i am a comment reader. it is my opinion that many of the comments written by viewers are overly complimentary. are we supposed to make the photographer happy by saying what he/she would like to hear? if we have suggestions should they be sent as personal messages so as not to influence other viewers? i appreciate all of what is said to me about my images, but i'd like to become a better photographer. of course, those of you who "know" me know i've become paranoid about my scores. i'd like to hear comments from those who give the c scores so i can know what the criteria is and how they, as judges, think i can do better.

Most people are hesitant to give a critical review .. you can even beg for pointers on improving and get very few, if any

if something in a photo pokes me in the ribs I might point it out .. sometimes I feel bad about doing that .. sometimes I receive a nasty PM from the person saying I had no business saying that ..... "wot-evah"

Not all photos need that kind of critique .. and to search all photos posted on this site for something to nit-pick really defeats the purpose .. I have a tendancy to give my most critical reviews on photos that have generated a comment request, due to those photos generally needing help or they would have attracted attention on their own ..

I would like to see an addition to the "upload page" that says .. If you post your work to a public forum, such as Caedes.net .. you should be open to input

It may be people are not familiar with terms used in photgraphy: mood, line, form, composition, DOF, etc......also i think most people are reluctant to say what they really feel lest someone be offended..some people are using this site as a social gathering-place, it seems to me....nothing wrong with that...BUT it does interefere with honest, clear, informative feedback. The C-index, I am afraid, therefore reflects poorly on a work, as people who make it their business to make friends and not offend another or who lack the vocabulary are likely to vote based on factors others than merit of photo....SO.I do appreciate it when I get a real critique such as that by philcUk or Keifer, or Milo, or Caine, etc..sorry to leave some names out....you know who you are.....

Read through the forums and you will see many discussions on this topic. Some people would argue that it is important to encourage artists rather than being overly critical... personally I think most members tend to err on the side of praising overly much and are perhaps afraid of giving genuine criticism, but after a few years on the site I realise that is never going to change. However you should certainly offer your opinion to people if you think it might help them, don't be afraid of a negative response as that happens extremely rarely.

I agree, I usually mention one or two things negative, but I always mix it in with a couple of positive words, so the artist is encouraged to do better next time. Plus the artist learns what should be kept same and what should be changed while doing a similar image. I've often gotten constructive criticism on my work, and I love it as it always helps me the next time.

so far, when i have something to suggest i send it in a personal message.

Jen, No offense, but how do you KNOW that a person is not sincere when they comment and appear "overly nice"? Speaking for myself, I am first to admit that I HATE giving a critique in which I have to say "this could be better" or "that would be better if"...
I find it hard, because perspectives are individual. Some people like photos NATURAL....as close to as truly seen as possible...{me}, and others go crazy with over-sharpening and deep color saturation....and I get comments constantly, that I should saturate and sharpen this one or that one, but hey....I like it as is sometimes....and either I agree on their critique, and try again with their advice/tips, or I disagree, and simply say thanks! And keep it as is....no harm done. On that note....who am I to decide my perspective would be better than the submitting artist's? When I see an obvious flaw...such as maybe a crumpled paper in an otherwise pristine landscape shot, or power lines, or some unsightly distraction, I might go clone it out myself...and pm the artist and ask if I may send an edited shot to them and explain what I did and why...and if they are happy...I teach them how. I don't always critique in public forum coz maybe it is nicer when it's pm'd and private. Especially if you see a barrage of comments on a person's work that all says basically the same thing!
I cover this site in comments....as many as possible, because I hate it when somebody is kinda new...and has GREAT work, but due to not having a massive friends list...they get few comments. { meaning less see the work, NOT saying more friends-more comments coz they like you better}. I don't think that people are dishonest or schmoozing just because they say nice things...never offer critique's. Maybe they just don't feel qualified, and all I can say is at least they care enough to make a comment at all. If the c-index is important to somebody....focus on your works that get highest c-index rating...and compare to your work that gets lower and analyze the differences...and just strive to improve the work based on your findings. If comments matter most to you, then work to cover territory and give comments as well....and be sincere and follow your own intuition when tact is a high advisory factor. Critique is great....we learn from it...though sometimes people DISCOURAGE with being overly pompous in their critiques.
I think you do great work, and I don't understand why you feel discouraged.

Plus, people say nice things because there are some people out there who view constructive criticism as just criticism & a slam on their work.....so I tend to err on the side of caution. Because you just never know sometimes how someone is going to take something said. Unless your good friends or the artist has stated a desire for constructive criticism, in order to grow in their craft, like kodo34, for instance.
But I agree with Terri & I don't understand why you feel so discouraged. You really shouldn't.

I really don't see any harm in critiquing an image publicly, I do that all the time. I always point out at least one or two things I LIKE about the image along with one or two critiques. I have gotten a few PMs saying I shouldn't be "arrogant" while pointing out something I personally think could be better in the image, but whatever. I have always encouraged the artist to try again. I have gotten (constructively) negative comments on my images, and at first, I will admit that I do feel disappointed, but then I realize that the person is trying to help me improve. Most of my images get a c-index of around 45 and that's fine with me. I don't care about the c-index, as it is NOT important.
I occasionally go through my gallery and delete a couple of bad images. I was going to delete a traditional, but after getting a PM from a member saying that she loved my work and that same traditional drawing had been her favorite since she joined the site, I decided to keep that low-rated traditional, and have never worried about the c-index.
Terri - Yes, I've seen a lot of comments that are extra-nice to the artists and have potential to discourage them as the comments sound fake-nice.
Jen - You shouldn't be discouraged, your images are beautiful and you worked to get them the way they are.

Noor, it again....is PERCEPTION. What may be "fake-nice" to YOU, may be genuine FROM the commentor. I have no problem with receiving criticism either....and if you re-read what I wrote, it is pretty clear that I have no problem getting it. I have learned a lot....and even invited others to re-work my photo and submit their version. If not for critiques, I'd still be posting sucky picture manip's of hairy moss globes. I do find it annoying as hell to see the EXACT same { "critique"} comment on ANYBODY's work....like beating somebody over the head with the same point only serves to embarrass and discourage. And it can be argued that everybody doesn't always read every comment posted before leaving one themselves, but if you're gonna leave a basically blah critique, maybe considering / scanning the prior comments would keep you from beating an already dead dog.
Back on re: "fake-nice".....I think that deciding who is "fake-nice" or "sincere" is a judgement call on the integrity of others and we should only be accountable for our own actions. If I say nice things on a person's work...I mean it. If I think it TOTALLY sucks, I TOTALLY avoid it.....skip it.....OR I decide to point out what I like and either PM what I think might be an improvement....or NICELY point out on same comment of the work. And I do look to see if it has already been mentioned before I call attention to it.
I think what bugs me about this whole suggestion that anybody is "fake-nice" on comments, is the fact that some of us comment dozens and dozens a day....and I don't need self pity, but I have kienbock's disease in my hands and after awhile...maybe my comments have me in a pain ratio of "holy shit", so I shorten them more and more and then stop when I can't take it. I hate thinking that what I am doing to try to be a good Caedesian member is being written off as "fakey-nice" just because my style maybe is not YOUR style. No---nobody mentions names...but I speak up because I cannot imagine why one would waste their time bs'ing on people's work . It is discouraging to imagine that I maybe spent 4 hours of a day on and off trying to give support or smiles but behind my back I am considered "fake-nice".

I didn't exactly mean it that way. I've noticed that almost all commentators say "Agree with above" or something like that if they agree with another critique. I don't think I've ever come across a single image with more than one critique saying the same thing by two different people. Considering the fact that I generally check out the new images, I'm usually the first or second to comment, but when I agree with another person, I simply say that I agree, and also sometimes give extra info. I didn't mean that you were being fake-nice, I meant others being way too nice to a poorly done image. If I come across an image that sucks, I'll point out one thing I like and suggest (never via PM) nicely how it could be improved. I never skip over if I think the artist needs help. I do understand about your kienbock's disease, and I also try to comment on like every single image I can get my hands on. About perception, I can see your point, but if the commentator is sincere, I'm pretty sure he/she would consider how it might sound to the artist. My apologies if I was implying you were being fake-nice, I was talking about some other people.

No harm done, and maybe I am over-sensitive { PMS again?}
Gives Noor a girly-hug.....:)


PS: After awhile....it DOES start to become a chore to think of something new to say. It doesn't mean a person is NOT sincere...
but maybe sincerely out of creative stuff to say?

Hey! Let's start a "CREATIVE CRAP / COMMENT CLASS!!!!!!!!!! :)

I must admit that I'm also a bit oversensitive due to some recent happenings, but oh well.. *hugs* =)

I'm in!

Noooooor, Tell me that my shirt does NOT make me look fat......as creatively as possible...hahahaha

Um, well, due to a guy who makes money by snapping buttons on strange black things and dipping thin paper in lye or whatever, etc.etc. and since he did a bad job i.e. getting a 2D copy of only your head from the neck up and cutting off the rest, I can't see your shirt and due to the laws of logical reasoning, can't judge if your shirt makes you fat or not!

Creative!!!!!!!!!:)

'K, an assignment for you! Hmmmmm.......tell me as creatively as possible that it's a benefit to the world if I play video/computer games ALL day long! LOL!

Back on subject... If I see something I like, I leave a comment. If I don't like it, I don't. Sometimes I'm ambivalent.
My mother said, "If you can't say anything nice, then say nothing at all". I am not a good enough photographer to critique some people's work. Fractals....well if it moves me, I comment. I do welcome constructive criticism from others because I want to learn to do better...and I have learned a lot here already.

I have to agree with the original poster that we could be alittle more constructive by giving out some negative comments on this site. I must say the thing that gets me is when i look through the comments on an image and they are saying things about how it is sharp and while i was thinking how it would be so much better if it were in focus. But i am comming to accept that this is a desktop site, not a critique forum like i wish it was. That was my 2 cents.

You must be the change you wish to see in the world.

--Mahatma Gandhi

Leaving negative comments isn't always so easy...and like Cindy...I pretty much do what she does.
I feel like...who am I to say MY perspective is better than the artists'? Maybe somebody wants to blur a piece for a soft, dream-like effect...and I hate saying...wish it were in focus...and worry I'd hurt feelings. I do my best when commenting. { shrugs}