretty much don't get far on here.
Maybe my images aren't that great and therefore I don't deserve good votes or comments?!
And I'm sure I'm not going to get good ones now. But this is the way I feel about 'the way things work' on Caedes, and it's been boiling up inside me for some time.
Oh well, that's that off my chest. I guess I'd better wait for the slagging-off to start.
P.S.
I thought this was a WALLPAPER SITE? Why is it so many people post images that could be of very little interest, to anyone, as a wallpaper?
Still, you have a c-index of 88 and you say YOU are disillusioned? And you have dozens and dozens of good comments and yet you're still disillusioned?
DISILLUSIONED to me is not getting more than about 4 comments on average. And I'd be over the moon to get a c-index anywhere near that high. I don't think you know what 'disillusioned' is.
I, and probably many other creative artists on Caedes, know that disillusioned means not being in the clique! One of the more popular Caedes members once told me that I need to 'grease the right palms' to get noticed. Well I'm sorry, but I don't 'grease palms' or lick ass! I just do what I do and hope for the best. I only leave comments on images that are really eye catching, unique, creative or out-and-out brilliant. Maybe others do the same and I don't produce work that fits those criteria.
Now, I know saying this isn't going to make me Mr Popular, it might even get me booted off the site. But some people seem to get good votes and great comments, no matter how poor their images are. I'd love to be able name names and give a specific image, but I have nothing against the member I'm thinking of as one example. And there are numerous others.
I don't have anything against any of the 'clique members', it just seems that if you are not one of the 'in-crowd' you pretty much don't get far on here.
Maybe my images aren't that great and therefore I don't deserve good votes or comments?!
And I'm sure I'm not going to get good ones now. But this is the way I feel about 'the way things work' on Caedes, and it's been boiling up inside me for some time.
Oh well, that's that off my chest. I guess I'd better wait for the slagging-off to start.
P.S.
I thought this was a WALLPAPER SITE? Why is it so many people post images that could be of very little interest, to anyone, as a wallpaper?
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Paul - the site is kind of diversifying a bit expanding on the wallpaper base and moving into a wider artistic field too - however the point you made still applies if the content of your image doesn’t fit into either of those categories, i.e. a personal images/snapshots, then why upload it.
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A smart bomb is only as clever as the idiot that tells it what to do
Paul, 'disillusioned ' is relative, and I am well aware of its meaning.
I am not disillusioned with my picture, or the comments, or the c-index - the disillusionment at the time was due to it being archived. You seem to be suggesting that the number of comments I have is due to some sort of palm greasing - and if there is a clique, no one has invited me to join :)
My conscience is VERY clear that I give the score I consider appropriate, regardless of who the artist is.Voting is supposed to be annonymous, but as I have stated befoe certain artists become known by their style, and often their expertise.
I suggest you add a few more people to your friends list if you want more comments. The compliment is very often returned. Unlike some, I do not consider comments by friends to be worthless, in fact I find that they will be more likely to tell you what they consider are faults with an image and suggest ways of improvement, and therefore of great value.
In your own words . . .
"I only leave comments on images that are really eye catching, unique, creative or out-and-out brilliant."
Very nice, but hardly helpful for those of us who need to improve.
I must finish by saying I take offence at your opening statement "Oh dear, what a shame! The moderator/friend of yours must have been having a bad day to archive your great pic. "
Sarcasm is not a quality I admire, and I do not choose my friends according to their status, either here or in the real world.
I am not disillusioned with my picture, or the comments, or the c-index - the disillusionment at the time was due to it being archived. You seem to be suggesting that the number of comments I have is due to some sort of palm greasing - and if there is a clique, no one has invited me to join :)
My conscience is VERY clear that I give the score I consider appropriate, regardless of who the artist is.Voting is supposed to be annonymous, but as I have stated befoe certain artists become known by their style, and often their expertise.
I suggest you add a few more people to your friends list if you want more comments. The compliment is very often returned. Unlike some, I do not consider comments by friends to be worthless, in fact I find that they will be more likely to tell you what they consider are faults with an image and suggest ways of improvement, and therefore of great value.
In your own words . . .
"I only leave comments on images that are really eye catching, unique, creative or out-and-out brilliant."
Very nice, but hardly helpful for those of us who need to improve.
I must finish by saying I take offence at your opening statement "Oh dear, what a shame! The moderator/friend of yours must have been having a bad day to archive your great pic. "
Sarcasm is not a quality I admire, and I do not choose my friends according to their status, either here or in the real world.
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The question is not what you look at, but what you see ~ Marcel Proust
I have to agree with Paul although I wouldn't say the same in such drastic terms. It is a mystery to me how when someone "in the clique" as he says, posts an average (or below) photo there are immediately comments varying from normal praise to almost "swooning" comments from a dozen admirers. I don't believe that such comments correspond to the directions given by caedes on "how to comment on postings".
As regards the archiving, I had complained once a few months ago in this forum (you had also commented on it Lyn) and it is still a mystery to me why some old "perms" cannot be discarded and better, newer pictures taken in. Or is it like : "once I am in ther I'm in for good, buddy!" In my opinion, Lyn's "Orange Gazania" and one or two of mine :) belong there!
As regards the archiving, I had complained once a few months ago in this forum (you had also commented on it Lyn) and it is still a mystery to me why some old "perms" cannot be discarded and better, newer pictures taken in. Or is it like : "once I am in ther I'm in for good, buddy!" In my opinion, Lyn's "Orange Gazania" and one or two of mine :) belong there!
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All that glitters is not gold.
as has been said on god knows how many occasions - presumably all the same threads you refer to - images in the perms are removed and archived periodically to make way for newer and fresher images.
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A smart bomb is only as clever as the idiot that tells it what to do
I take exception to the suggestion that anybody who leaves lots of comments is "greasing palms" or applying to join some clique. If there is such a group, I want no part of it. If I thought for a second that commenting widely might result in my unwittingly joining, I would cease immediately. I hope this is not the case, as I do not want to stop commenting, but if it was, I would.
- cfr
- cfr
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You must avoid feeding the trolls ... they sprinkle their barbs and set their nets .. and wait for some hapless netizen to reply
Troll-Chow is the cheapest bag of peanuts being sold in the snack bar .. but motion the clerk over to the meatier nuggets meant for the "Clique-House Mammals"
more expensive? .. yes ... but tax deductable
Troll-Chow is the cheapest bag of peanuts being sold in the snack bar .. but motion the clerk over to the meatier nuggets meant for the "Clique-House Mammals"
more expensive? .. yes ... but tax deductable
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*---===>>>>>(¯`·._(¯`·._.: :o) <---- OBLIGATORY SMILEY :._.·´¯)_.·´¯)<<<<<===---*
And let us not forget… there are some people who object to the lauding of sub-par images rather than honest critique. They've said so, over and over again.
On the other side of that, there are people who in all honesty and out of the goodness of their hearts, comment on a friend's image, and pick out the things they like about the image to encourage them.
As far as "clique", i'd be offended by the greasing palms comment too. However, it is not really true. As you stick around, you start naturally to gather people who admire your work and make it a point to check on it and comment.
If any of that came out babbling and discombobulated, it's cuz I can't see past this leaky faucet that's replaced my nose.
On the other side of that, there are people who in all honesty and out of the goodness of their hearts, comment on a friend's image, and pick out the things they like about the image to encourage them.
As far as "clique", i'd be offended by the greasing palms comment too. However, it is not really true. As you stick around, you start naturally to gather people who admire your work and make it a point to check on it and comment.
If any of that came out babbling and discombobulated, it's cuz I can't see past this leaky faucet that's replaced my nose.
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One man sees things and says "why?" - but I dream things that never were and I say "why not?"
P.S.
Paul - The very reason this section of the DB exists is for members who are seeking more feedback to have a place to request such.
Paul - The very reason this section of the DB exists is for members who are seeking more feedback to have a place to request such.
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One man sees things and says "why?" - but I dream things that never were and I say "why not?"
Just to be clear, I do not take myself to be "lauding sub-par images" even when I leave a lot of comments.
- cfr
- cfr
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Not quite sure how you got from A to B there... the number of comments has nothing to do w/the content of same, nor was it implied.
Leaving comments and offering critique is encouraged, (yeah, so i'm slackin, lemme alone already) and is not the same as running through writing "AWESOME SHOT! I love this is! It's so pretty!" on an out of focus, badly framed and lit image.
Leaving comments and offering critique is encouraged, (yeah, so i'm slackin, lemme alone already) and is not the same as running through writing "AWESOME SHOT! I love this is! It's so pretty!" on an out of focus, badly framed and lit image.
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One man sees things and says "why?" - but I dream things that never were and I say "why not?"
There's a special clique ? Do you have to be invited or what ?
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I've got amnesia & deja vu at the same time. I think I've forgotten this before ! ......CLICK TO SAVE LIVES !
.......MY GALLERY
No you have to answer a 40 page questionaire write 2000 words on why you want to be in the clique.. lmao..
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MY GALLERY
........... "Live one day at a time and make it a masterpiece"
Sorry. I think I lost the thread of who was arguing for what, with whom, where the fracas was taking place and why nobody had put it out of its misery yet.
- cfr
- cfr
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or just cover yourself in treacle - that works too.
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A smart bomb is only as clever as the idiot that tells it what to do
Next time I'll ask the cat -
except I don't have one - it died.
Or perhaps I will try the treacle treatment.I feel as though I have already. :)
except I don't have one - it died.
Or perhaps I will try the treacle treatment.I feel as though I have already. :)
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The question is not what you look at, but what you see ~ Marcel Proust
treacle is good for your skin... makes all smooth and soft... lmao.. and no i haven't tried it.. i read it somewhere..
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MY GALLERY
........... "Live one day at a time and make it a masterpiece"
Ooo... treakle mining, imagine the pharmacutical buisness you could build. That, and treakle & peanut butter sandwiches. Mmm-mmm-good. :o)
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I always try to balance the light with the heavy - a few tears of human spirit in with the sequins and the fringes ~
Bette Midler
~ :o)
treacle down voodoo-nomics
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*---===>>>>>(¯`·._(¯`·._.: :o) <---- OBLIGATORY SMILEY :._.·´¯)_.·´¯)<<<<<===---*
To be a mod doesn't say that we are never mistaken...
LynEve: this is a very beautiful image and it deserves to be promoted in the perms. Thanks for sharing with us :-)
LynEve: this is a very beautiful image and it deserves to be promoted in the perms. Thanks for sharing with us :-)
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-Pierre-
This was not my expectation when I started this thread and have at times wished I never had, but of course I am delighted!! Thank you :) :)
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The question is not what you look at, but what you see ~ Marcel Proust
Although I rarely succeed I always strive for excellence with my floral pictures, and have in the past been slightly disappointed when high 70's and 80's have not made the grade. My own self evaluation has over time improved and I have set much higher standards for myself, using the c-index as a helpful guide.
With THIS one I thought I had got close, the comments were encouraging, and the c-index of 88 gave me great hopes for it. It is archived.
If anyone (perhaps even a mod?) can give me some feedback on why it has failed and joined my many other archived pictures then I will be very grateful. I do respect the decisions made, but would like to understand why in this particular case.
Yes, I am disappointed. I do not think I have the ability or talent to produce much better scores than this, my second highest of all my pictures, so perhaps flowers should be off my agenda. Or perhaps just disregard the c-index as an indication of quality?
Thanks to anyone who reads this.