I am wondering if the number for votes shown in Caedes Control is actual number of votes or the average for all votes..........also: possible to notify artist when work placed in Permamnent Gallery? Merci

I do believe it is the actual number of votes .. the website tries to give all images an average of ten and then de-prioritizes them as it moves on to others

for example, I have four images with 9 and one with 10

the new voting system was put in place in september of 05 and in march of 06 .. this was posted Good news with voting

and .. I think they are working on notification .. but if you look at your Caedes Control .. you will notice that it says .. for example .. new images->Photography->Manipulation ..or it will just say .. Photography->Manipulation if it has been moved to the "perms"

also .. the "perms" aren't really "perms" .. they get culled for "spring cleaning" as well .. 'tis a mystary where the term "perm" originated .. rumor has it the name was geri

Thanks for information; i am looking at my Control now and it looks weird to me.Can it be virtually ALL have 9 votes?? Must be an average count. Looks like no mor than 9 votes ever came in and I find that hard to believe.......one would expect a larger variation in number of people voting.......some lower/ some higher........ Also I am thinking C-Index is off..for example: Shimmer has 9,20,8 and an index of 53; Totem has 9,19,8 and an index of 30.WHAT!? Does not make sense...........

'Shimmer' has:
20 views
8 downloads
9 votes and
53:100 c-index
That means:
1) Viewing: 20 persons came on your 'Shimmer'. In them, 8 persons downloaded the image
2) Voting: by the New voting system Caedes tried to renew the old system, corrupted by cheaters. Now, each member must vote on min. 10 images to be able to upload 1 image. But there are so many images on the site, that it took several months to give at least 8 or 10 votes to each images (new or old).
'Shimmer' received 9 votes by the "New voting system" and the result is 53:100
It seems correct, I think

That explains Shimmer but does not address how the other has such close numbers and yet has much lower Index.........also just cannot believe in almost every case, 9 votes were cast.law of averages says some would receive lower and higher........cannot be coincidence here.

Maybe you should wait a little and see if the numbers become different.
If you look at my Amazing! forum, you'll find in the 'Photography gallery' a good c-index distribution.
A part of the problem is that a photographer as many difficulties to give a vote on a computer generated picture and vice-versa. So, 10 votes are'nt enough representative...

You know. it is looking like no matter what I do, i am locked into never getting above 9 or 10 votes.......pretty discouraging.....if i go by the numbers, no matter how many people visit, I am locked into a 9........strange!

I visited your 'Totem' and 'Shimmer' just now ;-)
No discouraging! Caedes.net is a very nice community and a good way to improve your art. You are here from 2 weeks. Lets find your friends and your own style
In the New Voting System, I can recognize some members just by the quality and the edits...

Dante: I think that you are misunderstanding which voting system is being displayed in the caedes Control. It is showing the total number of votes from the random voting (voting booth). This is the voting which determines the c-index. As you can see from the voting statistics page, most images have between 9 and 10 votes total.

As a side note the 9 to 10 votes is a huge improvement from the system that was in place before the new one. It was not uncommon for an image to stay below 5 for a very long time if there wasn't enough interest in it. Now everything gets voted on, and you are garrentied to get the 10 votes, and im sure as time passes that will move up to 11, and on. It is just the site wants to keep the average even across the site, and there are alot of images, with not as many people voting.

Well, I have read all of the above and I will say that the system is guaranteeing mediocrity because it ensures the laws of averages is most important vs. real quality of works submitted. I say this because with each photo one sees, there is an opportunity to vote on it..on its quality......this ought to be basis for what is deemed high/low quality.NOT the random voting booth. I am disappointed.

I have a theoretical question: how does one arrive at a high c-index? Please clarify step-by-step (eg.precisely what goes into formulating it?); i am wanting to understand as I am being told i am misunderstanding and mixing up information.......anyone? I have written to a couple of my friends here and they do not get it either..........it would help all members, i believe....Merci bien.Philippe B.

If you get high votes you get a high c-index. It's not very complicated.

there is the possibility that you are submitting "artsy" shots and they are being judged for suitability as a desktop .. we've had several people bump into this invisible wall

Keifer.Merci for your feedback; you may onto something here: I forget that many people are looking for a desktop and not necessarily a good photo......that said, I will continue to submit what i need to-artsy or not. I was hoping to get a more complete answer, Samatar, but it would appear you do not care to explain. Platitiudes are not very helpful. If you do not care to explain to the membership, well.............says alot!

I'm not really sure that was called for

What's to explain????? The c-index is an average of the votes you recieve, so if you get high votes then you have a high c-index. How can I explain it any more "completely" than that?

As you obviously don't appreciate my attempt to help you I won't continue to bother.

I think that comment towards Sam was a bit unfair... Samatar, Keifer, PPidgeon, Milo and Caedes have sufficently answered your question.. the voting is through the random voting, everyone gets the same amount of votes therefore its much fairer to everyone as it stops people voting 10 on their own images 50+ times (which used to happen)... the c-index depends on what people voted your images .. the views are how many people looked at your image on the page.. downloads is how many people looked at it full view... what exactly are you asking for when you ask for a "complete" answer..

I am confuse as to how anyone gets higher in c-index as in Random voting, the highest number is 10.............so if one has an average of 9 or 10.where to go from there? Now go up Above and look at previous entry for Shimmer and Totem and you will see the disparity is great and this caused me to doubt veracity of system....people are getting very high c-index numbers sometimes.do not understand how that is given the above statement i made here and the seeming imposibility of getting higher than a ten in random which ought to mean one can only get a certain number for index rating.........My basisc question is: how does one get a higher c-index number with the facts in hand? The number of people voting does not seem to matter; it is the number they choose in random...you understand my dilemma now? Merci

If more people vote, the average becomes more accurate. And then the c-index might go up or down based on different people's votes. The c-index aims to give only a rough idea of the quality of the image, according to the FAQs.

I would say that if you want a high c-index, follow the suggestions made by the commentators. One of my images had a c-index of about 40, but when I followed some suggestions and reworked it just a tad bit, the c-index went to 70, and I have also learnt a lot from the photographers here.

And, there have been people who try and mess up with the voting, but Geri changed the system to note down what each person's vote was, so I doubt many people have been cheating with the voting.

Hm... I think I sort of understand what you are getting at. I'm in doubt though... There is no "getting higher" c-index. You seem to think that they vote random, not just get random images to vote on. Is this correct or do I misunderstand you?

Anyhow. It doesn't matter if I don't get exactly what you are getting at.

The real, big, ultimate point regarding c-index, is: It is not important. Sure, getting high votes is nice and could give a good, sometimes much needed ego-boost. It does not tell you if an image is good or not thought really. If your shots are too "artsy" you may get a thumbs down in the voting booth.

Some, even many pieces, depending of how picky you are, could not really be described as that great, even if they have higher c-index. There is some, often consisten co-variation though, of how the c-index turns out and the over all quality of an image. Not all the time though.

So, it is more or less justified to question the veracity of c-index, if you believe it to be a correct evaluation of the quality of an image. It's only supposed to be a rough estimate though, and as such it works out nicely.

The best way to deal with that is like I say to not bother too much about it.

As to the question of how an image gets a low or high c-index. I'm not sure how I can explain it further. Everyone gets an equal share of ratings, thanks to the voting booth. This is very good. Before it was constituted, or how you say it, it was very common that people never got enough votes at all. They perhaps got only 3 or so. So don't feel bad you get 9 or 10 votes.

The votes you get could be (consistently) high or low or (most probably) varied and is statistically adjusted by some secret formula (that I never care about, since I wouldn't understand it anyway) and then you get to see that little figure in your control panel. The number of views and "downloads" are part of the c-index too I think, or used to be at least.

At any rate. Take my advice, twice given already (it IS that important, it's not that I don't think you wouldn't get it) and now for the third time. Don't bend your mind around the c-index too much. It's not that important.

No, i really don't understand your dilemma now. You are right, the c-index is a direct translation of what people choose in the random voting booth. If someone has an average of 9 or 10 they will have a c-index around 90 or something. The only thing that would affect that is the formulas that look at the voters voting habits. The site takes a look at how people vote in the past to help keep that average of 50 going on the site. Each members votes are avereaged to 5. So i suppose if someone who votes themselves with an avereage of 5 votes 9 on one of your pictures that will go towards bringing your c-index up to 90.

Dante - I think I see your problem. 9 or 10 is the number of votes that your image has received, not the average vote that the image has gotten.

If you have 10 votes, and they receive individually a 4, 6, 7, 7, 5, 8, 7, 5, 6, 8 that will average out to 6.3, and you will have a c-index of 63 out of 100.

It is my understanding that there are a few more considerations, such as giving less weight to somebody's vote who consistently gives images poor votes, but that's the basics of it.

Hehe! We needed a "Quadrisexual Alien" to find the explanation... ;-)

don't knock it till you've tried it .. (*checks the schedule*) .. that should be soon

8•P

Right on target ! :)

I pronounce this thread "dead". Someone shoot it, please before we wind up back in the "C-Index Wars" of '05.

what? reenactments aren't performed yearly here?