Caedes

Desktop Wallpaper, Art, etc.

Discussion Board -> Desktop Wallpaper, Art, etc. -> Reposting

Reposting

J_272004
07/25/05 12:51 AM GMT
Some of you already know that Tommy has posted Silent Conversation 3 time in a day because each time he posts it it gets removed... I have asked why it is being removed.. I have been told by a mod that it is because it is reposted... if that is the case then quite a few of the new image gallery should be removed too.. I can name a few members who have "reposted" there work (I am NOT meaning reworks..) which are very very recent.. even a few have written in the description section.. "I have posted this image before.. hopefully it will stay longer this time and get more votes..." I have always thought Caedes has been pretty fair with things on here.. but this time its pick and choose which can be reposted i guess.... which is totally UNFAIR... i can understand if the orignal was a low index.. but it had a index of around or over 90... each time he has posted it yesterday (or today depending timezones) there were a few comments, views and downloads.. if as I have been told that you cant repost.. make it a rule and be consistant.. because at the moment... there are a lot who are doing it and the images are exactly the same as previous postings and are still there...and I HAVE PROOF... I dont get involved very often on discussion like this but im angry at the fact that its ok for some and not for others...
0∈ [?]
"I wrote your name on a piece of paper but by accident I threw it away... I wrote your name on my hand but it washed away... I wrote your name in the sand but the waves whisked it away.... I wrote your name in my heart and forever it will stay........."

Comments

Post a Comment  -  Subscribe to this discussion
::June
07/25/05 1:25 AM GMT
I do not wish to debate this but I will back up my friend Jacqueline by saying that many have reposted non edited or reworked images that were posted previously and that we should be consistent with the rules.
JuneBug
0∈ [?]
"A picture is worth a thousand words"
J_272004
07/25/05 1:26 AM GMT
Thanks June for your support... I appreciate it... =D
0∈ [?]
"I wrote your name on a piece of paper but by accident I threw it away... I wrote your name on my hand but it washed away... I wrote your name in the sand but the waves whisked it away.... I wrote your name in my heart and forever it will stay........."
MorpheusZero
07/25/05 1:34 AM GMT
I don't see why people feel the need to repost images. Regardless of the fact that some pictures aren't eyecatching or don't have good thumbnails, it is still immoral to repost images without major adjustments (to the image). Quite frankly, I think most of the time people are just impatient (some one out there will view your image eventually, don't worry). Also, people need to realize that not every image you post is going to be popular and get a high c-index. Everybody has different tastes, and I think its hard for some people to accept that.
As for those individuals who have reposted, I don't think that they thought they were doing anything wrong (I mean, why else would they say it in the description?).
0∈ [?]
=xentrik
07/25/05 2:21 AM GMT
I think it has more to do with Mods not recognizing reposts for what they are than not being consistent. There are nearly 5000 images in the new images gallery at present. That's a lot of thumbnails to memorize.
0∈ [?]
::June
07/25/05 2:49 AM GMT
I agree, then perhaps added onto the upload page not to post an image that has been previously posted!
0∈ [?]
"A picture is worth a thousand words"
+Piner
07/25/05 3:22 AM GMT
If you notice a reposting of an image, let one of us Mods know. Usually if someone feels that they need to repost an image because it didn't get many votes/views the first time, then the image most likely wasn't that memorable to start with. I know not one of us can remember every single image that has been posted here over the years.
0∈ [?]
The work of art may have a moral effect, but to demand moral purpose from an artist is to make him ruin his work. (Johann Wolfgang von Goethe - 1832)
J_272004
07/25/05 3:37 AM GMT
I dont think you got the point im trying to make Morpheus... im trying to point out that its ok for some to do it and not others.. and the image im refering to had a high index... it was taken off the first time a little while ago by the author because he was going off line for awhile and didnt know whether he was coming back on.. and im saying that you cant let some and not all do it...

Xentrik.. I understand how many images go through here for the mods and i can understand how hard it would be to pick up.. however.. when someone clearly states that it has been reposted... or that they are going to repost.. that seems pretty clear to me that they intend or intended to do it... I dont know if the mods get to see the description before they approve it or not.. if not maybe that would be an idea ... I know for a fact that a very popular one has been reposted at least 3 times.. and how do i know that... because i downloaded it to my desktop and i already had it... The point i wanted to put across was that other members have and are doing it and nothing is said...

Im just trying to see why its good for some and not others... and some of the ones who have reposted are well known as well as their work... even one member has stated that they are going to repost all their images because they were deleted... I wont name names... but something has to be done.. maybe if the author was the one who voluntarily deleted the image, and it had a good index, etc they can be allowed to repost it.. however.. if it was deleted by cleaning or mods.. end of story .....
0∈ [?]
"I wrote your name on a piece of paper but by accident I threw it away... I wrote your name on my hand but it washed away... I wrote your name in the sand but the waves whisked it away.... I wrote your name in my heart and forever it will stay........."
+Samatar
07/25/05 4:47 AM GMT
I am of the opinion that reposting shouldn't be allowed. If the image has had its run in new images and didn't make it to the permenant galleries, or was removed during "spring cleaning", then it has had fair evaluation and time on the site and the member shouldn't be taking up space in the "New images" that should be there for truly new images. If the member deleted it themselves, then they have made that choice voluntarily and the same applies. The only circumstance I can think of where reposting should be allowed is if the member accidently deleted the image, in which case they need to PM a mod to explain the circumstances and arrange something (as opposed to just reposting without bothering to do this). Personally I thought most regular members were aware of the repost policy, and I actually thought that it might already be in the CC. Since it isn't I have suggested that it be added, so that there is no more uncertainty on the subject. I also agree 100% with Piner that anyone who notices reposts should inform a mod so that we can remove the offending image.
0∈ [?]
-Everyone is entitled to my opinion- Visit the new improved rescope.com.au
J_272004
07/25/05 5:34 AM GMT
Well Sam im definately sure that these reposts have NOT been accidently deleted by ALL of these members... I know that nearly all of them have had no rework whatsoever on them...
0∈ [?]
"I wrote your name on a piece of paper but by accident I threw it away... I wrote your name on my hand but it washed away... I wrote your name in the sand but the waves whisked it away.... I wrote your name in my heart and forever it will stay........."
tommy62
07/25/05 1:55 PM GMT
Thanks for your support J! I wasnt awared that reposting wasn't allowed on Caedes and i based that from the fact that i have done it with images before...not because of low index but because i have removed my images when i left Caedes for a while because i didnt want to have people commenting my images when i was off the Internet, for me its pretty important to have a chance to say thanks or whatever to the ones who comment my images So was the case even this time. My intention was only to repost one single image because its my favourite and it has a special meaning for me.But even if i think it shouldnt be such a problem i respect the rules and im sorry that i didnt read the rules properly about repostings..
That is my responsibility and i dont blame anyone for the mistakes i made myself.
Take Care!
0∈ [?]
" Today Is That Tomorrow We Worried About Yesterday"
J_272004
07/25/05 2:05 PM GMT
Your welcome.. and you wouldnt have known because there isnt anywhere where its written... what im saying is that there is quite a few others who are always doing this and nothing is said about it... so why remove yours and keep all theirs on here... so dont blame yourself for it... its not a mistake because others are doing it too....
0∈ [?]
"I wrote your name on a piece of paper but by accident I threw it away... I wrote your name on my hand but it washed away... I wrote your name in the sand but the waves whisked it away.... I wrote your name in my heart and forever it will stay........."
mesmerized
07/25/05 4:17 PM GMT
If you even just put a small frame around it or something and post as re-work it would probably be allowed to stay...just a thought, as it means something important to him.:Pat.
0∈ [?]
Join me and Let's Talk.
tommy62
07/25/05 5:46 PM GMT
I did that but off it goes...To Morpheus: Moral is defined as: "A persons ability and willingness to follow stated Rules in a society or group"
I dont think its inmoral to repost a picture if there is no rules that forbidden it.

We cant expect people to have moral if they dont know what it means to be moral,if we dont have rules in the society or in a group that tells people what is ok or not ok its a little hard then in all situations to know if u do something wrong or not. It's much easier to follow rules if they are clearly written with hopefully an explanation added to it that describes why that rule was made.

So the solution for this is of course to make it clear for people what Rules they are supposed to follow when they join Caedes, If people then brake it just show them the rules and end of discussion.
I dont blame anyone i just think its better with clear Rules and in case a problem shows up that Caedes wasn't prepared for, find out a Rule that eliminates Missunderstandings and a lot of confused discussions, and make sure it will be added to the existing " Code Of Conduct
When people knows what they join and are informed in a clear way whats expected of them, things will work smoother and less "off policy" actions will be the result...
0∈ [?]
" Today Is That Tomorrow We Worried About Yesterday"
J_272004
07/25/05 9:38 PM GMT
Well said =D
0∈ [?]
"I wrote your name on a piece of paper but by accident I threw it away... I wrote your name on my hand but it washed away... I wrote your name in the sand but the waves whisked it away.... I wrote your name in my heart and forever it will stay........."
+tbob
07/25/05 10:40 PM GMT
Tommy62 here is an alternative soultion to your problem,maybe you could start a webpage at a free site and then put a link to it on all the descriptions of the pictures you post and on your profile page.
0∈ [?]
::WENPEDER
07/25/05 10:42 PM GMT
Well, not to offend, but I think it's overkill to call someone "immoral" for reposting an image here. Perhaps it's frowned upon and discouraged by administrators, but I don't think it's necessary to put a "moral" judgement on someone because they wanted to repost an image, particularly when they didn't realize there were any rules discouraging it. I just reposted an image that I did quite a bit of work on that was yanked after less than two weeks. Piner said that "snapshots" were pulled within a week or two, but this wasn't a "snapshot." Anyway, I worked to make a nice frame for it and the frame clearly adds to the image. So, I hope I didn't do anything "wrong" or "immoral" by uploading it. Frankly, it wasn't up long enough the first time for that many people to even see it. I don't anticipate that it will be on Caedes permanently, but, unless an image is profane or of obvious bad quality, I think new images should be left up for a few weeks - - my opinion....for what it's worth.
Wen
0∈ [?]
tommy62
07/25/05 11:30 PM GMT
Thanks tbob but this is not a problem for me..It seems to be a little to much work for reposting one image so i leave it there..I think this is more a problem for Caedes when a discussion about unclearified rules comes up in the air...
My post was only a suggestion that Caedes should add this rule to their code of conduct about reposting images, to avoid missunderstandings etc...
But thanks anyhow for your suggestion ( I might do that one day)
0∈ [?]
" Today Is That Tomorrow We Worried About Yesterday"
J_272004
07/25/05 11:35 PM GMT
Bob.. why should he have to do that.. when others are reposting... so what you seem to be saying is... its ok for some and not for others to repost.. if thats the case that SUCKS.. and I find that totally unacceptable....

Wendy.. good luck with the image you framed to repost... because Tommy did that and it got pulled off..

I noticed today that there is an image on here that was posted yesterday.. and is reposted today with a frame... Id like an explanation as to why its there.. and you cant tell me this time that its too long ago to remember if its been posted or not...
0∈ [?]
"I wrote your name on a piece of paper but by accident I threw it away... I wrote your name on my hand but it washed away... I wrote your name in the sand but the waves whisked it away.... I wrote your name in my heart and forever it will stay........."
tommy62
07/25/05 11:46 PM GMT
Reasonable question Jacqueline!
0∈ [?]
" Today Is That Tomorrow We Worried About Yesterday"
MorpheusZero
07/26/05 12:08 AM GMT
I didn't mean to offend anyone in my comment, and I guess what I was really trying to say was that it wouldn't be right for anyone to repost if they knew or felt that its not the right thing to do. Please realize that I said that many of those who have reposted probably didn't think think they were doing anything wrong. But for those who do not think it is wrong or nuisance to repost, please do not do it again.
And to tommy62, no need to worry about people commenting on your images while you are away, people can comment and vote on your image once it is uploaded, regardless of you being online or not. Luckily, if some one comments on image while you are away, you are still able to reply later on. When uploading an image, check the box that says "suscribe me to the discussion about this image".
0∈ [?]
J_272004
07/26/05 12:23 AM GMT
Morpheus.. the reason why he took them off was because he was going off line for awhile and didnt know when he would be back or even if he came back... and didnt want people leaving comments and he not being able to respond to their comments....

People didnt realize that you couldnt repost because nothing has been said about it until now... the point of this is... that people have been doing it.. and are still doing it.. but its ok for some and not for others... we even put a frame around the image in question and reposted it.. (Like many many others who have done that and even today. ...) but it was still removed... THATS WHAT IM ANGRY ABOUT that everyone is doing it and the images are approved and kept there in new images... and like I said in my last post.. there are images today that has been reposted with framing and nothings done... so the response about there are too many and too long ago to remember is a load of bull... I know there are a lot of images on the new gallery... but open your eyes there are some there very recently...

0∈ [?]
Dont mess with a woman who has had 3 hours sleep in 48 hours....
tommy62
07/26/05 12:25 AM GMT
Yes im awared about everything that you say Morpheus...its just that i have been taking long breaks from Caedes and even thought about leaving the whole internet for different reasons...And i prefer to answer at least a couple of days after instead of 3 month..But sure its right what u say that i still can see the comments but its to long delay to reply someones comments after 3 month ( In my opinion )
But if i keep straight to my point...Simple solution: Add the rule that it is forbidden to repost images in the "Code Of Conduct". Simple and crystal clear!
0∈ [?]
" Today Is That Tomorrow We Worried About Yesterday"
MorpheusZero
07/26/05 12:29 AM GMT
Ooh, I understand. Sorry for the misunderstanding.
0∈ [?]
::verenabloo
07/26/05 2:12 AM GMT
I agree with WEN...............
0∈ [?]
"The reward of a thing well done is to have done it" Ralph Waldo Emerson
::WENPEDER
07/26/05 4:05 AM GMT
That's 'cause you're a very smart lady, Verena. <G>
Wen
0∈ [?]
::regmar
07/26/05 7:46 PM GMT
We should all remember that caedes is a free service. I feel that it's more appropriate that our comments should begin with gratitude instead of indignation. Now I don't know about Tommy or his situation, but it seems to me (being a subscriber the the "honey vs vinegar" rule) that your demand might have met with more sucess if it had been handled in a PM to Caedes or one of his ilk instead of airing it in a public forum where Caedes is forced into a position of defending the rules instead of possibly bending them. I don't necessarily have an issue with your grievance, Wen only with your method.
0∈ [?]
ж Regmar ж
+Piner
07/26/05 9:05 PM GMT
We have never viewed reposting as "immoral" and no one has ever been punished for reposting.

I am sure it has been suggested to caedes before now, but he has other "irons in the fire" with finishing up his schooling and sometimes minor things fall through the cracks.

As of 8:30 this morning "caedes standard time" the Code of Conduct has had this admenment added:

"Once an image has been uploaded to the site it should not be uploaded again unless substantial changes have been made to it. These changes should be enough so that it could be reasonable assumed that the resulting changed image would receive a better critique than the previous version."
0∈ [?]
The work of art may have a moral effect, but to demand moral purpose from an artist is to make him ruin his work. (Johann Wolfgang von Goethe - 1832)
tommy62
07/26/05 9:11 PM GMT
I think as i said before that a place like Caedes is a two way institution...Caedes need people who work with art and then choose to post them here, Artists need Caedes or some other place to show their work. And therefore i think the artists also have a right to discuss all kind of issues as well as the mods have.
Thats for me the free Communication and i guess its therefore we have this discussion board?
For me i felt it was the lack of a certain rule that maybe make some of the artists here confused and maybe also a little wondering why their pictures were removed and others not.I didnt force anyone i just recommend a solution about a problem for Caedes, to avoid further missunderstandings about reposting images.
I think Caedes have listening and add more clear rules about this issue and therefore hopefully avoid more confused reactions in the future, and i think THAT is the good thing that comes out of this discussion.
0∈ [?]
" Today Is That Tomorrow We Worried About Yesterday"
::Torque
07/26/05 10:04 PM GMT
So THAT'S what happened to my image (Desperado). :) I reposted that a few months ago not knowing at the time that it was discouraged. I reposted it because it was a favorite of so many people the first time and had a c-index in the 70s or so. The second time around it had a rating closer to what I would have expected, something in the 80s, so I was surprised to see it disappear today... Until I found this discussion. I fully understand the policy and I'm glad it has been officially posted now. I'm sure the mods will catch up with the existing reposts sooner or later and everyone will be held to the same standard.

I usually post images on my own website on the rare occassion that I actually still like them after they've been voted down on Caedes. I only reposted that particular image because I really felt the first time 'round was just a fluke based on the scale of comments received. Turns out I was probably right since the rating was much higher this time but I still understand it being deleted now so that everyone is on par.

On the subject of high ratings though, it seems like images have just about stopped moving to the permanent gallery all-together. They're not getting deleted either (although I have seen a couple of my mid-70s images eventually disappear) I can't argue though, I'm glad to see the standards are going up, but have the standards gone so high that even mid-80s images will generally not make it, or has the process just been put on hold? Just curious...
0∈ [?]
~My select image - Wading Patiently
J_272004
07/26/05 10:32 PM GMT
0∈ [?]
Dont mess with a woman who has had 3 hours sleep in 48 hours....
J_272004
07/26/05 10:39 PM GMT
Reg... That is why its called a public forum.. so people can put on here what they think... I actually DID PM mods a few times and didnt get a satisfactory answer.. I was basically told bad luck you got caught.. so thats why I posted here... and Im glad I did.. it has brought it to the surface and has made people aware that there were many people doing it and some were being let through and others were removed... even some members were saying in description that they were going to repost all of their images... Im happy with the results that Caedes has added it to the Code Of Conduct.. now everyone will be equal... and I dont think that was too hard or time consuming to add to the rules...
You said:" where Caedes is forced into a position of defending the rules instead of possibly bending them." ,,,,,,,,,,,,
I didnt force Caedes into a position of defending the rules, just made him aware that it wasnt stated anywhere for people to know about it... and that it was good for some and not for others to do it... as for bending the rules?? why should there be a reason to bend the rules.. whats the point of having rules if its not being adhered to? Yes this is a free site.. and Caedes and his mods do a fantastic job... but there has to be rules and these are to reinforced to ALL not just to some... And from the amount of messages and emails.. I did the right thing...

Im more than happy with the results.. and thank Caedes and his Mods for agreeing to add this rule to the Code Of Conduct...

So I will now put my part of the discussion to rest... THANKYOU
0∈ [?]
Dont mess with a woman who has had 3 hours sleep in 48 hours....
::regmar
07/27/05 7:30 AM GMT
I think you missed my point. The enforcement of the rules is entirely up to Caedes and the mods. They can enforce or not enforce the rules at will. I operate several free websites, and I understand the position of someone offering a service for free to others. Every moment we get to use this site is a gift to each of us. We do not have the right to demand anything of Caedes. We can request it, yes, but you are demanding it. That is the reason for them to bend or not bend the rules. It is entirely up to them, the ones offering you this gift. It isn't up to you to find it "unacceptable" or not. It's their site that you are using for free.
0∈ [?]
ж Regmar ж
J_272004
07/27/05 8:00 AM GMT
Yes it is run by caedes and he does a fantastic job with it... but for a community this big there has to be rules... and it has to be fair... so what you are saying is... yes some can have rules bent for them and not for others.. to me thats not fair for all members... we are artists of all kinds and all should have the opportunity to repost or not repost not just the select few... and if you feel that this is fine (maybe your one of the lucky ones if you are good for you...)thats ok its your opinion... but MY opinion is... rules have to made clear and fair... and for a start if you bothered to look I DIDNT DEMAND ANYTHING... i was pointing out the fact that some are allowed to do it and others arent.. so get the facts right before you jump down my throat... I didnt even bring up about rules etc.. all I asked was WHY... so you obviously missed MY point .... which I repeated many times in this discussion that all I wanted was to know why.... I didnt hold a gun at Caedes or the mods head and say MAKE A RULE OR ELSE.. if you know me (which you dont) I dont get involved and I dont bring things up for discussion because of people who are narrow minded... if you say anything which doesnt suit certain people your the worst person in the world... my suggestion read what is written properly before you criticise me... as for using this site for free.. that is up to me and me alone whether to or not you dont know my situation and its non of your business anyway... as for free.. let me see.. I pay the internet, electricity, batteries for camera, hours of my time.. yep its free..

0∈ [?]
Dont mess with a woman who has had 3 hours sleep in 48 hours....
*caedes
07/27/05 8:56 AM GMT
Since when do rules have to be fair? That's no fun at all.

BTW: I'm getting tired of listening to the vitriol and drama being produced by various curmudgeons as of late. We are here to enjoy ourselves and to learn, and if you are not doing one of those two things then you should take a time-out from the website for a while.
0∈ [?]
-caedes
J_272004
07/27/05 10:11 AM GMT
Fine.. guess i'll keep my opinions to myself.... ive learnt now.. keep questions to myself.. heaven forbid anyone who wants to question anything... and yes im angry all i asked was a simple question..... never mind wont happen again..
0∈ [?]
Dont mess with a woman who has had 3 hours sleep in 48 hours....
tommy62
07/27/05 12:42 AM GMT
To Regmar: I think as i said before that this site has a meaning and activity because there are artists that post pictures here and Caedes who runs it..Without it it wouldnt exist any photo site. Caedes needs people who post images here, meaning they are Depended on our work, Artists can use it and contribute to this site with their work. Thats what build up a site like this.I think its disrespectful to use the Power of running a site to point out to people that if you dont like it here take a hike, instead of showing some respect and listen to WHY people react.

To Caedes: Why rules have to be fair? Because it WORKS better that way. it wont give bad feedback, its respectful, and dont forget, this site is depended on Peoples work..If all people here would feel dissapointed and wrong threated you can be sure it will be reactions.
Basic in this "Drama" that you call it was that you havent been consequent about how to handle repostings, it wasn't clearly stated what was allowed or not.That make some people confused when it suddenly wasn't ok to do someting that was ok before. Fully understandable in my opinion. So sure you dont have to be fair, you can run this place like u want, For me its just a strange way to threat people you are depended of. If no one post their images here this site would only be a name.
The secret of good leadership is to care about what people think!
How do YOU react when people threat you unfair? Makes you happy? I Doubt it
Anyhow, to your defense: You have added a more clear rule about repostings and hopefully that will make things a little clearer for people who post their images here..Thanks!
0∈ [?]
" Today Is That Tomorrow We Worried About Yesterday"
::regmar
07/27/05 1:25 PM GMT
OK, I'm one of the curmudgeons. Jaqueline, I like you, and I like your work. I disagree with you about this, but I'm not going to let it stop me from being your friend.

Tommy, I sympathize with one who feels that he has been wronged, but I can't shake the feeling I defined earlier. We are here at Caedes' sufferance.

Caedes, I'll shut up, now. I probably should have done so before I started the latest round of this thread.

0∈ [?]
ж Regmar ж
tommy62
07/27/05 8:04 PM GMT
To Regmar: This has never been a big issue for my own sake, i didnt even start this discussion.
But to point out the need of clear rules is for me a way to contribute so this site will become even better...
I respect your opinion and i understand the viewpoint u have, i have another though, because i can't neglect the fact that a site like this is depended of two sides. Therefore i think its respectful to show the artist an interest and respect as well as the Artist should respect the ones who runs this place..Thats the way i prefer human beeings to act against each other..Take Care!
0∈ [?]
" Today Is That Tomorrow We Worried About Yesterday"
+tbob
07/27/05 8:57 PM GMT
The rule is in place all's well that ends well.
0∈ [?]
tommy62
07/28/05 12:01 AM GMT
Amen....
0∈ [?]
" Today Is That Tomorrow We Worried About Yesterday"
J_272004
07/28/05 12:06 AM GMT
DITTO
0∈ [?]
Dont mess with a woman who has had 3 hours sleep in 48 hours....
Radjehuty
07/28/05 12:23 AM GMT
hmm...

I couldn't imagine how tedius it would be to try and track down ALL reposts...I admit to not reading all the descriptions of every image I view/download. I think that if you want this rule to be enforced, you shouldn't rely on the mods to catch them all...you should just report it. I never really thought of it as cheating, because...well....this isn't a game, and we aren't really competing (atleast I'm not). I didn't read all the posts in this string, but I don't think that you should assume that the mods have "favorites" and purposely leave some peoples reposts alone. Meh, just my 2 cents
0∈ [?]
"The person who says it cannot be done, should not interrupt the person doing it." -Chinese Proverb
J_272004
07/28/05 12:33 AM GMT
Well dave maybe you should read from the top.. because this has all come about from a simple question if you had read it you would see all i wanted was an answer to my question.. i didnt ask for a rule, i didnt ask for images to be taken off, i didnt say it was cheating or anything as such and i didnt say there were favorites and i didnt say that the mods should track them down.... it was a simple question which all it needed was a simple answer.. so i suggest read what is written before you "assume" anything... The discussion is finished for me and i will never ask another question on this site.... now i know what Klass went through...
0∈ [?]
Dont mess with a woman who has had 3 hours sleep in 48 hours....
Radjehuty
07/28/05 12:39 AM GMT
well this discussion is too long for me to read :)

I was just responding to the original post, and responded based on the tone that I felt I got from it so sorry for apparently frustrating you.
0∈ [?]
"The person who says it cannot be done, should not interrupt the person doing it." -Chinese Proverb
J_272004
07/28/05 12:42 AM GMT
whatever.. im finished with it...
0∈ [?]
Dont mess with a woman who has had 3 hours sleep in 48 hours....
Radjehuty
07/28/05 12:56 AM GMT
wow, I just read the whole thing, hmmm...I didn't realize you were that pissed off about this. If I knew that I wouldn't have even posted at all. Maybe we could have an educated debate when the emotions are eliminated...It's no fun to have a debate with a blindfold on :) ( I just took a Logic course...sorry :) )
0∈ [?]
"The person who says it cannot be done, should not interrupt the person doing it." -Chinese Proverb
J_272004
07/28/05 1:06 AM GMT
I GIVE UP!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! ALL I DAMN WELL WANTED WAS AN ANSWER TO A DAMN SIMPLE QUESTION... AND THATS WHAT IM PISSED OFF ABOUT RIGHT NOW...THE FACT THAT IT WAS A QUESTION NOT A DEBATE.. NOT AN ATTACK ON CAEDES OR MODS OR THIS SITE OR TO GET RULES MADE AND MAKE DEMANDS ETC..... I JUST WANTED A SIMPLE ANSWER BUT NOOOOOOOOOOOO IT HAS TO BE TAKEN OUT OF CONTEXT THROWN TO THE LIONS, RIPPED APART.. MAYBE ITS BECAUSE IT WAS TOO SIMPLE TO ANSWER.. THAT THINGS HAD TO BE MORE DRAMATIC IN EVERYONES BORING LIVES ON HERE.... FOR GOD SAKES IT WAS A FRIGGIN QUESTION.......

THE DISCUSSION FOR ME IS OVER.. MOVE ON..
0∈ [?]
Dont mess with a woman who has had 3 hours sleep in 48 hours....
::WENPEDER
07/28/05 1:29 AM GMT
Boy, Dave, you appear to be the type that enjoys throwing gas on a fire. This is the second discussion you barged into in the last hour or two, ADMITTING that you didn't have a foundation on which to comment one way or another. I hope you flunked your Logic course because you've just demonstrated that you learned little or nothing from it. Perhaps a Psychology course or two...naw, nevermind....you'd most likely misuse that too.

Don't sweat it, Jacqueline. Your question was as clear as day to anyone who wanted to get it. You're right, this discussion has been turned upsidedown and inside out and it's probably best to let the firestarters compete to see who can keep it going longest...Wen
0∈ [?]
J_272004
07/28/05 1:31 AM GMT
Thanks Wendy
0∈ [?]
Dont mess with a woman who has had 3 hours sleep in 48 hours....
DixieNormus
07/28/05 4:00 AM GMT
One big dysfunctional family! Sorry....carry on!
0∈ [?]
J_272004
07/28/05 4:12 AM GMT
Thank god i dont have to live with them... LOL
0∈ [?]
Dont mess with a woman who has had 3 hours sleep in 48 hours....
DixieNormus
07/28/05 4:14 AM GMT
LMAO! Fo' sho! It's like a soap opera on here sometimes......very entertaining stuff. =0)
0∈ [?]
J_272004
07/28/05 4:16 AM GMT
These are the Days Of Caedes....
0∈ [?]
Dont mess with a woman who has had 3 hours sleep in 48 hours....
scionlord
07/28/05 11:00 AM GMT
*wonders if it is safe to take the battle armour off yet*
0∈ [?]
'Study the past, if you would divine the future.' - Confucius ................. Please vote on these: The Cage 2, Strange Dreams 2, Orb 3, Glowball Stylised
J_272004
07/28/05 11:12 AM GMT
Your safe....... from me anyway.. dont know about the others.... LOL
0∈ [?]
Dont mess with a woman who has had 3 hours sleep in 48 hours....
::Morwyn
07/28/05 2:14 PM GMT
Thank you Wendy..
0∈ [?]
One bead at a time..
::WENPEDER
07/28/05 3:52 PM GMT
<G>
0∈ [?]
Radjehuty
07/30/05 9:35 PM GMT
Wow Wendy, I had no idea you were this incredibly rude. Actually, I aced logic. If you knew anything about it, emotions cloud judgement, and I think you just proved this. That one post was one gigantic insult and was completely useless to this caedes community. You should ALWAYS keep emotions out of a topic that could be discussed as ADULTS. I have no idea how old you are, but from this impression of you I would say that you are either much younger than me, or much more immature than the rest of us. Normally I would just let this go and just assume that I don't deserve this and assume that the offender has problems of their own, but in an atmosphere like Caedes, this just shouldn't be tolerated. Hopefully other people agree with me.

I just can't even tell you how frustrating it is when a discussion is completely demolished by the self-absorbed close minded people that want nothing more than to be 100% correct 100% of the time. I hope you really think about what you just said, because if I didn't know any better, I would assume you were about 13 years old.

Congratulations, you just lost respect from someone on Caedes.net...I'm sure others will follow assuming you always act like this towards people with opposing arguements.
0∈ [?]
"The person who says it cannot be done, should not interrupt the person doing it." -Chinese Proverb
scionlord
07/30/05 9:56 PM GMT
*looks for steel wall to get behind...doesn't find one*
*waves hand and creates force field*
0∈ [?]
'Study the past, if you would divine the future.' - Confucius ................. Please vote on these: The Cage 2, Plasma 3, An End, The Cage 3
::Benroy
07/30/05 9:56 PM GMT
No need! I seem to remember you agreeing in another post about back and forth childish comments that have no real usefullness to the subject in hand. I have no idea what <G> means (someone please tell me ) it can't be that offensive.
The only way i see that this discussion is going to end is by Fisti-cuffs behind the bike sheds in say half an hour...............
The ironic thing about this comment is that it has no real meaning to the DB, boy! now i'm confused! I'm such a hypocrit!

These discussion are starting to read like national newspapers, all doom and gloom!
I, for one, am going to start a discussion which surely no one can take offense to, but everyone can join in and maybe learn something.

Cheers.........





0∈ [?]
Radjehuty
07/30/05 10:57 PM GMT
well I guess this community is almost incapable of having controvertial discussions..oh well :/

only reason I fired back is because I was publicly insulted when it could easily have been PM'd
0∈ [?]
"The person who says it cannot be done, should not interrupt the person doing it." -Chinese Proverb
tommy62
07/30/05 11:19 PM GMT
Well Well...When are we going to learn that making someone wrong will make them even more sure that their opinion is the only right thing on here..
Use some more sofisticated techniques Homo Sapiens and u will see another scenario..
0∈ [?]
" Today Is That Tomorrow We Worried About Yesterday"
::WENPEDER
07/30/05 11:33 PM GMT
<G> is internet shorthand for a grin or smile, Ben. Ann thanked me and I simply gave her a smile. That's all there is to it. CHEERS! <G>
Wen
0∈ [?]
*caedes
07/30/05 11:34 PM GMT
Sounds like a chapter out of "How to win friends and influence people."
0∈ [?]
-caedes
co2metal
07/30/05 11:37 PM GMT
whether or not dave meant anything to be offensive, i do agree that this should have been discussed via PM instead of publicly insulting him.
0∈ [?]
click here for pure excellence
XYZ
08/02/05 1:34 AM GMT
Wow, one questoins, 65 comments and no answer and just a big fight, this is funny. Reposting shouldn't be allowed at all, at least thats what I think.
0∈ [?]
DixieNormus
08/02/05 2:53 AM GMT
I wonder if Caedes could ...like....put a whole thread in the hall of shame?
0∈ [?]
J_272004
08/02/05 10:37 AM GMT
Its amazing how a "simple" question (well I thought it was) can be turned completely upside down and that most of the comments have absolutely nothing to do with it... *sighs.... makes me wonder why did i bother.... its the same with every discussion... a few comments refering to the question which was brought up.. then here we go.. same old arguments, which have nothing to do with the discussion... always... im right your wrong... blah blah blah... its getting to be really boring hearing the same arguments over and over again on all the discussions... at the moment 3 discussions have basically the same comments... all arguing about the same thing.... GEEZ...... * goes back to corner...
0∈ [?]
Dont mess with a woman who has had 3 hours sleep in 48 hours....
co2metal
08/02/05 10:40 AM GMT
it's all because we enjoy some good drama
0∈ [?]
click here for pure excellence
tommy62
08/02/05 10:45 AM GMT
This thread actually make a difference because more clear rules was added in the COC so it was no waste.
Its kind of funny because people watch the worst kind of violence on TV without raising their eyes, but a tuff discussion on Caedes seems to annoying people like hell.
What a strange planet this is!!!
0∈ [?]
" Today Is That Tomorrow We Worried About Yesterday"
J_272004
08/02/05 10:49 AM GMT
Yep very strange planet with some strange people... =P
0∈ [?]
Dont mess with a woman who has had 3 hours sleep in 48 hours....
tommy62
08/02/05 11:01 AM GMT
Well its always easier to be a spectator and criticise than to add some creative thoughts....
0∈ [?]
" Today Is That Tomorrow We Worried About Yesterday"
J_272004
08/02/05 11:02 AM GMT
very very true my friend...
0∈ [?]
Dont mess with a woman who has had 3 hours sleep in 48 hours....
::regmar
08/02/05 5:35 PM GMT
People who criticise by definition aren't spectators. They are participants. And I believe the reason we don't like seeing obnoxious, offensive behavior is because it is obnoxious and offensive. This is the same reason that I don't like "reality TV." It showcases the worst aspects of human nature - as has this thread.
0∈ [?]
ж Regmar ж
tommy62
08/02/05 7:48 PM GMT
I think u missunderstood me Regmar. If we should avoid this kind of behaviour we need constructive ideas not blaming. In that matter i have tried to point out the importance of not making other people wrong.We have to start with ourselfs and find other ways to approach.

Its easy to say --This is wrong, how bad this is, i dont like this, this has to stop..
But to add some constructive ideas about HOW we can act to stop it takes a little more,
In that meaning i think it is to be a spectator if the only thing we add is blaming and nothing more..( I dont say that you have done it) So i dont talk about criticise images ,i talk about that Dwindling spiral that appears when we blame other peoples behaviours, as more you push that someone is wrong as more counter effort you will receive. Its just to look in the reality and you will see that's the way it works.Its like the old line " It Takes Two To Tango"

I have tried to point out this several times...Show some understanding dont be so quick to blame and you will discover a more gentle and nice person in front of you.
That is a decision we have to take ourself..HOW do i want to be against other people, A blaming smartass who mostly blame things I dont agree about or a understanding human beeing who can see more viewpoints than my own in a discussion.
I dont either like " Reality TV" because its just so stupid and are constructed in a way so the most different people comes together, and why? Fights, arguing, dissagreements everything that the beer drinking man in the sofa just loves to watch. I agree with you Regmar!! IT SUCKS!!
0∈ [?]
" Today Is That Tomorrow We Worried About Yesterday"
co2metal
08/02/05 8:05 PM GMT
You have me confused about your argument.. i understood that while back in the "is it wise to criticise?" thread, you were against helping people out with your own ideas and opinions of their work, and said that they should learn how to get better by themselves:

"From that viewpoint i think If we dont find anything in a picture that we like Its better to Shut up than to add negative energy to another persons viewpoint of life....
If the person asking for criticism, Ask him why he cant find a way to improve his art himself and develop his personal touch instead of taking other peoples opinions as a law to follow.....;-) "

so which is it? leave the constructive criticism and offer the good help as you have said in this thread, or simple leave it up to the artist to learn themselves? i may be wrong in my understanding, but right now it seems like you are using the same argument that i had used in that prior thread that you were against.
0∈ [?]
click here for pure excellence
tommy62
08/02/05 8:37 PM GMT
Good Question Co2 metal! Im glad you asked!
As you can see i have mostly in this thread talked about how to avoid conflicts between people and the need of a clear rule....

I do respect that some people likes to help with constructive critics ,but some of them seems to have some problems with negative response. So i just give my idea about how we might change the way we approach..

What you quote is my personal opinion about if it is wise to criticise and i still think people should develop their own style and not hang up themselves too much in what other says...What i also said in that thread was that there is a lot of information where we can learn a lot about art and that people shouldnt be too depended of critics here on Caedes as a way to improve their ability in Art. That is my opinion there and also here.

When i discuss in the DB i read what people say and give my opinion about it.Simple as that...
But when it comes to how i act about peoples images im more into the encouraging way...I mean people have improved and becamed great artists before Caedes or other sites even exists so of course people could learn even without that. But if people prefer to learn here its fine for me...

I believe more in encouraging because it simply works best for me, i get better response and less problems. But you are free to do the way that works for you, i respect that. Its just that i got the feeling that it didnt worked so well for you ? I quote your own word

Quote "but the problem is that many here don't want the constructive criticism and get offended by it, or don't appreciate any help given. i've tried on many occasions to offer help to some, but i get no response, and mediocre image keep coming. a lot of it is that some peoples' egos get in the way of acknowledging that they could take some time and listen to what help some of us could offer and therefore improve.. and this has discouraged me from freely offering the constructive criticism that i normally would. " End Of Quote
I gave you my opinion about what you could do, Did you try it?

0∈ [?]
" Today Is That Tomorrow We Worried About Yesterday"
tommy62
08/02/05 11:19 PM GMT
Just to make it clear: When i look at peoples work here i prefer to use encouraging comments
When i discuss an issue here in the DB i give my opinion about what i think can make things better, and also what i think is wrong..
In the DB we discuss ideas and opinions.When i look at peoples images its someones work that they might have spend a lot of time with. I approach this two things a little different thats all....
0∈ [?]
" Today Is That Tomorrow We Worried About Yesterday"
::Benroy
08/02/05 11:46 PM GMT
In my opinion encouragement is useless if not offered with some kind of substance behind it. Purely saying "this is great" is of no good, unless,
1) it is PURELY great, in which case the artist is extremely capable and on top of their game, and is used as an acknowledgement of this.
2) An artist has produced something that has really seen an improvement from their usual work. By saying "this is great" will get them thinking, "this time round i did this differently" thus feeding their learning curve.
I know by encouraging you don't mean just saying something as simple as "this is great", but, depending on the person your offering critism to, it can be just as useful as offering encouragement. As I see it, some people thrive off encouragement and some peolple thrive off knowing how other people think they can improve.......

Cheers............
0∈ [?]
tommy62
08/03/05 12:06 AM GMT
Sure! If we talk about people who can explain and give detailed information about why they think an image is great or not im with you...It also takes some skill to give constructive criticism which shouldnt be forgotten...A professional Artist is probably more capable to "see" an image in another way than a rookie and that will of course makes a difference when it comes to detailed information about what could be improved or what is so great about it.
And about how other people react if i just say -This is great! Well, as so far i havent get any complains, but i hope they will tell me in case they feel wrong about it. Normally i try to say something about WHY i like it based upon the ability i have to explain it.
0∈ [?]
" Today Is That Tomorrow We Worried About Yesterday"
::Benroy
08/03/05 12:32 AM GMT
By the way i'm out of retirement:)

I think the comment/ critism/ encouragment made to someone's first image is all important. From the response you might get, should tell you whether this person is interested in learning others techniques, or whether they want to go their own way.
Though I am a believer of:; You've got to know the rules before you can break them!
Also, if enough people give their honest opinion about an image then the artist can take and leave what they need. Earlier tonight I offered someone some constructive critism without knowing anything about the program they used, I just said "there will be someone on this site who can offer you the info' to make this a great image". Hopefully this will encourage them to go out and seek this information,. I was no way skilled or a professional artist in this field, but was just trying to give them a nudge in the right direction.

Cheers............
0∈ [?]
tommy62
08/03/05 12:52 AM GMT
Well you seems to be a person who dont get static about how you approach other peoples Art, and i think its a good idea to not be like that because its what comes out of it that counts, and to recommend something in the way you describe is in my opinion a better way than to just jump on peoples faces and recommend a lot of changes..
But i think you can agree about that a professional Artist can "see" more in a picture than a rookie...Its like myself in music, i can tell a lot more about what can be improved and see more about bad techniques than a rookie in the field. I guess thats why it is recommended that the teacher has a higher skill than the student when it comes to learning.
0∈ [?]
" Today Is That Tomorrow We Worried About Yesterday"
::Benroy
08/03/05 1:25 AM GMT
I think we both agree that there is a way to go about giving someone constructive critism and it differs from person to person. I certainly think the pro' artist has a lot to offer, it's just a shame when the rookie rejects it.
As you highlighted, i hope CO2 metal hasn't been put off by a few bad reactions. He can certainly give me a few pointers whenever he wants..........please:) I'm sure a lot of other caedes artists would also welcome his comments.
It should be noted that because the only way to communicate at caedes is thorugh text, a lot of things are taken out of context. If i typed how i talk then, firstly a lot of people wouldn't have a clue what i was saying and, secondly i'd have a lot of enemies. We're not renound for our tact here in the north of england:)

Cheers...........
0∈ [?]
co2metal
08/03/05 4:27 AM GMT
well, by "discouraged me from freely offering the constructive criticism", i mean that i now think twice about if i should bother to give some pointers or not.. some people may get the idea that i'm condescending if i ever suggest anything, and i'd like to avoid that because i feel no better than everyone else. on occasion, i may see an image that has gotten many ecstatic comments, while it could certainly use some improvements.. in this case i may for example point out that some part of the image may be too bright and takes your eyes away from the focal point. i had gotten many comments like that in the past and i can definately say that it improved my image-making. i would never bombard them with suggestion after suggestion, since it's their art. like Matthew (CaptainHero) said in one of the other threads, it's basically the technical issues that i like to guide people along with. in photography for example, someone may comment that they should use the rule of thirds when taking photos and to try not to have eyecatching things in the photo to take away from the main focus of the image. that is basically the type of help i try to give to digital artists, mainly because that's the kind of help that expedited my learning.
0∈ [?]
click here for pure excellence
tommy62
08/03/05 12:44 AM GMT
To Ben: Hehe yeah i see what you mean!
To Co2 metal: I hope you will still reach out to people with your advices and as Ben said you can always go to him.;-) I think also Ben had a good idea about the way he suggest people where they could find information that will improve their work.
Good Luck anyhow!
0∈ [?]
" Today Is That Tomorrow We Worried About Yesterday"
Radjehuty
08/06/05 5:16 AM GMT
There were some interesting points made in this topic. First of all, I think that only a tiny percentage of the images uploaded are actually viewpoints on actual human lives...I mean let's face it. Not even I go that deep, but I do use this new medium as ways to express certain things. If I can get some constructive criticism on how to make that expression more effective, I would not only be happy, but very thankful that a more experianced artist could help me out. I think that by getting offended by criticism, you are not only inhibiting your own growth, you are discouraging the caedes community from giving others criticism that many people (including me) want.

I have actually seen some, most likely purposefully, bad images which I just don't even comment on. But if I think that an image has potential, I would give criticism. So I think that if an image is "bad" and probably on purpose, I would just ignore it. If I think the person is really trying to improve themselves, and if I think I have anything that might help them, I wouldn't hesitate to get some pointers up there.

I also share the same thoughts as Andy (co2metal) in that maybe there are quite a few images which have gotten an incredible amount of attention and that maybe it could use alot more work from our perspective (overrated maybe?). If this happened to me, I don't think I would have gotten anywhere for the past year I've been here. Because I got so much criticism, I can be a little more creative.

I also think that people should realize more that criticism isn't insulting your "views on life"; that it is just suggestions on ways you can express that "view on life" more effectively.
0∈ [?]
"The person who says it cannot be done, should not interrupt the person doing it." -Chinese Proverb
::regmar
08/06/05 12:27 AM GMT
Yeah - I get looooooooooots of criticism - must mean I'm learning a lot :-)
0∈ [?]
ж Regmar ж
::philcUK
08/06/05 1:49 PM GMT
I’m of the opinion lately that any criticism I get, I should bank it and use at as a frame of reference for the next time I do an image in the same style. I don’t think there is any real benefit in repeatedly reposting an image with any kind of alteration no matter how 'significant' it may or may not appear to be other than to replace an image say for instance that has been posted in the wrong size in error. Adding frames, changing perspectives, tweaking saturation - its all just semantics and most likely lead's to an apathy in viewers who keep seeing the same recycled stuff.

Ultimately, the beauty of digital artwork and photography is that it's eminently disposable and if people don’t like what you've done you just bite the bullet and do something else. If you like it so much yourself what does it matter what others think of it anyways? It’s up to you whether or not you take on board and accept people’s opinions of your work, but if you do, put them to use somewhere further down the line...
0∈ [?]
"Some mornings, it's just not worth chewing through the leather straps"
tommy62
08/06/05 3:34 PM GMT
To Radjehuty: If it was my opinion about personal viewpoints you meant i have to make it clearer. Its the viewpoint that the person had when he took his image, his intention with it..
Not that it should describe his life...lol.
General:
People have different viewpoints and different taste and opinions thats for sure.
Technical advices is made from a personal viewpoint too because there is many "laws" about what would make a picture better. More obvious ones and more subtile ones..

Sometimes a person also has to learn on a gradient, you just dont throw a person in a swimming pool and tell them do like this a do like that and you will fix how to swim.
Basics is very good to know if you are a Rookie in the field..

I dont think its matter how many times i repeat my own idea about how to deal with criticism, if people dont agree they dont agree and thats why i prefer to encourage people instead. Encouraging might for some people seems useless but thats not my experience.. To encourage is for me to point out what is good and give a feedback about how the picture effects me, that is not useless to know for the photographer. I might point out things they havent think about themselves and that can give a new dimension on their work.

If we criticise people when they have good intentions and do things from the best of their abilities it might happend we offend people even if our intentions are good. That is at least the feeling i get after taken part of some peoples posts in the DB.
To avoid that and still reach out with our help i think this places offers some constructive ideas...
First post in this thread:
http://www.caedes.net/Zephir.cgi?lib=Board::Topic&id=446907
Third comment of Benroy in this thread we are now..
And of course my own here ;-)
Quoted from the thread " Is it wise to criticise"
"Maybe the people who like to give critics ALSO can improve their abilities and also learn more about Art if they also ask more about what other people wants to express and what kind of methods they use or what they are trying to achieve..it might make the critics more right indicated and a lot of missunderstandings might be avoided...
Maybe that would be one way to erase the boundaries you talked about?
Two way communication is a very good way to raise the understanding between different people, i think that would work fine between Artists as well...."
End of quote.

0∈ [?]
" Today Is That Tomorrow We Worried About Yesterday"
J_272004
08/09/05 1:12 AM GMT
ummmmmm ..... I know im going to regret asking another question about this subject... because it will be turned out of context AGAIN...

PLEASE NOTE... IM NOT DEMANDING ANYTHING FROM ANYONE....

could someone please tell me what can NOT be reposted... eg.. same image different colour.. same image with border... same image included on a collage..

please dont take this out of context...
0∈ [?]
"The best and most beautiful things in the world cannot be seen or even touched. They must be felt with the heart." --Helen Keller
+Samatar
08/09/05 4:47 AM GMT
I would say just use your own judgement. If you honestly believe that something is improved enough that it should replace the previous image, or changed enough so that it really is a different image to the first post, than I think it's fine to repost it. However if you're just changing the border or something because you think the image didn't get enough attention the first time or something like that, then it's a repost and you shouldn't be uploading it. Sound fair enough?
0∈ [?]
-Everyone is entitled to my opinion- Visit the new improved rescope.com.au
J_272004
08/09/05 5:42 AM GMT
Thanks Sam..
0∈ [?]
"The best and most beautiful things in the world cannot be seen or even touched. They must be felt with the heart." --Helen Keller

Leave a comment (registration required):

Subject: