I present good work and high quality photos, sometimes with a touch of art and fantasy. I still get 42 for a really good photo.
Caedes.net have heard this before and done NOTHING! CAEDES WE have payed for our space here! Why do you not hear us?

Please remove the votingsystem!!! It does not work!!!!!!!
Let the downloads show the real popularity of our work!!!
Anyone that feels the same as me, get in touch with Caedes.net and tell them so!

/Vera Vardig

Helena, this site is privately owned and absolutely no one is required to pay to use any space on this site. If you do pay or have paid, it is only because that is what you chose to do.Paying gives no one any rights to dictate how the site is run.

Many of us view our works as being above average with below average points on our image. :o)
There really isn't a perfect solution to what you have stated as a problem.
In addition, a download does not show the popularity of your work, it simply means that your image has been viewed full size on the site.

I am sure that *caedes hears what you are saying. :)

The fact remains, this is *caedes site and he gets to do with it as he pleases.
Also, *caedes is a single individual, not a group of people. :o)

I hope this helps :=)

Dear Helena, We have all been down this road before and though it is very annoying, disheartening and demotivating, there is really nothing we can do about it. Many of us would like to see the c:index done away with, but it simply is part of the site. Sometimes I feel like it is who you know and sometimes I feel like I am just not trying hard enough when I get a low score that I don't feel was warranted, but either way, we have all experienced this and my best advice to you would be to ignore it as much as you possibly can! :) Cindy

There is no perfect system when dealing with people looking at "art". It IS in the eye of the beholder and cannot be changed. The CI is a common yardstick, like it or lump it, perfect? no, but the standard here at Caedes. We all get rejection letters and sometimes we should...How hard would you try if you got a high score every time? Maybe the low score is a wake up call. The CI is not the be all and end all, just a numerical yardstick, hopefully applied equally across the domain. However if not, who actually cares? We take pictures of things we see and experience, not for others, the sharing comes after...take your photographs, learn from others, enjoy first what you do and quit worrying about a number. Listen to your commentaries and grow in your personal art. Rick

We can do something! Stop paying!!!!
We can start a new site! Piece of cake! :-)

/VeraVardig

you don't have to pay a thing as has already been explained to you frequently - if you want a free image dumping ground with no input from its members then try Flickr.

Or as you seem to think it's a piece of cake to encode, produce and host a site like this, then knock yourself out and get back to us when its finished.

Can I ask something Helena what brought you to the site, and what did you want to achieve as an artist on this site? did you become a member to get feed back on your art? did you just want to share your art? or was it the c-index that drew you here?

The reason the c-index is here is because Caedes enjoys statistics as well as art.

It's not compulsory to pay to be a member and upload your art but it does give you the privilege of uploading 2 images instead of 1 and not having to go into the voting booth.

As its been said above it is *Caedes who owns this site, he just allows us to be part of it, he is the one who decides what will be changed or not no matter how many people jump up and down at the end of the day its up to him.

As Rick (RKP) has said don't take notice of the numbers, take notice in the comments and the suggestions they are more realistic than the numbers ;)

For somebody with the age of 37years, it is very childish, to start a topic like this one!
The low C-Index of your images is not the fault of Caedes,
nor the members who are voting on yours, or my images!
The cause is all by YOURSELF!!!. And if you don't like it,
why don't you leave this site, and go to a site were they
like your...."good work and high quality photos, sometimes with a touch of art and fantasy".....!
John

A reminder: Please try to be as friendly as you can be! I am only human.

Well, I have changed my mind! I LOVE THE VOTING SYSTEM!
After posting this I am sure I will gett at least 98 on my next photo! *lol* I got 2 on my latest work!

Thanx for the laugh! :-)

regards
VeraVardig

Helena, there are probably 25/30 pictures in my gallery that I think should have a much higher c-index score but I've learned to be sanguine about it. I'd be lying to say that I wouldn't like all my images to score in the 80s or 90s but I know that's never going to happen. I've arrived at the position where as long as I'm happy with the image and I receive favourable comments or good constructive criticism then that's OK with me.If other people want to mark me down then it's their short-sightedness.

Don't let them get to you. Rise above them. Your work is good - You know it and I know it!

Thanx braces! *hugs*

/Helena

I take the constructive comments people leave vice the ridiculous voted scores. Most of the time when you have a winner you know it and that's all that matters. your friends and others who comment are the only inputs you should really take notice of. As your skill progresses though you may look back at older work/posts and say "that really wasn't so great" I have done that with many of my photos.

An adult should be able to take criticism. As mentioned by several above, YOU are the judge of what you like. There's way too much "OOOHH marvelous, great shot, etc." going on. If someone else likes it, great, if not, move on. Life is not a popularity contest.

I have a suggestion Helena.. is there an art gallery near you? why not put some work on a cd and take it to the gallery and ask them their opinion, that way its very unbiased and you will get a professional opinion.. I have done this at my local gallery and got helpful critic..

One way to get a good rating on all your images no matter how good or bad they are is to join what one of our members calls, "the treacle club". All you have to do is watch the new images gallery and every time an image appears, rush to its page and tell the artist it's great, beautiful, the finest masterpiece you have ever seen - regardless of whether it's good or not. That way the other members of the treacle club will leave similar comments on your photos. Another thing to do as you look at the new images is to note the works by people who've left these comments on your work. Go to the voting booth, and give them all 10's regardless of the quality of their work. That way they'll reciprocate, and your c-indices will go up.

This method works for a lot of our members. It might work for you too.

;-)

I just don't see that as happening. At least, I find it hard to believe.

Oh, and one other thing: Whenever another member of the treacle club gets an honest critical review you must immediately pile on the critic and tell them that their opinion is neither correct nor desired, so they will never offer an opinion again. Thus honest opinions will be suppressed and only praise will be accepted.

wow! is it a full moon out or something...everyone is getting a little touchy..i say ignore the voting system..most people im sure probably dont even think about how they vote simply pick the same score for each one until theyve done enough to upload their own images. rely instead on the critique and regard given to you by friends and passers by alike...

Heh, heh. Yeah. You're right. The c-index has been a bone of contention since the site began. The old-timers on the site have come to ignore it, or at least not be too offended by low scores.

On the other hand I find that this site, because of it's very nature and raison d'etre tends to favor certain types of art over others. Color tends to beat out black and white. Photography tends to beat computer-generated art. We all really have to decide for ourselves how much credence to lend to the c-index.

Oh, and that bit about the treacle club? I'd actually prefer that you don't try it :-)

I have been hearing about this 'Treacle Club' for some time now and have yet to find any evidence of its existance. It must be a very well kept secret - does it have special passwords and such? Is one invited to join or is it by application? Maybe some intiation ceremonies to be admitted?

I would not qualify because I can count the number of 10's I have given in the time I have been a member (getting on for 3 years) on one hand - in fact of 3/5's of a hand, and if I am voting I do that before viewing the new images.
Oh well, no 10's for me then !!

what the heck is the treacle club? i have read all of the above and don't quite get it.

I think it may be 'tongue-in-cheek'? Obviously, the three of us aren't initiated! lol

Vera, the fact that this happened on your thread doesn't mean I'm implying that you are among this crowd.

The "treacle club" is amorphous circles of members who use flattery and social networking to try to drive other members to their galleries, so they will receive lots of traffic in their galleries and lots of praise regardless of whether they produce good art.

Surely you've seen it. People who leave one-line comments on almost every image. People on whose images you leave a helpful critique only to be told by another user that you are not wanted here. People who post images of a crooked, out-of-focus back of someone else's head, then get a c-index of 60 and a long page of comments like, "Great job!" from the same people who mysteriously left comments on all the other bad images in their gallery.

Several of the long-time members have noticed that there is a trend among some groups of users to use Caedes.net as a sort of face-book social networking arena instead of a place for the exchange of art and good, widely enjoyed desktop wallpaper. It is not for me to use to show photos of me and my mom at the Arc de Triomph or my girlfriend grinning at the camera or some other snapshot related imagery. It's for people who seriously try to produce art. Now we all have to learn, and that's just fine. What's undesired is people posting images into which they have clearly invested no effort or thought, then soliciting friends under this thin gauzy cover.

Frankly I wish that people who want to have a face-book type site would just go to face-book instead of here.

.......It is not for me to use to show photos of me and my mom at the Arc de Triomph or my girlfriend grinning at the camera or some other snapshot related imagery......))

@
I agree with Regmar
I was already wondering a long time, why the mods allowed these (holiday) snapshots !
It reduces 'caedes' into an ordinary big 'family album' !
John

I agree about the treacle clubs too, although I am not sure they actually realise they are doing it. You are not alone in low marks for good work, especially if it is out of the ordinary.

I'm in the same camp as 'regmar' on this, but I am quite surprised to find that a site 'Praetor' is feeling this way too.

I find the site incredibly frustrating AND demoralising at times, but I try to ignore the fact that I get few comments and rubbish CI's.

I've looked through the New Image galleries numerous times lately and, just by looking at the name of the artist, I can tell if they will have a lot of comments or just a few. And it's the same group of people always commenting on the work of the same group of people.

Personally, I never comment on any members work regularly just
for the sake of making friends or because I expect comments in return and I never leave comments just because I've received them. That's despite the fact that I have noticed that it does happen. In fact, out of the few regular visitors that I do get
(only one of them ever says anything constructive), I only comment on any of their work occassionally.

Mostly, I only comment on images that I think are really good, beautiful, interesting or different/unique. I rarely give critical comments as I don't feel I am qualified enough to give advice beyond correcting obvious faults in a constructive manner (such as tilted images). Maybe my CI's support the fact that I'm not technically qualified enough?

Someone mentioned in another thread that the more you put into the site, the more you get out. In other words, the more comments you give, the more you will recieve. Well, I've tried that and it didn't work for me.

I've also been through the permanent galleries (as I've mentioned in another thread), and noticed that the same names appear over and over again. I also mentioned, for example that in the Abtract perms, out of 120 images on 10 pages, 62
belonged to the same 3 artists. And the other permanent galleries seem equally 'unbalanced' as well.

Also, I've never thought about the voting being 'corrupted' until now. I suppose if people wanted go through the new image gallery first and then go to the voting booth they could decide WHO to vote up or down. I guess I have been a little naive not to have thought about it that way.

What really makes me laugh is that certain people spend a lot of time moaning about getting the occassional low score, but the majority of their work scores high and they always get a lot of comments.

Anyway, it doesn't really matter what I or anyone else says. Nobody and nothing is going to change their attitude, behaviour or opinions on the site.
Many of the people that don't understand the 'treacle club' comments are usually part of it and are just too blinkered to see what's going on.

I don't want to be seen as a moaner or a stirrer, but sometimes it's hard to ignore the overwhelming favouritism of the few. And it helps to get things off my chest even though it's not going to make me popular or win me any fans.

At the end of the day it seems to me that it's not what you do on Caedes, it's who your friends are.

I've been here just over 4 years and I saw that after a few weeks so it's been happening for a long time.. Unfortunately I have to agree with Reg and Paul there is a treacle club and its been around for a long time..

It's happend to me with the treacle.. I actually uploaded a not so good image (grainy, slightly blurry) a long time ago just to see if the people who did leave comments all the time were really looking at my work and giving an honest opinion.. the result.. "Great work".. "beautiful".. "cool" etc when it should have been "too grainey".. "too blurry".. "what-the-hell-were-you-thinking!".. lol

Don't get me wrong it's nice to have nice comments but should be taken with a grain of salt.. now if someone says a nice comment that has never commented before or has made a suggestion then thats the one i would listen to before the treacle club ;)

The big C is just a number that really doesn't do much except for the boss (its his toy) ;)

As one who's been here a long time, my suggestion is, ignore it. Don't let what you may perceive as favoritism, clique-osity, etc deter you from expressing yourself.

Make art.

Throw yourself into it. Spend time making it exactly what you think it should be. When you have finished put it out here. If you want to comment on others' work, do. Expect the same treatment. Just as you don't have the time to comment on every image here, don't be surprised if others don't have the time to do so as well.

Enjoy Caedes.Net. It is the best community-based art forum I've ever seen, and so I patronize it, and I do my best to make it better. I think that if someone sticks with this place they too will find it stays with you like a familiar shirt, and feels just as good. Forget the "treacle club", and use this place as you will.

Haha Helena! JOIN THE CLUB. I've got shirts! Many of us feel you. It can be disenchanting at times, but I just ignore it. Ignore the silly index. I've seen shots on this site that have scores in the 90's and I wouldn't give em a 3, and I've seen just the opposite. The best I can figure it is voter fatigue or gremlins in the system. LOL :P Do not fret!

Hi Helena sorry for the late comment. :o(

First a question for you have you recently deleted a lot of your gallery uploads ? if so it's a shame but now back to the subject.
Caedes is simply a wallpaper download site where uploaders work can be easily downloaded from the wwww, or stolen by sad copyright pirates, & is not the great artist community you want to believe in.

Another question why pay the monthly 3 dollars when you don't need to upload two images a day, do you know where your all Cadre subscriptions go ? does the site make money from advertising ? are there profits made ? who pockets the profits ? have you asked the treasurer yet ? Can anyone look at the finance books ? .. questions questions all unanswered.

As a Cadre member your important image votes are often missed, giving the so called cows [I'm one] free reign. But I see I'm preaching to the converted now as your simply an Artist like me .. well done. :o)
As long as there are obsessive personalities spending far too long on this site unfairly influencing members, artists, cadre, & staff alike there will never be a reliable C-index.

Phil, if you have a question/questions as to where the money goes that keeps the server running so anyone may upload images to the site,etc., I am sure *caedes would respond to a civil, polite inquiry via PM.
Thank you.

Actually, if my ever-increasingly fuzzy memory serves correctly, *caedes has, in fact, detailed what costs were incurred. And that was prior to several hardware/software upgrades in the meantime.

I'm guessing if someone really wanted to know, they'd invest the necessary effort to find the info.

Hello Mimi, & Phil

I love to throw the cat in amongst the pigeons when needed !
It isn't of any real concern to me what happens to Cadre contributions as I've only ever contributed once, & rarely need to use the Cadre service. If anyone is really interested to know why don't they ask Phil above, as he seems well informed already. (o:
My major concern in this discussion is the C-index issue mentioned by Helena in this thread.

[Ducks to avoid rotten flying eggs] perhaps I'd best go now folks !

I do not pay much attention to the cindex.I almost never go to my caedes control page.When I view the recent comments on my photos I often forget to look at the number of views and downloads or the cindex results.It`s nice to see one of our photos on the "front page" but thats not necessarily a measure of a good photo in my opinion.I have put up some photos that I thought were marginal at best and was surprised to see them on the first page of the cindex.Today for instance, I saw a really good photo that was posted by a newcomer that made it to the first page of the cindex.It is not the first time but this tells me that it is not by popularity alone that gets you a high rating, its the quality of your photo.Sometimes it might be by a popular vote that images get a high rating but as I see it this system is as just and fair as it can be given the circumstances.Sure, we all feel that some of our images get overlooked and under rated.Artists have egos and perhaps feel things a bit more keenly than others.So this might seem like a tough environment for us artistic type personalities,who me,to express ourselves through our images.This is probably one of the one of the most kindness venues available to do so.

Can someone explain the C-index? I'm a new comer, and don't get it..... maybe thats a good thing?

Sasson, Check your PM's. :=)