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Discussion Board -> Desktop Wallpaper, Art, etc. -> A certain arrogance

A certain arrogance

.Tomeast
02/26/09 2:09 AM GMT
I have noticed many new people posting.So many of them are asking for some input but get none whatsoever.There are no comments on their photos after so many days.I do try and offer some input if I see something that I believe worthy.I do have to side step my paranoia as coming across as being arrogant.Any one could look into my gallery and have a lot of to critique.I have to admit that I have become a little squeamish at offering input to some members because after offering some critique, I immediately received some of the same on my photos.I was pleased to get this input and it was correct but it seemed retaliatory in nature.I stepped out of my "clique" and seemed to get a negative response and never heard from them again.I feel for the new people that cannot get a comment on their photos.I often look at someones profile before I give some critique and size them up you might say.I look for age first, young people can take it, established members in a clique, I tend to sidestep having been bitten.That`s just the way it is here and it`s too bad.I wish that more of us could pay attention to new people with a few rather lousy first posts and encourage them to improve and post again when we see something in their photos.
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::casechaser
02/26/09 2:33 AM GMT
First of all, I have never noticed any "arrogance" in the comments of yours I have read. Secondly, Tom, I think you are correct in the need for comment on the work of new people. I suspect, that for many of us, time is a problem. I know that I am spotty in leaving comments. But, a desire to do more is alive.
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+purmusic
02/26/09 3:19 AM GMT
Ok, have an idea to address those images/artists who's images are not garnering many, if any at all, comments/critiques.


Instead of non-Cadre members voting on ten (10) images in order to upload an image, how's about ... voting on eight (8) images and commenting/critiquing two (2).

Or some such combination of the two activities.


That said, Tom? Never detected any arrogance in your comments either. Any that I have read have been more than generous on the plus side of things.

And no, that is not a slight against you.

When you have offered suggestions, it was with a gentle hand and a discerning eye along with the positive stuff.


Annnnd ... good on ya for recognizing some behaviour, that I personally feel is anathema to one's creativity. As well as, our beloved site.
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"An eye for an eye, and soon the whole world is blind." - Mahatma Gandhi
::egggray
02/26/09 2:13 PM GMT
Very good idea Les about commenting/critiquing two images. I will start to do that, and so should other Cadre members.
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If you wish to purchase framed photos, prints or greeting cards of my work please visit my website .http://www.redbubble.com/people/ziggy7
::LynEve
02/26/09 10:20 PM GMT
The easiest way to encourage new members is to look in the New Artists under Other Stuff where it says

"Newest Caedes.net Artists
These newly uploaded images are the first to be contributed by the member. We would like to give them attention and encouragement so they are more likely to hang around and contribute further to the site. Try to visit each image and provide a constructive comment or two."

This is something I have tried to do more often lately.
It has to be said though that the majority of new members do not give any indication that they have recieved or appreciated any input - maybe through shyness or lack of confidence, I dont know.
There are plesant exceptions, and these encourage us to continue.

I note that right now there are no new artists listed.
A tentative suggestion that the list remains current for longer than at present - sometimes I go back to catch up and the list has changed, it seems very quickly.

Another thought - what if the number of required votes was perhaps reduced but make it compulsory to also comment/critique those images as well. Benefits all round.
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The question is not what you look at, but what you see ~ Marcel Proust
.Tomeast
02/27/09 12:50 AM GMT
We runs the risk of coming of as being arrogant when critiquing photos, especially when we know that of our photos are not perfect.John and Les, I know now that I am showing some consideration in wording my critiques from your input here.I was thinking more along the lines that perhaps others are arrogant for not commenting on some of the new members images.I often see a new image that I feel is pretty good and there is maybe one comment on it when right next to it is a so so photo from a popular member with like twenty comments.I posted this thread in the hopes that we could open the doors a little more to new members and stray from the cliques that we hold on to.I like the photos that I comments on and encourage friends even though I feel that some of their photos fall short as I am sure they do..This is part of being friends here.Lyn, I understand what you are saying and agree.Lets try and open up to new members and see what can come of it.
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+purmusic
02/27/09 5:52 AM GMT
"Another thought - what if the number of required votes was perhaps reduced but make it compulsory to also comment/critique those images as well. Benefits all round."

/\ Good idea, Lyn ... wish I had thought of that.

:oP

What is important, I feel, is what you quoted from the 'welcoming new members to the site' page. That being these words here:

"Try to visit each image and provide a constructive comment or two."


"Lets try and open up to new members and see what can come of it."

Agreed, Tom. :o)

There are many benefits to doing so, apart from the obvious act of extending a warm welcome.

Fresh ideas, new approaches ... it's a good good thing in my books for furthering/advancing one's art and inspiring creativity. Particularly, if 'you' feel or find yourself in a creative slump.
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"An eye for an eye, and soon the whole world is blind." - Mahatma Gandhi
.Tomeast
02/27/09 9:20 PM GMT
I can`t say that I am in agreement with making it a mandatory requirement to have to comment on a photo.I understand that it might be a benefit but I feel it should be a matter of choice.As I have stated, I just feel it is wrong to comments on friends photos only and not have a good look at some of the new peoples photos that are posted.Time is of course a factor as John stated.Friends lists can get lengthy and we do want to leave comments of course.A little time spent stepping out of that routine is time well spent.
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+purmusic
02/28/09 1:37 AM GMT
Well, since it is now mandatory for non-Cadre members to vote on ten (10) images in order to upload an image ... the idea put forth simply incorporates part of the objective of this discussion, no?

Annnnd ... may serve to reinforce the commenting/critiquing habit. Get people used to/comfortable in doing so, simply stated. As well as, instilling this activity earlier on with some.

Would it be successful?

Not sure. It would at least provide or extend a welcome of sorts to newer members.
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"An eye for an eye, and soon the whole world is blind." - Mahatma Gandhi
.oksyl
03/01/09 1:52 AM GMT
i have read all the above comments and i want to shout1 but i cant1 there is a financial crisis going on, and i sold my caps key for extra money some weeks ago. so's i do not embarrass myself in my reply, i had to dip into my daughters inheritance and remove a large amount of funds to purchase a new. . CAPs key! OH! the strain of it all! Maybe some people cant comment because of the embarrassment from a missing CAPs key. Did you ever think of that! Probably not!
I came to this site because of the pictures! I like them. I really didnt want to comment. I just wanted to grab a nice picture and GO! Then I discovered that I had a chance to interact with the Artists who create them, WOW! This is a BONUS! There have been great Artists with lousy pictures, and there have been great pictures with lousy Artists. WOW! thats balance. I wish I could comment on them all, but I cant comment on them all, so I comment on pictures when I have time, and only if they catch my interest. Most of the time there are so many great pictures that catch my interest, I just dont have time to comment on them all. So I am forced to pick one or two and provide my two cents worth.
In the Discussion Board there is a great tool anyone can use, it called "Request for Comment" (wouldn't all this be hard to read without a caps key?) of course it would! In the last two weeks there has only been one request for comment. In the last 25 requests 23 have had replies. That comes to 92% reply factor, not bad.
Who deserved comment priority? the New Members just because they are New? or Regular Members just because I recognize their style? How about Female? Male? Senior Citizens? Postal Workers? Eskimos? the list could go on and on. I dont think its wrong to comment only on friends photos. I dont think it arrogant for not commenting on New Members pictures.
Whats fair to me? I dont care if you are a New Senior Citizen, or a Snob Artist. If a picture catches my eye, I will make comment on it. You may be an Old Goat by the time I get around to commenting on you. But if time allows I will comment. If you wish a comment before you get old, there is another great tool on this site, the PM (personal message) Use It!
I wish I could continue to comment, but there are chores that need to be done, my daughter is upset with me for spending her inheritance, and my wife has hit me over the head with the mouse for spending too much time on the computer. Now Im kinda messed-up and got a headache . . Bye
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The worst type of Photo is one that is not viewed!
::tigger3
03/01/09 1:27 PM GMT
I think the idea of incorporating the suggestions for an image into non-members requests for votes is a good idea. Like Lyn said you could decrease the required number just a bit, but add helpful tips on the new members images. I do offer comments and suggestions but probably not enough. I do find that sometimes with younger people they do not take the comments for what it is meant to be and just come back and say "Well I like It" this has happened to me before. I just try to be careful of how I word my suggestions and most of the time I don't get any rude comments back. I do want to add though that I have seen some very poor images when asked to comment to the point of not knowing really what to say. :( Sometimes I have taken the chance to comment on the poor image and sometimes I don't. Tom, is so right though about some images not getting anymore than 1 0r 2 comments, maybe ask members also for some suggestions on images but not as many as non members. I see this thread as a very positive thread.
=^..^= sandi ♪
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Nature in all her glory is my uplift on life and so is my love of photography. sandi ♪ ♫
+purmusic
03/01/09 3:56 PM GMT
Well, that's it ... something needs to be done! And now!

Come on people, we need to get Jerry back in the good graces of his daughter (depriving the man of her meatloaf is a sin, in and of itself)!

(*passes round the hat ...*)

... ...

... ...

Right, I can take care of the other stuff that is plaguing Jerry's physical well-being at this current time (aside from the aforementioned growling stomach at the thoughts of a culinary existence without ... meatloaf) ... no worries.

(*hands Jerry a couple of extra-strength Tylenols*)

:o)
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"An eye for an eye, and soon the whole world is blind." - Mahatma Gandhi
.Tomeast
03/01/09 9:45 PM GMT
When I started this thread I felt like I wanted to shout a little too.I showed poor judgment in choosing the title for thread for sure.Therefore, I can`t and won`t jump down anyone's throat for their response.I think that I made my point however and stand behind it.Making only non-Cadre users comment on new images implies that once you are a paying member, you do not have to show any consideration with comments.Again, I was just asking people to take some time and show some consideration when new people post images.
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::LynEve
03/01/09 10:26 PM GMT
A quick look at the most active members list shows a wide range of voting numbers and comment content.I have not gone so far as to check how many listed are Cadre members but I would imagine the majority of them that are do indeed comment and show consideration to old and new members alike. My suggestion for comments to be obligatory for images voted on would include all members, not just non cadre members.
I agree it is wrong to comment only comment on friends images but I think the number that exclusively do this would be comparitively small.
The size in kb of comment content is of little significance - very often a short concise comment/ctitique can be of as much, if not more, value than a long convoluted comment which on occassions bears little relevance to the image as such.
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The question is not what you look at, but what you see ~ Marcel Proust
::tigger3
03/01/09 10:41 PM GMT
Why we cannot start a thread and keep it at a good pace and not fly off, I just don't understand. That is why I don't comment very much on the discussion board. A good suggestion was made and why not just give thoughtful consideration and then comment. I have welcomed new people to the site and offered helpful advice before but I will make every attempt to do so more. =^..^=
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Nature in all her glory is my uplift on life and so is my love of photography. sandi ♪ ♫
.Jay_Underwood
03/09/09 3:25 AM GMT
I agree that we all could put in more effort and try to not be so snobby on here. (That's what it boils down to.)
Thanks.
Have a good day.
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Open up your mind and go your own way.
.oksyl
03/09/09 7:31 PM GMT
Jay - Hi! I am the aviator with the missing nuts and bolts. I just had to write and tell you, I was rolling on the floor laughing as I was reading your comment. You used the words "arrogance going on here" "cult following" "and if you have enough time to get back to each one of your comments and thank that person. I try to do that, but often fail getting back to even a few people" then you said "try to not be so snobby" not to mention what you said about me and my fabulous avatar. You know what I think the definition of arrogance is: "DO AS I SAY, NOT AS I DO" Snobby people dont roll on the floor laughing, they only make comments about other people. :) <---look did you see that, I even put a little smiley face there, to prove I still laughing. And how can I not Thank You for noticing my personality. In a world where we all strive to be different and individuals, you noticed my efforts. Thank You Oh so much. :)
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The worst type of Photo is one that is not viewed! - Jerry
.oksyl
03/09/09 7:49 PM GMT
To everyone else - in High School I learned that in the construction of any writing, there is a beginning, a middle and a ending. Mrs Palmer my English teacher taught me that. If she were still alive she would be so happy that one of her students listened to her instruction. In Speech class I also learned that most people only remember the beginning and the ending of any comments. Based on the above comments by others, I believe this to be so true. It seems they only remembered the first and last thing I said. How could anyone possibly take such absurd comments I made in my beginning or ending statement seriously. What I wrote in the middle is what I meant. If you disagree with someone, say so. Also if you are speaking to any certain individual, show respect and print their name. I do. I have been doing this for a long time. I believed if no name was typed in, then the comments made were intended for the general audience, and not towards any one person. "Dont sweat the small stuff" I feel all comments are made in a natural speaking voice, and intended not to be offensive. If they SEEM to be offensive, ask the author, what he or she meant by their statement. There is a great opportunity to use the PM. Its too darn bad some people get offended. Then please be direct, speak up and dont degrade someone else, just because they expressed their opinion. :)
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The worst type of Photo is one that is not viewed! - Jerry
.oksyl
03/09/09 10:12 PM GMT
Jay - why did you remove your comments? Was it something I said? :) :)
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The worst type of Photo is one that is not viewed! - Jerry
.Tomeast
03/09/09 11:33 PM GMT
I had hopes that this thread that I created would go away because it is a bit of an embarrassment.I returned to better explain my thoughts and to rephrase my wording the last time.I believed that it was understood.I don`t know what Jay said so I don`t really get the gist of what you are saying Jerry.I want to get back to commenting on photos here.I suppose that time here at the "circus maximus", created from threads like these, are entertaining and a healthy diversion.Not so for me.
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.Jay_Underwood
03/10/09 12:19 AM GMT
WOW.. This has gotten good. Hey Mr. "Aviator".. May I be "Direct" and call you that? Or so you don't get confused, Mr. Oksyl.
I removed part of my peice on the whole thing because I felt it was too long, and I was starting to get "arrogant" myself. All I wanted to do was be short and sweet, so I back tracked and took out what I felt was necissary. (My 2 cents.) I got rid of it before anyone else had replied, or so I thought. As for having to do with anything you said..? No, not at all. As a matter of fact I forgot all about ya, until I came back and now I see you are screaming up a storm about literature and how your English teacher would be proud of you. Is that why you got off on a rant about your CAPS Key? "ROFL" Well I'm glad you found the caps key, and I hope you put those nuts and bolts back where they go too. Screw them down right tight. Make your Tech. Ed teacher proud of you as well!

I do have to admit, you had me laughing when you started talking about postal workers and eskimos. :D < oh look, it's a smile!!
Lets not get "POSTAL" on here. This will be the last time I check this thread, so go ahead and speak to me through the PM if you wish. I am being as direct as I want to be.

"Circus Maximus" has closed.
"don't sweat the small stuff" - I like that.
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Open up your mind and go your own way.
.oksyl
03/10/09 2:43 PM GMT
Whats important here? - importance is not in who you are, what you did or what you say. The importance is not in your work or your views, its in who you become. How you have changed from your efforts, that what counts. I will most probably make more comments on the discussion groups. Before I do, I will always say this prayer before I start. "God please stir up the interest for me to show up. Then give me the energy to stand up. I need the courage to speak up and don't you dare forget to give me the wisdom to shut up"
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The worst type of Photo is one that is not viewed! - Jerry
+nmsmith
03/22/09 4:40 AM GMT
I've been thinking about this...

What if we had the ability to post a critique anonymously? Wouldn't that solve the problem of having them come back at you in a negative way? Wouldn't it also make it so that people would be more willing to provide critiques.

If anonymous critiques were allowed, then I also think that every member should have the ability to hide or unhide a comment on their pages (like DeviantArt does). That way, if feathers are ruffled a bit, they just have to click a button and the message is hidden. This also means they got the message, and the critique may have a positive influence on future posts.

Just a thought that might solve the whole issue being discussed here.
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::danika
03/22/09 5:27 AM GMT
Great idea Nathan. I believe giving the option to critique anonymously would work well & therefore more members would feel more comfortable with giving advice & suggestions.

For me personally receiving constructive criticism has helped me better myself ... not only in improving my own work, but to help others with giving out constructive feedback.

I think it's something worth trying.
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We make a living by what we get, but we make a life by what we give ~ Winston Churchill
.Jay_Underwood
03/24/09 8:32 PM GMT
I think that would be a great idea also. Or atleast have the option to delete a comment, as you can go back and edit comments you left. There is no option to delete "Unconstructive critisism". There is a few things that I have read on numerous profiles. Some people just have a way of rubbing you the wrong way. What about that guy who had a Negative 500 for his Karma?
Now that jerk dosnt belong here. "Constructive criticism" has helped me alot as well. It's taken lightly and I havn't been offended, but I undersatnd as artists, we are all a bit sensitive to our work. (Something to think about.)
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Open up your mind and go your own way.

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