This article is posted to help regenerate site growth through discussion, & everyone is welcome the more the better. It is not designed to inflame management or anyone else. Naturally I want management to take an active role here because without them nothing can be done, & this thread will be a waste of time!

I first joined Caedes as member philflossman after a friend Simon Wildgoose introduced me to it. At first I simply started commentating on the amazing images (o: the site had an awful lot of active talented artists then. It was 2007 I still had my old film SLR, & felt encouraged to take shots again, & simply scanned the prints to the PC with just one basic image editor. To cut a long story short the first results were awful but artists took me under their wing, & gently led me forward, a year later I bought my first digital bridge camera, & changed my username to gonedigital there was still essential techniques to learn, & artists continued to inspire me through their dazzling uploads, & helpful critique. Those days are just memories now, & practically all those helpful talented artists have long gone. )o:

Caedes doesn't record, & publish "user online" stats to us but despite this anyone who's been here more than three years know they've dramatically dropped, while all the excellent / professional photographers seem to have gone. I could mention many but shall not unless asked later. Another point worth mentioning is in the earlier years we had younger artists but today it seems the average age is perhaps fifty five plus.

This site has been slowly dying for years, & the only mention of it is in old threads posted by none active artists *caedes appears indifferent, & needs to show us he still loves his baby, unless this downward trend is stopped Caedes will not only be history to none active artists but to the www as well.

Are you content to see Caedes deteriorate further, losing more valued friends, & seeing site traffic reduce to a slow trickle? or do you still love what it used to be like like me? Please help save Caedes before it's too late, & enter this important discussion now, all input will be useful. (o:

I beg to differ...Remember, it's not just all about photography, it's art in general...Give it more time...I'm starting to see a few new faces and some new styles...

I don't know about the statistics, but the quality has definitely gone down. But I don't know what can be done about it. I'm probably offending people just by saying that.

In order for people to improve, they have to recognize that their work needs improvement, see better work to inspire them and give them an idea what's possible, and put time and effort into learning how to improve (that's where I'm stuck right now!). Otherwise we'll just get a steady stream of mediocre work.

But that takes individual effort. I don't know what the site leadership could do to encourage that, except by raising the bar for submissions to be accepted.

The "old" caedes.net was brimming with talented people, but also with those willing to give, and more importantly, receive constructive critique. But a growing backlash wave of resentment took hold, and people wanted to just post whatever, and have praise, or at least gentle, cuddly comments made. The place stagnated, and then began an ever steepening nosedive.

Add to that, the constant bitching and moaning, aimed at the mods, and Geri (*caedes) himself. One member went so far as to root out his personal non-Caedes email address at work and hounded him there. In an extraordinary showing of tolerance, he neither banned the member, nor shut down the site. I think most of us, myself included, would've done one or both in a heartbeat.

But all this negativity had to have left a sour taste in many mouths.

Keeping the site as this insular little club is going to guarantee that it stays in the same state of ruin.

Sad, really.

"Keeping the site as this insular little club is going to guarantee that it stays in the same state of ruin."


If you care about the site - then do something about it - give some constructive critique, shower the site with your images, become involved again. Appearing to give an opinion on the state of the place each time there is a question raised is admirable but actions speak louder than words.

one big difference form now and "Back in the Day" is the ability to upload more then one thing.when im working on something not unlike alot of people they share what they are doing with other people that are working on stuff then take it down after you would get input on that version.
a guy could go on all day about things that used to be that are no longer
so my suggestion would be to give a bit more freedom to the people that come here and see what happens.

Using and commenting under an anonymous name is a violation of the Code of Conduct.

Please do not use this name again to either upload or comment.

Thank you.

Lyn, I've done all of the things you've listed. Did the full-on "return home" thing too. I've pretty much given up on that front. Having the frame of reference of experiences at other sites has helped put my time here in the proper perspective.

But it's funny. You isolate a portion of what I said, and didn't really address it.

Same ol' same ol' I guess. Attack the one pointing out that the emperor (the site in this case, not the founder, just to be clear) has no clothes. Brilliant.

Rob, I am sorry you saw my comment as an 'attack' on you.
It wasn't.
I thought I was addressing what I perceived to be your conclusion following the opinion you gave before.
I stand by my comment 'actions speak louder than words'.
Your belief that the site is in a 'state of ruin' is not shared by everyone. See THIS discussion.
Harking back to the old days when the membership was much larger does nothing to alter anything in the present. Yes, many very talented members have left/moved on/ died but there are still talented members posting and helping where they can.
You left, you came back with your new 'frame of reference of experience at other sites' but you say you have pretty much given up on that front. I don't understand why you are concerned about the status quo, if you have found somewhere else that better suits your preferences.
Many members here have had experiences at other sites, myself included. Some stay away, some come back, and some never leave caedes. Some credit should be given to those who are here and contributing. You became a member shortly after me and things have changed very much since then. I have also seen 'other sites' degenerate and disappear completely in that time. caedes.net is still here, open to all, novice or expert.
If you no longer want to contribute your work or comments which in the past were valued and respected then that is your choice.

LE

third_eye / Rob has been on this site for many years now, and is certainly qualified to make a valid comment, however I give LynEve / LE some credit for suggesting he become active again, but disagree when she suggests the site is not in a state of ruin as so many active / long established artists are in a state of denial.

Upon reflection perhaps I can understand third_eye / Robs reluctance to re-establish himself, maybe the thought's too daunting.

It's Caedes responsibility to retain a vibrant active website, until this is resolved many old non active artists wont become active, nor will talented artists join, and it's such a shame. )o: I've visited quite a few non active artists homepages, and noticed that many still log on, clearly they still care about Caedes but have no incentive to upload or comment.

Perhaps one very important question we should all ask ourselves is why has *caedes / Caedes management [notice some haven't logged on for years] allowed this to happen?

For myself I've always enjoyed Caedes friendly atmosphere but right now I'm reluctant to upload or comment, this reminds me of [a very well respected] non active artist phasmid / Peejs refusal to upload years ago before finally going silent.

If I may weigh in on this thread: I found Caedes some years ago while searching for desktop images for my computer. My 60-80 hour work weeks, and young family did not allow much time to pick up a camera, nor did I know a lick about Photoshop. Since then, I retired and time provided the opportunity to get more involved in photography, beginning to post some photos on Caedes, receive suggestions, both on photos and in messages, and, coupled with other studying, grow in photography. After this windy introduction, there are several comments to be made:
First, this is Caedes: Desktop Wallpaper; therefore it has a defined purpose and is not a place where a professional photographer will 'grow the business', as has been a criticism on another thread. A benefit of this site has been the commentary that participants provide.
Second, currently, there are many more photo site opportunities than years ago - both for amateur and professional. Some are free, some have monthly / annual fees. Caedes allows both free and fee participation - and the fee is very inexpensive - not a bad deal.
Third, time has a way of allowing us to look upon the past through a lens that recalls the pleasant and discards that which is less so. Perhaps, in prior years, there were more participants on Caedes. However, in the past there were postings that were not of high caliber, as well as very fine work. As with any genre of art, beauty in in the eyes of the beholder. Critique may be welcomed by some, received as hurtful by others. Perhaps, adding 'Critique welcomed' to the narrative, or even a critique checkbox, would be the call sign that the posting artist wants viewers to offer opinion and suggestions for improvement.
Fourth, over time, people have come, gone, and some returned to Caedes. That is the nature of any group, especially on the Internet. For some, leaving the site was caused by a lack of time or changing priorities, others finding a different site on which to post photos, and yet others upset at the behavior of some other site participants. Several left because they were frustrated that none of their photos were promoted to the Main Gallery.
Is the site dead? No.
Are the number of participants fewer than years ago? Yes.
One suggestion: If you notice a Caedes friend not posting or commenting, send them a message that they are missed, encouraging them to post an image, or offer a critique of your recent post. The network of encouraging friends can help sustain the site's vibrancy.

Thank you for your comment Thad naturally I'm pleased that you have time for photography now, & have found Caedes a helpful website.

I realise Caedes was designed as wallpaper website, in October 2005 PC Magazine named it in their top 101 websites, so whether people do or don't wear rose tinted glasses in recalling the past is of no relevance here. I've just done a "desktop wallpaper" web search, & didn't find Caedes anywhere, perhaps the fact that few uploaded images here are at 1920x1080 pixels plays a role, gone are the days of low definition 4x3 monitors.

It's good you support Caedes, & enjoy it Thad that is everyones goal, I thought you made a particularly useful comment about sending pms to non active members encouraging them to post. I've been doing that for a long time now, & had very little success, perhaps if everyone made the effort things would alter.

Phil, before you point out the absence of former talented artists let me ask you - how active have you been here? I know that you had very long periods of absence. If everyone else dd that Caedes will come to a dead stop. I have been a member since May 2006 and have posted over 1200 photos here. So let us try and keep this site alive. Criticism is good but then a regular (with short intervals) presence here is also required to keep the site going.

I don't know how your web searches did not find Caedes Phil

Google search (Maxthon Browser)for 'desktop wallpaper free'
Results 19,000,000
Caedes Desktop Wallpaper comes in at number 18, first on third page of my search




Google search (Google Chrome Browser) for 'computer desktop wallpaper free' there are 31,000,000 results and Caedes comes in at #30

Okay here is my thought on this one: I have been a member since Sept. 2006, I found it by seeing it mentioned by Kim Komando.

I would just visit,and view, and finally it motivated me to give it a try. My first efforts were with a fuji finepix. I now have several big DSLR's and have developed a love for photography that was always hidden inside, and this site has brought out it.

I see less activity from years ago, but things in our lives can change in a heart beat. Some might have health issues, family problems to deal with etc. I'm sure that some lost interest too.I have lost some of my old friends, but I have made new ones as well. I have tried a couple of other sites, and still for me this site is the one I prefer. I do know it can get pretty generic as for the commenting on our images. I think the suggestion of a check box for constructive advice is a good idea, or just include it in your narrative. I do feel however that for some they will just continue to give generic comments, maybe because they really do not have anything to offer to make an image better. We are all on different levels of skill, and as for me I love the fractals, but I have no knowledge of how they are done, so I sure am not one to offer a suggestion on something I have never tried, but it does not stop me from enjoying them. There have been times for me that after giving a suggestion, I could read the negativity in a pm. So when I do give a suggestion, I choose my words carefully. Part of the problem with the internet too is the fact that once you type and click send it is out there, and there is no taking it back, and our words can be so taken out of context, and not everyone likes critique.

I really do not know what to suggest other than the critique idea stated above. There are still some very talented people on caedes, and some offer some very good advice, and I have found that If I pm someone with a question, they are almost always happy to respond.

Raj mentioning my absence from the site, & lack of image uploads compared to yours has very little relevance to this topic, & I feel this is personal attack. If you want to expand on the subject then please send me a private pm.
When individual artists decide to have absences for whatever reason there is a always valid explanation for it, & it wouldn't have an adverse effect on a healthy / popular website. Indeed I could argue that far fewer people will be absent from a healthy / popular website simply because the vast majority are happy.

In response to Lyns question I used Google UK search engine, after shifting through 15 pages I quit, remember there are always regional differences on top of which Google tailors their results to a surfers browsing habits.

Finally to Sandi who has been a good friend to me for a long time I totally agree with you that Caedes is a friendly website, & artists are often very helpful. It's a shame that so many people are afraid to use critique when warranted, & so easily resort to false praise instead. Unlike some websites all comments can be edited, so remember any mistakes can be corrected.

Phil, You are a good friend indeed, and I hope you remain on Caedes. I think that for those like yourself who take absence from the site can cause people to omit you from their friends list, thinking your not going to be around anymore. I leave them on mine, because like yourself I'm pleasantly surprised when I see them return, and post. I do feel this should be a fun site, and also a learning site as well.

I won't name the person, but for awhile they were always redoing my images, and sending them to me by email, it is someone who I have not heard from in a long time, I just got to the point that I did not respond to their emails. I would just get a generic word like "Nice" and then when they did not like my post, they would rework it. That got old for me, and took away from the fun for me, and I gave thought to not posting, but by ignoring them, they stopped. I still get some very helpful advice from a good friend up in Canada, and a few others, and I hope they continue to offer their constructive tips. Advice is always good in my book, when offered in a constructive way. I do appreciate my friends who offer their suggestions, I try to take note, and remember what they said. As for my other friends, I guess we are not all on the same page so to speak, so I take it in stride, I want to continue on with my photography, and share, and learn, and try to offer help to others, but sometimes I just don't have anything to offer. We are all so different in many ways, but we do share photography as a hobby, but we all take to it differently, so I don't know how you could really change things.

Your absence was just mentioned as an example Phil. No offense meant whatsoever. Sorry if you misunderstood my point.

When a response is asked for and a response is given, apparently only a short one is acceptable... so.... okay... I'm trying to stick with Caedes but it's getting increasingly harder. Have you ever looked at the list of current online participation in the left column, under "User Stats?" It's steadily getting smaller.

-Nik

So well said Nik! :) =^..^=

I don't really have any input on this matter...I try to post something different (or @ least a new entry from a different series) as often as I can...It's the best I can do...As I have said in the past, I regard this site as a peaceful and pleasant alternative to the "zoos" - and I MEAN "zoo" - that have little to offer except blatant nastiness and disrespect for others (such as DeviantArt and a few other sites), that often are filled with skippies that contribute little or nothing, and possess caustic attitudes...thinking everything there is only meant for THEM!

Ron, I think the clue is in the word 'community' in the caedes description. Something lacking in many other sites. With only a few exceptions members here are willing to help others with their art and actually care about them as people as well. That is something to be appreciated and nurtured.

Yes it is Lyn, well said.

Such a very long comment Nik, making it very difficult to condense your type into several main responses over the issues I've raised. This often creates misinterpretation so I'm unable to return a valid reply.

Welcome to Caedes, the Desktop Wallpaper and Artist Community

Caedes is a close community of artists, designers, and photographers who share their work through the medium of computer desktop wallpaper. Feel free to browse the galleries, comment on other's work, and even submit your own art when you're ready. Sign up for a free username to access all features.

painting a blank image my idea of art didnt say where i had to post it.

condensed version STFU or hit the road

im googlin condensed to see if that weelll we gotts it

ooooo nice that ones right.now to golalificat the rest+community keep you posted

WOW im not getting the same vibe as the "REST" of the "WORLD" gets from "'community'" as you do.

why not let people dump stuff on the site?

^ Typical dA "Skippy" ^ :P

^ Typical Caedes "Skippy" ^ :P

you want people to post?then let people post

^What's your excuse? I see no art or image submissions from you..^

Mucho heckling, but no art...:P

Other than keep things the same iI have no advice.

Umm trolls their tasty (o: wanna bread roll? I'll even butter it for you.

good ole fashion FaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaYou i like it getting back to the roots.........were do i sign up?

bu$tin ball$ isnt going to get look$ee.its not an art $ite.its not a photo $ite.its not a $it around and B$ $ite.WTF is it?for once in thinkin its a $ite problem.

It's all very well to have nice comments even on an image that isn't particularly good but That doesn't help people improve.A critique must be followed by advice on how to improve an image..I feel some of the restrictions imposed on this site have curtailed some of the undoubted talent out there..An instance could be found perhaps in street photography..Some excellent opportunities are out there for this form of imagery but then you take a great picture and somewhere in the background may be a Macdonalds sign or an advert for some kind of product or other and the picture is binned by a mod...I find this totally frustrating and the other sites I post to have no such restrictions..I too have noticed a gradual decline in members on the site and I believe it is down to a large extent that people can't post an image other than a Landscape,Waterfall,Bird,..I mean I had a still life Featuring a Rolex watch...Will I post it..I think not,I mean it has ROLEX on it and that's not allowed...Sorry but the site Stifles a lot of creativity,So I'm afraid members will continue to get ..Oh,That's a nice image remarks,Myself..I call in now and again but that's it...R.

R. I understand about the ads in pics. and get what your saying. But! I don't think that is what leads to generic comments. I think it is because people don't want to hurt feelings, so they don't offer the good points and bad ones in an image.
I know this has been discussed before.
I do know that some members do get put out if you offer a suggestion, so I have learned who too, and who not too. :)
Photography is an expression of ourselves, and we all see things in a different light.
As for the site lacking or declining, people leave yes, but new ones also join.
If we would go to the new members section, and friend or at least comment on their post (myself included) which I do some. That helps to make someone feel welcome, and maybe appreciated.
As for the ads that is something that was decided along time ago, and we all know the rules, like them or not. :)
I think to keep the site healthy, we need to respect the rules, follow them, and not try to rip, cover up, and mess with the mods and members of Caedes. For me this is still the best site around, and I want to treat it with respect, and enjoy the images, and my good friends.
It would be nice if we did not have to worry about the ads, etc. that might be in an image, but that is something only Jerry can change, the mods are just trying to follow what has been laid out for the site.

First remark from SOS HQ: the thread seem to be highly infected by some trolls:)
More to come later.
SAM, SOS HQ TBB HH ML[=SOS Headquarters, Top Big Boss, High Honours, Most Loving]

I think what we need here is to address the issues as they appear.
The first is the decline in Caedes members; the second is comment quality and the third which seems of surprisingly big importance now - product placement.

If we make a good definition of what product placement is and what is just a Rolex or any other name on a watch, then the problem would become easier to solve. Some of us, Chris too once had to rework his "Off" allegedly product placement :) - it seems a little funny that we should be bothered with evasion of this phenomenon while from the legal point of view "product placement is not just showing an image but encouraging its purchase or acquisition in any other manner". In any case approach to product placement cases, if any, is subject to individual mods & their moods, nature and /or willingness or its lack to support some really otherwise good image. This is a minor thing - we can always clone some little items:)

As to decline in members I would like to hear from Caedes authorities in respect of most recent and reliable statistics.

And then as to commenting - I agree with SAS [Sandi Tigz] - some [or in fact majority of] people simply are oversensitive and any [strong] negative critique must necessarily be accompanied by encouraging and positive note. Les is good at that I think while Samatar for instance is not [not being personal LOL]. But then who for heaven's sake has that much time to write novels in lieu of comments...? LOL
But then again comments like those referred to by our sweet Richie: "Wow what a ..." or similar can be and probably should be just replaced by simply leaving a sign of having been to watch or as I sometimes do [even to a friend]:"Approved by SAM & SAAB", trusting that this is understood - not always one has the time or mood to act as an intellectual fountain.

This is what I think and since this is a democratic site even morons like myself are allowed to speak up.

Yours otherwise most respectable and dignified
SAM
& less dignified, if at all
SAAB

It's been some time since I last weighed in on one of these lengthy discussions, having done so numerous times over the years and finding on ocassion it took a lot of stamina and carefully chosen words...but as this appears a friendly and constructive discussion I'll try to add a few cents worth, hoping some of it may be worthwhile...

First off, kudos to SAM for zeroing in on what seems the major thrust of the conversation...that being declining membership, generic comments, and to some extent, the COC and what we can and cannot do or show in our imagery.

With respect to declining membership, there has been many ups and downs over the years. I don't necessarily think it takes site stats to know when things are in a state of decline...we 'regulars' can tell...not sure if it was Nik or Thad that made the very valid point that increasing numbers of other art/photography/wallpaper sites now available on the internet, and all with their various pros and cons would certainly account for some of it...as does and has already been mentioned, work, health, family reasons, and sometimes site morale...so most of that, with the exception of site morale, we really have little control over.

The question then becomes how do we who really care about this site help to avoid further decline and in fact help the site to flourish...

With such a diversity of membership it's always going to be somewhat tricky to 'please all of the people all of the time'...and by diversity, I refer not only to personality types but also skill level and art genres as well.

We have some highly skilled and professional artists here as well as the fledgling just discovering their interests and abilities, and the bulk of us somewhere in between. We want to keep our skilled artists while continuing to welcome the newbies.

While the more skilled artists may for a time, enjoy the praise and admiration they rightfully deserve, I suspect that could wear thin after awhile...so we need to keep them interested and in fact challenged if we hope to keep them in our midst. One way might be in the type of contest themes we come up with, trying to be a little more creative, challenging, with more 'out of the box' thinking. Another way might be in inquiring as to whether some of them have the time and inclination to offer the rest of us some tutorials etc...it's nice to feel needed in other words...and obviously, keeping the site fun, friendly, caring etc. goes a long way too...the off-topic discussion boards used to be a place of great fun and merriment...would be nice to see more activity there.

With regard to art genres, there's been a huge decline in CGI artists over the years...at one time this site leaned much more heavily in that direction and not so much photography...so those existing members involved in that type of art and would like to see more of that return might ask themselves how they might generate more interest and activity in their area of expertise...again, maybe offering up tutorials or making use of the member-initiated board to suggest their own little challenges etc...and has often been stated in the past, the rest of us need to keep them well in mind when suggesting contest themes.

We welcome all newbies regardless of skill and so not to discourage any we have to tread lightly at first with regards to comments...after awhile you can get a feel for who does and who doesn't wish to improve and who will or won't take offense.

I'll be the first to put my hand up with respect to generic comments...sometimes it's a time factor or a 'wow' intended to portray the emotional impact an image may have on me, and sometimes it's a regard for the greater skill that person has compared to myself, not wanting to presume I have any worthwhile advice to offer to another far more talented or knowledgeable...but all that aside, I would heartily agree we all need to be a little more helpful and constructive in our feedback according to our own individual knowledge and comfort level.

With regards to product/ads etc. in imagery...I can understand the frustration having had the odd image of my own rejected for such reasons but unless you are heavily into that type of imagery I don't think it a major detractor to the site...one can always inquire of Geri if he has any plans to revise his thinking on that, citing the examples of other sites and their policies...he has been very accommodating in the past regarding the wishes of the majority...beyond that, not much we can do there.

Well, I don't know how helpful or worthwhile this has been to wade through but there's some very random thoughts from me.

To conclude will leave you with a little expression I heard one time...'ideas are funny little things...they only work if you do'...so we should all ask ourselves what WE can do as individuals to improve the site...don't always wait on 'the other guy'.

Re: products/ads and the like...would also add that there's also the option, sometimes at least, and with the know-how, to edit, blur, (whatever) the offending 'thing' out that might otherwise make an image 'unacceptable'...recognizing, of course, that isn't always possible and sometimes may detract from the overall visual one wants to present...just an afterthought.

Oh...one more thing (to the annoyance of some and amusement of 'certain' others)...way back there used to be a lot more collaboration between artists, which didn't just improve the quality of images, but in the case of some unusual alliances, made for some very unique and fascinating imagery (i.e. two heads better than one or fractalist teams up with photographer etc.)...so more of that might be another way to inject some new ideas, interest, and motivation to the site...ok, I'll be quiet now.

Hi All!

First, I must state that ANY rejection/questioning of an image is not due to the mods mood.That would really be awful. Honest :)

*caedes chooses to follow the DMCA (copyright infringements)..they are his, not a mods.

If any artist wants to post an image and is unsure if it violates the CoC or if it appropriate to upload please feel free to email it to me first.

Richie, email me that Rolex image. I will take a look at it ;)

mimi@caedes.net

Referring to adverts: they cannot be the focus of the image, meaning in a prominent position in the image.

Any one of the artists is free to start up a contest like LynEve did with the B&W challenge.

I will gladly help/guide anyone who desires to do this, just ask :)

Generic comments have been a point of contention since I have been a member (02-14-04) so I doubt they are going away any time soon. As pointed out, there are multiple reasons for them occurring.

Fractal artists left the site due to their work not drawing any interest. It took me a few years to really enjoy AND critique a fractal.

I too miss them :)

Lastly, this is the Internet. People leave for a variety of reasons, other join, some stay, some don't.

We do have a nice influx of new(er) members....I love watching them progress :)

Remember, any questions, comments etc, feel free to PM me or email me (address above)

Keep posting!

Image of the Rolex has been deleted Mimi..I bought it in Malaysia and when I got it home found the thing didn't wind up...A copy no doubt..I was well stung but it looked so good....I deleted the image a good 3 years ago....Time marches on :)....R.

Thank you mimi! Now if someone has a question about an image they can just send it first, and ask. :)

It's good to get some valued comments again, (o: although it's a shame that Mimi is the only member of Caedes management to comment here and her role seems mainly defensive. I've read the new posts carefully then paused for thought.

Right now I'd just like to respond to Richies new angle about product placement, I feel this is a grey area and far from black and white! Naturally many viewers don't want to see things like the latest iPhone but there are many occasions when a company logo is hard to avoid in an enjoyable photograph. Why should for instance a photograph of an old car be been banned simply because a viewer can see a Ford badge? btw isn't it funny how many such photographs still get accepted! I've seen bypassing of the rules elsewhere too. On one occasion there was a row of soft drink bottles displayed with the manufactures front label centrally displayed, I didn't like that! even after hitting the complaint button the upload was still there weeks later. It works the other way too, a friend uploaded a superb photograph of a Triumph motorcycle ages ago, the mods removed it despite his objections, strange that there are so many Harley Davidson motorcycle photographs on this site. If the no product placement rule was rigidly adhered to there'd be little or no street photography either as Richie said and I for one object to that.

To summarise my opinion on product placement I'd like to see the rules slackened and firmly enforced without prejudice.

Phil,

So sorry you feel I was/am defensive.

I assure you I am not :)

Also, if you have a question about an uploaded or rejected image, you can always PM or email me:)

Have a great weekend!


mimi :-)

LOL long story short

To be clear about product placement - with apologies for uneven enforcement of the rules, we do our best, and sometimes stuff goes into a decision that you may not realize. We ask that you have as much patience with us, as we do with you - these are the key factors that determine whether a logo or other copyrighted image can be part of the composition of an image:

1) It has to be incidental, and not the focus. Meaning that if you removed the logo/material from the shot, the rest of the shot would still stand on its own as a composed and meaningful shot.

2) It needs to be unavoidable. It would not be possible to compose any version of the shot without including the logo/material.

I hope that makes it clearer as to what passes the muster and what doesn't. But please don't pass the mustard. I am not a mustard person.

Thank you Cat for your valid response, here's a question for you, I have a photograph of a Triumph motorcycle the manufactures name is dominant on the large tank badge. Would it be accepted onto Caedes and secondly is this upload within COC rules?

Hi Phil,

1) Provided that the tank is not the focus of the image. I.e. you're not cropping in to show just the tank, where the name is dominant. If you're showing the whole bike, such that the focus is the bike, there's no issue.

2) It is within COC, although I would prefer that the name be changed to de-emphasize the brand. The brand is basically incidental to the composition here. While the shot is cropped in, the focus is the lens itself and the manufacturer's name is a small sidenote.

Having ended my last post with mustard references, I was tempted to make ketchup ones at the end of this one... but I decided I don't want to be that cheesy. Don't you feel relieved?

Thanks Cat you've made several issues clear now, btw mustard is good but tomato ketchup just ain't natural. ;o)

what is going on here? pretty much nothing start to end nothing this thread /Caedes is a shadow of its former self/ waste of any and everyones time that poped in

...When some of the long-standing contributors start really getting peeved about posts and policies, things are not looking good...

Just my 2c.........

Ironically, the fact that long-term members are taking issue with rules that pre-date their arrival to the site either means someone developed selective amnesia or needs to maybe, as the sign said elsewhere, check their ego at the door.

As for the posts.... as you say in your tag line... put up or, well, you know the rest. ;-)

C'ya.

Quite a few things suggested on this thread, I have done already in my gallery:

1) Tributes to other Caedes members

2) Collabs with other members...

3) Series formats (following a general theme with a number of posts)

4) Diversification

5) As far as "product/ad placement" is concerned, I create my own - and I highly doubt you will ever see that stuff in any store inventories! :P

- I have done more than my share, I would think...

Also, remember all that above all else, this is an ARTIST community... Within the art world (as it has been for countless centuries) you're going to have different perceptions on what actually is and what isn't (from the artist's point-of-view, as well as the observer/critic), inflated and/or bruised egos, and most of all - jealousy over someone else's work or style (Real BIG issue, that one - Green Monster reigns supreme)...

If you're the type that is easily angered or offended, then maybe you should seek a less stressful pastime other than art...

Your last two last paragraphs really rang a bell Ron, for me it's a shame when an artist culls or removes their work and perhaps leaves due to inflamed passions. To echo another point of yours, it should be made clear the Caedes community isn't always as friendly as it first appears.
Like families or relationships there's always disagreements.

I don't think anyone here is questioning 'what is art'...we all have a different eye for it...and yes, there are always going to be some disagreements...we just need to try to not let it get out of hand as it has a very demoralizing effect on the site as a whole...as for culling, I will do a certain amount of that myself when I look through my gallery and see stuff that I later wonder why on earth I posted it, being silly or sub-standard...but it IS a shame to see people delete their entire gallery and up and leave for merely a momentary disagreement...Rob (thirdeye) makes a very valid point about the rules being in place long before any of us showed up so we can hardly expect to come along and change things to suit ourselves...Geri (caedes) has been very accommodating in trying to keep the majority of the members happy...as for doing your part, I know you have Ron...just saying, it would be nice if we could all do more to try to get the place hopping more like it used to be.

it is what it is

As a relative newcomer, I'm a bit baffled about the process involved in promoting an image to the 'Main Galleries'. As far as I can tell and with the exception of the 'B & W Challenge' images, the last image to be promoted was on the 23/02/2015. Does that mean, that as a collective we haven't produced any images worthy of promotion for over a month?
Additionally, I believe that new images are only held for appraisal for a month. If that is the case, any relevant person deciding what should be promoted will have images that have dropped out of the inclusion zone (last promotion 23/02/2015 - now 28/02/2015).
On reviewing the recent 'Main Galleries' content, the vast majority are 'B & W Contest' images.
Something is obviously amiss...

Apologies for the slightly drunken rant... :)

You've raised a few questions here MJ, I hope your not too discouraged though. Personally I think the imbalance needs correcting, but all we can do as artists is point things out. Only *caedes has the authority to make any site changes and he hasn't left a comment on this discussion yet.

gonedigital,
I've contributed to the 'B&W Challenge' and therefore have had a photo promoted to the Main Gallery because of it. However, I agree with your sentiment about the imbalance and personally think that images shouldn't be automatically promoted just because they're in that particular category.

I might be slightly drunk again... :)

The B/W Challenge images are promoted to the Main Gallery/Contests/B&W Challenge category, separate from other galleries.
The balance would be redressed if images from other New Images Galleries were promoted on a regular basis, as in the past.
It is a shame this is not happening, as it would add incentive for everyone which has been missing since the demise of the voting system and very few regular promotions being made.

Some images have been promoted to the 'Main Galleries', which is obviously a good thing.
However, a question about how images get promoted.
My understanding, is that Praetor's (and above?) are the only people who can promote images. As far as I can tell, only one such person has visited the site recently. If that is the case, does that mean that one person can unilaterally decide what images get promoted? If so, isn't there a danger of a bias being introduced into what sort of images get promoted?

Please note, I'm not trying to be petty or pedantic over this. I really like the format of the site and the active members are very friendly and welcoming, etc. It is certainly in my mind the best place to upload/display Wallpaper type images, just curious about the direction that the site is headed...

The above comment was written whilst sober!!!
Honest...
Hic!! :)

theres nothing to see here.hic the fa up.Honest the place needs a rescuctureifacatahic the fa up 4/20/09 serious its way to much trouble to post here.

Hey MJ,

Hope you don't mind, just going to cut to addressing a couple of points from your posts above, with respect to promotions to the Main Galleries.


"Additionally, I believe that new images are only held for appraisal for a month."

True.. but, the text to that end is a bit long in the tooth now, though.

Given the number of active Praetors, and not forgetting that this is a volunteer position.. promotions are not as frequent as they have been in the past.

However.. at the disposal of the Praetors is a search function that can readily and easily identify and sort images from any given time period/frame. The '30 day period' won't impede in any shape or form

Other than.. and perhaps.. creating some confusion on the part of members unfamiliar.

So..

"Additionally, I believe that new images are only held for appraisal for a month. If that is the case, any relevant person deciding what should be promoted will have images that have dropped out of the inclusion zone (last promotion 23/02/2015 - now 28/02/2015)."

... no worries in the above regard.


"My understanding, is that Praetor's (and above?) are the only people who can promote images."

Typically, promotions are the purview of Praetors. But, yes.. those above can also promote images as well.. as they have the necessary site permissions to do so and if inclined.


"As far as I can tell, only one such person has visited the site recently. If that is the case, does that mean that one person can unilaterally decide what images get promoted? If so, isn't there a danger of a bias being introduced into what sort of images get promoted?"

Again.. going back to what once was and when more site staff members were active.. the number of those promoting worked to ensure that the bias was mitigated.

Add to that.. some had strengths in certain genres over others.

To the meat of the matter of your query?

And in a word.. yes, bias is possible.


Some reading for you, if interested.. a lil' more historical perspective, if you will.. Caedes Art Council.

The Caedes Art Council was formed and implemented to engage the membership some more in the promotion of images to the Main Galleries.

I can't quite recall the exact times for inception, and then, that of it's function being disabled. Suffice to say, within the last couple of years.


If interested.. you could always put it up as a suggestion for it's operational consideration once again.. here ("What feature or change would you most like for caedes.net?").


Hope this clarifies things for you.

... ...

Oh, and this post was written in a non-caffeinated state.

So, bear with as I am moving a tad slow this morning. ;o)

Hi purmusic

Thanks for the detailed reply.

I think Caedes has got itself into a bit of an 'ever decreasing circle' type scenario.
The number of people submitting images drops off at some stage. Therefore, the Praetors log on less often as there is less for them to look at/administer and images don't get promoted to the Main Galleries as often as they did. Because of this, less people submit images and perhaps more importantly, casual visitors see a site that isn't perhaps as vibrant and dynamic as it should/could be and so the cycle continues...
Not sure about the 'Art Council'. Maybe long term users could comment? My only comment, is that I don't think there are enough active users to make it work.
I personally would favour a small panel of reviewers such as the Praetors, who decide as a group what gets promoted. However, that obviously means that they have to be actively involved in the site and that means more people, submitting more images...

MJ

Sober as a Judge. Not Rowley Birkin QC I hasten to add... :)

Important point..

"Because of this, less people submit images and perhaps more importantly, casual visitors see a site that isn't perhaps as vibrant and dynamic as it should/could be and so the cycle continues..."

... for a few reasons, and as noted.

To my mind.. having the Main Galleries 'refreshed' regularly (as abled) is the fulcrum point for members and visitors alike.

On my 'list of things to do'.

Thanks for the feedback, MJ.. it is appreciated and duly noted.

L

O

L

roll the clock back and hope people show up.

"Hope you don't mind, just going to cut to addressing a couple of points from your posts above, with respect to promotions to the Main Galleries.


"Additionally, I believe that new images are only held for appraisal for a month."

True.. but, the text to that end is a bit long in the tooth now, though.

Given the number of active Praetors, and not forgetting that this is a volunteer position.. promotions are not as frequent as they have been in the past.

However.. at the disposal of the Praetors is a search function that can readily and easily identify and sort images from any given time period/frame. The '30 day period' won't impede in any shape or form

Other than.. and perhaps.. creating some confusion on the part of members unfamiliar.

So..

"Additionally, I believe that new images are only held for appraisal for a month. If that is the case, any relevant person deciding what should be promoted will have images that have dropped out of the inclusion zone (last promotion 23/02/2015 - now 28/02/2015)."

... no worries in the above regard.


"My understanding, is that Praetor's (and above?) are the only people who can promote images."

Typically, promotions are the purview of Praetors. But, yes.. those above can also promote images as well.. as they have the necessary site permissions to do so and if inclined.


"As far as I can tell, only one such person has visited the site recently. If that is the case, does that mean that one person can unilaterally decide what images get promoted? If so, isn't there a danger of a bias being introduced into what sort of images get promoted?"

Again.. going back to what once was and when more site staff members were active.. the number of those promoting worked to ensure that the bias was mitigated.

Add to that.. some had strengths in certain genres over others.

To the meat of the matter of your query?

And in a word.. yes, bias is possible.


Some reading for you, if interested.. a lil' more historical perspective, if you will.. Caedes Art Council.

The Caedes Art Council was formed and implemented to engage the membership some more in the promotion of images to the Main Galleries.

I can't quite recall the exact times for inception, and then, that of it's function being disabled. Suffice to say, within the last couple of years.


If interested.. you could always put it up as a suggestion for it's operational consideration once again.. here ("What feature or change would you most like for caedes.net?").


Hope this clarifies things for you.

... ...

Oh, and this post was written in a non-caffeinated state.

So, bear with as I am moving a tad slow this morning. ;o)"

that shit applies how?

It was said years ago people wont show up to see and talk about stuff they can see and talk about elsewhere."Suffice to say" no SEEREIFIACTER's

that shit applies how that shit applies now

Wow! i made it to the end. half asleep but i made it.

forgive any typo's...im the one thats dead, not Caedes..death by boredom!

Now as this thread managed to evolve...just like everything in life does...so will Ceades! Im not as experienced as most of you here...yet it dont take a super genius to figure this one out.

I think reading this? was nothing more then time i could have spent designing and contributing, instead of tossing this can around thats going nooo where! infact the first can got dropped & it seems another one full of rediculious issues popped up and thrown again. change in life with everything is inevitable!...get use to it and learn to adapt, your time will be worthy instead of wasted by complaining.

i personally try to bring somethng to the table that was...well i suppose here some time back, or so i was told with my crazy manips. sure i have a few so called "snapshots" in my gallery. look a little closer & you will see pixels have been moved or changed to that photo in one way or another. i do have one straight from the card...imagine that! the camera got it right for once..guilty as charged! its one of my water falls.

Now i also love computer 3D and plan on running Vue, as soon as i get this new computer mod finished to handle the rendering.

Might i also add, right now my PC is about 10yrs old and running vista 32 bit with PS7 ..Nooo thats not a CS version...my PS is 15 yrs old..SURPRISE! yet it cant( and i wont let it) stop creativity from me!

take a look around...everyone has their own style, thier own work flow. i share mine! as many have shared thiers...how cool it that! so to say Caedes is dead? thats like loosing your job and having to down size your life style ..are you dead? no!! and the pendulum of life is at a never ending swing..up one moment and down the next.

I do agree with Lyneve,
dont like it? do something about it constructively! pick a new style, learn a new software, spread the word about Caedes. do as she did and start a new challenge if you're this bored.

It was also nice to see the Mods step in when asked to, most informative i have to admit :) ask and you will recieve, what a better way to end that note!
of course on other issues ask of them? which wasnt the start of this thread, by the way. Kudos to them and thier answers! im sure they were shaking their heads with replying to this, rather then picture approvel they seem to be accused of not doing? huummm...seems more time wasted!

the fact i even jumped in here says, i must be bored and need to get back to my photoshop....geeeze! i didnt even know this kind of stuff existed.

bye bye...oh yeah, heres the can back!

Stylo!

I caught the can and I'm going to hide the damn thing!

Nutz.

And here I was hoping for a game of 'kick the can' to spontaneously break out..

"Kick the Can"...

(Pfft!) Bad enough politicians do that! :P