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Discussion Board -> Request for Comment -> Just Curious Too
Just Curious Too
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In order to understand why this happens you need to look at the votes cast by people in the most active list, rather than question your own image.
Very few people vote relative to the whole caedes population and most only vote to upload images. Some people do however vote a lot either by uploading a lot or just to vote, and this causes a skew in the taste of people voting.
If you calculate the number of votes cast from the number of images uploaded in a week (600) multiplied by 16 and allow for some posts not being voted on, you find that around 9,000 votes are cast in a week,and that most of these votes are accounted for by the top 100 active members. The result is that about 8 most prolific voters cast 25% of the votes, 25 cast 50% of the votes and 50 people cast 75% of the votes. A lot of these people have common friendships and comment on each other pictures favourably. We could therefore believe that they share common tastes - in a very broad sense.
The reason images like this get low votes is because it does not appeal to the taste of those that cast the majority of the votes. They are not in general the ones that left comments on your picture. This creates a disparity between comments passed and votes received, and therefore the low CI with a load of good comments.
Of course, because vote casting is random, you may have been lucky and got more people from outside the major taste holders (office joke there), in which case the CI would probably have been higher. However, the statistical chance of getting a lot of votes from outside this group is quite low, so the CI index will usually reflect this groups taste.
Statistically people in this group get the same effect, but low votes are as rare for them as high ones are for you. Cornelius complained about an image getting a low vote when he had lots of positive comments. He is also well liked by the most active members who do the voting (judging form people who left comments on his images). Therefore he is statistically more likely to get a majority of votes from people who have similar tastes as he does and therefore usually gets a high CI index. Sometime, and quite rarely, the opposite happens and he will get a lot of votes from people outside this group who are not so appreciative of his art and therefore vote lower.
In between these two extremes are a whole range of voting that causes the aberrations we see, purely from people voting according to their tastes, which is how most people vote, and indeed should do.
Personally I liked this image. I had the chance to vote on it and gave it a score of around 7 I think, which on my scale of voting is above average because it was different, but not quite into the wow area. However, in my own experience dark images get low votes on Caedes, regardless of their merit. Personally, I rarely get images over 60 and most are in the 50 area. The more odd ball they are the lower the CI, unless they are very colourful. However, this is actually correct in my mind. If people get constant 80+ for good but average images when will they know when they get a really good one.
As you say, the CI index does give an impression of the value of an image to the voting community. Just be aware that the voting community is around 20% of the caedes active members (~1000) and the majority of vats are cast by around 5% and therefore may not share your tastes. Also, there are many pictures in the perms that have CI in the 40 range, and I suspect it might go up a little anyway. Mine tend to, once I get into votes from the more infrequent members of the site.
The high rate of downloads can also be caused by people having to see a larger image to work out what the picture is about. It does not necessarily mean they like it. Often dark images fall into this trap. Not saying this is the case here, just that it may play a part.
There are a lot of generalisations here, and I do not wish to upset anyone by implying there is a group in control of caedes. That is most definitely not the case. It is just a matter of taste, who votes and some statistical aberrations.
Very few people vote relative to the whole caedes population and most only vote to upload images. Some people do however vote a lot either by uploading a lot or just to vote, and this causes a skew in the taste of people voting.
If you calculate the number of votes cast from the number of images uploaded in a week (600) multiplied by 16 and allow for some posts not being voted on, you find that around 9,000 votes are cast in a week,and that most of these votes are accounted for by the top 100 active members. The result is that about 8 most prolific voters cast 25% of the votes, 25 cast 50% of the votes and 50 people cast 75% of the votes. A lot of these people have common friendships and comment on each other pictures favourably. We could therefore believe that they share common tastes - in a very broad sense.
The reason images like this get low votes is because it does not appeal to the taste of those that cast the majority of the votes. They are not in general the ones that left comments on your picture. This creates a disparity between comments passed and votes received, and therefore the low CI with a load of good comments.
Of course, because vote casting is random, you may have been lucky and got more people from outside the major taste holders (office joke there), in which case the CI would probably have been higher. However, the statistical chance of getting a lot of votes from outside this group is quite low, so the CI index will usually reflect this groups taste.
Statistically people in this group get the same effect, but low votes are as rare for them as high ones are for you. Cornelius complained about an image getting a low vote when he had lots of positive comments. He is also well liked by the most active members who do the voting (judging form people who left comments on his images). Therefore he is statistically more likely to get a majority of votes from people who have similar tastes as he does and therefore usually gets a high CI index. Sometime, and quite rarely, the opposite happens and he will get a lot of votes from people outside this group who are not so appreciative of his art and therefore vote lower.
In between these two extremes are a whole range of voting that causes the aberrations we see, purely from people voting according to their tastes, which is how most people vote, and indeed should do.
Personally I liked this image. I had the chance to vote on it and gave it a score of around 7 I think, which on my scale of voting is above average because it was different, but not quite into the wow area. However, in my own experience dark images get low votes on Caedes, regardless of their merit. Personally, I rarely get images over 60 and most are in the 50 area. The more odd ball they are the lower the CI, unless they are very colourful. However, this is actually correct in my mind. If people get constant 80+ for good but average images when will they know when they get a really good one.
As you say, the CI index does give an impression of the value of an image to the voting community. Just be aware that the voting community is around 20% of the caedes active members (~1000) and the majority of vats are cast by around 5% and therefore may not share your tastes. Also, there are many pictures in the perms that have CI in the 40 range, and I suspect it might go up a little anyway. Mine tend to, once I get into votes from the more infrequent members of the site.
The high rate of downloads can also be caused by people having to see a larger image to work out what the picture is about. It does not necessarily mean they like it. Often dark images fall into this trap. Not saying this is the case here, just that it may play a part.
There are a lot of generalisations here, and I do not wish to upset anyone by implying there is a group in control of caedes. That is most definitely not the case. It is just a matter of taste, who votes and some statistical aberrations.
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"There are no rules for good photographs, there are only good photographs." Ansel Adams - Please look at other images in my Gallery.
1. 40 is not that low.
2. It is pretty dark. Not necessarily a bad thing.
3. There's not a clear focal point. (Not sure that's the right word, but there's nothing to look at except water.)
I like it, I think it works well as a background rather than by itself, and I would guess these are the reasons it didn't score higher. If you're going to make desktop backgrounds, don't expect them to score as high as those that are pictures in their own right.
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There are few situations in life that cannot be honourably settled, and without any loss of time, either by suicide, a bag of gold, or by thrusting a despised antagonist over the edge of a precipice on a dark night.
-- Kai Lung
@::coram9 - My god man, I have never seen the C-index so completely explained and mathematicaly debunked. Please copy and past this as the first reply to all future C-index threads! You make many good points about both the c-index and its relation to the type of image I posted.
That said, I am not so worried about the index score as hopping to learn from this photo.
@::Akeraios - aggreed, 40 is not so low, especially for a dark image. You may be on to something there with the lack of focal point. Perhaps the eyes scan the image, wonder what to look at, and just get bored that fast? - Thank you.
That said, I am not so worried about the index score as hopping to learn from this photo.
@::Akeraios - aggreed, 40 is not so low, especially for a dark image. You may be on to something there with the lack of focal point. Perhaps the eyes scan the image, wonder what to look at, and just get bored that fast? - Thank you.
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People aren't going to remember the things you do. They're going to remember how you made people feel. Be kind, gracious, and appreciative.
Dan Winters - Photographer.
As I said in my comment Dark is difficult the only thing I can think of it lacking is a sparkle or shimmer to focus on aside from the C-index discussion.
Rob
Rob
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The reason why the sunsets in the evening is because it wants to see the sunrise in the morning. I rise in the morning because I want to see them both. RvdB
Thanks Rob.
A point of interest to keep the viewers eyes from wandering away then. A little sparkle seems a great and natural idea for this one.
A point of interest to keep the viewers eyes from wandering away then. A little sparkle seems a great and natural idea for this one.
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People aren't going to remember the things you do. They're going to remember how you made people feel. Be kind, gracious, and appreciative.
Dan Winters - Photographer.
Dark Waters
Has recieved a 40 C-index, Positive comments, and a high ratio of downloads to views.
I would appreciate some sincere critique. The C-index implies it is lacking somewhat in some way. I would like to figure out what that may be. I don't worry about the C-index, but it does give a general indication of like / don't like in the voting population.
Thank you.
Edit: Not complaining, just looking to learn.