After being on Caedes for a while, I've seen that alot of fractals seem like they don't have much thought put into them. I am not trying to insult anyone, especially those new to Apophysis, but its something I've noticed for awhile. Almost as if people just make a random batch (where the computer randomly generates fractals), and just upload them.
Now as a test, I have posted only randomly generated fractals while on Caedes, meaning Apophysis did all the work; these fractals have just been the products of random numbers. To my suprise, two of the seven or eight got into the permanent galleries!
Just wondering what you guys thought about this.

You are quite correct that many of the fractals here are minimaly fooled-around-with. I know that there is a period when someone first stars using a fractal program when everything is new and great. It takes time to develop a sensitive "palette" for mathematically generated artwork (as the fractal connaisseur my put it).

Apophysis is only slightly different than most fractal programs in that it tends to pick nice color combinations and patterns automatically. It seems that the program was made specifically to generate nice wallpapers, and I'm not surprised that some people liked your images for that purpose. In the end it doesn't matter to me how an image came about as long as I like it, and I'm guessing that many people feel the same way.

Yes, Apophysis is truly an amazing program, but is has so much potential, and its a shame people don't look deeper into the program. You are right about how it doesn't really matter how an image is made, and usually the outcome of a lot of these images are good if you've never seen anything like it. But when you see the same kinds of images over and over again, it gets repetitive and boring.

I've never understood the argument put forth here in the past that you have to augment something to make it suitable for posting ... that should be a growth decision of your own, not something decided by another

Sometimes the images I've made in Apophysis looked much better b4 the editing. I've never uploaded any b/c fractals just aren't a thing that I do but sometimes what is made is made and no one should care how it was made, if u like it, u like it and if you don't, u don't. There really shouldn't be any questioning the way any fractal is made.

I don't mind how people make their images, so long as they aren't tested on animals and they don't steal other peoples work.

Sometimes you can overwork an image, so time spent on it is not necessarily the sole indicator of worth. Having said that, in general terms, there is a definite correlation between effort spent on a piece and the quality of the piece (purely a subjective judgement of course).

Because there are newer users as well as experienced users, I think it is inevitable that some pieces that are submitted will be poor, whilst someone develops their skills. Of course if the site is functioning correctly then those pieces won't make it to the permanent galleries.

It is all subjective, but the question I suppose is 'what is the purpose of the site?'

I would be interested to know which fractals you mean. On programs other than apophysis- it is much easier to tell how much effort you put into them. For apophysis- in the end- you can not know- it may be that certain users just have consistantly different tastes than you- or it could be that they are developing their own sense of art. In the end- it is impossible to know the time invested- and therefore I'm afraid that I see this discussion as a rather pointless and directionless topic. If you like art that people produce- vote well on it or comment on it. If you find somethings that looks sloppy- comment. I'm sorry you took all the time for your tests- hope you had fun.

Some people are never satisfied with anything.. Usually these people have a very narrow opinion of what is good art..They also attempt to force their opinion on everyone else... What the artist creates, is art.. Whether someone else likes it or not, is really unimportant.. How much time is spent on it, is unimportant.. The tools used to create it, are unimportant.. It is the satisfaction of the artist with their own creation, that is what's important..

You know, Ann, I think we will one day see that quote in a book ... my book, hopefully

I'm gonna make you a star

One more thing: I am really MorpheusZero, and posting the images under a different name. Sorry if that was unethical or whatever, just seeing what would happen.
And don't worry, I didn't do any voting under this name.

Well, it is against the CoC to use more than one username, so you should stop using this one.

Feel free, my friend, to quote me.. I will stand behind those words.. I do not understand why people constantly argue over what art is or isn't.. It all seems rather silly.. Besides people have promised to make me famous before.. Never worked.. So give it your all..

This sounds like the whole "Snapshot Fractals" debate again. Well said, Ann. Truth is, many of the images I've spent many hours on aren't fairing any better here than those that some may have probably spent less than an hour developing. I'm starting to wonder why I bother, but, the answer is simple. I get great satisfaction out of working an image even if people who look at it here don't appreciate my effort. You're right...it isn't about how much relative time is spent or what tools were used or, ultimately, whether others like it. Art is a form of self-expression and what's important is if what I create is satisfactory to me. If others like it too, that's wonderful, but that is not what determines its merit. Wen

Don't mind how the images were created? :(

Well whoever you are, I've done similar experiments...if I were you, I would just not bother, it only gets more depressing. I've come to realize that the atmosphere here on caedes is sadly more shallow than I originally percieved it to be. This isn't truely an "art" site in my oppinion...they just go for the looks apparently.

?? uh- who? and about what? I can see no good purpose for running 'experiments' like this- just people who think that others aren't working as hard as they are. What does art have to do with the process of creation? I mean- its good to do it for self-expression- as a process- but the only thing that is going to mean something to someone else is the finished product. I think this site is all about art- why the heck else would I want someone to critique my work?? Why would I care if I thought they took no time to make something that speaks to me? The thing that is unique about this site is that there are artists in process. So perceiving that as 'shallow' is rather reversed- it is because there are lots of people learning here that the site has depth. I'm not sure I understand the atmosphere statement either- its certainly better than I've seen on other wallpaper sites- by ALOT. So it comes down to this- if you like an image- or like an artist- good. There will also be some you don't like. Fine. Why do you care how they make their art? Talent can be recognized regardless of medium and tools.

No you misunderstand me. Honestly, I don't care if other people care or not. What I meant by "shallow" --used loosly-- was that in order for images to become permanent, they just had to "look good" as was mentioned, and not necessarily for the artistic merit or intent.

Of course this goes into the definition of art, which is a debate of its own, but this is just my perspective. My view on this, is that if you are really big on getting rewarded based on the hard work you actually put in to its creation, and think other people doing almost no work while getting high scores is a problem for you, don't expect to be happy here.

I don't say that the atmosphere here is shallow as a global definition. This is only my oppinion.

ahh

What's so funny to me about this whole topic is that it reminds me of raging discussions in traditional art courses I took while at the university. The whole debate on what is art and what is not seems to have a very broad variance of opinion, whether we're talking computer art or traditional art forms. As far as I'm aware, nobody has a satisfactory answer. People create what brings them joy or fulfillment - others with similar tastes find joy or fulfillment in the creation.