Please note that the mods will be going through the permenant galleries and removing some of the older, lower rated and/or over represented images. If you notice some of your images have disappeared from your personal gallery this is probably why.

I am going to throw this out here:

What if you gave each user a certain number of pages to self-maintain? These pages could be based on membership, becoming a mod, amount of time as an active user, rewards for contest, etc. The images that mean the most to the user for whatever reason could stay and the mods would have far less work to do and deal with far less hurt feelings.

No matter what anyone did to self-maintain, images were still lost that weren't expected. In some cases, we may have lost even more than if we had just left our galleries alone.

After the c-index change I was happy in the 60-70 range. I realize my work is for those who prefer a simpler desktop (maybe a smaller audience, but still there judging from some PM's and messages I've received). I've tried hard to keep my work different from others yet improve as I go. That's what I thought this site was all about. A site for amateurs improving and encouraging eachother along through helpful suggestions.

Now, we've got professionals here who's work I admire, vote, and comment on right along with everyone else. If they receive high votes there is no way someone will turn around and give us those same votes. Most of us who view often, vote often, comment often, improve often, and make this site what it is, do not fall in that category.

The second thing I'm going to throw out here is a proposal for a Professional's gallery. Possibly sorted by author much like the author list, but with a brief description of their style under the thumbnail rather than to categorize their works which I'm assuming would be major work on top of an already overwhelming job for the mods.

I humbly admit to not giving any money to this site. For private reasons, I cannot and maybe I shouldn't be speaking up here. But, I do care about others. Far more than I care what happens to me and my images on here. I'm just a mom with time to be here as I recover from some things that enjoys the best of what is here, most importantly the people. Anyway, thanks to all for the good experiences I've had. Hang in there.

Agree totally that sunrise and flower gallery was not diversified enough and several shots came back at last, so 111 pictures weren't good enough for Caedes. I know that I had to many pictures in my gallery and also that a lot of them were worth to delete, so in future I hope that mods will delete quicker.

I'm nowhere near to the level of what could be considered professional, at best I'm an amateur. Caedes was really my inspiration to get into photography and I've gotton great tips, and encouragement on the site. To me the site is a place where you can come and share some of your best images (in your opinion) and get the feedback needed to improve.

As of late, there's been a lot of new members and some of them really are professionals, to which I can definitely not compare. I think bjb has a valid point with creating an area for professionals.

As for the Spring Clean, I haven't been effected (yet or not that I could notice). Now this is a touchy subject. I agree that sub standard images should be deleted, but as for "over represented" images my view differs. I think more variety isn't really a bad thing.

I think there is no true professionals, just a few 'semi' professionals like Photoimagery or maybe Yenom. A professional don't give free pictures on a website. Am I wrong?
Caedes.net is a nice website to learn the picture's art, to allow members to progress. This is not merely a picture's bank.

Caedes gave me the courage to post photos knowing very well I am only an amateur, there are far better photographers on the site and I find it a good idea to make a professional's gallery. I agree with BJB.

agree with BJ as well, there are definitly some professionals. I am not refering to professionals like photoimagery who are giving us their work for free, but professionals who are using caedes more to advertise their work than anything else. Ppigeon: for the best examples of this you have to look outside of photography!

As far as the cleaning and my joke earlier I still support the cleaning and at the same time feel for flower photographers like Joost or fractal art specialist etc. My statement about my wrath was a joke, I mourne the loss of my first ever submission to caedes, It was an image of Reservoir Park here at sunset. Not only was it a sunset but it was also a lake lol, there are many better of the same type. But its ok I'll just have to sneak it in under your noses later :p

What do you mean by 'to look outside of photography' ?

fractal art and 3d renders and such...

I dont want to point fingers but if you look at the highest rated fractal art or the highest rated 3d landscapes and things like that you will find quite a few pro's

I can keep photoimagery outside of this category because even though he holds most of the top spots in photography and is a professional, he does attempt to use caedes.net as an advertising medium. As in, giving a taste of his work and saying, for the real deal visit ...
Once again, just my 2 cent =D

seems as though one of the few I was referring to has completely dissapeared from existance on the site. What black magic is this!?!?!

I agree with Pierre.

Besides doing this would put some of the members apart from the others...
And what it would achieve exactly?
Just isolate them from the others... And vice versa

I admit that we were maybe a bit late in doing this cleaning but we couldn't wait any longer, it would have been worse otherwise.

Please understand that in doing this we do not try to upset or discourage people on the contrary. We want to encourage diversity, encourage people to being more selective in their work... It is a bad thing?

When I look at some pretty amazing art it makes me want to improve, it is always a good motivation... it also makes me think twice before uploading something which could be worked a little more...

When I look at some of my old stuff now I see the mistakes, the way for improvement... These pictures were nice at the time but they need to go now...

It is clear that I have some personal attachement to some of them... some brought a smile to my face and some makes me remember nice moments. But it is just for me... it's not a feeling others share... and why should they?

They see the general quality of the image, rate and comment on it, makes some suggestions...

that's all. and that all is needed...
That is what the site is all about in the fist place, the main purpose...
Appreciating other's works... whatever how long they will stay...

By professional I mean people who make money from getting exposure here. As Tony stated, one of these folks has completely disappeared from the site. Maybe there isn't as great of a need for it. I just thought it may help some others not to give up thinking that there's no way they can maintain that kind of standard.

I'm not sure how doing this would put us apart though. We can still do as always in our communications, just rate them seperate so others still feel they are welcome as amateurs.

My first suggestion has been completely overlooked and perhaps will remain that way, but I just thought it might be a fairer way to do things. All of us including the mods have completely different overall tastes. Just today there is an image on here that I would purchase if I could (I like it that much!) that another mod does not care for. What happens if that mod gets the deletion choice in the end? Should that artist feel their work not worthy and quit? I think not! Joost, I would hope you wouldn't either!! I guess the best any of us can do if we really like something is, save it to our HD immediately and keep on keepin' on as long as we love what we do. In the end not letting other's opinions shake what we believe in ourselves as long as we've remained open to grow the best we could respecting their opinions, taking them to heart towards change when we should, but letting them go when they are not constructive. Griping isn't going to do any of us any good. It's certainly going to hurt our art too! That's what we do. Put our hearts and feelings into it. That's why we hurt sometimes too. I've been sad before too and nothing helps me like getting back to the new images, voting, commenting, and focussing on the progress everyone is making. I apologize if my posts added to the problem. That certainly was not my intention.

hmm sorry bj i missed your suggestion early. this has merit. if every user was given say 4 pages (assuming 36 a page), cadre members maybe 5 and maybe an extra page or so for contest winners. This could encourage people to fill their user galleries responsibly. They would simply have to delete or rearrange photos if they reach their page limit. but alas, more programming, and more ideas for the moderators to have to think about haha :-p

haveing a limit to gallery size would also make the author list a more acurate representation of quality, rather than sometimes quantity, even with (sum of c-index cubed). the only problem would be for people like photoimagery who i'm sure has more than 4x36 quality images that people would appreciate seeing.

well the higher members are usually in the cadre and also have an honor or two, easily extending them to 6 or 7 pages

Obviously too, those who abuse this privilege of self-maintaining would certainly be open to whatever the mods could and should do to them! There are very few users now who have 4 pages full. Starting with even less could be acceptable too I would think.

It might sound corny but maybe some people need to start focussing on the positive rather than the negative. Rather than looking at how many images you have had deleted, focus on the fact that those that remain have the approval of all the mods and therefore meet a very high standard. Surely you can accept with the very high number of images that some members upload here, that not all of them can remain?

Once again I would remind you that caedes is a wallpaper site. Certaily it is a good place to learn, build friendships, and share personal images with friends, but this is not what the permenant galleries are for. BJ, your idea about having a proffesional gallery is in a way already implemented; the permenant galleries are for professional standard images, while the new images gallery is for everybody. Images remain in this gallery for a substantial amount of time. The fact is that in the past some of the mods have simply been too generous with what has been moved to the permenant galleries, myself included. This process is going to change now, and the permenant galleries are being adjusted to reflect this change.

I want caedes to be a site where -every- image displayed in the permenant galleries is of outstanding quality; where anyone who has even -one- image displayed there can be proud. Isn't this a worthy goal? I wouldn't have spent the last 5 days working my butt off if I didn't think so.

Just as a side note, the mods have removed about 20 of my images, so don't feel like you are being targeted unfairly. =)

I was just coming here to say to Joost that he is still number 5 out of 1120 authors and saw your post Sam. That's a pretty GREAT achievment in my book. I'm sure like all the other changes that have had to take place recently that soon people will see it working as a good thing. It definately wasn't the time for me to throw out any more suggestions nor did I want to take it in any negative direction at all and if I have done that, then I do most sincerely apologize. Many who felt bad or did not understand did not speak up. Some get over things quicker than others and we need to allow for that. I certainly hope that we all can without allowing this to become a person against person thing.

considering that caedes is growing to be one of the largest or at least more popular wallpaper sites on the internet, I'd say its important to keep an impressive permanent gallery. but then again i've already said I support the cleanup.
ummm, several times now
k i'll hush :-x

Being one of the oldest regular members of the site I can attest to the fact that in the beginning it was a much different and more special thing having your image become "permanent ". I can remember the first time Caedes asked if he could put one of my images into the permanent gallery. I was totally excited and honored all at the same time. As time went on though and more and more people started uploading and the c-index was introduced, us mods started using that as the standard. (If it was above 60 and wasn't horrible, it was basically upgraded). But the problem is that the c-index is only an indication and is anything but a 100% accurate scale of the quality of an image. That is why we are going through these galleries now and cleaning them up, because we have realized that a lot of sub-standard were in these permanent galleries.

So basically what is going on here is that Caedes.net is returning to its original vision. Nothing new or terrible is going on. Just fixing a mistake and cleaning up. Sorry for the inconvenience.

Well put.

I thought I was an old member...

your dragon icon is going to get grey hairs...

Having been watching this thread unfold, I have to admit that I am shocked by the ego & grandiosity of the artists themselves. Anyone can accept the fact that there is not a big enough server to run efficiently if everyone's images were kept forever, Then if they were, there would be another thread going about how slow the server is & why can't we have faster service,etc.
I agree completely with the comments regarding duplication of work. I enjoy seeing all the different things. My work is strictly nature & there are many who have never even looked at it because that is not their cup of tea. That is great by me. Those who do & enjoy it, are a bonus for me. I don't believe that all my images need to or should stay on the server.
I think it is time for all of us to take a minute to thank the mods for doing what we were not doing....cleaning our house!! We congratulate them when they become mods & then criticize them when they do their job...well, which is it? It can only be one way.
This house cleaning that is taking place is extensive & way overdue IMHO....it is not as if the mods are screening our images before they are posted & deciding that there are too many of this or too many of that. We are free to upload whatever according to the code.
We also need to keep in mind that Mr. Caedes posted a new code of conduct because there was some abuse going on. This was happening right here, on this site. Possibly with people we have chatted with or know better than some of the other artists. Being the professional that Mr. Caedes is, he stated that if the activity is stopped, there would be no percussions. He is way more generous that I would be. Someone who abuses the privilege of a free server, free posting, free votes & free access to improvement has not earned the right to stay on this site.....that is my thought only. I think the mods are doing one hell of a job & they are taking the heat like the ladies & gentleman that they are. I want to learn how to upload excellent quality photo's. My experience here has been so awesome, I wouldn't trade it for anything. There are many incredibly intelligent, knowledgeable & willing artists to share their knowledge with you on this site. I could not afford to pay the price it would cost me to learn everything I have in a school like this. My teachers are world-wide & I am proud to be in a world-wide University.
I am going to take this last paragraph to thank each & every image mod for the great job that you do, the questions you answer, the heat you take, the time you devote & your patience & tolerance. I also want to thank Mr. Caedes for his professional site that allows all I stated above. What a lucky person I am to have all of this at my fingertips. I hope that each artist will be able to reach down somewhere inside of themselves & find that happiness & peace that they have when they are taking photo's or making images. And after you do, please take a moment to write a quick thank you to the mods & let them do their work.....they are just as human as we are & do not deserve this lashing. We need to humble ourselves & start being a "part of "instead of "apart from" each other. Each day is a new beginning. This day will just be a bit cleaner than others! Thank you :))

good call, there are now 13 image mods responsible for handling the traffic flow of over 2200 regular members. quite the task, good job guys. also good job to caedes, the site is sleek, clean, professional looking and well integrated. looks like the work of a scientist or engineer heh

and I didnt forget xentrik!! good job to you too
and all the artists
and me
and and...

:-)

well said mimi
only thing i found funny was that one of the image mods had commented on one of my photos that they had thought it was a manipulation and i seen the comment late the next day and i was tired so didn't reply then and there next day it was gone so i thought ah ok not replying to that then lol

Pat

I did my own house cleaning, so my gallery is reduced to 79 images (i deleted 79 pictures),I hope it is a help for the mods.

Mimi, I couldn't agree with you more. Well put. :) The mods are doing a great job. Thank you all, and special thanks naturally goes to caedes too for this wonderful site you keep.

I've been a contributing member of Caedes for just over a month and I just want to say that I truly appreciate this website. While I can understand that some people may feel hurt or dissapointed that images are being deleted, I fully agree with Mimi's point of view. I can understand that it is an impossibility to keep all images that are uploaded. That said, I think that B.J.'s suggestion of distributing a certain number of pages to each member is one that is worthy of consideration. Maybe this could be something completely seperate from the the site's permanent galleries. Regardless, I do not think that the goal in this "Spring Cleaning" is to devalue anyone's work. I think as long as the image mods continue to do their job with maturity and respect that the site will be all the better for it.

For Your info: Even the ImageMods' and Mr. Caedes' images are being "reviewed" and we are feeling it as much as any member.
Only the contest galleries are being totally left alone.

My images arent dirty and do not need to be cleaned. So if you left them alone, I would be fine. Thanks

"Country Road" looks a little dirty, I think that one might have to go... =P

;-)

Agree totally with Mimi's leviathan post! I back the mods to the hilt on this one. As I have said in this and other discussion threads (until people are probably sick of hearing my views!) this was long overdue and I welcome it with open arms. Some of my images have gone and I have deleted some myself. This is a good thing, as it raises the bar for quality and showcases the better images.

Long live Caedes.net!

beowulf you are right, this entire state is dirty! on second thought, just chunk the whole gallery O_o

Roger. Will do... ;-)

!

When the new site design comes in we could maybe just delete all the images!
;-)

mm, i'm not one to complain about deleted images (I just deleted 15 more). but I would like to make a personal request. 2 of the roses in my weekly roses series are in review. these are important to me.

just a request.

Friday and wednesday... The cleaning was done also for these too repetitive photos.
Caedes closed the 'cleaning' gallery. Maybe some pictures will have a second chance. Wait & see.

no problem, I will just change the names, and it will look less silly

I think it would be really interesting to start with a clean slate per Matthew's suggestion when we switch to the new site design. Although I'm sure there would be many outcries if this were to happen :D

Noob: Any images that are "rescued" will be based on the qualities of the image itself, rather than any personal reasons...

its no biggie, someone said something early about nuts being cracked. or maybe eggs.. either way those 2 images are just food products.

or something??

in all seriousness. I ask the mods to show some empathy, or at least sympathy, for those users who my send pms or comment in discussions pleading for an image that has special meaning to them. Several of them have come to me through PMs. I understand that your job is tough, and you are trying to be fair based on image quality and etc. but some things are too important for people to let go. I am not reffering to myself in this case, I have said b4 that I am now just uploading to caedes to share what images I can with others. My photography is personal. But I think that in the thousands of images that you have removed (or are in the process of moving or whatever) it wouldnt hurt the server to spare the rare few instances where someone asks about an image they have a personal attachtment to. Or has given to someone else who has a personal attachtment to it

Rebecca - I was just joking about deleting everything!

Anthony: I see what you are saying, but it is difficult. I think many if not all of the artists invest something personally in the images they create. Nothing would get deleted at all if the mods had to consider peoples' attachment to a certain image. Maybe in rare cases they could consider it, but it would set a worrying precedent. After all, the artist will still have that image at home - it's not gone, it's just not on Caedes.net anymore.

BTW: I believe it was me that mentioned having to break eggs to make an omelette! ;-)

i dont think they should consider everyones personal galleries. But I doubt they get enough pms about particular images for it do make much of a dent in the few thousand that are gone.

Matthew - And here I was getting ready with my big mop and broom...*sigh* ;)

And like Matthew said as well..These images aren't gone forever. Any images created by the artist are still (or should be if they are precious) in their possesion at home. But could you imagine if word got out that the mods were saving your image if you PM them and plead it's case? I'm sure they would be bombarded by PM's.

Think of the Spring Cleaning like pulling off a big band aid..It hurts really bad, but only for a little bit and then it's like it never happened ;) Of course until you have to put another band aid on...lol

i doubt they would be bombarded with PMs
and even if they were and say 20 people Pmed the mods

20 out of +2000 doesnt seem like much of a sacrifice

I completely agree with the last words of Noobguy. But how can Mods judge thousands of images within a few days.??? The speedy Gonzalez way.

Sorry, I forget to mention that I know what a hudge job you had ,and have no doubt about the mods ' competence. But I think that because of the quickness of the job a lot was deleted by mistake.

Just to clarify something, about 3000 images were moved into a "cleaning gallery", which is being sifted through slowly. Each image is put up to a vote of all the mods, the ones with enough votes will be returned to the permanent galleries, the ones without will be deleted. Eventually, this will be the way anything is removed from the site.
At this point, nearly a week after the controversy began, there are still around 3000 images in the cleaning gallery. Things may have been moved out of the permanent galleries quickly, but are now being given serious consideration before being removed from the site.

Thanks Mike, for at last a clear explanation what is going to happen with the deleted pictures, this will reassure a lot of people. It was not explaned (or dit I miss this) by Caedes members, it wasn't stipulated earlier, if they find a image not worth enough staying on the site we understand it and I can more and more gain respect again for the work mods did.

Yes, that certainly makes it clearer.

We've been figuring it out as we go...

I find it sad that I no longer have my name in the abstract gallery. Most, I agree, deserved to be knocked off, but a couple I liked, and at least one deserved to stay. Sometimes I put forth all the effort possible into an area that I am not as good at, and this kind of proves it. As long as it makes the site a better one, I don't mind as much.

Joost, like Samatar just said, things have been fairly up in the air until recently, and are still being tested and decided upon. Whether it's good or bad in your eyes, I won't say I've had much to do with the cleaning so far, but I have been watching info and opinions from all sides (both good/bad and mod/user). I posted to hopefully alleviate some fears, a situation which that recent decision could help. It seems as though the cleaning was not meant to be this large initially, but once it had grown to larger proportions, it was decided a more organized selection was needed, thus the system I mentioned above.

There's no guarantee that many, or any, images will return, but hopefully it's some consolation that this is not being done haphazardly and without any personal bias.

It may be a little late to jump into the fray but I can empathize on both sides. The thankless job of the moderators makes them lightning rods for what has to be done, eliminate the load on the server. But from the user side the loss of images is like the loss of a part of you. I lost some images I would rather have retained but realize there is a need to keep the server clean. I keep the originals regardless of what the mods do.

A possible solution, thumbnail all those images that would otherwise be deleted to the individual users page only. If someone wants an image they can pm the holder of the thumbnail and work it out between themselves. Unless the logistics of programming are difficult I believe this would lighten the load on the server and maintain the users porfolio. It then becomes the moderators job to determine only if something belongs in the permanent gallery as a full size image.

I don't think server load was a consideration here. I believe the motive was to improve the quality of images by deleting the less worthy ones (and, as a possible bonus, to maybe encourage people to be more choosy about what they upload in the first place).

would it be possible to remove the subscriptions as well when images are removed, or do we have to do this manually?

I understand the need to keep the image quality high. I wholeheartedly agree there are images that have little potential (Some of mine included) But shouldn't the culling process start with the honest, constructive comments of the subscribers. It's tough to grow technically or artistically if the true (for lack of a better word) criticism is lacking. This lack of true critical growth seems to me to be a reason for the submission of substandard work (mine included). If an images lacks the quality standard for the permanent gallery the poster should know that before the image is deleted. Hence the ability to grow.

I certainly question some images left or gone from galleries including my own, but I also completely accept that given the grand scale of this process those answers can't come this time around. I do agree with Andrew that kindly knowing why an image didn't make it in the future could certainly benefit if it can be done without adding an overwhelming load. I, and I'm sure others, lost images that I felt unsure of until I received a rare, encouraging, high compliment from a mod or several from my peers. I felt most humbled and I'd be lying if I didn't say tickled when those landed in the permanent gallery. That didn't "save" them. My personal acceptance of this is high because by nature I'm not much of a competitor, but I can certainly understand others feeling much like they received gold medals and then had them taken away. The site is largely set up to be competitive and I am not the least bit surprised by some of the reactions. I appreciate that Andrew has expressed empathy towards both sides. It has been needed from all of us since day one and he has done his share (along with several others in this post) to try to make suggestions toward the good. Words like "sub-standard, non-professional, professional quality only, overrated, etc." only serve to fuel the fire and scare people away from uploading, commenting, and voting. That hurts all of us who want to grow and continue to enjoy what we do. I feel that many artists including mods lost images well above standard per opinions as well as retained some that were not per opinions. We've already been told it wasn't entirely based on quality of the image. Our mods are as diversified as the rest of the community here. I'd imagine not all communication between them has been too comfortable either at times. A clearer understanding for and by all has been a slow trickling process as we go through this process where the shock value has been relatively high. An all or nothing viewpoint seems futile to me as does starting from scratch. It's my hope that it's possible for us to listen to eachother, empathize ALOT, and just get through this the best we can. For those who have expressed sadness I truly believe it was far more their concern and empathy for others that motivated them to speak up rather than their concern for self. The only way I know for myself through this is to focus on what's uploaded today, view, vote, and comment when I feel I can and would be open to all other suggestion toward the good. I like to hear the good suggestions made. Even if they are not implemented right away, they may be a seed planted for later.

well said, you should listen to the woman. she knows what shes talkin about.

also wanted to make sure that everyone is feeling free to comment and put there opinions on the boards. I've gotten several comments from people with opinions who were afraid to come out on the boards with a controversial idea because they didnt want to be attacked or ostracized. I just want to make sure everyone feels comfortable and knows that we all are different and have different ideas and opinions. And that nothing you say here will affect anyones opinion about you personal or hold their disagreements against you when they are voting on your images and such. We are all adults and peaceful people, so freedom of expression should be encouraged.

I wouldnt have said anything but I just today was told by a person that they felt uncomfortable posting here. and this is the 4rth time I've heard the same thing.

I save all my images on my own hard drive,I have images that are over 5 years old.So I guess my advice is if a picture means alot to you you should save a copy of it so it wont be lost forever.

I am glad that the trim-down has begun, but since I was at home over the summer and that computer does not bode well with this site, I had no idea my images were going to disappear until I got to school. I wish I had known that most of my pictures that I really liked would go, but I do know that this has to be done. I just wish that I could have known about it sooner and that maybe I could've gotten to keep more than two of my pictures. Is there any way that maybe a person could have x number of images they get to keep in their gallery? I understand that this may not be possible, but I would have liked to keep more than two.

Same for me, I have 26k connection at home...I have now lost 50% of my images and two of my highest ranking C-indexes(my one TG and an abstract)...if there was a problem with image holding capacity(already) I wish I would have known, and I would have taken action...currently I keep images only above 60%, I could have done more, if I knew about it

That being said I am against this 'spring cleaning', if you want us to reduce our database of pics inforce a limit of some kind, perhaps based on time on site or something...don't just go around picking images that are of an 'over-used' variety...let us do it, we know which one's we have done well on and that exemplify our personality.

I agree with rustectrum03, I have already digested the spring cleaning, but stays the bitter taste of been caught redhanded on dope, like in the Olympics, for not havingbeenableto give some quality of pictures.in a few hours I lost 111 images,with thelowest ranked on 67%, as if the incouragement of the commenters didn't count. I think the cleaning must be done, but let us know in time tht cleaning can also be done by ourselves.I deleted 79 more. I still have an overwhelming feeling of being caught, and yes, as noobguy says many people are afraid to say their meaning about this, I had enough PM to think this. But we aren't the masters in this matter. I stay abroad at a friend, the first when I connected on Caedes was PM's alarming about the deleting. Personnal feelings didn't count. I think there is a lot of correspondance between members than you may think. If some people think that I overreacted on this matter I apologize and it is not because I am a competitiveperson, far from that, enjoyed Caedes until this happened, hope this feeling is going to stay.

What I have to remind here is that one user proposed and this I read in lots of PM of users, the matter of giving us some pages (3-4 of 36 images) managed by the mods and the artists, You are searching for higher quality standard and diversity and I for myself experienced thata big gallery is not profitable and well overlooking, than everyone is obliged to delete or the mods themselves.I think the quality will be improved, no-one would be hurt, than images can be put in permanent galleries to stay a long time. It would save a lot of work for everybody.

I agree with the mods changing for the better, there will be times when they will have to make other changes as well in the future, they have been targeted for selfishness comments because some can't accept the fact that of the changes for everyone. I remember how a few reacted to lowering the c-indexes, it didn't seem right at the time but it made alot of sense to do this. Deleting images that have been here awhile will give more space for new members and newer images to upload. I've learned a great deal on here and I think we should give the mods and Caedes many thanks for their work they are doing. But personally I think everyone should view their gallery and delete some images after a month that aren't getting views or votes and give the mods a break from doing this. This site is fun, there are different contests going on that we forget about at times, so let's give thanks to the mods here for that as well. I don't think this is a site to hear complaints everytime the mods has to make changes, this isn't what Caedes is all about. I deleted my whole gallery here for personal reasons and I was a Caedes Cadre. I'm going to thank the mods personally for the great work they are doing here and their time for hearing the abuse from others. I'm here to learn and any changes made are for the good! I also agree with Mimi...100%...Thanks!

thats a good statement and all, but I dont think you should call the people who have had a disagreement selfish. everyone maintains they're own galleries, and most of the main people disagreeing were speaking on behalf of others rather than themselves.

this statement and the statement from mimi about "shocked by the ego & grandiosity of the artists themselves." are the kinds of things that keep people from posting their opinions.

(sorry to point fingers, I still like you mimi, hehe =D )

Thanks for that comment Noobguy, I wasn't referring to everyone being selfish as I spoke, I have done that same thing before, but came to understand that it is better to go with the flow and see how things adjust to the new ways. And I apologize to anyone here who taken that statement wrong. I agree there will be hurt feelings about losing images, and I hope everyone has kept them saved on their HD.

As I recall from the first day I entered caedes.net, no image is immune from deletion. No promises or guarantees were ever made that an image would survive until Armeggedon. That the mods are endeavoring to maintain this as a high quality sight is commendable. They should be pm'ed daily with our thanks for their diligence, not vilified for doing their job. (I'm pretty sure none of them are getting rich from this thankless job) It is at the discretion of the moderators that any image is allowed on the sight to begin with. There should be no problems for the individuals who posted an image to the sight as many have stated they should have these on their harddrive anyway. I can hear very clearly the frustration, anger, sorrow, etc... in this discussion and the calm reasonableness of the moderator responses. I can only equate the deletions of images to being fired from a job. Not having been told I was failing to live up to the standards set forth by the supervisors but being canned for failing anyway. Maybe the lesson from this should be that we all begin the process of self examination of our own portfolio and we begin to offer up more than a pat "Great Shot" "Nice Effort" "Good Capture" to include those comments as to why we rated the image a "7", or a "6". What made the rating go down. Was it the framing, the colours, the focus, the theme, the perspective, the focal point, etc... If we move beyond the discussion of why my portfolio, why that image, we as a community can grow. There won't be a question as to why an image is in the permanent gallery or why it was deleted. Those images that fail the community standard will of themselves implode and the author will either get better or stop posting. Either way the community as a whole is bettered. When the comments are made with a professionalism that we can all attain to, and the praise and criticism is taken as a means to grow, who loses????? But when there is only praise for an image it elevates the image to a place it does not belong. That is why I have no problem with the removal of any image. Mine or anyone elses. Just tell me why it failed the community standard so I can learn and improve. Maybe this is a seperate discussion that is better removed from the current thread but I believe it is a discussion worthy of the entire community's attention.

I agree with your sentiment about the lack of depth to many of the comments left for images. There has been discussion about it before, but the thread has slowly sunk down in the ranks. Maybe it's time for a bump :)

Some very thoughtful comments have been made and I commend everyone for debating this so maturely. That is why I like this site.

I think we have become complacent in recent times as more and more images are uploaded. Perhaps it needs to be spelled out more explicitly (especially for new users who sign up) what the expectations are. Users are understandably disappointed at losing images they liked.

Unfortunately it is often difficult to provide the constructive criticism required. Partly this is due to time - especially with the growth in image submissions, as discussed on other forums. However, I think it is also to so with social interaction. Like everyone else, I can sometimes be guilty of leaving short 'Nice capture' or 'Good work' comments on people's work. However, I sometimes baulk at leaving criticism (however well phrased) on some users' work, particularly when there are already a string of glowing comments on that image. As with any community there are little cliques (and I don't mean that nastily, I think it tends to happen wherever people interact). Some users are quite popular and you see all these lovely little 'Oooh! What a great image!' posts. Like I said, I find it sometimes difficult to be the party-pooper in those circumstances and say 'well, actually this is pretty average'. It's not like I'm such a great artist that I have this wonderful ability to judge others' work! Just as when you upload an image you are putting a little piece of yourself on the line, the same is true of leaving measured criticism - I sometimes take the cowards way out.

This is entirely my problem of course, and I have to deal with my own issues. However, I wonder if other users ever feel like that at all. We certainly seem to have a lack of thoughtful comments on many images and I am guilty as anyone else. It is difficult of course when there are so many images posted, but I think we have already debated that one to death. I for one will attempt in future to leave more rounded comments - we'll see if I can keep to my resolution.

Anyway, I'm running out of steam now.

I would like to reiterate that I totally support the mods in this and I would like to thank them for doing such an important task.

I dont think having images on your hard drive is a good point to make. And I've seen this alot. If the importance of an image was retained by simply keeping on your hard drive, then there would be no need to ever submit to caedes.

fuel to the fire hehe

I think one of the main problems, and I apologise if this has already been covered in this exhaustive topic, is the increasing tendency to post images which, while they maybe fine pieces of work, dont really function as an effective desktop wallpapers and for the most part can be just very personal work.

I think this topic has been approached before about running a separate entity for purely graphic and photographic work that was never really intended to be a desktop background and maybe that could be a solution.

I think that Caedes.net has long ago transcended being a wallpaper site.

quite.

Phil, I think that running a seperate entity is a idea worthy of some consideration. There are definitely images on the site that are beautiful but as was previously stated are not usable for a desktop. I have no idea the amount of work it would take to do this. Are you speaking of a whole seperate website or simply a part of this existing one?

possibly linked separate sites - I know someone has suggested this before on a topic but as i recall they may have got shot down in flames :-(

I think caedes said something in his profile about opening a non desktop gallery in response to a question about wider than 4x3 images.

"instead we will be opening up the galleries to any images that user's wish to share, wallpaper or not."

not sure if this is still under development tho, have to ask the big guy...

The objective is to allow people to upload images of any aspect ratio. It is under developement.

Thanks to me! ;-) Is not this topic being disscussed in another forum?

Referring back to Matt's post. I heartily agree. I feel that same way about leaving criticisms when I see a string of their friends' glowing posts. Just letting you know buddy... you're not alone. =)

like I said b4, I nearly always leave constructive criticizm. and when I dont, that image is typically added to my short list of favorites. But the few other times I havent, are when I'm in a "good" mood and decide to give comments on a great deal of the new images. You tend to lose your flare when commenting in bulk. So know how you feel there.

Somehow it has been misconstrued that I changed my opinion on this topic in mid discussion. I said too many times in this discussion that I support the cleaning. Just cause I have a concern with a certain aspect or something doesnt mean that I have completely made a 180 on my opinion.

Lemmie show to you another point of view. When I first came to the site a couple years ago looking for desktops, I had no idea of the new image and "permanent gallery" structure. I thought that there were great deal of images on the site and the "New Images" section was just a way for a user that browsed the site very often and had "seen it all" to quickly get to the newest posts. Since I was a newcomer and there were so many fantastic images in the photography section, I had no need to separated images old from new. I was very impressed with the quality of art and simplicity of the site structure that I made it my *main* desktop site. When me and my friend auburn (astaples) started making our own art. We knew that an easy way to get a perspective from experienced artists was to post here. If I would have browsed the photography section and seen a bunch of what has been refered to as "substandard" imagery. I probably would have never posted here.

My post about saving a few images from PMs was only even mentioned because I thought it would barely even make a nick in the cleaning. As I said b4. And my posts on the topic of keeping personal attacks (or words hinting at such) out of the forums was an entirely different topic, but not worthy enough to create a new discussion.

So there is my full opinion AND why, for anyone whos gotten confused :-p! If I offended anyone, before or now. Such is life...

Thanks for the comment, Matthew. I have had some PM's as well supporting that particular viewpoint.

That makes me sad. ;( How can I quit creating sub-standard images if you don't let me know how to improve? That's why I came here. I am admittedly intimidated by some who never leave comment to the point of feeling like they don't want my comments on their images either. I try not to let that feeling take over and do comment, vote, etc. anyway until and unless you ask me otherwise. Having friends is the icing on the cake but certainly a sad reason not to have your opinions and help on my images. Especially when your own work proves worthy and you can help mine get better. Sure, some friends are all too cautious, but usually if they are specific enough about what they do like about the image, I can figure out what they don't like without them having to feel like they risk hurting my feelings. I trust that they can be very honest with their vote so in the end I know anyway. Also, many feel more comfortable leaving their comments to me in PM rather than on the image itself. That's fine and safe too. So, perhaps an image that "looks" like it has received all positive actually didn't. If you can honestly assess that it's just "not your style" but that there's really nothing "wrong" with it, then certainly feel comfortable just passing it by. ;) My viewpoints only as I cannot guarantee the safety in this with anyone but myself. This is always a feel your way through issue. I do tend to keep an updated often mental list of artists who appreciate this and artists who don't. But, there's only one way to find out.........

bj, my point of view was not to deter you from posting. almost all of my images from my first 2 or 3 months of posting didnt make it into the permanent galleries or were removed in the cleaning, or in my own cleaning. As I continually get better, the percent of images I create that make it to the permanent galleries "permanently" ( :p ) increases as well. But this is in photography. I'm sure its much harder in your field as the quality of work is completely dependent on your skill in the area. A photographer can buy a really expensive camera and make good pictures. Or simply live in a completely spectacular environment, and create good images. (I have neither of these btw :( ). But a digital or abstract artists has to struggle much harder to bring forth quality. And unfortunately in the cleaning this was also the area that was hit harder. To people like me who know nothing about abstract work, if I flip through that gallery, I would see a bunch of images that look the same. This may be why the mods hit it so hard. In photography its much easier (at least to me) to create an image that stands out as different. I wish I knew more about and understood abstract art more, then I would be able to help you out more with constructive comments on your images and such. I have been trying to expand my horizons. I've been working on 3d modelling programs like maya, and i've downloaded some fractal plugins and such. I figure if I attempt to create them myself then I can better understand where u guys are comming from. Maybe you will hear from me alot more in the future. But either way, u know I still love ya.

Thanks Anthony but I guess I should have made it clearer that I was responding to the comments about others not leaving constructive comment if they see an artist's friends have left more preferable ones. I posted after Matthew agreed with Matthew and verified he's had same comments from others privately. I did try to mention that I completely understood not getting comments from those who simply weren't into the things I try. Actually I'm not even sure how this topic got here. I know there's another place for it, but this is where it landed so this is where I responded.

As far as being deterred from posting, I'm not sure where I implied that, but this has been a long post and maybe I did somewhere. I'm not any more deterred from posting since the cleaning as I was before. I have always been hesitant whether I should post an image. Awesome works have always been displayed here and I ponder on my own work sometimes beyond the rediculous. I think I probably even trashed some that may have made it. I'm my own worst critic anyway! I'm pretty humbled that some of my images have the next chance around. Sure I was sad to see a couple of favorites go and even sadder to see other's works go, but more remained than I thought would. So, Sam's last comment about how we should feel if our images are now in the permanent galleries is just how I'm going to try to feel about them, be encouraged by that, but not take for granted they are there. My first image is there, my last image is there. It's that slump in the middle I need to work on! lol

So today I discovered the spring clean (it's like being on vacation somewhere for some weeks and then coming just to discover that half of your house was dismantled :) First I had all the thoughts of Why? Why this image? Who? and How?, but then I remembered that I agreed on something everytime I uploaded a picture: It's the mods decission what will stay up for how long, that's the rule I have to accept to be able to upload my art for free... I think it's a low price I have to pay. I feel honored that so many of my pictures made it to the permanent gallery and I again want to say thank you that you - Caedes - and all the mods let me show my stuff to others for free!

It's a gift from you guys (including the Caedes Cadre) to us, as we say in Germany: Never look a gift horse in the mouth!

I can understand that some feel offended because their pics were junked, but those people I just can tell: Never forget that it is a gift Caedes offers you!

Cheers
Heiko

Well said Heiko! My thoughts exactly on this issue.

Ditto Tracy.

Thanks, Heiko. I don't want anyone to consider me a heavy. I, and all the Mods, have only the best interests of Caedes and its members in mind. I would recommend to everyone to retain your photos in a file on your hard drive as a back-up.

Agree with you, Heiko :-)

Can I request another? My gallery needs some serious deletation, but I am afraid to do so myself...

!!
be careful where u tread!!

Stuffnstuff, only four of your images are in the permenant galleries. The rest are all in the new images gallery so unless they are moved to the permenant galleries, they will be removed in due time.

We are trying to avoid having a situation where another spring cleaning will be needed. Generally we are being alot more picky about what gets moved to the permenant galleries now.

Hehe, thanks. :-)

You sound like the grim reaper! "In due time..."