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Discussion Board -> Photography -> Not Enough B&W...
Not Enough B&W...
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Have to agree with all you say Stephen!...
At present I am working on lots of B&W! .. reason being, that my camera club holds periodic contests for it!...The medium is very fascination, because you have to buy or invest in various types of paper to print them on!!....
B&W has to be 'prepared' correctly...(if that is the word!)..
and again, only certain types of image is suitable for it too!..
It can be dramatic or it can lose it's appeal altogether!...depending on the presentation!....
In all my time on here...I have never known B&W have a high C score!....
Maybe a separate gallery for B&W?
At present I am working on lots of B&W! .. reason being, that my camera club holds periodic contests for it!...The medium is very fascination, because you have to buy or invest in various types of paper to print them on!!....
B&W has to be 'prepared' correctly...(if that is the word!)..
and again, only certain types of image is suitable for it too!..
It can be dramatic or it can lose it's appeal altogether!...depending on the presentation!....
In all my time on here...I have never known B&W have a high C score!....
Maybe a separate gallery for B&W?
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* To Believe in myself and have faith in my Photography *
OwdBob'sGallery
I like B/W, in fact I love B/w and have even been known to venture into it -with varying results.
However, I do not agree that one ALWAYS has to consider how it will look before you take the photo - - sometimes it becomes apparent afterwards that a colour image would look better in b/w. My photo After The Wedding
proves this. I also posted a slightly different shot in colour, After The Wedding 2
of the same arrangement which received a similar voting mark. I preferred the colour one but it was archived, the b/w was permed.
Do I think it is used correctly on Caedes? Not always, but then colour very often isn't either.
I am sure a separate Gallery for b/w would go a long way towards helping people to see what is good and what is not, by comparison.
B/W images have a more timeless quality and (I think) require a lot more skill to perfect.
My 2c's worth :)
If using layers is a prerequisite for a good b/w image then I may as well give up :) because I can not do layers - I know I must be thick, but I can't and thats that.
Edit: I see Dunstickin also mentioned a B/W gallery - good!
Second Edit: Ther MUST be some high scores here somewhere for b/w surely ?
THIS one of mine received 81 and there are far far better images than that one here - I know that for a fact.
Third Edit: I see what you mean about low scores This image Kumarakom 1 by lvld
I think deserved a better rating than it got
However, I do not agree that one ALWAYS has to consider how it will look before you take the photo - - sometimes it becomes apparent afterwards that a colour image would look better in b/w. My photo After The Wedding
proves this. I also posted a slightly different shot in colour, After The Wedding 2
of the same arrangement which received a similar voting mark. I preferred the colour one but it was archived, the b/w was permed.
Do I think it is used correctly on Caedes? Not always, but then colour very often isn't either.
I am sure a separate Gallery for b/w would go a long way towards helping people to see what is good and what is not, by comparison.
B/W images have a more timeless quality and (I think) require a lot more skill to perfect.
My 2c's worth :)
If using layers is a prerequisite for a good b/w image then I may as well give up :) because I can not do layers - I know I must be thick, but I can't and thats that.
Edit: I see Dunstickin also mentioned a B/W gallery - good!
Second Edit: Ther MUST be some high scores here somewhere for b/w surely ?
THIS one of mine received 81 and there are far far better images than that one here - I know that for a fact.
Third Edit: I see what you mean about low scores This image Kumarakom 1 by lvld
I think deserved a better rating than it got
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The question is not what you look at, but what you see ~ Marcel Proust
I seem to remember a discussion started by my good self some time ago about a separate gallery, but in the end I have some to terms with the concept that B&W should live within the galleries we have. After all, a B&W church i still a church.
I post a lot of B&W. Well over half of my pictures are B&W. They do seem to suffer from CI rating, but if you don't post you cant make a statement.
Like LynEve, sometime I shoot a B&W picture, sometimes I shoot a colour picture and sometimes I shoot a picture that becomes B&W. Funnily I never shoot one that becomes colour, but then we see naturally in colour so its obvious, isn't it.
When I download a set of pictures from the camera some are de-saturated straight away. Others later, when I edit them, to see if I want to try a different feel. These are the ones that I have mentally shot in B&W, where the texture and shape of the scene make it obviously monochrome in my own mind. I find the colours zone out (is that a phrase) when I view the scene before taking them.
Usually I move a picture to B&W if there is insufficient colour interest in it, which is a lot of the time, hence the amount of B&W I post. Any picture I want to add character to, by darkening or upping the contrast etc would go to B&W, simply because some things cannot be done well in colour.
I even have some like The Blue Tower that work equally well in colour & B&W.
In the perm galleries you have to get to page 7 to get to a B&W picture (Date order). Oh look, its one of mine. In CI order it is also Page 7 for this incredibly beautiful B&W with a CI of 93!. Posted in 2006. So it can be done, but it is hard work. Mind you, the Kumarakom image mentioned by LynEve also has some flaws, like not being level, so it is up to us artists as well to make good posts, and not expect points for the fact we have produced something in B&W.
I think the problem with B&W is the same as pictures that are different or novel in approach. We recently had a discussion about the sameness of postings in Caedes. I think B&W is another aspect of this. Unless B&W pictures get through to the permanent galleries more artists will not explore this medium, one which I find fascinating, beautiful and very rewarding.
I post a lot of B&W. Well over half of my pictures are B&W. They do seem to suffer from CI rating, but if you don't post you cant make a statement.
Like LynEve, sometime I shoot a B&W picture, sometimes I shoot a colour picture and sometimes I shoot a picture that becomes B&W. Funnily I never shoot one that becomes colour, but then we see naturally in colour so its obvious, isn't it.
When I download a set of pictures from the camera some are de-saturated straight away. Others later, when I edit them, to see if I want to try a different feel. These are the ones that I have mentally shot in B&W, where the texture and shape of the scene make it obviously monochrome in my own mind. I find the colours zone out (is that a phrase) when I view the scene before taking them.
Usually I move a picture to B&W if there is insufficient colour interest in it, which is a lot of the time, hence the amount of B&W I post. Any picture I want to add character to, by darkening or upping the contrast etc would go to B&W, simply because some things cannot be done well in colour.
I even have some like The Blue Tower that work equally well in colour & B&W.
In the perm galleries you have to get to page 7 to get to a B&W picture (Date order). Oh look, its one of mine. In CI order it is also Page 7 for this incredibly beautiful B&W with a CI of 93!. Posted in 2006. So it can be done, but it is hard work. Mind you, the Kumarakom image mentioned by LynEve also has some flaws, like not being level, so it is up to us artists as well to make good posts, and not expect points for the fact we have produced something in B&W.
I think the problem with B&W is the same as pictures that are different or novel in approach. We recently had a discussion about the sameness of postings in Caedes. I think B&W is another aspect of this. Unless B&W pictures get through to the permanent galleries more artists will not explore this medium, one which I find fascinating, beautiful and very rewarding.
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Don't take any notice of my comments. I post pictures that get a CI of 0! (Well almost)
Crysophilax's Gallery and Web Page
Here's two shots of mine that are for all intents and purposes the same...one in color and one in B&W.
I think it's a good example of the use of B&W in order to convey a completely different feeling than the color version...I think the B&W version is much more effective than color and, surprisingly, it seems the voters agreed!!
I think it's a good example of the use of B&W in order to convey a completely different feeling than the color version...I think the B&W version is much more effective than color and, surprisingly, it seems the voters agreed!!
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Check out my website
I too, have posted numerous thoughts that were pro-B/W. It's something that gets put out there from time to time by a number of members. Noahnott used to push for it on something of a regular basis.
One suggestion I'd made, which I thought might've had legs, was to add B/W to the selection of drop down filters when one is searching through images. *caedes seemed to think it would be a good idea, but it seems to have gotten shelved. Perhaps it might be worth re-consideration at some point.
To get back to one of the original points you made, no some members don't like B/W. I've gotten comments, or seem them on others' work which directly reflect it. "I don't normally like B/W but this one's ok." Like wow, so I guess I can thank Mr or Ms Member for tanking my image in the VB just because it doesn't have pretty colors?? Sadly, yes.
I would love a separate B/W gallery, and think it might increase the odds of an image getting "permed" here. I also think, if somehow more members were educated on what makes a good B/W image, or why an image is, or needs to be in B/W, we might be making a bit more progress as well.
One suggestion I'd made, which I thought might've had legs, was to add B/W to the selection of drop down filters when one is searching through images. *caedes seemed to think it would be a good idea, but it seems to have gotten shelved. Perhaps it might be worth re-consideration at some point.
To get back to one of the original points you made, no some members don't like B/W. I've gotten comments, or seem them on others' work which directly reflect it. "I don't normally like B/W but this one's ok." Like wow, so I guess I can thank Mr or Ms Member for tanking my image in the VB just because it doesn't have pretty colors?? Sadly, yes.
I would love a separate B/W gallery, and think it might increase the odds of an image getting "permed" here. I also think, if somehow more members were educated on what makes a good B/W image, or why an image is, or needs to be in B/W, we might be making a bit more progress as well.
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Please, even if you don't visit my gallery, check out my "Faves".I've left them intact since day "1", and would like it if every image there got the attention they deserved.
I think those comments "I don't normally like bw........" kind of indicate how many Caedes voters come to the site with fairly narrow ideas of beauty and art. Fair enough, we are who we are but it certainly does make it tougher for those with a broader or divergent aesthetic. When I saw this topic in the threads just now I stopped to think about what I think of bw and I realized that ALL the images that pop into my head immediately, when I ponder one "photos I remember" are bw images. Ansel Adams mountains and one shot I don't know the name off, an entirely posed streetscape with reflections in puddles and newspapers blowing and the whole thing still sits in my head despite me having very few actual visual memories. (I'm a verbal guy, my brain stuff is almost entirely in words, I usually turn images into descriptions!) So I guess that means bw really hits my groove even though I've very few bw images of my own. Yet. :)
Mikel.
Mikel.
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Three Cheers for Caedes for that which has been created here from nothing. All Hail the Big C!
I have to agree with all of the above, yet keep this short.
I am a huge fan of B+W and when I'm going for something I shoot straight from the camera in a monochrome setting. Lets look back to Ansel Adams. A B+W pro, who was at his prime during the first movement into color. He stated he wasn't mad about color coming into place, and that it is the future of photography.
This man never followed the heard and suddenly changed up to color. He stuck to his guns and made a big name for himself.
Another one of my idols in the B+W genre woulod have to be Simon Marsden. Who also shoot mostly w/ infrared film. He's a modern guy who knows the art and value of B+W. So with all that being said. I wouldn't want a B+W drop down filter or section for uploading, Because then everyone is going to go out and take some junky B+W pics and try to fill up the gallery. Let it stay "underground" to the few and the proud who apprectie the art and history of B+W.
That's my 2 cents, and Stephen, your B+W is amazing. Keep up the good work.
Jay
I am a huge fan of B+W and when I'm going for something I shoot straight from the camera in a monochrome setting. Lets look back to Ansel Adams. A B+W pro, who was at his prime during the first movement into color. He stated he wasn't mad about color coming into place, and that it is the future of photography.
This man never followed the heard and suddenly changed up to color. He stuck to his guns and made a big name for himself.
Another one of my idols in the B+W genre woulod have to be Simon Marsden. Who also shoot mostly w/ infrared film. He's a modern guy who knows the art and value of B+W. So with all that being said. I wouldn't want a B+W drop down filter or section for uploading, Because then everyone is going to go out and take some junky B+W pics and try to fill up the gallery. Let it stay "underground" to the few and the proud who apprectie the art and history of B+W.
That's my 2 cents, and Stephen, your B+W is amazing. Keep up the good work.
Jay
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Open up your mind and go your own way.
In my years at Caedes...it's surprisingly been quite a few :)...I've noticed a significant divide on the subject of B&W. You've got those individuals on one side who just gush over the benefits of a B&W shot (I'm on that side!!). And you've got others on the exact opposite side that would tell you that B&W no longer serves a purpose since the invention of color film.
I'll start off with my thoughts: Obviously, human beings see in color. The use of color can immediately draw your eyes into a shot and take your breathe away...that's why we are so drawn to sunrises and sunsets. Only for a brief time in the day is our world saturated with reds, oranges, yellows, etc. that we are naturally drawn to and pleased by. So, if that's the case, why would anyone choose to take that away!? I use B&W in order to take away the natural element of color from a scene. We know what colors objects are generally supposed to be, so we tend not to spend too much time really looking at that object. Take the color away and you don't have that crutch to lean on. You have to take other things into account...as a photographer, those are composition, texture, sharpness, and overall feeling/atmosphere. A color shot that is lacking good composition can sometimes still be pleasing to look at. A B&W shot that is not composed correctly looses everything and means nothing.
To me, you have to think about B&W before you take a shot (regardless if you take it in color and convert it later). You've got to visualize how it will look when you take the color away. It's always so interesting to me when I have an image in Photoshop that's in color. Everything is distinctly separate because of the different colors. All of the sudden you take the color away and everything kind of mulls together into a boring mess. That's when composition and tones are important...use layers to alter the levels/contrast or use the dodge and burn tools much like Ansel Adam did in his darkroom.
I like B&W because it portrays a different feeling than color. It's challenging and a completely different experience to work with.
Those are my thoughts...I really want to hear yours. Do you like B&W...Do you despise B&W...why? Do you think it's used correctly on Caedes? Do you think B&W deserves a low c-index all the time? (that's the subject of a different discussion!!) Have at it..I'm looking forward to hearing everyone's opinions!!