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Discussion Board -> Desktop Wallpaper, Art, etc. -> What are we posting here?

What are we posting here?

::third_eye
03/19/09 6:12 PM GMT
*I ask, that whomever reads this post, read it in it's entirety before responding or reacting, thanks.*

On the site's front page, the following statement sits at the top:

"Caedes is a close community of artists, designers, and photographers who share their work through the medium of computer desktop wallpaper. Feel free to browse the galleries, comment on other's work, and even submit your own art when you're ready."


Consider this an appeal, a gripe perhaps, and a call (yet again) for all of us to really self-manage and monitor what we're posting. And to be clear, by self-monitor, I do mean self. I'm not implying that we form lynch mobs and go single out, as we might see fit, "offending posters". A number of members got caught up in that frenzy a while back, including myself, and not only doesn't it work, it was wrong.

Having said that, there really seems to be a prevailing attitude of "anything goes" by quite a few members here. I've seen some really ordinary scenery, headshots and "people pictures" that looked like they belonged in a family album, and assorted other types of images that really don't seem to line up with (important here) what is worded in that greeting statement on the home page.

I'm sorry, but over-sharpening, filling in an artificial sky, making a 5 layer frame, or any of a variety of editing "stylings" really don't compensate for a shot being, well, mediocre. Same for the Fractal side of the house. I don't know how to make a fractal, but it's pretty apparent which pieces were really thought out, and as a result really inspire.. and which ones were the result of a button-tap..or two.

I understand that the owner of the site, *caedes, wants to do as little as possible to dissuade people from sharing here. I get that. So don't go anywhere. Don't stop posting. But, c'mon, be a little more honest and selective about what you're putting up here. As a cadre member, I was able to post with, or without voting. I chose, usually, not to vote. Not out of selfishness, or a designed intent to get, and not give. I chose not to vote because most of what was appearing before me, I was seeing as 2's, 3's and 4's. I'd see the occasional higher quality image, and voted accordingly. But rather than keep dishing out what some might see as "punishment", and driving myself nuts, I stopped. I instead chose to browse the new image galleries, as well as the perms, and comment when I felt I could add something constructive.

So, while this might offend a few people unintentionally, I'm hoping it'll be seen as more of a call to order. Keep the stuff that belongs on Flickr and Myspace.. on Flickr and Myspace. In the past, I've been told that some think of me as overbearing, as a know-it-all, and obnoxious. yes, I still have that plum of a PM :o( I'm none of those things. I would just like to see this site return to the place of high quality images I've known it to be.

Please? :o)

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Please, even if you don't visit my gallery, check out my "Faves".I've left them intact since day "1", and would like it if every image there got the attention they deserved.

Comments

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::mesmerized
03/19/09 7:13 PM GMT
Don't think I could say it any better or add anything...right on, Rob...oh, I will be performing my annual spring cleaning soon just in case I am one of those offenders.
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I can resist everything except temptation. Oscar Wilde
::cynlee
03/19/09 7:14 PM GMT
You still have that PM? lol Is this site supposed to be some sort of photography museum? There is a process already in play here that weeds out the wheat from the chaff. It's called deletion and archiving. We also have the community gallery set up to accommodate the pet pics and what have you that can't really be construed as 'art'. Do you suppose that only professional photographers are going to post here?
Where do the noobies begin? If they post snaps, then it's up to the community, members and mods, to do as was suggested and help these folks learn the difference between that and a fine photo or wallpaper image.
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::third_eye
03/19/09 7:25 PM GMT
If it were only the newcomers who were posting images one might call.. subpar, then yes, I'd agree. I tend to not favor singling out artists, nor artists' images, but I assure you a large portion of the types of postings I have in mind belong to people who have been here quite some time.

The community gallery is indeed in place. Unfortunately, it's highly under-utilized. As for it being "up to the community, members, and mods" to help people understand the difference.. great words, but it happens far less than it should. More often, an image gets piled upon (often with the same members over and over again) with praise, or neutral comments.

This is not, though, a thread about critiquing of other's work. Nor is it directly, or indirectly aimed at the job the mods do. This is about... stay with me.. self critiquing, and self-moderation

Kindly respond with any additional comments adressing that issue, please. Thanks.
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Please, even if you don't visit my gallery, check out my "Faves".I've left them intact since day "1", and would like it if every image there got the attention they deserved.
::cynlee
03/19/09 7:30 PM GMT
Then maybe you should send out a mass mailing so each member has the opportunity to 'stay with you'.
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::third_eye
03/19/09 7:36 PM GMT
Ok, anyone who has anything positive to add.. feel free.
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Please, even if you don't visit my gallery, check out my "Faves".I've left them intact since day "1", and would like it if every image there got the attention they deserved.
::danika
03/19/09 8:09 PM GMT
Okie dokie ...

Rob ... your opening words are very nicely stated & I agree with you on the self-critiqueing part. For the most part I believe most of us as members are here to share our work, learn, & improve our quality of work. We all must keep in mind that there are hundreds of visitors each day looking for desktops. That is where self-monitoring our own work comes in ... I surely wouldn't expect anyone to use an image of Granny as a DT as an example. There are places such as Flickr, Photbucket, & Myspace for those type of images.

There have been recent threads on 'Is Critique Dead'. Some good good info & links there ... thanks to Les (+purmusic). I'd advice members who have not already done so take a good look at them.

I don't vote anymore therefore my work will no longer go through the voting booth. I've always have had a problem relating a number to an image ... doesn't tell me anything, but constructive criticism does. I've decided to use the time I spent in the voting booth to critique other's work where I believe it is more valuable ... if anything to the site as a whole.

As far as newbies go ... I know I was there once. It is up to the community to help them along. Hey, I remember a time when I didn't have a clue what an image editing program was ... resizing, levels, color balance, contrast, etc.

There's are alot of good tutorials floating out on the web ... I suggest do a search & give one a try. I'm currently learning how to work with layers & masks. Driving me nutz.

A little self-critiquing / self-monitoring in the end goes along ways & I believe in the end it helps to critique other's work.

Thanks for the reminder Rob. :-)
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We make a living by what we get, but we make a life by what we give ~ Winston Churchill
.J_272004
03/19/09 8:44 PM GMT
Well said Rob I agree there are a LOT of "low quality" work lately not just in photos but also in fractals..

Art is CREATIVITY, IMAGINATION & EXPERIMENTATION.. come on people use these.. think would someone on the other side of the world like to have that piece of work on their desktop?

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MY GALLERY ........... "You are not alive unless you know you are living." Amadeo Modigliani
::cynlee
03/19/09 8:45 PM GMT
My point is, Rob, that those members that you speak of are probably not going to read this thread. Maybe a better way to address the issue you introduce would be to bring it up to the individuals who are doing just what you suggest and that might generate results in accordance with what you are trying to convey, but you say that you don't like to comment on individual posts, so how will the message get across?
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::third_eye
03/19/09 8:54 PM GMT
when I said "stay with me" I was saying "don't make this about a different issue". and if you re-read my post above, I said:

"I tend to not favor singling out artists, nor artists' images"

as in, not making an example out of them. and further up, in my original post, I said:

"I instead chose to browse the new image galleries, as well as the perms, and comment when I felt I could add something constructive."

which would indicate I do indeed comment on individual posts.

So now, moving forward, please address the topic at hand, as opposed to singling out anything else in what I've already written.

Moving on...>>>>

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Please, even if you don't visit my gallery, check out my "Faves".I've left them intact since day "1", and would like it if every image there got the attention they deserved.
::cynlee
03/19/09 8:58 PM GMT
Sounds like you've already got the 'problem' dicked and I DID address the issue at hand, as you put it. As to 'moving on', sounds like a good idea. I reiterate that those for whom this is intended may never see it.
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::third_eye
03/19/09 9:13 PM GMT
Ok, so who else has something to say?
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Please, even if you don't visit my gallery, check out my "Faves".I've left them intact since day "1", and would like it if every image there got the attention they deserved.
&animaniactoo
03/19/09 9:31 PM GMT
*Blowing bubbles* LOOK! SHINY THINGS!

Okay, while I've got them distracted... this thread appears to be a call to assess oneself. Reminders are a good thing. Even for those who have heard them before. If they don't reach some of the audience, because they're in the theater next door *shrug*, who cares? If somebody feels strongly about it, they'll take notes and pass em on to the ones who don't normally attend this theater. Maybe even invite them to come over and check it out.

No big huhu here. Please keep the roaring down to a minimum, or I'll start making popcorn and taking book - and I will NOT share my winnings w/the participants.
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One man sees things and says "why?" - but I dream things that never were and I say "why not?"
::LynEve
03/19/09 10:38 PM GMT
Members will continue to post substandard images if they are not getting the message - one way to do this is in the VB, another way is by telling them by way of critique and perhaps encouraging them to inmprove- both work.

This statement

"I tend to not favor singling out artists, nor artists' images, but I assure you a large portion of the types of postings I have in mind belong to people who have been here quite some time."

- is counter productive - it casts aspersions on any one who has been here for more than 5 minutes - why not pm those members and tell them with tact that their images are crap and then at least they would know.

You post has done what it intended however - for those of us who have read it - made us consider our own efforts more thoroughly.
You also have caused some of us to ask ourselves ' Am I one of these offenders'
Not a great confidence booster.

(and I defend "5 layer frames', they often require much more work than applying an automatic plugin (which many of us can not afford to purchase)- some people even like them. To each his/her own)
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The question is not what you look at, but what you see ~ Marcel Proust
::jeenie11
03/20/09 12:28 AM GMT
i feel that for the most part each of us see things differently. what's good for the goose may not be good for the gander. what one "artist" presents with pride may be entirely different than that that another artist presents with pride. this is not about who is right and who is wrong. i hope that if one of us find something we consider unsatisfactory that we will indicate this thorough dissatisfaction with a vote, a comment and perhaps a complaint to the mods or caedes about the poor quality that certain individuals consistently upload. i would have no idea how to do some of the marvelous effects that some artists use but if that is their style, it's their choice. if a viewer doesn't care for the style......who cares! please, let people continue to upload photographs that THEY think are suitable for the site. and let the MODERATORS take care of the rest. i happen to think that the mods handle this quite capably.
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AVATAR BY PJ............... i am always extremely grateful for the kind comments and suggestions that you make. Please Visit My Gallery
::mesmerized
03/20/09 1:13 AM GMT
Well, I came back here with the afterthought of defending new members but I see that's already been addressed and it would seem that those of us here seem to 'get it' as far as self-monitoring and critiquing is concerned so I'll just leave this for your consideration...I do think that after one has been around here for awhile, gotten comfortable, experienced some successes, there is always the 'possibility' that one could get a little too comfortable and complacency or assumptions could set in, perhaps quite unawares or unintentional but nevertheless resulting in images that you know deep down could be better...it's always a good idea to take a last look in the mirror before going out the door.
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I can resist everything except temptation. Oscar Wilde
::LynEve
03/20/09 1:46 AM GMT
"So now, moving forward, please address the topic at hand, as opposed to singling out anything else in what I've already written."
--------------------------------------


Ok, Topic at hand - What are we posting here?
For most of us, the best we can.
Taking into account different likes/dislikes, level of competance/talent and reasons for posting, reasons for any participation at all, will be viewed and judged accordingly.

Which leads to the question "Why are we posting here?"
The answers to which may give some insight regarding the perceived poor quality.
As jeenie11 stated "what's good for the goose may not be good for the gander"

We learn more by example than lectures :)
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The question is not what you look at, but what you see ~ Marcel Proust
::cynlee
03/20/09 1:54 AM GMT
Now, that would be an interesting thread! WHY are we posting here? What could all the possible answers be? I'd love to hear other's responses to that question. Oops, I'm off thread again!
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+purmusic
03/20/09 2:47 AM GMT
Welllll ... I was going to take notes, however ... my pencil lead ... broke.

Anyone got a pencil sharpener?

Oh, nice ... thanks. :o)


(*tries ... tries, to sharpen his ballpoint pen ...*)
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"An eye for an eye, and soon the whole world is blind." - Mahatma Gandhi
::rp64
03/20/09 2:54 AM GMT
~~Wanders in~~

The assembled crowd roars "Norm".

Yep, all the regulars are here.

~~ ~~

Tough to argue with you Rob. If I might though...I think, perhaps, some of the frustration /\ resulted you you percieving that some wanted to single artists out, while, perhaps what they were asking was "is there a way to get the message out to those (as a group, not singularily) that are not regulars on the threads".

As was pointed out to me by someone I respect a great deal a while back...tough medium to work in here...words only. Can't read body english, tone, inflection, etc, etc...

If I'm way off the mark...never mind, if I'm way off the mark everyone will undoubtedly let me know.
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Three cheers for "Wonko the Sane" !
&animaniactoo
03/20/09 2:55 AM GMT
You know... sometimes we need to a dose of icewater to wake us up and remind ourselves as Pat said so well.

I wouldn't presume to speak for anyone else or "most" people on this subject. I know that I once posted something that I *knew* wasn't up to par to the best of my ability to do it. It was for a contest, and I was up against deadline, so I did it. I shouldn't have. Quite alright. Just a reminder to pick self up and pursue betterness moving forward (should I regain the time in the near future to start drawing again).

So. Instead of coming from the "insta-defense" reaction, why not - as has been said before - take awhile to decide if what has been said applies to yourself. And if it doesn't, don't reply. Leave it as thought for others to ponder. (and feel free to create a new thread for sideline questions you'd like to explore!)

To be clear - I don't think there's any need to "defend" anyone here - the premise of the thread is not meant as a slam, or an insult - and to take offense to it as such, is not the fault of the initiator.
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One man sees things and says "why?" - but I dream things that never were and I say "why not?"
&animaniactoo
03/20/09 3:03 AM GMT
P.S. I believe that if you read Rob's post - he is not denigrating 5-layer frames. Merely 5-layer frames on a shot that is sub-par, and will continue to remain so no matter how much editing is done to it.
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One man sees things and says "why?" - but I dream things that never were and I say "why not?"
+purmusic
03/20/09 3:11 AM GMT
"... it's always a good idea to take a last look in the mirror before going out the door."

/\ I can't tell you how many times these sage words of wisdom have saved me from embarrassment.


Btw, Pat's Canadian.

Did yous know that?

I did.

And now I am off to mass mail the membership so that everyone will be apprised.

One last f.y.i ... my name is not 'Norm -al', Rich.



(*walks away with toilet paper stuck to shoe ...*)

:oD
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"An eye for an eye, and soon the whole world is blind." - Mahatma Gandhi
::LynEve
03/20/09 3:34 AM GMT
My defence of 5 layer frames was meant as a light hearted comment.And yes, I did read Rob's post - thoroughly, digested and understood, and much of it agreed with. And no, I was not being defensive - merely joining in what I thought was a discussion. Anyone who knows my work would know that I like frames, and would have appreciated my comment for what it was.

Cold water received, message understood -this should be kept serious - no light hearted quips allowed :)
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The question is not what you look at, but what you see ~ Marcel Proust
&animaniactoo
03/20/09 3:55 AM GMT
Ah! Plz not to mizunderztand me good Ms. It iz not zat ze lighthearted quips izt unappreziated. Tiz merely ze rezponding to ze hautor's mizzive und zuggezting 'e initiate own perzonal witchhunt. Veery Veery contradictory to hiz intended poirpoze, no?

(p.z. plz to akcept mozt fuhrvent apologeez for mizunderztand defending of ze 5 layer framzz.)
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One man sees things and says "why?" - but I dream things that never were and I say "why not?"
::cynlee
03/20/09 4:31 AM GMT
Was that a rhetorical question? I do have a question that relates to the title of the thread. Would someone explain the meaning of 'par' if we are enjoined to not post 'sub'-par images I think a description would be helpful. It must follow from the implication then that there is also a super-par?
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::danika
03/20/09 5:03 AM GMT
The meaning of par ...

The standard score assigned to each hole on a golf course, or to the sum total of these holes.

Oops wrong definition.

Par ... a level or standard considered to be average or normal; an amount or level considered to be average; a standard; (performing up to par; did not yet feel up to par)

Well, when I use to golf ... I usually scored over par, so that must mean super-par. In other words it was a very 'bad / poor' score. How it applies to images? ... beats me.
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We make a living by what we get, but we make a life by what we give ~ Winston Churchill
::cynlee
03/20/09 5:18 AM GMT
That is a perfect definition of par, Sherree, but like you, it beats me too in its application to images posted on Caedes. I think what we need are clearer standards of what is recognizeable as an average or normal image and what is not in order to be on the same page in a discussion such as this one. Is there an 'average' piece of art and what does that entail? How is it different from an image that is 'above' average. Then we can better determine, using self-critique, of course, which of our images are 'below' average (sub-par) and not post them.
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::danika
03/20/09 5:32 AM GMT
Cindy ... I have no problem in distinguishing what is below average, average, or above average. If an image doesn't look good on my DT after 5 - 7 days whether I believe it below quality or I decide it is snapshot material then the image gets scrapped. Also, during this time I self-critique the image to see if there are ways to improve it. Yes, I have been successful with the latter & then went on to eventually posting the image.

A pretty simple process & I think most of us have been around awhile to distinguish what is what.
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We make a living by what we get, but we make a life by what we give ~ Winston Churchill
::cynlee
03/20/09 5:34 AM GMT
Then what, to your mind, Sherree, is 'good' art? If most of us have been around awhile and know what is what, how would that explain an increase in art postings that are 'not' good by members who have been here awhile, of which Rob makes mention?
I really and truly would like anyone to tell the true meaning of what constitutes 'good' art.
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+philcUK
03/20/09 7:36 AM GMT
Something where a modicum of real effort has been put into it from a creative or technical point of view would be a good starting point which I think is the crux of the point that Rob was making, rather than just nuking average photos gratuitously with unnecessary filtering or pushing around a few presets in CG applications.
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A smart bomb is only as clever as the idiot that tells it what to do
::casechaser
03/20/09 11:45 AM GMT
I wonder, is this is possibly an argument for and against post work? There appears to be camps for both sides of the issue of use. If we keep in mind that the final user of the artwork on this site wants pictures for his/her desktop and our work is being downloaded for that purpose, then would not the true test of minimal/massive post work worthiness be evident in the downloads, not in the opinions of competing art camps? Maybe actual downloads (if possible) should be tracked and used as a gauge for perm folders.
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+philcUK
03/20/09 12:36 AM GMT
I don’t see any real issue with post work in photography – anyone who tells you their picture has had nothing done to it is probably lying anyway whether they realize it or not as the image processors in the camera themselves do so much work on the image that it bears little resemblance to the data captured on the sensor.

No – the point is as stated I think.


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A smart bomb is only as clever as the idiot that tells it what to do
::cynlee
03/20/09 1:47 PM GMT
Again, we seem to be tossing words around about what 'good' art {photography} is. Phil says something about nuking 'average' photos. John thinks that two camps exist possibly, one that considers itself the arbiter of what is good and one that considers what the viewers consider art 'good' enough for their desktops.
Assuredly, a good art work, photographically speaking, starts with the taking of a well exposed, well composed, clear photo and then if the result isn't quite what the artist (photographer) envisioned or saw, he takes it some steps farther through cloning, curves perhaps, color adjustment, etc. so that it does meet his standard of what he sees or what he sees as beautiful and correct. Where does the photography end and the art begin or can we distinguish? Or is the 'good' art the one that appeals to the most people?
Plato says the 'good' is beautiful. Is one man's beauty different from another's or is there some universal standard for beauty or are beauty and truth the same thing?
Is art already an imperfect representation of life?

If I overdo an image in post processing and it does not have much appeal here at Caedes, will I not learn from the experience that it is not considered 'good' art? To self censor is one thing, but we don't always know if what we like in our art is going to appeal to another and that is why we post it here to find out.
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::third_eye
03/20/09 2:07 PM GMT
*I ask, that whomever reads this post, read it in it's entirety before responding or reacting, thanks.*

That was my lead-in, when I began this particular post. I have to say that I'm fairly disappointed in the level of energy, and amount of time spent, in what appears to be an effort to pick apart, and argue with fragments of what I had to say, and take them out of context.

The thread's point is this:

A fair amount of images have been posted, that could've been alot better, or perhaps could've been posted elsewhere.

That is not to say that the person or persons posting said images have no talent, nor is it an effort on my part to dictate what constitutes "art".

If my thread made someone wonder, 'well gee, could I be one of the "offenders"?', I would answer that well, perhaps. The very fact that it casts some doubt, or makes one think about what they've been posting, is the point.

While I'm not here (on the site, or in this thread) to intentionally insult anyone, or to be a "meanie", I'm not here to coddle anyone, or to be one of a number of people who show up on an image's page, and shower praise on an image that quite obviously is (for example) off-color, loaded with noise, blotched from over-editing, etc. Nor am I going to tell someone who's posted a shot that may be technically ok, but holds no real interest that it's a lovely scene.

As for contacting the "offenders", I have, from time to time, tried to offer a bit of counsel or advice. While some of it is really taken well, alot of it isn't.


I began this thread to call attention to the quality, and type of images posted in some instances. Instead of pulling apart what I'm saying, why not have a healthy discussion on just that?

I'll pass on to you, advice that was offered to me. Before hitting the "post this comment button", stop. Re-think, and re-read your words. Consider the impact they might have.

If any of you have a personal issue with me, hey whatever. But if you're allowing that to infuence your comments here, then you're really aiming in the wrong direction. I'm looking to achieve improvement of the site, through upkeep of the standard of quality of images posted. I'd urge you to join me in that endeavor.

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Please, even if you don't visit my gallery, check out my "Faves".I've left them intact since day "1", and would like it if every image there got the attention they deserved.
::mesmerized
03/20/09 2:47 PM GMT
Well, at this stage, I would say that the point has been driven home quite emphatically and we should all know by now to be a little more discriminating in what we post...I'm not sure what more could be added here without running the risk of having yet another discussion deteriorate into another 'brawl'...speaking for myself, however, I didn't need anyone to point that out to me...I have always known to take some pride in what I do AND further I have always known that sometimes there is a huge difference in the quality of what I post and sometimes there are damn good reasons for it that I have neither the time or desire to wade through...while I DO agree wholeheartedly with the intent of this thread, I would also say that we needn't be constantly beating ourselves or others up over this or we'll take all the fun out of being here in the first place.
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I can resist everything except temptation. Oscar Wilde
::jeenie11
03/20/09 3:35 PM GMT
BRAVO, Pat! you've stated your attitude (and mine) perfectly! .............................................................................................................................

"I would also say that we needn't be constantly beating ourselves or others up over this or we'll take all the fun out of being here in the first place."
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AVATAR BY PJ............... i am always extremely grateful for the kind comments and suggestions that you make. Please Visit My Gallery
::third_eye
03/20/09 3:50 PM GMT
I suppose it's necessary for me to clarify that this thread isn't a club, with which I'm attempting to pound the heads of the collective membership, but rather, to sound a rallying cry of "c'mon.. let's do better"

In that spirit, perhaps future posts to this thread can help examine how that might be achieved.

Thanks.
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Please, even if you don't visit my gallery, check out my "Faves".I've left them intact since day "1", and would like it if every image there got the attention they deserved.
&animaniactoo
03/20/09 4:17 PM GMT
Or perhaps... it can be "seen" and not necessary to really have an in-depth discussion about. Sometimes - ponderables are just ponderables. 8•)
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One man sees things and says "why?" - but I dream things that never were and I say "why not?"
::mesmerized
03/20/09 10:03 PM GMT
Um...I'm not one to start discussion threads as a rule...I seem to be better at shutting them down lately, lol...so I'll leave it to others whether the following comments/suggestions are worthwhile pursuing...clearly this one took a few wrong turns and I heartily agree with Cat that 'actions speak louder than words' in alot of cases...that said, I still see the merit in Rob's original intent which was 'self-improvement' and I think one thing we can all agree on is there is always room for improvement...perhaps if the discussion was structured something along the lines of "How can we as INDIVIDUALS improve our skills and images" or " How I would personally like to improve my skills" or "What goals I aspire to in my particular type of art"...something like that where the emphasis is clearly on 'self improvement' and not a finger-pointing session...then you might (?) have an interesting and even fruitful discussion...who knows it may even generate a few more offers of help or constructive criticism...just a final thought from me for what it's worth...have a nice weekend everyone.
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I can resist everything except temptation. Oscar Wilde
::casechaser
03/20/09 10:09 PM GMT
I like Rob's original intent, too, and, Pat, I like how you phrased it ^ above. I know I keep coming back to this site and picking up on the talents and abilities of the members. Something I truly appreciate. I have learned a lot and continue to learn. That is my nature and the nature of this wonderful site. And, what is even more wonderful is that this education is coming to us free!! We just need to open our eyes, ears, and minds to that which is before us.
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+purmusic
03/20/09 10:40 PM GMT
Heyyyyy ... look what I found!

/\ Might be germane to this discussion, perhaps?


If so, thank Ewa. :o)


Note: Yes, Lyn ... a "WIP" gallery is a possibility to incorporate some of the intentions of Rob's thread here, as well as, some of the responses.

Beat ya to it here! :oP (<--- indicates a light-hearted ... er, quip and/or retort ... tort, tart ... darn, now I am off on the 'shiny' thing ... baked goods once more pour moi ... )
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"An eye for an eye, and soon the whole world is blind." - Mahatma Gandhi
::Hottrockin
03/20/09 11:13 PM GMT
~walks into the saloon hearin' Randy Travis on the jukebox..."Diggin' Up Bones"~

Just my input...

I got through your "*I ask, that whomever reads this post, read it in it's entirety before responding or reacting, thanks.*" and thought; crap...something that's gonna take forever to read!! Who are you...Les??

Then I had to lOOk up the word "dissuade"...KISS!! This IS a "community"...that includes flunkies 'n' drop-outs to people of whom have completed their dissertations and perhaps have a PHD or MD or whatever degree!!

There's a bunch 'o grrreat stuff out there and yes, a bunch of crapola stuff too!! One mans trash is another mans treasury perhaps?? Let the flunkies and drop-outs post their stuff, it makes "us" lOOk all the better!!

Viva la Pancakes!!
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Why do the pictures come out square when the lens is round??
+purmusic
03/20/09 11:18 PM GMT
" ... and thought; crap...something that's gonna take forever to read!! Who are you...Les??"

He wishes. :oP

Lol.
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"An eye for an eye, and soon the whole world is blind." - Mahatma Gandhi
::Hottrockin
03/20/09 11:19 PM GMT
8~O

I said that out loud??

~runs for cover~
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Why do the pictures come out square when the lens is round??
+purmusic
03/20/09 11:21 PM GMT
No worries, Randy. No worries.

(*goes off to archive some images ...*)

>:oD


/\ Just kidding, of course. :oP
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"An eye for an eye, and soon the whole world is blind." - Mahatma Gandhi
+purmusic
03/20/09 11:23 PM GMT
Heyyyyy ... wait a sec ... I see the madness behind ... er, Randy's madness.

He's making me do 'short'!

I'm tellin'!!

:oD
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"An eye for an eye, and soon the whole world is blind." - Mahatma Gandhi
::Hottrockin
03/20/09 11:43 PM GMT
Perhaps a pay site only!?!? Upload and download only if you're paid up?? That's what it sounds like what we're drivin' towards...which won't work!!

It IS a community for ALL, not just 'you' the artist or photographer of which you may 'think' you have something to offer!! It's still a matter of being!! 'You' think, 'you're' deserving!! Yadda, yadda, yadda...it's too bad the majority of "us" can't have fun here on Caedes.net and let others pretend or believe or perhaps, disbelieve!! Some perhaps may wanna even improve…go figure!!
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Why do the pictures come out square when the lens is round??
::Hottrockin
03/21/09 12:09 AM GMT
~pokes thread with a dead stick~

I think I killed it??
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Why do the pictures come out square when the lens is round??
.Stevenn120
03/21/09 12:38 AM GMT
I beleave Randy this thread has nine lives, an will come back, unfortunatly,and it will be the same old thoughts by the same poeple,You just cant please everyone,Fact..case closed.
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I am not an artist,just a photographer,I capture what I see...Camera Pentax K-10D
::egggray
03/21/09 3:38 AM GMT
~pokes head in door, sees no one around, throws a bunch of SHINY THINGS all over the room, leaves quietly and waits to see what happens next~
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If you wish to purchase framed photos, prints or greeting cards of my work please visit my website .http://www.redbubble.com/people/ziggy7
::rp64
03/21/09 4:33 AM GMT
Tosses some wood in to see if anyone will build a campfire...
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Three cheers for "Wonko the Sane" !
+purmusic
03/21/09 6:09 AM GMT
(*furiously starts rubbing shiny things together in an effort to create a spark for said campfire ...*)

... ...

... ...

I bought way, way ... wayyyyyyy ... too many marshmallows for the last one. :o|

(*munches on some of the stored chocolate (<--- oh no, no such thing as 'way, way ... wayyyyyy ... too much chocolate', so I've been told) to keep up his energies ... goes back to the task at hand ...*)

:oD
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"An eye for an eye, and soon the whole world is blind." - Mahatma Gandhi
.SatCom
03/22/09 1:18 AM GMT
I keep seeing shiny things......You guys and gals want me to start chasing again?

I have a question....at what point are you no longer considered a "NOOBIE" any more? Is it a time limit? Or is it when you start posting images that are not "middle of the road?"

Just want to know when I can start fitting in a category here.

OH LOOK>>>>SHINY THING!!!!!!!!
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Sometimes I do get to places just when God's ready to have somebody click the shutter. - Ansel Adams....... My Gallery
::egggray
03/22/09 1:23 AM GMT
You stop being a NOOBIE when you find out what a shiny thing is.
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If you wish to purchase framed photos, prints or greeting cards of my work please visit my website .http://www.redbubble.com/people/ziggy7
.SatCom
03/22/09 2:36 AM GMT
LOL....then I guess I'll always be a NOOBIE.
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Sometimes I do get to places just when God's ready to have somebody click the shutter. - Ansel Adams....... My Gallery
+purmusic
03/22/09 3:35 AM GMT
Public service announcement from the caedes.net team of administrators:

"Shiny thing".


Yous welcome. :oD
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"An eye for an eye, and soon the whole world is blind." - Mahatma Gandhi
.J_272004
03/22/09 3:50 AM GMT
LMAO.. shakes head and walks away... lost for words...
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MY GALLERY ........... "You are not alive unless you know you are living." Amadeo Modigliani
+nmsmith
03/22/09 4:09 AM GMT
Wow. What a discussion. I'm glad to see this conversation going on. May I put in my 2 bits worth? Having been part of Caedes for many years now, here are some of my thoughts...

1. Most of my beginning posts weren't all that great. I'm glad they weren't deleted right off the bat, and that people took time to comment on them. That encouraged me to do more, and to try to do better. I think I've come a long, long way since first starting. Caedes has been a great forum for feedback and improvement for me.

2. I learned early on that c-index doesn't really mean anything. I ignore it completely, and don't get ruffled feathers when one of my works ends up with a really low c-index score. I do find it interesting and informative to see which ones end up with higher or lower scores - but it doesn't always jive with my view of my images. I refuse to let my feelings get hurt when one of my images doesn't make it - even if I thought it was worthy enough. It's no big deal. It has been interesting to see which ones made it into the permanent galleries - and try to figure out why certain ones did, and others didn't.

3. As one of the moderators, I approve anything that meets the code of conduct. I think the system in place does a fairly good job of weeding the worst images after a decent period of time has passed and many people have had time to look, vote, and comment. I'm pretty impressed with the permanent galleries as they stand now.

4. If I see something that could use some improvement, I always try to state it in a positive way - by pointing out the good things about the image first of all, and suggesting some areas of improvement next. Sometimes I even link to an example of what I'm trying to say, so they can see it visually. However, I've seen some pretty nasty flames on this site between members who got their feathers ruffled. Perhaps an anonymous critique system might work, where the member being critiqued had the ability to hide the comment if they chose to (like DeviantArt does allows you to hide a comment). If people could critique anonymously, perhaps more critiques would be given. It a member was offended by a critique, they could hide it from everyone's view - yet they still received the message - and it might make them think on how they could improve their next image. Being able to hide comments might make the "Hall of Shame" a thing of the past, too.

5. I've very much enjoyed the people here on Caedes, and I've made many wonderful friends here. I'm so pleased to see the "Get togethers" happen in the UK and elsewhere. I've had some Caedes members travel to where I live so I could help them with a project. It was so great to meet them personally. More than anything - this kind of thing ought to be encouraged and helped. I bet when Caedes started this, he never envisioned all the wonderful friendships he'd create over time! Anyway, my sincere thanks to you, Caedes. This site has been a very positive thing in my life. Just think of all the web 2 kinds of things we can do - such as comment, PM, etc. They are great tools. As Caedes continues to improve the site, perhaps someday we could instant message each other, or do a google earth kind of thing where we can see where our photos were taken on a map of the world. I love to learn more about places I've never been. It would be neat to have more story behind the images, learn of the cultures, etc.

Anyway, I haven't had much time to comment or post discussion entries over the past couple of years and I miss that a great deal - Life has become too busy in many ways. I want all of you to know that even though I don't comment - I do watch and read. Is this part of growing older? Life seems to travel faster than I do anymore...

I admire all of you as a community of artists - and that you also include those, like me, that are still becoming artists. You all constitute a vast knowledge reservoir that I hope to continue to tap into for a long time to come. I have such a long way to go - and so many new things I want to learn.

God bless you all.

Nathan Smith

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::cynlee
03/22/09 4:16 AM GMT
God bless you too, Nathan.
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::egggray
03/22/09 5:17 AM GMT
Very well said Nathan. I think an anonymous critique system would be something good to at least try out.
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If you wish to purchase framed photos, prints or greeting cards of my work please visit my website .http://www.redbubble.com/people/ziggy7
::danika
03/22/09 5:41 AM GMT
Nathan, some very good points you brought up & thank you for sharing your thoughts. Sometimes all it takes is a long-standing member to show or lead the rest of us in a postive way.

I mentioned it another thread & will mention it here also. I do like your idea of anonymous critiquing as I think more members will feel more comfortable giving out constructive feedback. Should solve the problem on both ends ... giving & receiving. Like Gregg said, it's worth a try.
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We make a living by what we get, but we make a life by what we give ~ Winston Churchill
*caedes
03/22/09 6:09 AM GMT
Nathan: Just in case you aren't aware, there is currently support for semi-anonymous comments on the dev site. The commenter's name is not displayed, but it is stored just in case.
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-caedes
+purmusic
03/22/09 6:18 AM GMT
Is there support for semi-anonymous creations/postings of discussion threads?

Just askin'.

:oP
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"An eye for an eye, and soon the whole world is blind." - Mahatma Gandhi
::cynlee
03/22/09 6:24 AM GMT
Caedes- What does it mean 'just in case'?

Les---That would be a Pandora's box.lol Besides, we'd know
your posting right away!
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+purmusic
03/22/09 6:26 AM GMT
Semi-anonymous: The posting or comment is there for all to see, yet, the author's name is precluded from view.

Hence, this part:

"The commenter's name is not displayed, but it is stored just in case."

'In case' ... of inappropriate and/or abusive comments or posts, they can then be tracked and reprimands/actions doled out.
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"An eye for an eye, and soon the whole world is blind." - Mahatma Gandhi
::LynEve
03/22/09 11:28 AM GMT
I think I would support it - with the proviso also mentioned that there be the ability for the comment to be hidden at the artists discretion.
My reason being that anonymous comments, though more members may be comfortable giving them, it could also lead to comments/critiques of a less helpful nature (i.e.nasty/derogatory/Hall of Shame type ones) being left under the shield of anonymity.

The only downside I can see is that any ongoing discussion would have to be held on the image page, and the commenter may not return there to carry it on.
Perhaps the option to give name or not? but still letting the artist delete it if they choose.
But then I suppose that could possibly lead to all less than glowing comments being deleted and no one would gain from the suggestions left by others, and it is very often things pointed out on the work of others that is of help to many.

Mmm, more complicated than I first thought lol
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The question is not what you look at, but what you see ~ Marcel Proust
+purmusic
03/22/09 1:46 PM GMT
I tend to leave 'thinking' out of the equation.

As Randy; aka Hottrockin would say (and has :oP) ... 'K.I.S.S.'.

That last part, I got down. Pretty sure about that.
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"An eye for an eye, and soon the whole world is blind." - Mahatma Gandhi
::LynEve
03/23/09 12:00 AM GMT
OK - I think I am not short but I am simple :)
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The question is not what you look at, but what you see ~ Marcel Proust
.Jay_Underwood
03/24/09 9:00 PM GMT
This is one heck of a thread you started here Rob. I have to agree with alot of people in deffense. I understand what you mean. I get sick of what some of us would consider "crap". At the same time, don't be so sure all of your work is spactacular because you got spotlighted last month. I'm not trying to be mean here, but it's like the pot calling the kettle black. "Ones man's junk is another man's treasure". It's all been said, and this thread seems to have been beaten to death. I know you've left me some nice comments on my work, and or said otherwise. It's ok.. To the ones that you consider junk. Just ignore the damn things.
Peace out.
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Open up your mind and go your own way.
::third_eye
03/24/09 9:20 PM GMT
I'm pretty sure you missed the point of what I had to say, as well as the type of posts I take issue with here. Last few days I have only had to time to peek in here or there.

I'd ask that you reconsider your thoughts and words, and express them in a more constructive manner.
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Please, even if you don't visit my gallery, check out my "Faves".I've left them intact since day "1", and would like it if every image there got the attention they deserved.
::third_eye
03/24/09 10:18 PM GMT
Actually, I'm glad you referenced my "spotlight". It contains a couple of things I'd like to point out here.. very timely and relevant to this thread, and perhaps will shed some light on where I'm coming from.

"In what would be a moment that would have lasting effects decades later, a half-hearted effort of mine to submit a photo essay was met with the following line:

"I can't accept this from you. I know you can do so much better, so now get and prove it to me." Thank you, Paul Jablon, wherever you are."

"Without a doubt, I've learned SO much from the site here, and through the constructive criticism offered, have grown in my art. Members such as Keith (+KEIFER), Les (&purmusic), Phil (+PhilcUK) have provided the kind of growth inspiring tips and pointers (and no short supply of caveats) which helped me tremendously."


and finally:

"I do see this site as a community. I do see this site as a place of learning; a type of univerity if you will. And it is in that sentiment that I've offered just about all of what I have to say. I'm just a member, like all of you, but that's the point. We all, as I see it, need to assume some level of ownership, even though the site is not actually "ours", and be as willing to assume responsibilty for it's well being, as we are to enjoy it's rewards."



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Please, even if you don't visit my gallery, check out my "Faves".I've left them intact since day "1", and would like it if every image there got the attention they deserved.
::Hottrockin
03/24/09 10:21 PM GMT
I re-read your post and still get the same thing outta it from when I went through it the first time, perhaps I am missing something you’re tryin’ to say…sorry.

I meant not to be harsh in my comments, and they sure weren’t directed right at you, but tried to articulate my thoughts of what you’d posted. It wasn’t constructive as it’s your post and I’m not gonna critique your thoughts & comments, only add what I think / feel and I stick by my prior comments to the thread.

Again, I re-read your post and am pretty sure I’m getting’ whatcha talkin’ ‘bout and I could link names & images of what I ‘think’ you’re talkin’ ‘bout but that wouldn’t be right. Have fun and let others have their fun, you don’t have to view or comment on these images you speak of. Heck, now with the new upload w/no voting then you sure don’t have to go thru the voting booth and ‘rate’ stuff. Works for me!! No voting, no c-index to enjoy or be disgruntled over…hooray!! If I was really lOOkin’ for accolades I’d pay top dollar and join an actual photography group or try selling my pieces online, but I’m not…it’s $ 3.00 a month for a desktop wallpaper community, that’s all. Lots don’t even pay and get to upload “stuff”!! Again, desktop wallpaper community, not the art institute. Yeah, some of the ‘stuff’ doesn’t work as desktop wallpaper I know…heck you & I both have stuff like that in our gallery!!

I do appreciate the attitude / thought (why can’t we just all get along) in that it would be nice to view each upload and see something nice, refreshing and to take away something from each post, but dude…it’s a BIG world / community and it just isn’t gonna happen.
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Why do the pictures come out square when the lens is round??
.mesmerized
03/25/09 4:29 AM GMT
Still at it?...I don't think I have the desire to get further entangled in this but did re-read a good many of the above posts and surprisingly, despite the strong opposing views, was able to find some measure of truth or valid points made by most if not all...funny huh?...I also don't think I have the stamina to do what it takes to list them all so instead respectfully suggest that perhaps (?) it's time to 'put our money where our mouth is'...and to that end, I offer THIS as a possible idea.
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I can resist everything except temptation. Oscar Wilde

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