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Discussion Board -> Non-art Website Issues -> Where has the C score gone?
Where has the C score gone?
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Post a Comment - Subscribe to this discussionOverflow mode, hiding 72 messages. [View]
Let's say that scores are eliminated altogether. It's been stated (for the most part) that they aren't used to determine permanent gallery status. What then, would everybody do? The voting booth was said to introduce us to the new works of members, some of whom are new to the site.
Some might not ever look at the work of newer members. I'm guessing that with the current system in place, with the friends list, that might not be happening as much as it should anyway. Occasionally, I've gone through the new images gallery. new image a, b, and c will be out at the same time. image 'a' might have 10 to 20 comments, image 'b', 5 or so, and image 'c', none.
Often, image 'a' belongs to a well known person on the site, 'b', somewhat known, and 'c', a relative unknown, or a "noob". My own images, for example, would receive a number of views prior to making it to the new images gallery. So, what's the point?
For real change to occur, we as a "community" need to re-think our behavior. Voting on an image, in and of itself, won't get people to see and look at new work from new members. That'll only happen with a purposeful, real effort to do so.
I've known people in real artist communities. They don't vote on each other's work, determining the "value" of a particular piece. They show, they share, they express themselves, and yes, they criticize. I'm sure a few "this sucks" get uttered, as do a few "this is great". But the meat and potatos of their voiced opinions are expressed in thought out verbal opinions.
I cringe at the "I can't" and "not me" comments when it somes to things like handing out critiques, or now, "adopting a noob". The word "expert" gets tossed around, as does, if I'm not mistaken, "professional". Almost noone is a pro here. But everyone has an opinion. Know why? Everyone, until now, voted.
So now, with voting either temporarily, or permanently eliminated, this opinion will get to be expressed at it should've been all along.. with words, not numbers.
The concern was expressed that "we" wouldn't have the necessary time to write out long comments or critiques, or to spend the time on a pic or image examining it in order to do so. That, my friends, is one of the core problems here. Quality, not quantity, should be a priority in not only commenting, but examining a person's work. In the voting booth, where someone's burning through 10 images just to be able to post one of theirs, how long do you suppose they spend really looking at each one? Or, forgetting voting for a minute, if you're so concerned with commenting on every single image on your friends list, and that's your goal, aren't you missing the point?
So. Take a deep breath, all of you. Can't get to 20 images a night? Guess what? They'll be there tomorrow. I know, "but then more stuff will be posted, and I'll never catch up". Ok, you'll be forgiven, I promise. To make up for it, go through the new images gallery, and just randomly poke through some new images, and comment on them.
:o)
Some might not ever look at the work of newer members. I'm guessing that with the current system in place, with the friends list, that might not be happening as much as it should anyway. Occasionally, I've gone through the new images gallery. new image a, b, and c will be out at the same time. image 'a' might have 10 to 20 comments, image 'b', 5 or so, and image 'c', none.
Often, image 'a' belongs to a well known person on the site, 'b', somewhat known, and 'c', a relative unknown, or a "noob". My own images, for example, would receive a number of views prior to making it to the new images gallery. So, what's the point?
For real change to occur, we as a "community" need to re-think our behavior. Voting on an image, in and of itself, won't get people to see and look at new work from new members. That'll only happen with a purposeful, real effort to do so.
I've known people in real artist communities. They don't vote on each other's work, determining the "value" of a particular piece. They show, they share, they express themselves, and yes, they criticize. I'm sure a few "this sucks" get uttered, as do a few "this is great". But the meat and potatos of their voiced opinions are expressed in thought out verbal opinions.
I cringe at the "I can't" and "not me" comments when it somes to things like handing out critiques, or now, "adopting a noob". The word "expert" gets tossed around, as does, if I'm not mistaken, "professional". Almost noone is a pro here. But everyone has an opinion. Know why? Everyone, until now, voted.
So now, with voting either temporarily, or permanently eliminated, this opinion will get to be expressed at it should've been all along.. with words, not numbers.
The concern was expressed that "we" wouldn't have the necessary time to write out long comments or critiques, or to spend the time on a pic or image examining it in order to do so. That, my friends, is one of the core problems here. Quality, not quantity, should be a priority in not only commenting, but examining a person's work. In the voting booth, where someone's burning through 10 images just to be able to post one of theirs, how long do you suppose they spend really looking at each one? Or, forgetting voting for a minute, if you're so concerned with commenting on every single image on your friends list, and that's your goal, aren't you missing the point?
So. Take a deep breath, all of you. Can't get to 20 images a night? Guess what? They'll be there tomorrow. I know, "but then more stuff will be posted, and I'll never catch up". Ok, you'll be forgiven, I promise. To make up for it, go through the new images gallery, and just randomly poke through some new images, and comment on them.
:o)
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Please, even if you don't visit my gallery, check out my "Faves".I've left them intact since day "1", and would like it if every image there got the attention they deserved.
Rob, I only know how long I spend on each one when I vote so can not speak for anyone else but I believe I am not alone in the way I contribute here. I most certainly do not burn through 10 images to post one of mine - after all I dont have to vote on ANY. I have approx 10 on my friends list I comment on regularly - they are on my list because I particularly enjoy their work, but that does not prevent me from commenting on the work of others - many discovered in the VB. I sometimes spend an hour or more on 10 votes, by the time I look at them further and perhaps leave a comment - and if that is not enough then I am sorry, but I do have a job to go to.
You say you cringe at expressions of not wanting to adopt a noob - and with all due respect - voting on an image is not the same thing at all as guiding and mentoring someone else. Anyone can adopt a noob at any time - maybe some do already.
Go look at the list of new artists on other stuff on a regular basis - you are correct not many people bother to comment and of course a more well known longer standing member gets more comments - how could it be otherwise - they are on friends lists and their work is enjoyed by the people who have made them friends. Through the VB I am still, after 3 years membership, discovering artists I have not encountered before, old timers as well as noobs. I imagine most are like me and if a new commenter appears on one of our images we go to that persons gallery and view it, perhaps leave a comment - and it works both ways, there are many ways of increasing ones circulation but most of mine come through the VB.
Sorry I refuse to take a deep breath and I wont adopt a noob.
Take away the VB and rely on just comments and I believe the quality of comments will not change significantly enough to make much difference. Those who comment effectively now will continue to do so - those who dont, won't.
I saw an image in the VB today I gave it a 2 - a rare occurance - yes I could have gone to the persons page and commented on it - indeed I did go to the page but there was absolutly nothing I could have said that would have been of any help, I did not like understand or even know what the purpose of the image was as no description was given. Maybe it would end up with a high c-index, who knows, but at least I was able to be honest in my evaluation in the VB - having to say something constructive would have been an impossibility.
I think Sandi (Tigger3) is right - things do appear to be getting or about to be getting complicated.
I would like to say a big thank you to all those whose images of all genres I enjoy and learn from - just as I did the first day I came accross this site - I have learned heaps, now have a lifetime hobby, and for that I am grateful. Because of that I dont mind 'great image', 'not one of your best' or 'this is terrible' type comments. They help too, as well as the in- depth and patient instruction I have had from those able and willing to give it - much goes on behind the scenes here in the way of help. Most of us who have received help, whether it be with evaluating an image, use of an editing program, or simply what the knobs on a camera are for are willing and happy to give help to others - as far as our ability lets us.
Another thing I have learned - is that it is probably very wise to stay out of these discussions.
They waste valuable voting time
:-)
You say you cringe at expressions of not wanting to adopt a noob - and with all due respect - voting on an image is not the same thing at all as guiding and mentoring someone else. Anyone can adopt a noob at any time - maybe some do already.
Go look at the list of new artists on other stuff on a regular basis - you are correct not many people bother to comment and of course a more well known longer standing member gets more comments - how could it be otherwise - they are on friends lists and their work is enjoyed by the people who have made them friends. Through the VB I am still, after 3 years membership, discovering artists I have not encountered before, old timers as well as noobs. I imagine most are like me and if a new commenter appears on one of our images we go to that persons gallery and view it, perhaps leave a comment - and it works both ways, there are many ways of increasing ones circulation but most of mine come through the VB.
Sorry I refuse to take a deep breath and I wont adopt a noob.
Take away the VB and rely on just comments and I believe the quality of comments will not change significantly enough to make much difference. Those who comment effectively now will continue to do so - those who dont, won't.
I saw an image in the VB today I gave it a 2 - a rare occurance - yes I could have gone to the persons page and commented on it - indeed I did go to the page but there was absolutly nothing I could have said that would have been of any help, I did not like understand or even know what the purpose of the image was as no description was given. Maybe it would end up with a high c-index, who knows, but at least I was able to be honest in my evaluation in the VB - having to say something constructive would have been an impossibility.
I think Sandi (Tigger3) is right - things do appear to be getting or about to be getting complicated.
I would like to say a big thank you to all those whose images of all genres I enjoy and learn from - just as I did the first day I came accross this site - I have learned heaps, now have a lifetime hobby, and for that I am grateful. Because of that I dont mind 'great image', 'not one of your best' or 'this is terrible' type comments. They help too, as well as the in- depth and patient instruction I have had from those able and willing to give it - much goes on behind the scenes here in the way of help. Most of us who have received help, whether it be with evaluating an image, use of an editing program, or simply what the knobs on a camera are for are willing and happy to give help to others - as far as our ability lets us.
Another thing I have learned - is that it is probably very wise to stay out of these discussions.
They waste valuable voting time
:-)
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The question is not what you look at, but what you see ~ Marcel Proust
"of course a more well known longer standing member gets more comments - how could it be otherwise - they are on friends lists and their work is enjoyed by the people who have made them friends."
That, Lyn, is what I'd call a double edged sword. Yes, it's great to have friends, and to have a source of creativity in said friends. That being said, what about just commenting based on what the image looks like, and not, as a first priority, who posted it?
"Through the VB I am still, after 3 years membership, discovering artists I have not encountered before, old timers as well as noobs."
Assuming for a moment that the VB's door gets padlocked, then what? Aren't you, and by extention "we", going to still do exactly that? Do we really need the activity of assigning a numerical value to images in order to view them?
And the friends list. Let's say that gets shut down. Or, since I'm speaking in hypothetical terms, suffers a month long technical breakdown of some sort. (huge hint to a certain big *eye out there) Wouldn't you still seek out work by your friends by visiting their galleries, and browse through works throughout the site?
As for "taking a deep breath" and "adopt a noob", I'm hoping they aren't exclusively codependant. So please, do at least take a deep breath, be calm, be happy, and try to explore new, and sometimes difficult and challenging ideas and concepts. It really could turn out to be a good thing, if nothing else, than as a learning experience.
Skirmishing over the fine points of a certain issue, like how many votes an image gets before archiving (see? already one problem solved by no more voting :P) or what images do or don't belong in the Perm gallery, can very easily lead one to lose sight of why we're all here. Two words. Artist, and community.
Take a moment, and let that sink in. Seriously.
And yes, please do take a deep breath.
:o)
That, Lyn, is what I'd call a double edged sword. Yes, it's great to have friends, and to have a source of creativity in said friends. That being said, what about just commenting based on what the image looks like, and not, as a first priority, who posted it?
"Through the VB I am still, after 3 years membership, discovering artists I have not encountered before, old timers as well as noobs."
Assuming for a moment that the VB's door gets padlocked, then what? Aren't you, and by extention "we", going to still do exactly that? Do we really need the activity of assigning a numerical value to images in order to view them?
And the friends list. Let's say that gets shut down. Or, since I'm speaking in hypothetical terms, suffers a month long technical breakdown of some sort. (huge hint to a certain big *eye out there) Wouldn't you still seek out work by your friends by visiting their galleries, and browse through works throughout the site?
As for "taking a deep breath" and "adopt a noob", I'm hoping they aren't exclusively codependant. So please, do at least take a deep breath, be calm, be happy, and try to explore new, and sometimes difficult and challenging ideas and concepts. It really could turn out to be a good thing, if nothing else, than as a learning experience.
Skirmishing over the fine points of a certain issue, like how many votes an image gets before archiving (see? already one problem solved by no more voting :P) or what images do or don't belong in the Perm gallery, can very easily lead one to lose sight of why we're all here. Two words. Artist, and community.
Take a moment, and let that sink in. Seriously.
And yes, please do take a deep breath.
:o)
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Please, even if you don't visit my gallery, check out my "Faves".I've left them intact since day "1", and would like it if every image there got the attention they deserved.
"what about just commenting based on what the image looks like, and not, as a first priority, who posted it? "
Who posted it is never my first priority. As I said I have a small group within my friends list that I regularly comment on - without precluding the images of others - as I explained. You are on my friends list - I do enjoy your work - but do I comment on each of your posts - no, because I know you do not like useless comments, so I dont waste your time or mine.
I have not by any means lost sight of the two words Artist and Community - the community aspect means a lot to me - as I stated in my bio thingy and it is one of the things that makes this site so special.
No we dont need the activity of assigning a numerical value in order to view images but that way we get a random selection - viewing what takes our eye will lead to viewing what we like - not broadening our outlook by that activity, and less viewing of less impressive images.
I am not averse to change and challenge - but also think if it aint broke dont fix it - and there are those that think it is broke and those who think it aint.
I have taken a shallow breath but will not be applying for a noobsponsorship positon.
It is after 3 am here - just have time to now go into my c-control and view my numbers - I miss them.
Who posted it is never my first priority. As I said I have a small group within my friends list that I regularly comment on - without precluding the images of others - as I explained. You are on my friends list - I do enjoy your work - but do I comment on each of your posts - no, because I know you do not like useless comments, so I dont waste your time or mine.
I have not by any means lost sight of the two words Artist and Community - the community aspect means a lot to me - as I stated in my bio thingy and it is one of the things that makes this site so special.
No we dont need the activity of assigning a numerical value in order to view images but that way we get a random selection - viewing what takes our eye will lead to viewing what we like - not broadening our outlook by that activity, and less viewing of less impressive images.
I am not averse to change and challenge - but also think if it aint broke dont fix it - and there are those that think it is broke and those who think it aint.
I have taken a shallow breath but will not be applying for a noobsponsorship positon.
It is after 3 am here - just have time to now go into my c-control and view my numbers - I miss them.
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The question is not what you look at, but what you see ~ Marcel Proust
Lyn, for the most part, my two prior threads were intended for the membership as a whole. Yes, I was also answering and addressing you, but by no means atempting to single you out, and/or offend you.
I'm just trying to re-direct the dynamic of this discussion a bit, and perhaps re-draw attention to why each of us are, or should be, here.
Whether the voting feature stays, or goes, getting back in touch with the site as a whole is never a bad thing. I just think that certain features, such as the VB, and the friends list, enable us to develop serious cases of tunnel vision.
I'm just trying to re-direct the dynamic of this discussion a bit, and perhaps re-draw attention to why each of us are, or should be, here.
Whether the voting feature stays, or goes, getting back in touch with the site as a whole is never a bad thing. I just think that certain features, such as the VB, and the friends list, enable us to develop serious cases of tunnel vision.
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Please, even if you don't visit my gallery, check out my "Faves".I've left them intact since day "1", and would like it if every image there got the attention they deserved.
Thought that this might help.
Glossary of terms for this discussion:
1) Community:
i) 'My friends that I have made on the site here.' (Definition for some.)
ii) 'The membership taken as a whole.' (Definition for some.)
2) Confused/Complicated:
i) 'I don't like what is being discussed and am against the changes suggested.' (Definition for some, as interpreted by me.)
ii) 'I don't understand how you got from what is being discussed ... to what is being discussed/debated/argued for/against ... in your post.' (Definition for me.)
3) :oP:
Indicates that a light-hearted attempt, for the most part, being made to calm some ruffled feathers.
4) Breath:
i) Suggestion to step back and examine the motivations behind one's words and thoughts. And to put the brakes on being reactive. Simply put. (Seemingly impossible, yet ... still no a bad idea.)
6) Jumping to conclusions:
i) Some of the above posts. (Definition for me. See also number two (2).)
Ie. 'I won't even consider it, even though I am unsure as to how 'it' would work.' (Since nothing has been spelled out.)
Right, off to breakfast with *caedes now.
He promised he is picking up the tab this time. We ... er, I shall see ...
:oP (<--- Note the emoticon. See also number three (3).)
Glossary of terms for this discussion:
1) Community:
i) 'My friends that I have made on the site here.' (Definition for some.)
ii) 'The membership taken as a whole.' (Definition for some.)
2) Confused/Complicated:
i) 'I don't like what is being discussed and am against the changes suggested.' (Definition for some, as interpreted by me.)
ii) 'I don't understand how you got from what is being discussed ... to what is being discussed/debated/argued for/against ... in your post.' (Definition for me.)
3) :oP:
Indicates that a light-hearted attempt, for the most part, being made to calm some ruffled feathers.
4) Breath:
i) Suggestion to step back and examine the motivations behind one's words and thoughts. And to put the brakes on being reactive. Simply put. (Seemingly impossible, yet ... still no a bad idea.)
6) Jumping to conclusions:
i) Some of the above posts. (Definition for me. See also number two (2).)
Ie. 'I won't even consider it, even though I am unsure as to how 'it' would work.' (Since nothing has been spelled out.)
Right, off to breakfast with *caedes now.
He promised he is picking up the tab this time. We ... er, I shall see ...
:oP (<--- Note the emoticon. See also number three (3).)
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"An eye for an eye, and soon the whole world is blind." - Mahatma Gandhi
*wonders where the $##@#$!!! number 5) went*
*breathes*
:P
*breathes*
:P
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Please, even if you don't visit my gallery, check out my "Faves".I've left them intact since day "1", and would like it if every image there got the attention they deserved.
Part of the deal, insofar as *caedes picking up the breakie tab ... was that I edit it out. He thought it was inflammatory.
... ...
... ...
/\ I keed, I keed.
:oD
... ...
... ...
/\ I keed, I keed.
:oD
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"An eye for an eye, and soon the whole world is blind." - Mahatma Gandhi
Can things not go back to what this site once was?....
Seems to me this is getting somewhat out of hand!...
after all, it is a family and friendly place where I 'Once' made lots of great friends!....
It is now getting so complicated and (dare I say it!) political!....
I don't think I want to be a part of it, if it goes on much longer!....
Sorry, but that is the way I feel at this present moment in time!...
Seems to me this is getting somewhat out of hand!...
after all, it is a family and friendly place where I 'Once' made lots of great friends!....
It is now getting so complicated and (dare I say it!) political!....
I don't think I want to be a part of it, if it goes on much longer!....
Sorry, but that is the way I feel at this present moment in time!...
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* To Believe in myself and have faith in my Photography *
OwdBob'sGallery
Perhaps, if you wouldn't mind, could you elaborate a bit, Bob?
Specifically, when you say "the way the site once was", and "once made lots of great friends".
What's "wrong" with the site as you see it, and how would you like it to be? Could you spare a few moments, and share your thoughts?
Specifically, when you say "the way the site once was", and "once made lots of great friends".
What's "wrong" with the site as you see it, and how would you like it to be? Could you spare a few moments, and share your thoughts?
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Please, even if you don't visit my gallery, check out my "Faves".I've left them intact since day "1", and would like it if every image there got the attention they deserved.
I do get the feeling that this is somehow 'political'. When some in my state want to pass an unpopular law and it gets voted down, they just re-introduce that law over and over again until they push it into legislation. Here I feel that some are trying to change things more to their liking and there are a body of us who happen to like things more or less the way they currently are because they work, have a positive effect and make us happy.
Some are 'unhappy' with the way the site is now, have been for a long time and have even left and returned. I think the mods are of different minds on this too. (VB and commentary).
Everything here is volutary (mostly). If you start introducing new dos and dont's when people are mostly happy, then you create upset and confusion.
Ms. LynEve makes some very valid points all along the way in these discussion groups and I think her ideas should be given consideration. Also, this may not be accurate, but it has been pointed out that it seems that more men oppose the index than women.
There now, someone will take offense at what I just said about 'men', but I said it for a reason. It is because much is presumed in these comments about the motivations of the rest of us. I shouldn't have to defend myself if I don't view the works of newbies or visit the new image page. Caedes, in his wisdom, made that voluntary. I do both of those things, but I don't feel I need someone directing my actions and choices in doing so.
I think if you are a newbie and you post enough and your work shows promise or is good already or you ask for tips from others, you do become more noticed and improved. I know a newbie on here personally and that person's work has been noticed and commented on and encouraged and I know he is not very vocal about others work because he has more difficulty analyzing others work and commenting in general.
I think there would be 'fewer' newbies on here if they were required to do some of the things that are currently being proposed.
Some are 'unhappy' with the way the site is now, have been for a long time and have even left and returned. I think the mods are of different minds on this too. (VB and commentary).
Everything here is volutary (mostly). If you start introducing new dos and dont's when people are mostly happy, then you create upset and confusion.
Ms. LynEve makes some very valid points all along the way in these discussion groups and I think her ideas should be given consideration. Also, this may not be accurate, but it has been pointed out that it seems that more men oppose the index than women.
There now, someone will take offense at what I just said about 'men', but I said it for a reason. It is because much is presumed in these comments about the motivations of the rest of us. I shouldn't have to defend myself if I don't view the works of newbies or visit the new image page. Caedes, in his wisdom, made that voluntary. I do both of those things, but I don't feel I need someone directing my actions and choices in doing so.
I think if you are a newbie and you post enough and your work shows promise or is good already or you ask for tips from others, you do become more noticed and improved. I know a newbie on here personally and that person's work has been noticed and commented on and encouraged and I know he is not very vocal about others work because he has more difficulty analyzing others work and commenting in general.
I think there would be 'fewer' newbies on here if they were required to do some of the things that are currently being proposed.
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I agree with Bob, I am looking forward to his answer to Rob's question.
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If you wish to purchase framed photos, prints or greeting cards of my work please visit my website .http://www.redbubble.com/people/ziggy7
i totally agree with bob! we were all newbies at one point. somehow we got along by posting, commenting, etc. we have improved probably on our own perhaps listening to what our contemporaries have had to say. i, for one, have sought out help from those i consider expert in certain areas. i don't think that full on mentoring is what this site was meant to be about. i could go on and on but in reality i think that owd bob has hit the nail directly on the head.
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AVATAR BY PJ...............
i am always extremely grateful for the kind comments and suggestions that you make.
Please Visit My Gallery
We were 'all' newbies at one stage when joining!...and each of us built up our own galleries with the work that we enjoy and hopefully, others do!...
In the past we used to 'amble' along in our own happy way and enjoy each others 'company'!....
Personally, I may be guilty of not commenting as much as I should!...but that is a prerogative we all have! .. and in my own case, as many of you know...it has been a health issue!...
That said, the past few months, Caedes is just not the same as it once was!....
Cindy has said most of what I think too!...and I don't take offense at her use of the word 'Men'...we are all supposed to be equal on this site...no one better that the other!
Just sit back and reflect how this site was 6-9 months ago!....
A hell of a lot better than it is now!....
As my owd granpa used to say....
"Why change something that is not broke"!!!!!!
In the past we used to 'amble' along in our own happy way and enjoy each others 'company'!....
Personally, I may be guilty of not commenting as much as I should!...but that is a prerogative we all have! .. and in my own case, as many of you know...it has been a health issue!...
That said, the past few months, Caedes is just not the same as it once was!....
Cindy has said most of what I think too!...and I don't take offense at her use of the word 'Men'...we are all supposed to be equal on this site...no one better that the other!
Just sit back and reflect how this site was 6-9 months ago!....
A hell of a lot better than it is now!....
As my owd granpa used to say....
"Why change something that is not broke"!!!!!!
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* To Believe in myself and have faith in my Photography *
OwdBob'sGallery
I agree with Cynlee in that we all were once newbies and to become more a part of the site we had to start becoming more active in commenting and being proactive. I personally invited someone to this site just a couple months ago and he has become very noticed because of how proactive he is. The fact of the matter is you are as popular on this site as you want to be, but you have to want to be. The more I read this discussion the more I realize that the only thing that needs to change is our own attitudes. This site is fun to post to, and if you show that you have an interest in others than they will show an interest in you. I personally have found more artists by checking out those whom have commented on my work... Food for thought
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Tim...
Wow, the eternal debate continues...so much discussion on the c-index in the past was against it and now it is missed...I think if I were caedes I'd be just about ready to tear my hair out...they don't want it, they do want it...in the end it's his site and he can choose to do what he wants with it and we should all be content with that decision as an agreement to belonging to this site...should he have the desire to please the membership and all the varying opinions on this, perhaps we should have a vote and let the majority rule, much like we vote on contest images...just a spur of the moment idea...personally I don't care whether we keep it or not...if it is permanently discontinued I can always check my control panel if I want to see the numbers and I do think the c-index is flawed and always will be just by it's very nature, for reasons previously covered and maybe a few that haven't but as a creature of habit I must confess it seems odd now that it's missing and whether the numbers are high or low I just take the attitude, you win some, you lose some...as the membership continues to grow and change it seems this will always be an issue for some unless a vote on it or some type of statement is made that this is how we do things here, like it or not...I don't quite agree that "...of course a more well known longer standing member gets more comments - how could it be otherwise..."...I've been here a few years now and at one time I spent literally hours every day on the site, commenting, getting comments, and sending back thank you's...I originally thought the friends list a great addition until it became even more time-consuming, in fact, overwhelming to the extent I did away with mine...my gallery has undergone many changes over the years and I don't have the time I once did to participate in commenting etc. so I have noticed a drastic change in how much attention my images get and have noticed this is a trend that happens to other 'older' members as well...adopt a noob, a great idea, providing it is strictly voluntary...some may not have the time or inclination to do so and that should be respected, in fact, some noobs may not want to be adopted or need to be as some new members can post some really fine work...perhaps I run contrary to many but I do tend to hit the new images when I first log in, not so much looking for wallpaper but just to see what's new, who's doing what, what new member may have joined etc. and time permitting, I will zero in on what catches my attention, good, bad, or otherwise, comment accordingly, and maybe save as wallpaper, regardless of whether that person is new, well known, or otherwise...it is only occassionally that I sort images according to c-index and then only out of curiosity, not as a prerequisite to what I may choose for my own desktop wallpaper...and now, I am once again, out of time.
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I can resist everything except temptation. Oscar Wilde
So, if this index matters to some and not to others, then there really is no harm in leaving it as is. Right?
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'if it is permanently discontinued I can always check my control panel'
Pat, you couldn't because if the c-i is gone it will be because the voting has also gone - you will have no numbers to check :)
It seems that by joining in a discussion the feeling is that those who do are somehow against everything - change etc. If there were no opinions there would be no discussion.
tweir's comment above says it all really - the only thing I would question there is the use of the word 'popularity' Not sure what I would substitute for it. Really, one gets as much out of this site as what one puts in - simple really.
As for the friends list taking up an inordinate amount of time - that also is in our own hands. Anyone who adds me to their friends list I tell at the outset that I do not make a practice of thanking them for each and every comment they make - never had anyone complain about that. Nor do I expect them to thank me.If there is something relevant that needs to be replied to then I do - but I do not feel a compulsion to spend time doing that. Looking at my User Info page the majority of entries there are from members not on my friends list.
Some posts here may as Les suggested, appear reactive - maybe some are but most I think have had much thought put into them.
When does a discussion turn into an argument ? The much maligned c-index seems to be the main bone of contention.When we joined up here we accepted that was the way the site worked, whether we liked it or not. just as any changes will be accepted (or not) Discussions of this type help everyone to examine their own reasons and motives for being here.
Can't be bad?
Pat, you couldn't because if the c-i is gone it will be because the voting has also gone - you will have no numbers to check :)
It seems that by joining in a discussion the feeling is that those who do are somehow against everything - change etc. If there were no opinions there would be no discussion.
tweir's comment above says it all really - the only thing I would question there is the use of the word 'popularity' Not sure what I would substitute for it. Really, one gets as much out of this site as what one puts in - simple really.
As for the friends list taking up an inordinate amount of time - that also is in our own hands. Anyone who adds me to their friends list I tell at the outset that I do not make a practice of thanking them for each and every comment they make - never had anyone complain about that. Nor do I expect them to thank me.If there is something relevant that needs to be replied to then I do - but I do not feel a compulsion to spend time doing that. Looking at my User Info page the majority of entries there are from members not on my friends list.
Some posts here may as Les suggested, appear reactive - maybe some are but most I think have had much thought put into them.
When does a discussion turn into an argument ? The much maligned c-index seems to be the main bone of contention.When we joined up here we accepted that was the way the site worked, whether we liked it or not. just as any changes will be accepted (or not) Discussions of this type help everyone to examine their own reasons and motives for being here.
Can't be bad?
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The question is not what you look at, but what you see ~ Marcel Proust
What's the general feeling from everybody about continuing to post images during this time? If there is no C-index..then is there no voting? And if there is voting, what is happening to the votes that you do cast? Should we just hang tight and wait to see what happens to the site and to the images that have been uploaded during this time frame?
To be honest....all these comments have got me scared. I really got into photography more than ever because of this site and the extra push from my wife.....Even spent money on a new camera. I don't mind change....but the way most of you are talking, it feels like the end of times might follow shortly there after.
As a post-NOOB, I'm just concerned by all the assumtions going on. This site has brought new life to me and you guys are scarring the daylights out of me....SO STOP IT!!!. Me and my bi-polar just can't take it.....If you haven't figured it out, this Site and Photography is the best therapy that my doctor has recommended for me. it helps to keep me stable and on track. So please get this figured out before I start chasing Bright Shiny Things again.
Paul
To be honest....all these comments have got me scared. I really got into photography more than ever because of this site and the extra push from my wife.....Even spent money on a new camera. I don't mind change....but the way most of you are talking, it feels like the end of times might follow shortly there after.
As a post-NOOB, I'm just concerned by all the assumtions going on. This site has brought new life to me and you guys are scarring the daylights out of me....SO STOP IT!!!. Me and my bi-polar just can't take it.....If you haven't figured it out, this Site and Photography is the best therapy that my doctor has recommended for me. it helps to keep me stable and on track. So please get this figured out before I start chasing Bright Shiny Things again.
Paul
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Sometimes I do get to places just when God's ready to have somebody click the shutter. - Ansel Adams.......
My Gallery
I think the current status on the index has many folks jittery and perhaps a few reassuring words from Caedes might be helpful at this time.
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I told myself I wouldn't revisit this discussion but I think I should clarify...
@Lyn..."Pat, you couldn't because if the c-i is gone it will be because the voting has also gone - you will have no numbers to check."...yes, you're right...what I meant by that was the current status where the VB is still in operation but the CI is not visible on individual images but only by selecting to sort via c-index or the control panel...which might not be a bad compromise, though I still think the c-index is flawed...art is not an exact science whereas numbers are...and against what are we measuring our votes?...what standards?...I'm not sure that ABC is much better than 123 as there will always be grumbling over low scores...and yes, I agree, there's nothing wrong with healthy discussion so long as it remains respectful of one another, which hasn't always been the case in the past...in the end, you can't please everyone and I just think the whole thing tends to become much more important in some peoples' minds than need be...
@.SatCom continue voting and posting as usual and don't let any of this disturb you...it's all happened before and we and the site has survived....cheers everyone.
@Lyn..."Pat, you couldn't because if the c-i is gone it will be because the voting has also gone - you will have no numbers to check."...yes, you're right...what I meant by that was the current status where the VB is still in operation but the CI is not visible on individual images but only by selecting to sort via c-index or the control panel...which might not be a bad compromise, though I still think the c-index is flawed...art is not an exact science whereas numbers are...and against what are we measuring our votes?...what standards?...I'm not sure that ABC is much better than 123 as there will always be grumbling over low scores...and yes, I agree, there's nothing wrong with healthy discussion so long as it remains respectful of one another, which hasn't always been the case in the past...in the end, you can't please everyone and I just think the whole thing tends to become much more important in some peoples' minds than need be...
@.SatCom continue voting and posting as usual and don't let any of this disturb you...it's all happened before and we and the site has survived....cheers everyone.
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I can resist everything except temptation. Oscar Wilde
I have stated this before and for some reason I feel the need to do so again. What is wrong with the way things are now!!! It would apprear that the voting booth and the C-index should remain!! Like a lot of people have said why fix something that is not broke!!! I have to agree with this statement. However, why not work to improve what we already have!! Look at ways of making people more happy with what we already have!! Improve don't remove!!! This thing about adopting a noob, if it has to be that way, make it so we have a choice!!! The people who feel they can, can!!! and the people who feel they can't,"DON'T". For example I would not wish to, as I do not feel that I am good enough to give advise to a new member! And this only comes from the fact that it has taken me a long time to settle in here, and I know how hard it is to feel comfortable when people are saying harsh things or things we don't agree with. The way things are now, at least you get lots of ideas. Why should a new member be told by one member how things should be!! I also have many opinions about editing, I am not a fan!! Slowly I have come to know that with DSLR that there is some editing required!! The colour for one is not as good as film. I have come to understand that sometimes exposure needs a little lift! Having said that I have also worked with my camera to fix these issues!! I found settings on my camera which helps with both these problems. Editing is a personal issue, would the powers that be, want me passing on my old fashioned and stubborn ways to new members???
Oh by the way I have been a member here since about July last year. I have never before spoken up about anything. As I have not felt comfortable before!! This has only come with time and the understanding and friendships I have formed here on Caedes. It use to be a simple life here, with little or few restrictions, please bring that simple life back. Don't make people feel uncomfortable and required to work here!!! This is our escape!!
Oh by the way I have been a member here since about July last year. I have never before spoken up about anything. As I have not felt comfortable before!! This has only come with time and the understanding and friendships I have formed here on Caedes. It use to be a simple life here, with little or few restrictions, please bring that simple life back. Don't make people feel uncomfortable and required to work here!!! This is our escape!!
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I agree 100% with Lyn! We have enough rules and regulations in our daily lives, why make more! This site has worked so well for this long and has lots of members. If it's not broke don't fix it! :(
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Nature in all her glory is my uplift on life and so is my love of photography.
sandi ♪ ♫
Life on Caedes might be a little dull with no VB or C-index. I like looking at numbers to see if I agree. I've had a C rating drop 20 points overnight and sort of wonder how that happens. I don't complain or get upset but shrug it off and try something else. Bring back the index so I can reach my goal....which is post my worst picture to see if I can get a 1....kidding
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I'm not really sure where all this talk of change is coming from. Let's keep in mind that I have only replaced the displayed c-index with the characters "N/A". No decision to change anything has been made.
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-caedes
~~cancels the caterers he had hired for the 'Rolling out of the replacement of the c-index' party~~
;-)
;-)
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Three cheers for "Wonko the Sane" !
We could still have a party Rich!
We could all bring a big wooden spoon to stir things up lol
New noobs old noobs big noobs little noobs - noobs of all types most welcome.
We could all bring a big wooden spoon to stir things up lol
New noobs old noobs big noobs little noobs - noobs of all types most welcome.
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The question is not what you look at, but what you see ~ Marcel Proust
*ceades, The public display of N/A is something I am all in favour of until the voting is completed- then people are not influenced by a number in their commenting . While we have access to our own scores through caedes control for me this seems an ideal system.
Edit: on this C control subject it would be really helpful if we could sort images by date - much easier to find our latest uploads and search back for earlier ones, especially when attempting to delete older images.. I know nothing about web design so so not know how difficult this would be.
Edit: on this C control subject it would be really helpful if we could sort images by date - much easier to find our latest uploads and search back for earlier ones, especially when attempting to delete older images.. I know nothing about web design so so not know how difficult this would be.
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The question is not what you look at, but what you see ~ Marcel Proust
Eve, you might want to post your above idea here in the feature bloat/bug squash thread so it doesn't get lost! :o)
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~mimi~
Just another two cents for the pot - I am not in favor of the public N/A. I like to see how others are scored for comparative reasons. I believe that part of the overall learning experience is in the ability to review your own work and see how it compares with the successes and failures of other artists and photographers. I know I have learned from this educational tool during the time I have been a member here.
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I have to admit, that I spend less time at the site, now that I can't see what the C-I is for the pictures. When I see a picture as a featured image, I usually check to see what the score was. I do that a lot for friends, too. Also, when I look at the permanent galleries, I like to arrange the images according to the C-I, then check to see what the score were. All I can do now is guess. I also agree with casechaser, (John) and his thoughts above.
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Kiss me whether I'm Irish or not
I would agree with that too - I am lost without those little numbers but do you not think it is a good idea to not publish until the final voting score is reached? By that time most comments have been made. I try not to be influenced by a progress score when I comment but sometimes it is more difficult to mention a fault you perceive in an image when the score is a high one, and you doubt your own judgement.
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The question is not what you look at, but what you see ~ Marcel Proust
Caedes I do hope you will re-instate the index and hopefully it can be done soon. It seems to have taken something away from this site. Does that sound dumb? I for one don't think so. I have noticed a big drop in image uploads and comments. I think they are waiting to see what the outcome will be. It is sort of like have no wind for your sail!
I think some reference's were made early on about the c-index and now everyone is worried and/or happy about the possible results. =^..^= sandi ♪
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Nature in all her glory is my uplift on life and so is my love of photography.
sandi ♪ ♫
I guess I do not agree that we need to wait until the final voting is accomplished. For me, I am not influenced in my comments by how well a photo is doing with the c-index. When I am commenting, I am looking at what impresses me or disturbs me about the photo. I rarely look at the c-index for that picture while I am thinking of what I want to write.
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~~Cheerfully ignores all talk of the c-index and builds a bonfire to make "Lyn-Eve Soup"...now where are those wooden spoons you mentioned /\ there, Lyn~~
~~Come one, come all...this is caedes and all are welcome!!~~
~~Come one, come all...this is caedes and all are welcome!!~~
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Three cheers for "Wonko the Sane" !
LynEve Soup eh!!....
I'll savor every wee morsal!....
Mmmmmmn..Mmmmmn!....
~~Smacks lips in anticipation!!~~
I'll savor every wee morsal!....
Mmmmmmn..Mmmmmn!....
~~Smacks lips in anticipation!!~~
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* To Believe in myself and have faith in my Photography *
OwdBob'sGallery
Peoples gettin' grumpy & hungry 'round here!!
~starts up the griddle & grabs some maple syrup~
I thought you said you wasn’t gonna bring up the pancake thing again??
Shut up, I’m typing here!!
Fine!!
8~O
We could have a pancake meter index!! 1 flapjack up to say a BIG boy order of 12 flapjacks!! The higher the stack, the better you’ve done!!
I know, I know this is unfortunately serious to some people…why, I’ll never know!! I’ve been busy in other “avenues” as of late and haven’t been clickin’ and postin’ and am still havin’ fun on Caedes and I have no doubt in a month or three I’ll be back to clickin’ away and still havin’ fun!!
C-index, V-index, Q-index, P-cake index…whatever, I’m gonna be me and have fun!!
Ps: I’ve not subscribed to this forum so if you have anything directly for me please feel free to PM me as I might forget to re-check the thread as it’s pretty much unimportant to me.
~grabs spatula and gets to flippin’~
~starts up the griddle & grabs some maple syrup~
I thought you said you wasn’t gonna bring up the pancake thing again??
Shut up, I’m typing here!!
Fine!!
8~O
We could have a pancake meter index!! 1 flapjack up to say a BIG boy order of 12 flapjacks!! The higher the stack, the better you’ve done!!
I know, I know this is unfortunately serious to some people…why, I’ll never know!! I’ve been busy in other “avenues” as of late and haven’t been clickin’ and postin’ and am still havin’ fun on Caedes and I have no doubt in a month or three I’ll be back to clickin’ away and still havin’ fun!!
C-index, V-index, Q-index, P-cake index…whatever, I’m gonna be me and have fun!!
Ps: I’ve not subscribed to this forum so if you have anything directly for me please feel free to PM me as I might forget to re-check the thread as it’s pretty much unimportant to me.
~grabs spatula and gets to flippin’~
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Why do the pictures come out square when the lens is round??
Welcome to the campfire, Randy, thanx for the pancakes !
~~Reaches over the fire to shake Randy's hand...realizes this may be a bad idea as the all the hair on his arm is singed off~~
Pull up a log and stay a while...
Anyone else ?
~~Reaches over the fire to shake Randy's hand...realizes this may be a bad idea as the all the hair on his arm is singed off~~
Pull up a log and stay a while...
Anyone else ?
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Three cheers for "Wonko the Sane" !
Well, I think we do not need to worry about the future of Caedes, the campfire will be well attended.
However, for those of us who believed we were having a conversation, and exchange of ideas concerning this site, we want our voices heard too. Not at the exclusion of the logs in the campfire, but in addition to it.
However, for those of us who believed we were having a conversation, and exchange of ideas concerning this site, we want our voices heard too. Not at the exclusion of the logs in the campfire, but in addition to it.
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Pulling a log to join you guys....I got the drinks and the hot dogs. While we are here and my Bipolar hasn't kick in, wanna tell ghost stories? I'll start.....Long ago in these very same woods, there was an old ........HEY LOOK SHINY THING AGAIN!!!!! Oh...It's just he C-index running around aimlessly.
*Mental note....do not tell stories until Meds kick in.*
*Mental note....do not tell stories until Meds kick in.*
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Sometimes I do get to places just when God's ready to have somebody click the shutter. - Ansel Adams.......
My Gallery
I know where the C score has gone..the same place as your 401K and the bank bail out money...heh!
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Campfire? That means it will be dark and a guard will be needed.
(runs for shotgun...)
Momma
(runs for shotgun...)
Momma
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@ john (Casechaser)...you are absolutley correct good Sir, the cadesian campfire is all-inclusive, there is room for all....
~~Opens a bag of marshmallows, puts one on a stick and hands it to John~~
~~Relaxes and relishes the feeling of safety of being under Momma's watchful eye~~
~~Takes the bright shiny thing away from Paul...again~~
~~Opens a bag of marshmallows, puts one on a stick and hands it to John~~
~~Relaxes and relishes the feeling of safety of being under Momma's watchful eye~~
~~Takes the bright shiny thing away from Paul...again~~
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Three cheers for "Wonko the Sane" !
No problem rich for it appears the conversation was over, anyway!
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Well, I can't say anything - I'm in the soup.
Those of you round the campfire have gone very quiet :)
Those of you round the campfire have gone very quiet :)
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The question is not what you look at, but what you see ~ Marcel Proust
Lordy lordy I go away on holiday, take my eye off the site for five minutes and look what happens! I´m still away and typing on a cr**py laptop so I'll make this brief. I'm on record elsewhere as wanting an end to the C-index so I welcome this experiment (acknowledged that it's an unintended one Caedes). I feel that the index promotes sameness with images because people (me included) perform for an audience. On Caedes the audience speaks through the C-index. Anyone who wants to tell me different, read the comments above. And that audience likes what it likes - sunsets, landscapes, flowers... That's what gets high scores (many of them well-deserved of course, I´m talking about the variety of images here not the merit or otherwise of particular subjects), so that's what people post. Understandably - what´s the point of playing to an audience that doesn´t appreciate what you're doing? If your audience doesn´t appreciate you either you give up or you perform somewhere else, right? There are lots of comments in this thread to the effect that the C-score was the only true gauge of an image. Isn't that pretty damning? Shouldn´t the true gauge be the comments you get? By way of weaning ourselves off it, shouldn´t we understand that people generally want to know how good an image is and give them an honest opinion? Instead of voting one way and commenting another?
And maybe while we´re at it we could use this pause in the C-index to encourage a greater variety of images too. I have to say I´m not sure about this 'mentor a noob' suggestion though. If anyone had wanted to mentor me when I'd joined I'd have run a mile!
There, that´s my one and only contribution to this thread. Now back to more important things. There's not much likelihood of me hearing raised voices on Caedes for at least another week over the noise of waves crashing on the beach ;-)
And maybe while we´re at it we could use this pause in the C-index to encourage a greater variety of images too. I have to say I´m not sure about this 'mentor a noob' suggestion though. If anyone had wanted to mentor me when I'd joined I'd have run a mile!
There, that´s my one and only contribution to this thread. Now back to more important things. There's not much likelihood of me hearing raised voices on Caedes for at least another week over the noise of waves crashing on the beach ;-)
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"A camera is an instrument that teaches people how to see without a camera." Dorothea Lange
Wow, this discussion has become interesting. We at Caedes have a tendency to get a bit off subject, don't we? Whatever I'm in on the campfire thing. Don't worry momma; you'll have a partner guardian, I'm bringing my BB gun. I also bring my camera, I can shoot things with that, too.. heheh.. ok, took that joke a little too far. *sits down and tries to coax the shiny thing over*
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Tim...
Well Rich (rp64) shared his bonfire HERE AND we have marshmallows and other goodies as well :) Come and get some if you like - if you're scared of the dark bring that gun totin' Momma.
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The question is not what you look at, but what you see ~ Marcel Proust
I never have really cared for the c-index, since some of artwork I've submitted that end up with high points are in my opinion...some of the dumbest, stupidest compositions I've ever created!
Good bye...and good riddance!
Good bye...and good riddance!
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"Who says the music's dyin' in the streets?...Don't know what they talk about...I like my music wakin' up the dead...Don't tell me to turn it down!!!" - Motley Crue ... Visit Jhihmoac's Gallery
Can Cuzin Jasper come to the campfire, too? He loves toasted marshmallows. Just don't eat any of the ones he makes, a cause he uses a lit cigar. YUK.
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Kiss me whether I'm Irish or not
When you click on "new images' change the "sort by c-index" to "most downloads" in the last 2 weeks. Remove the voting booth and have "anonymous critique" where the member or noob would have the option to comment and/or critique 10 images.
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If you wish to purchase framed photos, prints or greeting cards of my work please visit my website .http://www.redbubble.com/people/ziggy7
I just realized I don't need to vote anymore since it won't make a lick of sense
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In referrence to the "Noob" thing, I will in no way become involved in that. It sounds like I am going to be expected to tutor newcomers. I am not an instructor. I am not even an accomplished photographer...merely a picture taker that has fun editing pictures to try and create a "pleasing to the eye" image. I have to admit, I am not as much a student of photography as I should be, and almost everything I do is hit and miss. I would never be able to offer tips on here, as even if I showed newbies how to do something personally, I would just confuse them. Hey...that's just me, and I commend anyone that is able to instruct confidently.
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Kiss me whether I'm Irish or not
I like the idea of there not being a C Index. I think it has often been such a disappointment to others when they hope so much that they would get a higher number of votes. And others let it go to their heads I think. I for one shall always remember when a dear friend on caedes told me not to worry about the C Index, but to enjoy the good friends I've made on here, and to especially enjoy and appreciate the amounts of view and uploads that have been made from my photos. That's what matters, that people come here to a wallpaper sight and actually use our creations. Plus I personally love the comments I received on my postings, that teaches me and helps me to do better. Then there are those fantastic fractals, and photos from all over the world, my gosh it's just wonderful to be here.
I think getting rid of the C Index will help everyone have more fun and relax a bit more instead of "competing" for the scores. I've had little
PMs about people worrying about their C index. So now they won't have to worry anymore. I am not of the "more advanced" group, I don't know that much about "stuff" but I would love helping in some way for anyone who seeks it. I get lots of help myself at times, so I'd like to give some if I have it to give. Thanx for this thread...Verena
I think getting rid of the C Index will help everyone have more fun and relax a bit more instead of "competing" for the scores. I've had little
PMs about people worrying about their C index. So now they won't have to worry anymore. I am not of the "more advanced" group, I don't know that much about "stuff" but I would love helping in some way for anyone who seeks it. I get lots of help myself at times, so I'd like to give some if I have it to give. Thanx for this thread...Verena
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"Every day brings a chance for you to draw in a breath, kick off your shoes, and dance."
Oprah
The idea of voting on something is a good thing but I agree there should be categories to pick from so an honest vote is given.Someone who is not into photography probably is just going to put a number there just to be able to go ahead and be done with the voting.Vice versa with fractals and artistic designs.This kinda defeats the purpose of voting with an honest look at the image.As far as instructing people on improving there work if their images aren't getting satisfactory reviews or uploads let them start a discussion and ask.I am not a pro but am always trying to help someone when they have a question as are a lot of people here.I really enjoy what has been here for so long I hate to see it change if it's for the worse and end up with a lot of friends going somewhere else to post their work.
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For several reasons, I don't like to get involved in this discussion, but suppose I have seen a 'Sign on the wall'.
Since the discussion about whether Caedes should get rid of the C-index voting system or not, has started, the average number of users online, uploads, comments and votes have, as far as I can see, reduced dramatically.
Please quit dreaming and return to reality.
Make an end to this uncertainty by making clear soon what kind of developments one can expect in order to determine one would stay on or leave this site.
Kind regards, Cornelius.
Since the discussion about whether Caedes should get rid of the C-index voting system or not, has started, the average number of users online, uploads, comments and votes have, as far as I can see, reduced dramatically.
Please quit dreaming and return to reality.
Make an end to this uncertainty by making clear soon what kind of developments one can expect in order to determine one would stay on or leave this site.
Kind regards, Cornelius.
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Cornelius was here either to enjoy your image or say 'thank you' for your interest in my gallery. In the first case, please CLICK HERE to see my work!
I was asked by message why I don't like to get involved in this discussion.
Will give you therefore a brief explanation.
More than two years ago I've found out that the C-index system has many failings and therefore isn't that objective as it should be.
The reason is that new posts of friends are announced. One can watch those posts and then go to the voting booth. Doing it this way, one will recognize such an already watched post and the possibility exists that the score isn't the same as it would have been without knowing who has posted it.
Another possible reason for a lack of objectivity is that on Caedes different kinds of artists/photographers are participating. There is e.g. a category who like fractals and hate traditional images. One can give examples in the opposite way as well.
When one goes to the VB, one has to vote on all kind of posts whether they belong to ones taste or not. Think it's pretty hard to give a good score to a post one doesn't like. Doesn't say however that such a post is not good!!
Think another shortcoming of the system is that only Caedes 'artists', so not belonging to the Caedes 'cadre' category, are obliged to vote on at least ten posts before they can upload their own post. Cadres 'cadre' members are free to decide whether they vote or not, while I suppose that Caedes 'cadre' members have average higher photographic skills than just Caedes 'artists' (of which many of them are probably just beginnners).
More than two years ago I've brought forward my opinion on this subject in the discussion panel and did some suggestions for making the C-index system more effective: divide new posts in three main categories. After one has chosen such a category, all members should be obliged to vote. I think too that new members should have a 'settling in' period before they are allowed to. I think it should be seen as a priviledge to do so.
My suggestions were fully ignored as I had no response at all. This has given me the feeling that I wasn't taken serious.
Please don't misunderstand me. Don't say however that we should get rid of the C-index system. It's on the contrary. My opion is: please let's keep this sytem but make it more effective.
Haven't taken any decision whether I should stay or leave Caedes. Think it will be the first as taking photographs, sharing them, and talking about them with friends has become a part of my life.
But, in my honest opinion, Caedes has to make an end to the uncertainty by making clear soon what will be done with this great site.
Kind regards, Cornelius.
Will give you therefore a brief explanation.
More than two years ago I've found out that the C-index system has many failings and therefore isn't that objective as it should be.
The reason is that new posts of friends are announced. One can watch those posts and then go to the voting booth. Doing it this way, one will recognize such an already watched post and the possibility exists that the score isn't the same as it would have been without knowing who has posted it.
Another possible reason for a lack of objectivity is that on Caedes different kinds of artists/photographers are participating. There is e.g. a category who like fractals and hate traditional images. One can give examples in the opposite way as well.
When one goes to the VB, one has to vote on all kind of posts whether they belong to ones taste or not. Think it's pretty hard to give a good score to a post one doesn't like. Doesn't say however that such a post is not good!!
Think another shortcoming of the system is that only Caedes 'artists', so not belonging to the Caedes 'cadre' category, are obliged to vote on at least ten posts before they can upload their own post. Cadres 'cadre' members are free to decide whether they vote or not, while I suppose that Caedes 'cadre' members have average higher photographic skills than just Caedes 'artists' (of which many of them are probably just beginnners).
More than two years ago I've brought forward my opinion on this subject in the discussion panel and did some suggestions for making the C-index system more effective: divide new posts in three main categories. After one has chosen such a category, all members should be obliged to vote. I think too that new members should have a 'settling in' period before they are allowed to. I think it should be seen as a priviledge to do so.
My suggestions were fully ignored as I had no response at all. This has given me the feeling that I wasn't taken serious.
Please don't misunderstand me. Don't say however that we should get rid of the C-index system. It's on the contrary. My opion is: please let's keep this sytem but make it more effective.
Haven't taken any decision whether I should stay or leave Caedes. Think it will be the first as taking photographs, sharing them, and talking about them with friends has become a part of my life.
But, in my honest opinion, Caedes has to make an end to the uncertainty by making clear soon what will be done with this great site.
Kind regards, Cornelius.
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Cornelius was here either to enjoy your image or say 'thank you' for your interest in my gallery. In the first case, please CLICK HERE to see my work!
Amen !
I'm getting sick of all this
If everybody goes to their daily issues, can't we go on like we did before ?
I miss the exciting C-Index !
John
I'm getting sick of all this
If everybody goes to their daily issues, can't we go on like we did before ?
I miss the exciting C-Index !
John
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-*A Wallpaper is worth a million words - And I leave them Speechless!*- ...
~~Listens intently and nods and the appropriate spots~~
~~Hopes Cornelius decides to stay~~
Decides that personally speaking he is having a lot more fun roasting marshmallows over the campfire than worrying about whether or not the c-index will return or not.
Thinks about all the friends he has made in the short time he has been here and decides to focus on the positives and having fun.
~~Roasts another marshmallow and waits for the discussion to continue~~
~~Hopes Cornelius decides to stay~~
Decides that personally speaking he is having a lot more fun roasting marshmallows over the campfire than worrying about whether or not the c-index will return or not.
Thinks about all the friends he has made in the short time he has been here and decides to focus on the positives and having fun.
~~Roasts another marshmallow and waits for the discussion to continue~~
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Three cheers for "Wonko the Sane" !
I agree wholeheartedly with Cornelius. I would like to see the c-index return, but the VB should be structured differently. We should be able to choose the type of pictures we vote on.
(I am wondering if Rich has had one of Cuzin Jasper's cigar toasted marshmallows yet.)
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Kiss me whether I'm Irish or not
I have met some very nice friends/people here at Caedes. What the decision will be about the C-index.. I don't want to loose this contacts. After all.. the most people liked Caedes like it was. So I agree with Cornelius about making things clear. Have a good weekend friends.. Mich.
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This probably bears repeating or reiteration, quoted from *caedes' post at the start of this discussion;
"There has been no decision to permanently remove the C-index. However, I had to disable the daily c-index update because it was causing too much load on the server. The currently calculated values will still appear in your Control-Panel, but new images will not get the c-index calculated until the update script is fixed (or we decide to get rid of it)."
In short, the problems with the update script ... in reference to the C-Indexes ... is trying to be sorted.
Please be patient, I know it is frustrating. *caedes is hard at work on this, rest assured.
"There has been no decision to permanently remove the C-index. However, I had to disable the daily c-index update because it was causing too much load on the server. The currently calculated values will still appear in your Control-Panel, but new images will not get the c-index calculated until the update script is fixed (or we decide to get rid of it)."
In short, the problems with the update script ... in reference to the C-Indexes ... is trying to be sorted.
Please be patient, I know it is frustrating. *caedes is hard at work on this, rest assured.
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"An eye for an eye, and soon the whole world is blind." - Mahatma Gandhi
Other stuff:
"And this does not mean that time spent in the voting booth is futile.
No decisions have been made."
(The big 'why' this is all taking place at this moment ...)
"All this happened or is occurring presently as the load ... 'resource demands', for lack of a better term and/or descriptor ... on the site servers to update C-Indexes was too great (script that did so is being addressed) ... and caused many a lengthy delay in terms of visitors/members trying to connect, serving up imagery ... etc. ... so, the update script was disabled."
"And this does not mean that time spent in the voting booth is futile.
No decisions have been made."
(The big 'why' this is all taking place at this moment ...)
"All this happened or is occurring presently as the load ... 'resource demands', for lack of a better term and/or descriptor ... on the site servers to update C-Indexes was too great (script that did so is being addressed) ... and caused many a lengthy delay in terms of visitors/members trying to connect, serving up imagery ... etc. ... so, the update script was disabled."
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"An eye for an eye, and soon the whole world is blind." - Mahatma Gandhi
Dear Les, While patience is in play, your popping up in the thread to reiterate Caedes words and meaning is reassuring at this time.
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@ Cornelius:
"More than two years ago I've brought forward my opinion on this subject in the discussion panel and did some suggestions for making the C-index system more effective: divide new posts in three main categories. After one has chosen such a category, all members should be obliged to vote. I think too that new members should have a 'settling in' period before they are allowed to. I think it should be seen as a priviledge to do so.
My suggestions were fully ignored as I had no response at all. This has given me the feeling that I wasn't taken serious."
Not the case at all, Cornelius. Your time spent in offering up your suggestions and ideas is greatly appreciated.
The yin to that yang, or flipside to that coin ... to use another expression ... is that many suggestions are put forth by the membership.
See here, for example.
And then there are those ideas that are put forth within the context of a discussion thread under the various discussion forums.
No action or changes with respect to your suggestions made does not translate to mean, they held no merit. Simply stated.
Your time and participation is ... and always will be ... very much appreciated. Know that.
"More than two years ago I've brought forward my opinion on this subject in the discussion panel and did some suggestions for making the C-index system more effective: divide new posts in three main categories. After one has chosen such a category, all members should be obliged to vote. I think too that new members should have a 'settling in' period before they are allowed to. I think it should be seen as a priviledge to do so.
My suggestions were fully ignored as I had no response at all. This has given me the feeling that I wasn't taken serious."
Not the case at all, Cornelius. Your time spent in offering up your suggestions and ideas is greatly appreciated.
The yin to that yang, or flipside to that coin ... to use another expression ... is that many suggestions are put forth by the membership.
See here, for example.
And then there are those ideas that are put forth within the context of a discussion thread under the various discussion forums.
No action or changes with respect to your suggestions made does not translate to mean, they held no merit. Simply stated.
Your time and participation is ... and always will be ... very much appreciated. Know that.
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"An eye for an eye, and soon the whole world is blind." - Mahatma Gandhi
~~Whistles a happy song and throws another log on the fire~~
So, the talk has shifted from that which shall not be named (the c-index) to leaving the site.
If I might? Why?
~~Prepares a marshmallow for toasting~~
All of our friends are still here. All of the threads are still here. All of the art is still here. We are still able to upload said art. The only thing that is not here...is a number, which is of varying importance to various people, understood.
The future of the site is what the people who form the community will make it. Keeping the c-index, dumping the c-index, adding an 1-5 parameter, voting by catagory...none of that changes the truly unique and exemplary nature of the site itself which, to me, is a soft spot to land, friendly welcoming people, the oppurtunity to learn from those more skilled than I, the chance to welcome new people to the site...that is all still there, although perhaps a bit hidden at the moment by some of the discussion that has gone on as of late (mea culpa, which is why I am content to sit by the campfire and get back to enjoying the site and the PEOPLE that make it so great).
~~Holds his marshmallow over the fire and hopes more people choose to join him than go seek a new fire elsewhere~~
So, the talk has shifted from that which shall not be named (the c-index) to leaving the site.
If I might? Why?
~~Prepares a marshmallow for toasting~~
All of our friends are still here. All of the threads are still here. All of the art is still here. We are still able to upload said art. The only thing that is not here...is a number, which is of varying importance to various people, understood.
The future of the site is what the people who form the community will make it. Keeping the c-index, dumping the c-index, adding an 1-5 parameter, voting by catagory...none of that changes the truly unique and exemplary nature of the site itself which, to me, is a soft spot to land, friendly welcoming people, the oppurtunity to learn from those more skilled than I, the chance to welcome new people to the site...that is all still there, although perhaps a bit hidden at the moment by some of the discussion that has gone on as of late (mea culpa, which is why I am content to sit by the campfire and get back to enjoying the site and the PEOPLE that make it so great).
~~Holds his marshmallow over the fire and hopes more people choose to join him than go seek a new fire elsewhere~~
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Three cheers for "Wonko the Sane" !
Cornelius, before a log from the fire is thrown my way, I just wanted to let you know that I agree with you. This has been a very successful site and part of the excitement in dropping in is seeing and reading what your peers think of your work. Keep the CI, nudge it here and there, and forget about assigning members duties to perform.
I think it is a privilege to vote in the VB. I enjoy doing it as often as I may. It allows me to see and compare. I think making it mandatory for non-members to vote before they may upload is wrong and that is one place I would suggest a change. Leave voting to those who want to vote. When you force action, you do not always get what you were hoping for. Make voting optional to everyone and I think you will get better results. Just my 2 cents again (I hope I haven't broken a dime yet - that is all I have on me ;).
I think it is a privilege to vote in the VB. I enjoy doing it as often as I may. It allows me to see and compare. I think making it mandatory for non-members to vote before they may upload is wrong and that is one place I would suggest a change. Leave voting to those who want to vote. When you force action, you do not always get what you were hoping for. Make voting optional to everyone and I think you will get better results. Just my 2 cents again (I hope I haven't broken a dime yet - that is all I have on me ;).
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I uploaded a snapshot called "Camping Out" for my sorrow to the loss of the C-index.
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Diane, the c-index isn't gone. This has to do with an overload on the server to continually update the c-index. *caedes has had to disable that feature for now while attempts are made to figure out how to decrease the load on the server.
Hope this helps.
Hope this helps.
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~mimi~
OK Mimi thank you for setting me straight...I heard so many different stories I didn't know what to believe, I will delete the snapshot shortly
Thanks for the quick answer
Thanks for the quick answer
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Can some knowledgeable person please explain what an "overload on the server" means?
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Basically the way I understand it (and if I'm wrong, someone please correct me) "overloading the server" means there was more info coming in at one time than the server could handle...Kind of like craming for an exam...your brain can only hold so much. I am assuming that the daily update of the C Index for every image is more than the server (brain) can handle.
*Goes back to chasing shiny things.....wait...that's just the C Index again waiting to come back.*
Paul
*Goes back to chasing shiny things.....wait...that's just the C Index again waiting to come back.*
Paul
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Sometimes I do get to places just when God's ready to have somebody click the shutter. - Ansel Adams.......
My Gallery
The input going into the server was more than it could handle Cindy. Sort of like pouring a lot of water into a funnel....one must wait until the water drains before pouring more. The server overload could cause delays in the web page loading or the images uploading or even downloading as well as discussion threads and other info on the site.
Hope this helps you :o)
@ Diane....no need to delete your image. I attempted to clarify what I construed as a misunderstanding. :)
Hope this helps you :o)
@ Diane....no need to delete your image. I attempted to clarify what I construed as a misunderstanding. :)
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~mimi~
Overview:
"Clients and Servers
In general, all of the machines on the Internet can be categorized as two types: servers and clients. Those machines that provide services (like Web servers or FTP servers) to other machines are servers. And the machines that are used to connect to those services are clients. When you connect to Yahoo! at www.yahoo.com to read a page, Yahoo! is providing a machine (probably a cluster of very large machines), for use on the Internet, to service your request. Yahoo! is providing a server. Your machine, on the other hand, is probably providing no services to anyone else on the Internet. Therefore, it is a user machine, also known as a client."
Now the simple analogy of what is transpiring at the moment ... is to view your own pc.
Imagine this scenario:
You turn your machine on.
You open up your internet browser and start to view webpages.
You open up Photoshop.
You connect your camera to your pc and start to download images off of your camera.
You start editing an image in Photoshop ... you open another program, say your media player to listen to some music ... you start up a pc game, connect to the internet, another server, to play that game with some friends or just talk ... you .. you .. you ...
At some point, does your pc not slow down? In terms of performance?
Maybe applying a filter in Photoshop takes longer, what with all the other demands on your pc processor, RAM (memory) and hard disk drives.
You end up overloading your pc resources.
Same thing happening with the site's servers now.
Simply put, there is a processor, there is memory, there are hard disk drives for storage of data et al. The site servers communicate with your pc and direct resources to fill your requests. Be that, call up an image on a member's page ... discussion forum threads ... and so forth.
Add in a script that is used to re-calculate the C-Indexes that is asking for too much of the available resources ... and there are delays. Images get posted twice because of these errors and there are delays in processing requests (people can't connect to the site, as they are in queue in terms of the requests or demands being made) ... and so on.
That flesh out the situation ... somewhat, of course ... for you?
"Clients and Servers
In general, all of the machines on the Internet can be categorized as two types: servers and clients. Those machines that provide services (like Web servers or FTP servers) to other machines are servers. And the machines that are used to connect to those services are clients. When you connect to Yahoo! at www.yahoo.com to read a page, Yahoo! is providing a machine (probably a cluster of very large machines), for use on the Internet, to service your request. Yahoo! is providing a server. Your machine, on the other hand, is probably providing no services to anyone else on the Internet. Therefore, it is a user machine, also known as a client."
Now the simple analogy of what is transpiring at the moment ... is to view your own pc.
Imagine this scenario:
You turn your machine on.
You open up your internet browser and start to view webpages.
You open up Photoshop.
You connect your camera to your pc and start to download images off of your camera.
You start editing an image in Photoshop ... you open another program, say your media player to listen to some music ... you start up a pc game, connect to the internet, another server, to play that game with some friends or just talk ... you .. you .. you ...
At some point, does your pc not slow down? In terms of performance?
Maybe applying a filter in Photoshop takes longer, what with all the other demands on your pc processor, RAM (memory) and hard disk drives.
You end up overloading your pc resources.
Same thing happening with the site's servers now.
Simply put, there is a processor, there is memory, there are hard disk drives for storage of data et al. The site servers communicate with your pc and direct resources to fill your requests. Be that, call up an image on a member's page ... discussion forum threads ... and so forth.
Add in a script that is used to re-calculate the C-Indexes that is asking for too much of the available resources ... and there are delays. Images get posted twice because of these errors and there are delays in processing requests (people can't connect to the site, as they are in queue in terms of the requests or demands being made) ... and so on.
That flesh out the situation ... somewhat, of course ... for you?
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"An eye for an eye, and soon the whole world is blind." - Mahatma Gandhi
Lil' bit more on 'how web servers work':
"Everytime, you open a browser and type in http://www.eukhost.com, have you ever thought about the process which helped the browser display the website? Has it every crossed your mind that there is a complex system which supports this activity? Here is a brief explanation of the methodology behind this easy-to-use, but difficult-to make-it-work process.
More often than not, users access a website by typing in the domain name in their browser, or from a hyperlink that brings them to the website. Lets take eukhost.com as a case-study. You open a browser and type http://www.eukhost.com into the address bar. Your browser then initiates a connection to the webserver in which the eukhost.com files are stored. The browser does this using the internet connection you have. The request for http://eukhost.com is first converted into an IP address using the nameservers which have been assigned to eukhost.com and then locating the server which has eukhost’s files.
Once communicaton has been established between the browser and the webserver; a request for the files of eukhost.com to be displayed is made. This is done using the hyper text transfer protocol (http). All the files which the webserver sends back to the browser is then converted into human readable format by the web-browser itself. Using this very process, the server can send files to multiple client computers at the same time allowing viewers across the globe to access the website.
A webserver typically stores all the files necessary to display eukhost.com’s pages in your web browser. This includes all the text files, images, graphics, video files, audio files and any other script that enables the dynamic elements of a website to function. The number of such simultaneous requests which can be serviced depends entirely on the robustness and configuration of the webserver."
Right now, the update script is the proverbial fly in the ointment. Er, something like that, lol.
"Everytime, you open a browser and type in http://www.eukhost.com, have you ever thought about the process which helped the browser display the website? Has it every crossed your mind that there is a complex system which supports this activity? Here is a brief explanation of the methodology behind this easy-to-use, but difficult-to make-it-work process.
More often than not, users access a website by typing in the domain name in their browser, or from a hyperlink that brings them to the website. Lets take eukhost.com as a case-study. You open a browser and type http://www.eukhost.com into the address bar. Your browser then initiates a connection to the webserver in which the eukhost.com files are stored. The browser does this using the internet connection you have. The request for http://eukhost.com is first converted into an IP address using the nameservers which have been assigned to eukhost.com and then locating the server which has eukhost’s files.
Once communicaton has been established between the browser and the webserver; a request for the files of eukhost.com to be displayed is made. This is done using the hyper text transfer protocol (http). All the files which the webserver sends back to the browser is then converted into human readable format by the web-browser itself. Using this very process, the server can send files to multiple client computers at the same time allowing viewers across the globe to access the website.
A webserver typically stores all the files necessary to display eukhost.com’s pages in your web browser. This includes all the text files, images, graphics, video files, audio files and any other script that enables the dynamic elements of a website to function. The number of such simultaneous requests which can be serviced depends entirely on the robustness and configuration of the webserver."
Right now, the update script is the proverbial fly in the ointment. Er, something like that, lol.
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"An eye for an eye, and soon the whole world is blind." - Mahatma Gandhi
I do understand all of what you say. May I translate that to mean that there was too much activity on the server for it to be able to handle all the requests that Caedes.net was making of it, so the script for the index upload has to be modified to take up less of that required exchange?
Oops, missed your second contribution to the thread just above. But still need answer to my question.
Oops, missed your second contribution to the thread just above. But still need answer to my question.
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"Imagine this scenario:
You turn your machine on.
You open up your internet browser and start to view webpages.
You open up Photoshop.
You connect your camera to your pc and start to download images off of your camera.
You start editing an image in Photoshop ... you open another program, say your media player to listen to some music ... you start up a pc game, connect to the internet, another server, to play that game with some friends or just talk ... you .. you .. you ... "
Les, you been spying on me again, haven't you? Bastige :P
You turn your machine on.
You open up your internet browser and start to view webpages.
You open up Photoshop.
You connect your camera to your pc and start to download images off of your camera.
You start editing an image in Photoshop ... you open another program, say your media player to listen to some music ... you start up a pc game, connect to the internet, another server, to play that game with some friends or just talk ... you .. you .. you ... "
Les, you been spying on me again, haven't you? Bastige :P
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Please, even if you don't visit my gallery, check out my "Faves".I've left them intact since day "1", and would like it if every image there got the attention they deserved.
"May I translate that to mean that there was too much activity on the server for it to be able to handle all the requests that Caedes.net was making of it, so the script for the index upload has to be modified to take up less of that required exchange?"
Yes. You got it, Cindy.
Yes. You got it, Cindy.
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"An eye for an eye, and soon the whole world is blind." - Mahatma Gandhi
Just a thought, Les. Would it make things simpler or easier when every time a photo is voted upon, the grade 3, 5. 9 or whatever has been given to it appears below that image for all to be seen. The artist of that image and all viewers can see all the grades that have been given and can make an average of it himself/herself. No calculating by caedes - just the numbers are shown under the image every time someone votes on it. The artist can glare at the numbers or smile but he/she doesn't know who has given it!
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If practice makes perfect and nobody is perfect, then why practice?
Hmm, interesting idea, Raj ... towards the ends of lightening the server demands/loads, so to speak.
However, that said ... personally, I think/feel ... that the adjused scores are of more benefit to the members/artists.
The vagaries of the voting booth ... at times ... really don't deserve to see the light of day in my mind. Ie. Some mean-spirited soul casting a vote of '0'.
In fact, at one point in time ... one could see the literal numbers that were assigned/cast. That situation turned out or revealed itself, as per my words above.
However, that said ... personally, I think/feel ... that the adjused scores are of more benefit to the members/artists.
The vagaries of the voting booth ... at times ... really don't deserve to see the light of day in my mind. Ie. Some mean-spirited soul casting a vote of '0'.
In fact, at one point in time ... one could see the literal numbers that were assigned/cast. That situation turned out or revealed itself, as per my words above.
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"An eye for an eye, and soon the whole world is blind." - Mahatma Gandhi
i go away for a year practically and i come back and all of a sudden you change c-index
well ok not quite suddenly haha.
i think that it is cool as a unique feature of our site, but if it goes the site won't really suffer. The community aspect of this site is strong and so i see no reason for that to change at any point..
plus my new pics get hammered by the harsh critics of the voting booth anyway =S
seriously! my latest pic got 19.. the worst i have ever received and its far better than earlier pics i have on here with much higher ratings.
i think a lot of people worry too much about the c index so maybe its removal wouldnt be such a bad thing (if it indeed happens).
in any case i am happy with the fact my images on here receive way more attention than anything i have on DA. It always gives me a smile when i realise thousands of people have downloaded one of my pics (and potentially) have it sitting as their desktop screenshot somewhere on this planet.
the fact we were originally based as a desktop background site has ensured a steady stream of attention for images of a good quality that simply cannot be acheived on super-sites such as deviantart.
yup my two bits from an old-ish member
well ok not quite suddenly haha.
i think that it is cool as a unique feature of our site, but if it goes the site won't really suffer. The community aspect of this site is strong and so i see no reason for that to change at any point..
plus my new pics get hammered by the harsh critics of the voting booth anyway =S
seriously! my latest pic got 19.. the worst i have ever received and its far better than earlier pics i have on here with much higher ratings.
i think a lot of people worry too much about the c index so maybe its removal wouldnt be such a bad thing (if it indeed happens).
in any case i am happy with the fact my images on here receive way more attention than anything i have on DA. It always gives me a smile when i realise thousands of people have downloaded one of my pics (and potentially) have it sitting as their desktop screenshot somewhere on this planet.
the fact we were originally based as a desktop background site has ensured a steady stream of attention for images of a good quality that simply cannot be acheived on super-sites such as deviantart.
yup my two bits from an old-ish member
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Someone is working on it, I noticed today the images have moved around, mine is in first place now.....not that means anything to me....closes door and tries to find the camp fire everyone went to.
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If you wish to purchase framed photos, prints or greeting cards of my work please visit my website .http://www.redbubble.com/people/ziggy7
1st place? i didn't realise it was a competition.....
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A smart bomb is only as clever as the idiot that tells it what to do
Sorry, I meant in the top left corner, I think they ere being sorted by views.
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If you wish to purchase framed photos, prints or greeting cards of my work please visit my website .http://www.redbubble.com/people/ziggy7
RE: .. adopt-a-noob
I think some of you are missing a great opportunity .. ala Mr. Myagi (Wax on, Wax off) .. we need only tell our protege that the way to true butt-kicking photogenious is through the humility of doing chores around our house .. it builds character, and shutter-button musculature, and ...
wait .. who decides who's a noob
I think some of you are missing a great opportunity .. ala Mr. Myagi (Wax on, Wax off) .. we need only tell our protege that the way to true butt-kicking photogenious is through the humility of doing chores around our house .. it builds character, and shutter-button musculature, and ...
wait .. who decides who's a noob
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♪ ♫ When I grow up I wanna be an old woman...an old, old, old, old, old..old woman.. ♪ ♫
Hear, hear!
I was adopted unofficially by Keith when I signed up for a full tour and look how well I turned out. It was the proverbial 'win-win' situation.
I ... received guidance and knowledge beyond my wildest and creative dreams, Keith ... got a baker-in-residence.
(*goes back to cleaning the insides of disposable plastic straws out with pipe cleaner ...*)
(*thinks to self ...*)
'M'Lord will be happy with the outcome of this Herculean task, methinks ...'
(*takes a moment to check other items on the daily list of "things to do"*)
'Ahhh, crap ... the garburetor is clogged .. a -again?!?! ...'
I was adopted unofficially by Keith when I signed up for a full tour and look how well I turned out. It was the proverbial 'win-win' situation.
I ... received guidance and knowledge beyond my wildest and creative dreams, Keith ... got a baker-in-residence.
(*goes back to cleaning the insides of disposable plastic straws out with pipe cleaner ...*)
(*thinks to self ...*)
'M'Lord will be happy with the outcome of this Herculean task, methinks ...'
(*takes a moment to check other items on the daily list of "things to do"*)
'Ahhh, crap ... the garburetor is clogged .. a -again?!?! ...'
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"An eye for an eye, and soon the whole world is blind." - Mahatma Gandhi
Hmmm, I could use a little help with the garden, and the linen closet didn't get completely reorganized and the upstairs bath needs repainting, and....hey, maybe if I didn't spend so much time on Caedes, hmmmmm...That's it!
I think I should be a noob...
I think I should be a noob...
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does anybody else hum the song .. "Where have all the flowers gone" .. by The Kingston Trio .. when reading this thread?
no? ..
(*checks manliness barometer*)
no? ..
(*checks manliness barometer*)
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♪ ♫ When I grow up I wanna be an old woman...an old, old, old, old, old..old woman.. ♪ ♫
Sagt mir wo die blumen sind, wo sind sie gebleiben. Yes, I was humming it....you don't have to check the barometer now....
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Why can't I view the 67 hidden comments (messages) in this thread when I click on [view] above?
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I recall that issue was brought up before. I think it has something to do with the browser keeping the page in it's cache and not refreshing it? Or something...
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-Everyone is entitled to my opinion- rescope.com.au
:)PJ