***i've reconcidered and I think that PC's and Macs are both great machines...

at last .. at last .. one voice speaks true

It's a shame the other mac-o-philes have been programmed to kill her now .. I wonder how she bucked her own programming .. maybe the install program crashed

well… on average… since installing after OSX after it became stable enough (bout 3 years ago now?) I crash no more than once every 3 or 4 months. At one point the computer had been on so long the pram battery died and it was running on ghost… just didn't know til I actually shut it down cuz I went away for a long weekend… and came back to *AAACK*!

oops… I missed part of Froo's post… Froo… that's a sign you probably need to add some memory and life will MAGICALLY get better!

Most operating systems are more stable than they were say 6 years ago, as Microsoft upgraded the consumer OS to its NT core, and Apple upgraded their OS to have a Unix core, both of which are more stable than their predessors. By the way, that's a cool story Cat!

You must also note that windows is comming out with vista soon...(thats what they said with longhorn *rolls eyes*)

Btw, is it called a PC, or windows, or a normal computer? Lol, i cant decide, because isnt a mac also a PC. But windows doesnt work either b/c there is also linux and what not. Maybe i should called them "gates"...seriously tho, whats the "technical" term for a PC?

Just to clearify, a mac is a mac, not an apple? Apple is the brand, mac is the computer part? (like dell DIMENSION)

Well, all the computers that Apple puts out are called "Mac" somewhere in the name. Wintel is maybe the psudoterm you are looking for. Basically, the terms are accepted shorthand for Personal computers running Microsoft Windows, and Apple computers running Apple's Operating System. So you see why we use these terms?

I think Noah should post his speech here .. so that we all have a chance to confuse him further in the eleventh hour

Oh god, you dont want to hear my speech! My excuse this time is: its all written on notecards, sorry. Only works when im speaking off the top of my head, sorry again. =P

Btw, you guys really did confuse the bajiggies outa me. Now im starting to wish my topic was: pro mac; pro pc is (relativly) hard to do!

Let's see, Macs are better looking, faster, and can run Windows, so how do PC's compare?

but .. don't you view the dual booting into WINDOWS as an admission of failure ... like .. you've been a vegetarian all your life .. but Schlomoe's King-Size Kosher Grease Pigs are "to die for" .. so you're willing to throw your health ritual into the trashbin for the time it takes you to wolf one down

I'm just askin' is all

Well, at the worst it means that the one program that isn't for Mac that you would terribly miss would be available to you. Windows is not my favorite OS, but it is too compatable with everything (unfortunetly) to not have also. Besides, if I'm going to have to run Windows, I'd rather it be in the beautiful, quiet, little Mac box than a regular roaring PC.

edit...

The only reason Apple switched to Intel chips is because they knew IBM could no longer manufacture the number of processors Apple needed. Apple upgraded to dual-core processors, not the pathetic Pentium 4 or Celeron. Apple could have switched to AMD, and probably still had the same powerful processor, but Intel is more of a visible company, so Apple chose them.

Honestly, I think Windows is the UGLIEST Operating System available. The only reason I use Windows is because I HAVE to.

Apple used to be able to offer their computers cheap to Education. My Elementary School was filled with LCs and a few iMacs. With quantity discounts, the price is a moot point.

schools buy macs because Apple very proactively support education rather than the usual MS soundbites and offer vast discounts on hardware to educational establishments or in many cases - donate them free of charge. The IBM fallout has been discussed before and is primarily due to IBM's failure to deliver on their promises and Apples $5 billion investment in a new production plant for IBM. The final straw was when IBM switched the development of the cell/power pc chipset to production for the sony PS3 and Microsoft Xbox 360.

Interesting. But windows will come out with a new operating system soon..its kinda like comparing one of the mac os's made 4 years ago. On that matter, how old is XP!? Im starting to get tired of it.

Another question, is the baby with the spinny hat the only pro pc person (other than me, but im borderline now) on this site!?

XP is actually just a derivative on Windows 2000/NT but in it's party frock - so pretty old really. Vista is supposed to be coming soon but time will tell. Keith's a bipartisan guy at heart - the spinny hat is a secret antenna that picks up readers brainwaves.

If i had some cash laying around right now, my choice between a mac and a pc is if vista will be anygood.

...but i dont have any money laying around =P

and your money may not be legal tender by the time vista surfaces anyways ;-)

The most anticipated piece of vaporware in history. And its still not here!

Har-har phil. Just b/c longhorn was a little "late?".....er, non existant. lol

Mac OS X Leopard will be here before Microsoft Windows Vista, most likely.

Tiger....leopard...i bet the next will be panther!

panther's been and gone along w/jaguar

Nope. Panther is a previous version

lol...lion then

To sum up:
Macs:
-Have more attractive hardware
-Have more updated software
-Have hardware that is more up to date than Pc's generally do
-Don't have 50 million viruses
-Don't have virtually any spyware
-Can run Windows, too
-Are pro-education
-Run an OS that is much more asthetically pleasing than Windows
-Are tainted to be perfect in my opinion

PC's:
-Are cheaper

Here is a wonderful illustration:
http://www.deviantart.com/deviation/21639814/

and .. (drum roll) .. have 5% of the market share .. which, in any other marketplace, is a pretty good indicator of .. of .. of something

Aw shaddup!

Macs tend to last longer, and have a higher resale value. My home network (until I upgraded it all between last Nov. and Jan.) was an 8 year old biege G3 and two 7 year old B&W G3s. Not many PCs last even half the long.
Keifer- only 5% of the market share?... That indicates that only 5% of computer buyers are smart shoppers. :cP

With a PC you have to figure in at least @ $100 a year for virus software and then many PCs only have a trial version of MS Office, and after 3 months you have to buy it (between $86 to $137) if you want to keep using it. All the Macs I bought came with full unlimited versions of Appleworks (which can open and save MS office files among other formats) for free. Virus software is not really needed for Macs unless you have MS Office or EI installed (damn macros).

i dont agree with the more updates on macs. Also the updates that mac computers have (hardware wise) is not very frequent. They only change the computer's specs every...well, a long time.

I dont run virus software + my computer runs fine
There are ways around the "trail versions" ;-) ..
Who really wnats to write a virus for macs anyways!? lol, waste of their time messing with fools.
Pro-education? Whatabout when students get a job (that mr jobs) in the "real world" which use PC's...they will be like: "how do i change the background!?" and other simple tasks, let alone other software. Plz note ihave no clue what im talking about. But yes, they do know how to operate a mac!

Say something does go wrong with your mac (my grandma had a problem)...you have to wait a few days (ooo long time there) for your part to arrive...then some nerd to help fix it. On a pc its like, bam, i know whats wrong, bam go down to target and grab your little chip =P ...then go home and rip open the casing and slid it in....or just call up your neighbor if you have no clue what went wrong...but this happening to a mac is rare

Plus the 1 mouse button is still annoying me! And the external mouse is not a solution! (laptop wise)

Clueless,
Noah Nott

I will pay for anybody's airfare if they want to sit in on Noah's speech .. No, uh, NOT

No, uh, not...never thought of that. Thanks keith, i'll use that. Lol. Suprised i havent thought of that =O

Speech is over...done...finito....I was nervous, lol. Mainly b/c i hate giving speeches. So no, wasnt planning on becoming the president or anything. (-.-) ...i got an excuse for this one too: im a science and math guy.

Oh, are you talking about the built in mose on the laptop? Those things are impossible to use anyway... just buy a cordless USB mouse and use that. Or a trackball if you have no surface to use.

how many miles to the Sun? .. now, convert to kilometers for our euro brethren .. and, finally, .. how many football fields to the Sun?

(*looks at watch*) .. (*taps foot*)

Ah the great 5% bashing.... always popular with pc users until you assess the figures individually instead of lumping all pc's under the same roof. HP, Dell and Lenovo are the ten tonne gorillas of the market with Dell and HP both holding around 30% market share each, Acer come in fourth whilst Apple and Toshiba tie for fifth place with approximately the same market share. NASDAQ market analysts predict however that Apple will climb to fourth overall by the end of trading in 2006 with a predicted share of just over 9%. So not doing too badly really. Apple are also in a very small group of manufacturers who manufacture both their own hardware and OS systems including Silicon Graphics (currently in Chapter 11 bankruptcy – how the mighty fall) and Sun Micro both of whom lag behind Apple in market share.

Oh yeah, it is approximately 93,000,000 miles to the sun from the earth or 149,668,992 kilometres and in beanie money that’s 1.25772262 x10 to the power of 9 euro spec soccer pitches which, I am reliably informed, is quite a lot. The distance in American football pitches is around 8% more as they don’t have run as far. Bless. I really do have far too much time on my hands today.

obviously....

Who doesn't like the chime?

Lenovo? .. huh?

maybe I should get out more

I'm confused. Enlighten me.

Lenovo is the uber huge Chinese tech company that swallowed up IBM last year. In March, the State Department bought nearly 16,000 Lenovo/IBM thinkpad computers, valued at more than US$13 million. The computers bought by the State Department were assembled in the United States and Mexico with integrated circuits made in Taiwan (in other words – the same as it was when IBM owned itself) but it has since been decided that these machines, built by Americans, in America, pose a national security risk due to the Chinese ownership of the parent company and may be used for intelligence gathering purposes by the Chinese. Way to waste those taxpayers’ dollars guys!

To sum up:
Macs:
-Have more attractive hardware
-Have more updated software
-Have hardware that is more up to date than Pc's generally do
-Don't have 50 million viruses
-Don't have virtually any spyware
-Can run Windows, too
-Are pro-education
-Run an OS that is much more asthetically pleasing than Windows
-Have the cool startup chime (instead of the awful beep)
-Are tainted to be perfect in my opinion

PC's:
-Are cheaper
-Are more supported software-wise

Here is a wonderful illustration:
http://www.deviantart.com/deviation/21639814/

har-har...to the image. Dont forget the twomouse buttons on windows! Thats a big one. =) I cant play runescape on my brother's apple laptop unless i sit at a table and use an external mouse...well i could, but i would have to click twice as many times, or press two buttons at once -.-


Not to mention the sound quality on the laptops! Lol, nobody has ever talked about this, but comparing my "dump truck" to my brothers "G4" his sound is ...well you can only hear it if you are 2 inches away + it doesnt get the bass very well.

But come to think of it, who really cares!? Buy what makes you happy....

....windows.

"tainted to be perfect" ... run for president, I'll vote for you

you meant touted, no?

Alas! The Keith-meister has caught an error of mine!

To sum up:
Macs:
-Have more attractive hardware
-Have more updated software
-Have hardware that is more up to date than Pc's generally do
-Don't have 50 million viruses
-Don't have virtually any spyware
-Can run Windows, too
-Are pro-education
-Run an OS that is much more asthetically pleasing than Windows
-Have the cool startup chime (instead of the awful beep)
-Only NEED one mouse button!
-Are touted to be perfect in my opinion

PC's:
-Are cheaper
-Are more supported software-wise
-NEED two or three button mice
-Have that awful Beep
-Have 50 million + viruses
-Have spyware
-Come in an ugly beige case

Here is a wonderful illustration:
http://www.deviantart.com/deviation/21639814/

lol...not NEED, its a consumer (me) WANT to make game play more efficient =)

Nice to see you made our list longer!

actually .. I do think it was right the first time .. change it back

You guys obviously don't know your PC lore. Longhorn was the codename for Windows Vista, so it's not that it hasn't appeared... it's just taking an age and a half to be fully developed.

As for me, I'm a PC guy. A PC is only as good as the stuff you put into it. Garbage In, Garbage out. If you don't install any old junk, and make sure to get high quality hardware, then you shouldn't have any major problems. I can't even remember when last my PC hanged... and I'm using Windows XP.

Your "Macs are prettier" theory is also debunked. There are lots of customization and stunning looking chassis available... most of which look much better than a Mac. The only prettier aspect to a slight degree is the OS, but with Vista that should be sorted.

Go PC's!

'The only prettier aspect to a slight degree is the OS, but with Vista that should be sorted' and that is because..... ;-)

There are very few PC cases I would ever think of as well designed and attractive - the odd exceptions including people like Sony, Phillips etc who at least look like they have put some effort into it rather than just slapping on lots of neon lights, see through panels and spinning alloys. I think with computer design - as with most things in life - less is definitely more.

KJ is right about keeping your OS clean as well - that also applies to just about any OS - seeing the spinning beach ball of boredom far too often on your mac? then it's probably time for a clean sweep/fresh install and put less junk on next time.

To sum up:
Macs:
-Have more attractive hardware
-Have more updated software
-Have hardware that is more up to date than Pc's generally do
-Don't have 50 million viruses
-Don't have virtually any spyware
-Can run Windows, too
-Are pro-education
-Run an OS that is much more asthetically pleasing than Windows
-Have the cool startup chime (instead of the awful beep)
-Only NEED one mouse button!
-Have better internet security
-Have been built much more compact than Pc's (Mini).
-Are touted to be perfect in my opinion

PC's:
-Are cheaper
-Are more supported software-wise
-NEED two or three button mice
-Have that awful Beep
-Have 50 million + viruses
-Have spyware
-Come in an ugly beige case

Here is a wonderful illustration:
http://www.deviantart.com/deviation/21639814/

Most people that say "Macs Suck"...have probably never used one. After interacting with Macs in school and some of my job locations, (and this was still utilizing the old Motorola G-Series processors instead of the new Intels) I've gotten spoiled! First of all, the Unix-based Mac OS has a lot more flexibility with interacting with digital camera/MP3 player/etc. on board software than does anything Windows, and with Mac, you can name your project/document just as it is...without the .xxx format classification or even worry about it...except when interacting with something Windows. Second...graphics programs (such as Photoshop,Illustrator,Dreamweaver,Flash...etc) tend to run much faster and with less process freeze-ups on a Mac OS platform than on Windows...and Third, in the sound industry, it is Mac... and NOT PC/Windows units that are given the complex tasks of automating mixing boards, ADAT machines, multitrack sequencers, music workstations, effects processors, and so-called "stand alone" mastering devices...True, Macs come at a higher price, but with the flexibility and reliable reputation Macs have..it's well worth the expense!

I really dont know if the expense thing is so much of an issue these days - we just got some very nice Vaio laptops in at a clients that really look the business - but cost 25% more than an equivalent Apple MacBook Pro - it would seam that in both sectors - you really do get what you pay for.

I agree, Phil. Most PC's people buy are (no offense to anyone) cheap crap. The cases are cheap steal stamped and cut into a box by bored workers on an assembly line. The drives maybe semi-decent, but the board with onboard audio and picture is also dismal at best. As far as reliability, Apple is one of the best, according to Consumer Reports, and some of the cheepie cookie-cutter 'deals' are among the worst as far as reliability. You DO get what you pay for.

fine fine! you win!

...but the 1 mouse button thing needs work. =P

they dont have one button mice! - oh ok the laptops do - so buy a wireless gamepad for it! :-)

Then buy a Mighty Mouse! It has two buttons!

No no! You not getting my point (hehe, i found somthing to complain about). I'm saying when im walking around a house with a LAPTOP which has ONE MOUSE BUTTON...you can't nessesarily: walk around a house with a LAPTOP with a EXTERNAL MOUSE/GAMPAD and play a game.

So if im going to play a game on a back, i have to be sitting at a desk which has enough SPACE to use a mouse.

I think its clear now? lol

you could carry the gamepad in your pocket until you get to where you want to be to play the game - its just a thought and a simple logistical solution....

simple...what if my pocket doesnt have enough space for a gamepad? lol

get bigger pockets ;-)

thats adding up on costs....that goes under "maintanance" costs, so, so much for macs being cheaper to maintain. =P

PC laptops have those annoying eraser thingys, so how is this that annoying? Just push the command key and the button.

i usually prefer using 1 hand when playing a game.... + i dont choose computers with annoying eraser thingys. You touch the "annoying eraser thingy" and the mouse flies off the screen! -.-

Most games that I know of require using two hands anyway.

To sum up (again):
Macs:
-Have more attractive hardware
-Have more updated software
-Have hardware that is more up to date than Pc's generally do
-Don't have 50 million viruses
-Don't have virtually any spyware
-Can run Windows, too
-Are pro-education
-Run an OS that is much more asthetically pleasing than Windows
-Have the cool startup chime (instead of the awful beep)
-Only NEED one mouse button!
-Have better internet security
-Have been built much more compact than Pc's (Mini).
-Are very quiet or silent
-Have a decent Web Browser with the OS
-Are touted to be perfect in my opinion

PC's:
-Are cheaper
-Are more supported software-wise
-NEED two or three button mice
-Have that awful Beep
-Have 50 million + viruses
-Have spyware
-Come in an ugly beige case
-Range from wisper-quiet (if you have a decent one) to obnoxiously loud (most)
-With Windows come with the lousiest Web Browser in the history of the web.

Here is a wonderful illustration:
http://www.deviantart.com/deviation/21639814/

yes...but the one i play i use one hand..unless typing or moving the camera view. The world revolves around me =P (runescape.com if u were wondering...pretty fun, but usually only middle school ppl play it! It's like world of warcraft just that its free and graphix need a lot of work)

Internet games aren't my area of fun, so I can't help but think you are just lazy in wanting to play a game with one hand.

=P right again...

Holy macaroni! My computer's taskbar (is that what its called) dissapeared....but i didnt have to restart. I just closed all the applications with the force quit thing. =P so this doesnt count under my over a month streak of no crashes, right?...since i didnt reboot.

*edit from after reboot* Well, so yeah, after *points up* that stuff happened. I opened iTunes (dont rub it in) and guess what my computer did...it froze. Yeah, so so much for my month long streak of no crashes.

It must have heard you...

Revenge of the Blue Screen of Death! It's there, lurking in the background.

Please, the relative differences between the macs and pcs have certainly closed in recent years. I am an old mac guy, but I have been using a pc for the last 5 years b/c I had to. Like crusader, my dell running xp pro hasn't hung or crashed longer than I can remember. Its not the machine, its what you put through the computer that matters. Granted, I am a network technician and can do what most consumers cannot; seriously, a well maintained pc is every bit as reliable as a well maintained mac. My 2 cents: macs are sexy like a euro motorcar and as much fun, pcs are more useful like a good minivan or pickup truck for every day stuff.

um… not if your everyday business is in the graphic arts or soundstudio business.

But .. nobody here knows anybody in that business .. (*ducks*)

True, but most of the commercial graphic artist I work with ( clients or otherwise) have a mac for creative stuph and a pc for email/accounting/dealing with the world stuffffffffff

This is why I made the suggestion earlier about the new imacs. You get 2 for 1.Yes, you have to boot to the OS of choice, but a least it is on the same computer. The reviews I have seen indicate that running XP on a new imac is mondo faster than many of the top tier pcs at double + the cost. It is just an idea to consider :)

*revokes hop on pop and whip cream priveleges. AGAIN*

You know that final bit of info just made my pro-maciness fairly solid. However, its not concrete until they have 2 mouse buttons! lol

noah .. just use a black marking pen to divide the one button in half .. then pat yourself on the back at how creative you are .. since that seems to be a requirement for owning a MAC

Keifer, can I market this solution? We could make gillions :)

The mighty mouse that apple makes for the macs now, has a right click and left click, plus two side buttons and a built in scrolling ball.

rofl...good idea! When u make gillions donate 10000000 to caedes while your at it =)

Piner..i looked at the mighty mouse. It looks awsome with the touch sensitivity...

...but i cant use it when im laying in bed playing a game can I? Thats my single, only complaint about macs atm (thats "at the moment" not "atmospheres")

But do mighty mouses work on windows computers?

ih? I find two buttons and a scroll wheel to be perfectly adequate...failing that I can get a trackball. Can you imagine how annoying to use Mighty Mouse will be?

The Mighty Mouse is PC compatable, according to apple:
http://www.apple.com/mightymouse/

ok - here's the answer to your prayers - a gyroscopic air mouse that you can either use on a desk or just wave it around in the air NIntendo Wii stylee leaving your other hand free for your bedtime 'game' shenanigans - happy now! ;-)

Now THATS an ingenius invention! A mouse that senses movement with gyros! Im also working on the one handed typing skills so i can eat with the other hand when im also playing a game....i think im at 10 wpm =P (pretty slow)

funky...

Wierdo...while you are at it, I think there is a Dvorak keyboard with which you can type using only one hand.

I thought the dvorak keyboard was for 2 hands just that it was faster...hense why u could also type with 1 hand faster than using a qwerty.

Btw, dvorak has great music =P

I think there are the traditional, and one-handed layout, but enough about a keyboard nobody uses.

What is the sound of one hand typing?

Zen Buddhist Monk


wait wait t wait .. I got more

If a MAC user falls in the woods, and nobody saw him, her, it ... did him, her, it make a sound

Anon


thank you, thank you ... I'll be here all week

...how creative.

Here is a great reason to love a Mac:

Apple shows on their website a computer w/

-Dual-processors, which are dual-core, with a 1 MB L2 cache, and 2.5GHz
-Astounding 1.5GHz bus
-512MB of 533MHz DDR2 SDRAM (PC2-4200); supports up to 16GB
Linkage

I think the fact you created this thread on .. 666 .. went unoticed

i like mac a lot more than pcs cuz it can run any windows and mac os x but it has some down sides

PC all the way :D

Mine never freezes :)

mine doesn't freeze...

...it just overheats and shuts down. :)

I've never had my Mac overheat, but my PC is currently underclocked, because if it is put back to normal speed, it will quickly freeze.