Word on the wires at the moment suggest Canon are preparing to launch the 20D replacement at the end of February with in store dates no more than a few weeks later. This would put it right at the end of the usual Canon product lifespan window. The current model is such an accomplished all rounder it's easy to forget it's been out a while now. Will be interesting to see what it will be specced at - even by the usual forum rumour mills everyone is being especially tight lipped about this. Will be difficult to see how they will place it as they would have at least have to match the Nikon D200 but that would subsequently blur the lines a little with their own 5D model. I guess time will tell.
So there going to throw and nother curve to the market. I will be watching the dig news for the next release to come. This should be interesting. I heard that nikon maybe coming up with full frame pro model also. Lets see if they follow canon in siut along the lines of the 5d.
I imagine the next 1 Series cam will be a one size fits all Uber Camera which will obviously be at the top end of their pricing range and would again serve to put some distinct distance between the model lines. Its a only a small rationalising of the range after all from two cameras to one, besides all those photo journos and studio hacks can afford it!*
I fall outside of the Probably lot :-) - at this rate I will wait and see what the spring model range looks like - my current 20D's will do fine for now :-)
Or you could stick with the 20D for three years and wait for a significant change instead of buying intermediate models. Hell, in that time you will have saved enough to buy that 600mm f/4 lens;-)
to be honest, I dont think the Mamiya would ever be a consideration for Canon or Nikon as even if you shop around the body is still at least twice the price of the 1DS Mark 2 and as such not a direct rival.
there seams to be more rumours flying around about the 1DS Mk3 than there is for the 20D replacement with the common threads proposing a 22MP sensor and (finally) Canon's Active Sensor Cleaning system which would hopefully find its way into other lesser models as well. Darryl may have a point about the interim launch as the recent press review by Canon showcased their next major product launches which were for between 2007-2010.
I never suggested that the Mamiya is a direct competitor to Canon Phil. They have always targeted a different market. But I think by just being there they must influence Canon to some extent, they help to define the playing field.
I was really tempted by the 5D but unless my camera has a terrible accident I don’t see me changing it for a few years regardless of whatever temptations Canon offer us:-) besides I haven’t finished learning all the intricacies of the current one yet.
Well more and more 'details' seam to be surfacing. It now seams very likely that the new model will be launched at the PMA show in Febuary and, if the leaked user manuals and promo shots are to be taken as realistic will be called the EOS35D to avoid confusion with an earlier 30D model. it also appears to involve a slight price hike closer to the Nikon D200 which is the camera it seams to be specced against.
It's also looking likely that the budget 6MP EOS 3000 (REBEL/KISS Lite) will be launched at the same time slotting in under the the 350/Rebel XT. Theoretically, in the product lifespan time line, a 1DS MKIII could be previewed although that seams unlikely and will probably show up in Cologne at the October show instead.
The talk 50 years ago was that the world would never need more than one computer . . . even my reasoning several years ago: "I will never have enough stuff to fill up a 1 GB hard drive" Blast human progress! They should develop a camera that can take any size image that the containing memory card can handle, then I can make my fortune selling terabyte+ CF cards
its not that far off david - even with a 2GB card now youd only get 4 shots at full uncompressed resolution from a phase one p45 or hasselblad 2D39 camera - scary :-) although I think Hasselblad have bypassed this by using shuttle hard drives instead of cards.
Why all this talk about a 20d replacement. You know it's coming! It's like shaking your christmas present to try to figure out what it is. Just start saving your money, because you know you gotta have one. What's your address Phil, I want to send you a kitten. lol
Thought so, hmm I wonder if anyone from Canon reads these discussions.
Are you listening Mr Canon… I want mirror lock up on the mode dial. If Kodak can do it so can you.
Luke, the mirror lock up option raises the mirror after the initial press of the shutter release. You then allow the camera to settle for a minute after which you release the shutter to expose the sensor to the light. With the mirror locked you avoid vibrations-blur during longer exposures.
Isn't that the same as a self timer? I know the 20D has a 10 second timer, but it doesn't have the 2 second timer. Is similar, just not a full second delay?
No the self timer doesn't incorporate the mirror lock up. You see the mirrors function is so you can compose through the lens. When you take a picture, the mirror flips up out of the way so the light can enter through the shutter. The self timer simply releases the shutter at a different time than the shutter release is activated. To take a picture with mirror lock-up activated the shutter release must be depressed twice (once for composing and lockup and the second time to open the shutter for the exposure to take place).
That is interesting. The mirror lock up on the D70 doesn't seem to work like that. The manual says it is for cleaning the ccd, and it doesn't allow you to take a picture while the mirror is locked. hmm.
The Kodak system is really simple. The mode dial has PASMU. Which are Program, Aperture, Shutter, Manual and lockUp. To use it you turn the dial to U, press the shutter the mirror flips up and two seconds later the shutter fires.
Boy, tuff crowd. Maybe I should try to blend in a little......A mirror lock up that's easy to get to. That would be very nice...... I have a question. Which would you prefer from a new camera. More pixels or less noise?
I’d go for less noise. Less noise at 300 dpi A3 prints would be nice.
Although if you compare the results we get now to ISO 400 film I think we are ahead on noise already.
Even less noise would be my choice. Although more pixels would be nice to zoom-crop for composition. That way we could just shoot wildly about and pick what we like.
It does kinda take the fun out of the photographer's job. In my class, we aren't allowed to crop at all just so we get used to framing in the camera. I had not been a big fan of cropping until I realized that DSLR's take pictures in a 2:3 ratio while this site runs on 3:4.
In a way, more mexapixels is a form of noise reduction. Assuming you are never printing pixel per pixel, the more megapixels, the less noise.
The problem with more pixels in the same size sensor is that the pixel has to be smaller limiting the number of electrons flowing through it creating a weaker signal making it harder for the camera manufacturer to control noise.
What I'm hoping for more than a replacement of the 20d is a compact camera with an aps size sensor other than the one that Sony is offering.
Hehe, lets rant on Sony! I am not a fan of that one myself, and I could write a 3-5 page paper explaining why. They may be creating some decent ones in the future if they are really buying Minolta's lens mount.
Canon would be mad not to launch the camera then so that they could capitalise on Nikon's current woes with technical and quality problems with the D200.
interestingly, Canon have also lined up a big press conference and launch event a few days earlier in Norway although I would have thought this isnt anything photography related as it would steal any thunder from show launches in front of the worlds press.
IT's here, the Canon 30d. Check out dpreview.com the only reason I would consider upgrading is the larger display. the other changes seem to be pretty mild. I'm disappointed that they didn't come out with a compact camera with a aps size sensor. OH well.
it looks like a massive opportunity missed here by Canon - they really looked to have dropped the ball and I cant see any current 20D users feeling the need to upgrade.
Had a quick look and to me it is not worth beans. I would still buy the 20D. Most of the changes that have taken place are good, but couldn't they have just released a firmware update for the 20D to account for the changes?
I would like the spot meter, that is it. The 350D was a waste of time as well in my opinion. What is there a couple hundred dollars difference? They must be putting most of the resources in to a new high MP full frame body. Really, that is where they are lacking when it comes to the competition. Gazes into the magic ball;-)
It's still a great camera in every respect really but it's squarely aimed at attracting new customers rather than old ones upgrading. What might bite them in the ass is new customers who havent read about Nikon's technical woes and go out and buy the D200 instead based on its bigger resolution. Like you say about the next model range down - the 350 - it doesnt leave it much scope for advancement now so one could only assume a similar superficial makeover for that come the Autumn.
They have set the price point for the 30D at $1399 and they are still offering the 20D at $1299. As well, they have added to new lenses with the new EF-S 17-55mm f/2.8 IS USM and EF 85mm f/1.2L II USM lenses.
I might be tempted if it offers Digic 3...dpreview will say. Should I be interested in those lenses? 55 isn't very long, but the stabilized 2.8 would be awesome! Also, is the 85 basically a cheaper version of the L?
Nope, no Digic 3. More ISO control, slightly tougher body, bigger screen with a larger viewing angle, new shutter "warranty" and an upgraded built-in flash to match, burst speed selection, and interesting sounding software. Seeing as it is the same price as the 20D was when it was new, it would have been much more appealing if they majorly refitted it.
The upgrades in the 85mm f/1.2L USM should only interest those already looking at the lens. I doubt they would be significant enough to interest new buyers.
The EF-S 17-55mm f/2.8 IS USM looks like a real winner, but it isn't going to be cheap. It is wide enough to be a walk-around lens for the cameras that it fits, it is significantly faster than any other EF-S lens, and, frankly, it looks pretty classy on the smaller DSLR's. What I don't understand is the price. It won't cost all that less than the camera, and most people buying entry-level DSLR's will view the camera as the glorious mechanism and the lens as something that could be scratched, so better go as cheap as possible in case it needs to be replaced. The cost is understandable when you take into account the f-stop and the stabilization, but they probably should have put a red ring around it. It is a lot of money to pay for a non-L series lens, so why not pay an extra hundred bucks and be assured that it is built like a tank? Making an EF-S L series lens would probably break the barrier between small-sensor owners and the rest of the L line up, increasing sales of their highest quality equipment.
The plunge? Um...well...I know I am going to shop around for a cheap 20D, but you will have to let me know what "the plunge" entails. Sounds so epic!
I have $1,500 in the kitty, which is enough for the camera, but not a decent lens to go with it. I am sure that I have gained the reputation of being a dreamer, which has not been my goal. I assume the 20D is going to get even cheaper when the 30D is released, so maybe I should wait another few months. If the 17-55 continues to warm on me, I may not buy a standard walkaround lens right off the bat, but rather by the other ones I was thinking about and pick up the 17-55 at a later date.
I am very surprised that they didn't make additional changes to the 30D based on "prosumer" request and the changing market. To be honest, I was shocked that it doesn't have an SD slot instead of a CF (or atleast I haven't heard of that detail yet). Also, with all these ISO changes, it baffles me that the didn't give it an ISO option of 50. 8.2 megapixels is enough for most everybody, but the market still views more as better; I imagine that people would be more impressed if they upgraded the sensor. Did they give it a 2-second timer yet?
I have heard of the expression before, I just didn't know what you were implying. It could have been getting the 30D, but it also could have meant some unspeakable act of treason, such as converting to Nikon. On the other hand, I could take the plunge of not buying a camera or ever taking pictures again. Now there's an idea! ;-)
ah but if you got a Nik'D200 you'd have to follow their technical supports advice and squint at your images or not print them too big otherwise you'll see all that nasty sensor banding on your images ;-)
sorry to get off topic, i was inspired by all that cat talk, and im not really rich enough to get new stuff, but this guy looks like he could really use a cat sometime soon
Did I tell you about the time 3 dogs got into my back yard and my cat Pearl ran across the yard and pounced on the dogs. She really opened up a can of whoop ass on them! They couldn't get back thru the fence fast enough. I would have helped them, but I was too busy rolling on the ground in tears laughing. Anyway, I'd be more than happy to loan you Pearl to take care of that dog problem your having.
Oh by the way. dpreview.com has a good review comparing the Nikon D200 and the Canon 20d and the 30D.
I couldn't find that comparison that you mentioned. Could you give me a link?
All the camera stores have been jumping at the mention of the 30D, but it seems most couldn't care less about the two new lenses. I think they will give the 17-55 a second glance once they see how well it sells, but that will take a little time. Still, it is notable that camera retailers are in the scoop regarding the replacement.
If you are thinking about getting the 20D really cheap, don't expect to get it from a normal dealer. Yes, the Rebel did drop $200 when the Rebel XT popped onto the market, but the 20D will not follow this trend. The 20D is regarded as a professional level camera while the Rebel line-up is geared for consumers. When the XT came out, all the retailers had stock in the warehouses, but they were anticipating the 30D's arrival (there are no vast quantities of the 20's sitting around to be sold). Canon has been tapering of 20D production for a little while, which makes leftovers quite scarce. The best way to get a 20D for bottom-line price is to check out ebay in order to wacth for the few stores that do have an overstock (likewise, some mail-order websites are likely to drop as well).
That isn’t exactly a very convincing or comprehensive comparison review is it? I’m not convinced that using the fact that the D200 has a built in flash when the 5D doesn’t as your main review focus wouldn’t be a huge deal breaker for anyone serious about their photography. Also doesn’t seam to mention the D200’s other unique feature – it’s stripe ridden sensor :-)
Price $1,399 without the lens 1,499 with the 17-55 Lens
Comes out beginning of April 2006, a little secret on the release date shhhh don't tell anyone.
Steve Mchugh's (the photographer whose floors I am blessed to sweep) main assistant is selling his 20D in hopes of snagging a 5D. I know he has kept excellent care of it, but he is asking a lot.
For those of you who work camera retails, coorperate offices have let slip the rumors that the 30D will be on Canon's next list of specials for authorized dealer employees. I wonder what the price will be??? (I should find out this week.)
... File not found. Should I fake it? (Y/N) - Southern DOS: Y'all reckon? (Yep/Nope) -
Smash forehead on keyboard to continue... -
All computers wait at the same speed. -
Enter any 11-digit prime number to continue...
Well, I lied when I said I would snag the 20D cheap. I ordered the Canon 30D tonight. I actually ordered by fax (you can already do it by walking into a store, ordering online, and calling ont he phone, so they had to think of something new), so I am not entirely certain how it will be worked out. For my own personal safety, I choose not to disclose the price that I am getting it for. Oddly enough, the "kit lens" that I chose is the Canon 100mm f/2.8 macro. I like macro, I like long, and I am afraid the deal I was offered on it would go away if I didn't snag it quick. It will be interesting not having a zoom lens. :-D
They say it will take 4-6 weeks to ship the product, which may be lengthened if there is already a que for ordering the camera, but I imagine that Canon has already produced a bunch of them, and they (not Canon this time) say it is always less time than expected when you are warned "4-6 weeks".
I don't like to be considered a dreamer, so it is important for me to follow through on things I say will happen. I sent for it and I have the dough, but I can't be certain it will arrive until it is on my doorstep.
... File not found. Should I fake it? (Y/N) - Southern DOS: Y'all reckon? (Yep/Nope) -
Smash forehead on keyboard to continue... -
All computers wait at the same speed. -
Enter any 11-digit prime number to continue...
Can the 20/30D take multiple exposures? I suppose it wouldn't be that hard to merge two images togethor using software, but it would be nice to know if it can be done from the camera.
Well, I couldn't decide whether to post a picture of a robotic cat or a cat ornament, so I decided to make it a picture of a robotic cat ornament. It is in the new images gallery. ;-)
Potential name ideas are Audrey, Autumn, Thor, Douglas, Smithers, and Gunther. I am open to suggestions. (The nice thing about this whole set up is that if a name doesn't work for the camera, I can always give it to a lens.)