I'm in the market for a small camera that I can easily take hiking with me. I've pretty much decided that I don't want a digital camera for this trip because I plan on staying out for a week at a time and I don't want to have to carry so many batteries. I already have a 35mm SLR, however I think that it is too large for the trip. Have these requirements doomed me to produce crappy photos or is there a way to salvage the situation.

when i read your subject i was going to suggest one of canon's digital elphs. I have an older one (s200) and i really like it. it easily fits into my pocket. It is digital though which you said you didn't want. I might sugest going digital anyways, and getting one that has a lithium battery in it and then turn the display off and use the viewfinder for taking pictures.

Caedes the battery for my Kodak LS443 digital camera weighs 25 grams which lasts approximately 150 shots. A roll of 35mm film in the plastic canister weighs the same as the battery. The camera weighs in at a whopping 260 grams;-) Go with the digital, you will save weight/picture:-) Sounds like your in for some R&R.

You're right, I didn't factor in the weight of the film when I was thinking of digital versus film. Any guess as to how long the battery would last if I did everything that Milo suggested? The digital elph is actually one of the cameras that I was considering getting anyhow, so I'm night look into that after all.

I used to rely heavily on the display for composing the shot before moving to DSLR. I just couldn't stand those tiny little viewmaster viewfinders. I would imagine you will get twice the life from a battery without using the display.

i bought the digital elph s330(earlier posts here), 6 mons b4 they came out with the s400, look at the elphs and go with a back up battery, cf memory is cheap...tis a bullet for abuse in the outback...

So after further investigation, it looks like none of the digital elph cameras will work due to the proprietary and expensive batteries that they use.

So the new requirement is that it has to use something normal like AA's.

If you decided to stick with film, I'd immediately say one of these. The downside is they are very much p&s (at least my Stylus Epic 115 is) with nothing in the way of manual controls. That said, they're "weatherproof" (the gaskets and seals are quite impressive), with a solid clamshell cover on the lens (much less prone to damage bouncing around in/on a pack than the thin shutter-style covers on most other cameras) and do actually take pretty good photos. I haven't used mine much/at all since getting digital, but I ran many rolls of film through it back in the day.

On just a digital recommendation, I'd say an elph or the digital stylus. Same plusses/minuses as above, with proprietary batteries. My friend has a stylus 400, and it's survived many dayhikes and several backpacks in the 'Dacks, and even a dip in the cold ocean waters of Maine (while on and recording video!). Image quality is definitely p&s, but for the size it's pretty darn good. Proprietary batteries should really be fine, the expense evens out when you have to buy a $50 charger and NiMHs at $10/4pack (don't even consider using alkalines). A main battery and spare should last you at least as long as it takes to fill your memory card. The only reason to stick with the AAs is availability, if this is a super-long trip, you could presumably gank them from a flashlight or similar.

Now, if you want digital with AAs, I'm pretty sure your options are limited to Canon. Current models using AAs are the A-series and the S1. Axx cameras (and the S1, but I'd disqualify that for size if you want small) use 4 batteries and the new Axxx (510 and 520) use only two (and is smaller overall). For an extended trip, I know what I'd take.

Good morning

A note on the batteries for the digital if you use the AA size - go for the newer 2500 mAh Ni-MH - I went from around 150 frames in my FujiFilm S3000 to around 230 frames before they ran out of go juice.

I would go with a small inexpensive digital with the ability to use rechargable Ni-MH battery (some of them use 2 and some 4 AAs). Get an extra set of batteries and possibly look into the in car charging unit.

The reason I'm so insistant on AA's is that I will have literally no opportunity to recharge a battery for the entire trip (2 weeks or so). That means that going with a digital Elph would require the purchase of over $100-$200 in fancy batteries. According to the literature for some of the canon digitals, I'll be able to get nearly 700 exposures with a set of 4 AA's if I don't use the LCD much. This sounds like the best deal so far since it would mean that I could get away with only taking one extra set of batteries. BTW I was supprised to find a nice 1G compactflash card for only $80. That's a pretty good price I'm thinking.

Wow, 700 exposures is great. Who will be our Guardian Angel while you are gone? Now you need to rig up a nice compact solar recharger;-)

I understand completely your desire for AAs, it's one of the reasons I bought my particular camera. But lately the arguements for proprietary batteries have made more sense to me. Especially since alkalines SUCK for cameras, and you'll have to immediately buy NiMH rehargeables and a charger, whereas in proprietary systems you get a battery and charger. I don't know where the "700 exposures" number came from, but I can almost guarantee it wasn't done with CopperTops.

A lot of what I just said isn't directed to you, caedes, but to people who might read this and think they can save money or that alkalines are more convenient or whatever. My point is just that proprietary batteries aren't really the devil for 99% of users. Though I can see why it is that you will prefer them (I still insist you'll want rechargeable AAs). :-)

Depending on how "nice" the CF card, $80 is about right. The standard candle as far as I know for cost for online electronics is newegg. Don't put the cart before the horse, though, not every camera uses CF. I forgot about a number of cameras that use AAs like the some of the Nikons and Olympuses. Here's the list of cameras available from newegg that use AAs.

As a matter of question, are you fully outfitted for the trip other than a camera, or are you still making other major gear decisions?

Hmm, well it appears that CF prices have just gone down quite a bit since the last time I was looking. The Canon webiste quotes a 750 exposure capacity with two NiMH batteries. Actually, I just remembered that I already have a recharger for those. =)

As far as the rest of my gear goes... I only have to get a backpack. Truthfully I don't HAVE to get a backpack since I have an older external frame from my boyscout years, however I've had my eye on a nice internal frame Gregory backpack for some time now. I'm going to wait untill I know exactly what I'm going to be carrying, but I've narrowed it down to the Makalu Pro or one of the Escape series. Once I get everything I'll be carrying into a big pile I'll go to the store and try to cram it all into a bag.

So far these two cameras look pretty good:

Canon A400
Canon A85

The prices are basically the same, so based on features which would you choose?

If only you lived nearby, I could have loaned you my old digital Elph...

Looks like the A85 is the better camera. Aperture is a little larger @ f2.8, more pixels, more manual control with manual focus especially for the macros.

Agree with Darryl -- also, for the price, the A85 seems perfect for your needs.

I've got the A80 which has a similar design to the A85. It's really an excellent camera. It's not too big, so its easy to carry around, but not so small as being uncomfortable to hold.

Everything I hear about the Axx cameras is positive. The A400 looks like it might be marginally smaller and uses fewer batteries, but I'd bet the A85 is the better all-around camera. (Since of course once you're back you're not going to put the camera away with your other gear.) Pick something soon, though, so that you have a chance to get accustomed to it before depending on it for your memories of 2 awesome weeks...

As for the pack, a friend of mine has the Gregory Whitney, and you can tell that thing is built to take abuse and last. I haven't looked at them lately, but a Gregory is the pack I wanted before my priorities changed. If you have long, relatively flat hauls, the external will probably still be great (assuming it still fits), but if you're going to have to do any scrambling or dodging over/around boulders, the internal will probably be easier to move with. Though you may know more about this than I do... :) Definitely get a camera bag that will attach to the shoulder strap or hip belt, it will make it much easier to access that camera when you want to take a photo so you won't have to drop pack. I also usually then tie the camera's strap to the pack with a cord loop so that if it slips out of my hands, it's not falling on granite.

I'm glad that I'm not the only one to tie the camera to the backpack. =) That is exactly what I did the last time I went out. I actually bought the backpack last night on ebay. I got the Makalu (new) for about 50% of the retail price. =) Getting the camera soon would probably be a good idea as well since I'll need to benchmark the batery life before I go out.

you could always just be really flash and take one of these with you then you wouldnt need to worry about the battery recharge problem so much......

My favorite portable camera is my Canonet QL17. It's old and sturdy, has large fstop 1.7, auto and manual controls, and is compact.

Well I think I've settled on the Canon A520. Do you see any reason why this might not be ok? Otherwise I'm going to go ahead and order it from newegg.

didnt fancy the roll away solar panel chargers then? :-)

This review is a bit more in-depth and graphical, especially in the 'compared to...' pages: HERE.

The conclusion, "So then, we have a solidly built and sophisticated camera that delivers more than one could expect at this price point, a camera that makes taking good pictures easy, but a camera that can sometimes feel frustratingly slow. For the money it seems churlish to complain about the performance of the camera when pushed to take pictures in rapid succes- sion 'under pressure', but if that's your style of shooting, the A520 - or any budget camera for that matter - probably isn't for you. If not, this is a mature and capable product that's well worth a closer look."

Aside from the speed that Camerahound pointed out, I'd say it's probably the closest to what you want. Small, AA powered cameras usually fall into the "cheap"/budget market segment, and are targeted to beginners, with no features beyond point->click. The A-series gives you manual/AV/TV modes, something I'm sure you'd appreciate coming from an SLR background.

Thanks for the comments. I went ahead and purchased it yesterday, so no more comments unless they are in approval. =)

*Applauds*

Pshaw, bad choice! :-p

Well I received the camera today. I've not had a chance to play with it yet though. I can't believe how tiny it is! I was afraid I would inhale the SD card is was so small. Mabye this weekend I'll have a chance to get a few shots in.

next thing you need is a real sd card, like 512, minimum 256 and get 2 of em...

why would you get 2 cards, that seems really dumb, its nice just having one that has a nice permanent home in the camera

Two cards are better if one happens to go bad on you, or you forget to format before shooting and realize that it's already almost full. I don't shoot with any single card over 2GB for that exact reason.

Traveling to the far ends of the earth and running out of film one capture from renown, or at least from personal satisfaction, is unnecessary and easily avoidable. With digital, battery life and memory cards are secondary to what is really important, and should be dealt with accordingly. Look to take at least 100 images at the highest quality available on a single shoot, so you can concentrate and focus on what this is all about.

Actually I bought two 512MB cards (for the same reasons that brphoto mentions). I know that when it comes to hard drives in my computer, you have many more configuration options with two drives than one (plus the price was the same either way).

you're gonna have to pick and choose which ones you wanna keep and throw away the bad ones, all you can keep is 538 pics...smart move buying the 512s i bought a 1 gb and then read why you buy 2-512s, but i have loads of others, i just have to remember to fill em...

So how's the camera working for you?

It's a good little camera. It is smaller than I thought it would be. I've not been able to do any endurance tests because the card that I have currently is only 16MB. The two 512MB cards that I ordered were shipped to a different location, so I've not been able to pick them up yet. I'll probably take it with me on my gear testing hike this weekend. If I put it in super crappy resolution mode I should be able to get enough pictures taken to properly simulate a typical day on the trail.