Had the thought, that perhaps 'we' could develop/further this thread/discussion to serve as reference/repository of knowledge of sorts for those members looking to take their art to the next level.. printing.


The basics:

"Image Resolution And Print Quality"

And.. a video:

"Eddie Tapp on Creating a Gallery Quality Print from Capture to Edit to Print"

Something surprising happened today I loaded some of my pictures on to a tablet got into my car and made up my mind I was going to do something with my work..... with no real plan more like determination well had a store in mind here in Rotterdam were I got some pictures out of the store window for my images walked in got a hold of the owner had a nice conversation but he was him self is a photographer so he said he liked my work but only sold his own. But had made up my mind and started to walked after a short while noticed some young people lugging Art work into what turned out to be a Gallery. Well walked in had a look round when a guy introduced himself to me as Roderick had a chat about the gallery turned out they are going to open this Saturday. Well he asked if there was any thing I liked told him what I did pulled out my tablet and showed him my work after some comments more people gathered and out of no were Roderick asked me as he liked my work if I would like to hang my work in there gallery a short haggle over there commission and a invite to the opening this Saturday some more chit chat I went home some what bewildered. Panic then struck all kinds of stuff went threw my mind image size, resolution, print quality, how will it look bigger looks good on screen but, saturation, copy shops/printers use different standards than jpg. or png. Well a lot of that is covered here above with the links Les has provided still have to work out whats the best standard to work in because when you convert from jpg or png to ........the saturation can go all out of whack. But for me well the the learning curve has started lets call it baby steps started looking at some of my work well sloppy in some areas so started cleaning light, dark, contrast, saturation etc. Huuuuummmm am going invest x Amount with out seeing it first put some pictures on a USB had them printed toke a good look mumble grumble still not right cleaning some more.......thinking if your going to sell you need a good print quality .......well that’s were I am about now times short hope to be hanging my first images in the next few weeks........OMG panic.......picture frames got to runnnnn.......

I myself am to lazy and don't use photo shop. I use
http://www.redbubble.com/people/ziggy7 for having my photos printed and framed. It is a little expensive, but the quality is outstanding. I have donated many large framed photos to the Hospital I work at. It is like having a free art gallery to display my work..

congrats

Before you go out to purchase a flat panel for a monitor, or even an inexpensive monitor meant for computer use, there's a simple test to determine if your hard-earned cash is about to be wasted. It's important to be able to see your images on the screen in a consistant manner or your adjustments will fall short. Pick out your flat panel at the store and move in as close to it as you would when using it for a computer monitor (oh, yeah, I forgot... make sure it's turned on). Bring your eyes level to the top and study the color brightness, density, contrast and quality of the image on the screen. Now move down to the bottom of the screen to see if the image gets darker or lighter. Do the same thing from one side to the other. If it changes substantially, no low price is low enough. If you can't see consistant quality on the monitor you can't adjust your photos properly. That means they won't print properly and no one will want them on their walls (unless they're color-blind, have poor taste, or really, really want to be your friend... in which case, run as though you were about to be audited). I had a Samsung 220wm monitor and it was a very poor choice for this very reason. I've used Macs for years and have two Apple 27" LED Cinema displays running. They cost a grand each but the photos look real, like they're just outside the window. Monitors and software are like camera equipment, well, pretty much anything of quality, and you need to keep an old and simple axiom in mind. (repeat after me) "You Get What You Pay For." You buy cheap crap and that's what your results will look like. If your goal is to make a little (or a lot) of green from shooting photos (and hopefully you have the eye and the gift for shooting the good stuff), you have to look on buying the right gear as simply an investment. If you can't bring yourself to that sort of commitment then forget about trying to supplement your income with photo sales—shoot for your friends, only. That might seem harsh but you have to realize what age you're living in. Almost everyone and their gramma has a cheap point-and-shoot Olympus or a phone on their camera, so that means there are virtually billions of photos being taken every year, most by people who have no idea how to shoot quality photos. Some of these same people may be found in the group who could be in the market for your prints except for one thing; they think their stuff is good (at least, until they see your stuff). Yep. Their snaps are probably a good match for the south end of a north-bound skunk but they will think it's great stuff simply because they shot it and what they shoot usually means something personal to them. I'm not talking about anthropomorphized Homer Simpson-type characters, drooling over donuts and megapixels, but rather housewives, doctors, mechanics, police officers, restaurant managers, etc. People from any walk of life and any amount of education. To be able to sell you have to produce the best possible images, the sort of images that make these people sit up and say "Oh yeah, this is so much better than mine." It's simple reality (here it comes again); "You Get What You Pay For." Photoshop is expensive and, yes, has a learning curve big enough on which to drive a tandem semi. Once you learn the basics of this program, however, you find that while it takes a while to adjust or build an image, it's an image that will stand up to a lot of digital abuse. The difference between Photoshop and the $99 photo-manipulation specials is like building a complete house with a finish hammer, duct tape, carpet tacks, and a hand saw. You need plenty of tools and lots of levels to make a strong structure. Now I have never fully trained on Photoshop (never had the time) but I have picked up plenty from time to time by Googling ideas and steps and every time I upgrade my Photoshop version I buy a Scott Kelby book from Amazon about that version. Kelby is one of the premiere digital photographers and designers in the country and his books are incredibly easy to follow. He writes in a familiar style (I often find myself laughing while I'm learning from him) and he cuts through the jargon to make a Photoshop feature something anyone can do. His idea is to team up with you, whether you're out shooting photos or sitting at your screen, and he takes you step-by-step through each process in the book.

Make sure your photo program and monitor is calibrated to your printer. The settings and utility for doing this should be in your operating system, regardless of platform (Mac or PC). And don't buy a cheap, crappy printer. Remember (I know what you're going to say, but it's till true...) "You Get What You Pay For."

Okay, enough about that for a while. The reason you may find the photos you've shot in the past, for your Caedes gallery or Flikr or whatever, are not the print quality you hoped for, is possibly because Caedes is a wallpaper site, and images taken for desktop wallpaper do not have to be hi-rez to look good on the screen. We get too used to shooting that way and for that use, but if you want to print your photos you have to be willing to change they way you shoot, adjust and archive your images. In my professional position I shoot photos for my state and my agency, thousands of them each year, ranging from wildlife to architecture to history to portraits to artifacts, and even some weird stuff thrown in for good measure. I know that there's always a chance that a photo of mine may be printed the size of a postage stamp or used to create a window scrim 25 feet across. I upgrade my DSLR cameras every three to four years, staying with the same brands (for me there's only Canon and Nikon... the rest are just cheap imitations of cameras) so I can keep adding to my glass (lens) collection and shooting capabilities. Currently I'm shooting 18.1 megapixels (moving to 22 or 24 megapixels this summer) and I adjust my quality settings to the highest possible, just short of RAW. (I'm not shooting RAW just yet because I want to learn more about it first.) That gives me less photos per card but, y'know, we don't shoot for quantity, we shoot for quality. (I have a brother-in-law who loves to tell me he can fit almost 20,000 photos on his 6mp point-and-shoot whateverthehellthebrandis. They're like 72 dpi but he loves it. Then again, he IS Homer Simpson.) But the way I adjust my photos is something anyone who's serious about this stuff should do, whether the camera is a Nikon D7100 DSLR or a Canon PowerShot ELPH 130 IS, or maybe even your smart phone (but I'm not really recommending that last one).

1) In my camera menus I set my resolution to the finest and largest size I can get. The days of 36 exposures is long gone. You can shoot until your toucas falls off. If you want to shoot more, get a bigger card or another card.
2) Whenever I adjust a photo in Photoshop I make the first copy a 600 dpi TIFF, 8" x 5.333" (my standard ratio, yours will vary with your camera but try the long sides I use - 8" and so on).
3) The second copy I reduce (from the TIFF) to a 450 dpi JPEG, 4" x 2.667"
4) The third copy I reduce (from the JPEG) to a 300 dpi PNG, 2.5" x 1.667"
5) The Tiff (Tagged Information File Format) will be the one you use to print. I have a 44" Epson photo printer at the office that can print up to 100 feet long (on a roll) and up to 2880 dpi. I've printed 42" wide copies of my TIFFs and they come out beautifully. This size TIFF is usually around 44 MB in size.
6) The JPEG (Joint Photographc Experts Group) is usually around 7 MB in size and is what I use to attach to emails if I want to share high-quality images without crashing their PCs—I use a Mac. Yesterday I opened and adjusted a scan of a painting that was 5.6 GB (that's gigabytes, not megabytes) without much trouble.
7) The smallest copy, the PNG (Portable Network Graphic) is for viewing onscreen only. Big enough and sharp enough to look good on screen, it fills that bill nicely.
8) I catalog these photos in folders that start with a sequential number followed by the date (the first folder would be, say, "1 - April 19, 2013," the next maybe "2 - April 24, 2013.") Since sequence recognition will often take an alphabetic approach, folders beginning with months can mess up the system very fast. Starting with a number makes it easy to keep all your photos in chronological order.
9) I archive them by burning copies to DVDs, 4 copies each time. One stays in my agency studio, one goes to the agency's photo curator, one to an outside party, and one goes home with me. Digital disasters can happen at any time, without warning, to anyone regardless of experience or good intentions (I lost approx. 8,000 photos, 2,000 scans, 35 complete exhibits, and various other data a couple years ago to a massive electrical storm that got past my protection and killed a drive and a logic board). Backing up your photos will keep them safe for printing or sharing for as long as the DVDs (kept in a cool, dry place) may live, and you can still get back to Kansas.

Converting your old images may not be the way to go; you might just have to bite the bullet on this one and start with new photos, shot and adjusted at the right size the first time. Unless you've very experienced and very good at converting, there's a couple very important things to remember about converting and about data in general. 1) You cannot add data to a 300 dpi image to make it a true 600 dpi image, and 2), if you enlarge a raster image (a photo or scan consisting of pixels), you are simply enlarging the pixels. Unless you work in a real-life Las Vegas CSI lab, you probably don't have the $25,000 software necessary to add data to a digital image. I accept the idea that I might have to return to a place I took photos at, several years before, to get better photos of the same place. I also accept the fact that I may have older photos that look great on the screen, and they're personal favorites of mine, but I may never get a chance to reshoot them because the circumstances and environment will never be the same, because I know this for certain—another great photo opportunity will always come along.

Lastly, what the original question was about (if I remember correctly), is printing. My personal choice of printer is a 13" x 19" Epson photo printer. They produce the quality and size that fills my needs. Most prints, matted and framed, will not need to be any larger than this. You can spend around $600 for a good one the size I mentioned, add in some quality glossy Kodak photo paper (don't buy the discount crap... don't make me repeat myself), and more for the inks it will use until the foam drip strip fills up and you need to replace the printer, but if you are able to sell your prints at a reasonable price (reasonable for you—don't make yourself beg for customers by giving your work away cheap), this type of printer will pay for itself in not much time at all. You can go to photo shops and printers to have your photos printed but remember, they are in the business of making money... YOUR money... and any profit you will want to see from selling your photos will drop dramatically if you don't make your own prints.

How's that for a while, Les? If I misspelled anything (and I probably did), folks'll just have to read between the lines... for the secret code, y'know.

-Nik

Thanks ever so much, Nik.

Really appreciate you sharing your knowledge and giving of your time.

a lot of insight to how its done.thanks

To the mods:

It's when you're on top of things, like moving that comment above to the Hall of Shame, that answers those members who wonder if you're still there. Thank you. This thread is all about helping people with information they need to get more out of their craft, and nothing that would have pushed anyone to make the sort of comment the "...brat" did. Further indication that there are those who wish to attack the site and it's members, whenever possible, with no provocation. We need to be aware of that and be willing to place a complaint so the mods can deal with it.

Happy Trails.

-Nik

Well back to the discussion ..............and don 't set me of on picture frames you think the picture is hard to get right well so not .......a wrong frame can really trash a picture ;0) A lot has been written above over the technical stuff so I will go for the practical stuff.
This Wednesday will be printing my first Trash Art image ......not telling which one but choose one that has a story to tell. Going for a A2 print size in a series of 25 posters. Had talk with the gallery they would like smaller but the images lose there impact in smaller sizes
so will see what happens on that. Why then 25 well what I make I want to sell so kinda figure still have to find another 24 gallery’s. In another life I started out as a salesman so...... Well size and frame taken care of huuummm price kinda figure will go for volume as a poster with frame or with out and keep the price low the icing on the cake I hope will be if someone want another print size lets call that special order. There is always the chance I have chosen the wrong image for my first one to sell... but am already working on number 2 Trash Art 0092 so if anyone out there has another suggestion well let me know.
Well that’s about it for now thanks to all those that have mailed me or sent me Pms don't be mad if I can answer all OMG............shipping costs packaging got to runnnnnn......

[I see a number of complaints about mods so I thought something needed to be said.]

In college we would number our prints (e.g. print 17 of 25). This was usually a feature of silk screen or intaglio prints (although I did sometimes see photos done this way) and the idea is that the artist makes a limited printing of the image, say, no more than 50 or 100, and the addition of the print number indicates that this purchase was from a limited edition. That often increases the value, but you have to decide how many to print and never print more. Otherwise you're not being honest with your clients.

I personally prefer black frames for b&w or near-b&w images, with one or two mats. If the image is true b&w I make the inner mat (1/4" exposed) a deep black (with the inside of the matboard a white material instead of black—that's too much black), and the outer mat a medium charcoal or a brilliant white, depending on the mood I'm trying to enhance. If there is a small amount of a distinct color in the image, say the orange of a swan's bill, I try to match that color for the inner mat.

When matting, determine first how much mat you want across the top and sides of your image (don't be chinzy but also don't go crazy). For an 16 x 20 image I would probably use 2" to 2-1/2" mat space top and sides. This next is a matter of taste but I find that increasing the side and top mat measurement by 1.5 for the bottom (so that if the sides and top exterior mat was 2" then the bottom mat would be 3"), it gives weight and balance to the whole combination of image, mat and frame.

Oftentimes, the presentation of art can either taint or enhance the image. It's something rather important to keep in mind. For examples, visit a local art or photo gallery to see the variety of presentation styles and to determine what you'd like to do with yours. Look for what's done to images similar in composition and color to yours.

-Nik

ahh who knows i would just listen to nik

i dont know what files your working off of but if they are the same as what youve posted here they are to lowres for that type of a print.

nik not be prying or anything but lets say a guy was wanting to buy a modest size piece off you what would he be looking at?

I do freelance design and photography (as well as for the agency I've worked for, for over 30 years) and I don't like charging exorbitant rates. An 11" x 14" print (that I print myself) I would probably sell for $25 to $30, print only, a little less than what a local camera shop prints and sells this size for. (I've seen photos in galleries with price tags 2 to 3 times that much... I think that's too much.) If matted and framed I would add the price of the frame, mat and glass (and shipping, if that's applicable) and then I add another 50-60%, so if the completed item costs $50, I would add the $25 for the print and another $25 for the profit margin. Unless they do this sort of work for themselves, most people don't realize what it actually costs to put a print in a nice mat and frame. They think that if you are selling the photo or art print, then the frame should be fairly cheap.

I buy my matboard locally but my frames from American Frame. The selection, price, quality and expertise of the people cutting and packing the frames are all museum appropriate. I should know... that's my full-time job.

-Nik

What a treasure of information, Nik. Thank you (and Les) for taking the time to share this topic with us all.
-Christie

Well what have I learned image size should be 1 on 1 true size. 300 dpi is the best resolution more is of no use does not make a better image less does exmpele 300 dpi, 109mmx152mm (A) 1287 pixels x 1796 pixels is a true size so lets say 300 is a lot of pixels any very small and for example 72 dpi really big pixels so its kinda like if you have big wooden building blocks you will never build a Lego fire station so big pixels for printing is not good. 300 dpi is just right and 72 96 dpi etc are just wrong. CYMK is a professional print standard found and used in Photo shop huuummm will get back to that one in my next post.

The use of CMYK or RGB is determined by the software and printer you're using. I use RGB and run an EPSON 1400 Photo Printer (13" x 19" max.) and an EPSON 9880 Photo Printer (44" x 100' roll max.) I also seldom print 300 dpi. I mentioned this before but when I adjust my photos in Photoshop, I create a 600 dpi TIF for printing quality images, a 450 dpi JPEG for small photo-album-size prints and for sharing in emails, and a 300 dpi PNG for the screen, only (if I'm creating a power point I use lower-rez dpi GIFs that actually reduce the data size by removing some of the colors). Whoever told you that you don't need bigger than than 300 dpi for quality prints probably figured you were only making small prints.

-Nik

Well its Friday went to the copy shop today were I was having Trash Art 0114 printed my first image in print and knowing that all the above is true I had some misgivings about what I was going to get so when the lady asked if I would like to see the poster well almost said no but mumbled alright not sure if I wanted to share the the moment. Well she rolled out the poster and my heart jumped so much better than I ever hoped for the lady said oh your the man from Trash Art very nice she said so after paying the bill and walking to the car I new some how something had changed. So on the way home I figured it out I was always pumping out pictures but never had the idea than something was finished until today. So I can only say if you have never printed something go for it what..... a Rush.

:D :D :D :D :D

-Nik

again congrats

(*waits patiently by mailbox for the cookies that he knows is coming.. soon.. he hopes.. 'cause ... it's raining..*)


It is exciting living this experience and process vicariously through you, Rob. Best of luck with your showing at the gallery. :o)


(Side note: Link to image that Rob had printed - "Trash Art 0114")

I quote Les“It is exciting living this experience and process vicariously through you, Rob. Best of luck with your showing at the gallery. :o).....”
Well as I said what a Rush and thank you Les always sharp as a pin with always some words of wisdom. My posting today is to show the finished poster and about the piratical when I pick up the posters did not have a carrier for the posters did get a crease in one because they were rolled up and I laid them in the back seat of my car Hummmmpff that was aggro. Next the frame is causing a lot of grief it's not one of the run of the mill images. So this is were you have to realize it's going to hang it somewhere and people are not going to pay you good money for a bad or not fitting frame Hummpffff and I though I was there so not. Well choices to be made I have in past done Glass Art painting and have made some very decorative Art work so am thinking about painting my own frame onto a oversized glass pane I known I can make that work but its about 15 to 20 hours work. Well another problem is I have a job were I can not start up a business with out permission from my director that should be not problem as it does not conflict with my work but still have to fill out the form. Then there's the tax man will have to get a bookkeeper for the sales tax. And then the gallery invite one store in Rotterdam huuummmm so did the google thing and wooooww galleries galore in Holland so as it's taking a little longer than I had hoped am reassessing...... found a gallery that's in Rotterdam den Haag and Amsterdam hope they will take my work but they do want a finished product. It's like this if your selling Arts and Crafts to friends it's no problem but the next step …... well if your going to do it you get one chance to do it right not complaining but did not think it threw am usually not that brain dead but after the up there's the down to work threw. Again I would like to thank so many of the Caedes members who in there comments and Pms comment, advise and support with kind words.

Have a look see, Rob:

Art Supply Storage

In particular, and not so hard on the wallet:

Alvin Ice Storage Tube

"This 37" transparent mailing/storage tube has a 2-3/4" inside diameter. One end of the tube is permanently sealed while the other end can be screwed on and off for easy access to your documents.

The tube is moisture proof and features a adjustable shoulder strap for convenient portability."

Alvin Mailing Tube, Fiberboard, Orange

Make mention of the above, as my brother (commercial illustrator) has used these.

... ...

Other words of wisdom for the day..

"Don't cook and do your Caedesing at the same time."

(*looks at pot of pasta now all stuck together..*)

Yet one more sacrifice in the name of art. ;o)

Thanks Les. I really like that Ice Tube. Planning on buying several for my office (all I have right now are leftover tubes that were mailed to me).

-Nik

i want some of those

Sometimes, it's not the fault of the way the image is prepared...Some of the damn printing equipment (and related replacement color rods, cartridges, etc) that is capable of exact duplication the HQ image carry ridiculously high price tags!

This is for those who have a Sam's Club in there area and would like to sell some of there work.

I have been selling 12x16's and 16x20's for over four years now. Cost of a 12x16 at Sam's ....$2.96, for One print or a hundred. Sell Price....$15.00.

16x20's Cost, $5.96......Sell Price.....$25.00. Huge profit margin and quality is as good as anywhere else. Best part is if you do not like how the image turned out you don't have to buy it.



Try Sam's Club, I think you will be highly surprised and very pleased.

~ .. bump bump ~