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Discussion Board -> Desktop Wallpaper, Art, etc. -> Concern with Top Commenting concept

Concern with Top Commenting concept

::ladyprariefire
06/29/06 9:35 AM GMT
LET ME STATE THAT THIS FORUM IS NOT MEANT TO ATTACK OR BE AIMED AT ANY ONE PERSON. THIS IS MY GENERAL OPINION, I DON"T HAVE ANY ONE PERSON OR PERSONS IN MIND WHEN VOICING IT!! I've been really thinking about how hard it is to give a good well rounded critique to people's work. It takes a lot time for the average person to give that honestly. The top commentors chart isn't necissarily bad in itself, but I don't like the Caedes Cadre Prize concept for top commenting members. I'm not fond of the top commenters page in general because of the competition it creates. This, if anything should not be a contest and it doesn't encourage quality comments, but quantity comments. I've read through the idea this site has for giving a good review but I don't think most people know that the advice is there. Giving reviews are a challenge at the best of times, handling peoples art is handling peoples emotions too. Perhaps we can come up with something that gives people a wider tutorial or more up front information about reviewing (even a discussion forum that seasoned commentors visit to give advice to the weary). I think people are intimidated by the reviewing concept. Itwould be good to see people move in the helping each other direction and not just boosting each other with strictly positive comments. Positive comments make us feel the best, but don't encourage growth all the time. I guess I think the prize concept will move us farther away from that. I know it (prize idea) has not been put into action yet, so here I set my case before you. I would like to hear your ideas and opinions and especially what assembly members think. If this is the wrong place to address such a matter please some one let me know. To my best knowldege this is place to come.

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&KEIFER
06/29/06 10:03 AM GMT
This is the place to come .. and .. how to give a good critique is not a subject that has been "drug thru the mud", so to speak, but it's something most don't feel comfortable doing for several reasons. Maybe they don't feel qualified to point out weaknesses, maybe they don't see their comment as an opportunity to help a person see their own work through different eyes

I can only speak for myself .. I do not see every image posted here as needing critical review .. and will usually save that for when I receive a comment request generated by the site .. or .. a specific request by the artist .. because it is usually these images that need help .. and all I can offer is my opinion .. then I gain hours of amusement checking back to see everybody disagree with me and tell them "it's cool" .. maybe it is cool and it is "I" that am in need of fixing

As you stated .. the "prize" has not been awarded .. and probably never will be .. I think it was determined early on that if something can be "Gamed" it will be, by somebody .. this comment list was originally generated back around the time the first vote-rigging scheme was uncovered .. so we had all had our eyes opened to the depths others would go to bask in the limelight, though they be lemons at heart
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The Answer to Life, the Universe, and Everything = T42
::ladyprariefire
06/29/06 11:00 AM GMT
Ah, thank-you , I see. I'm glad you've come forward to make the point about giving a good critique is" Difficult". The points you've listed in why it could be intimidating are things I relate to myself.

I would like to state that I don't see myself as a fantastic commenter. I try my best, whatever that happens to look like. My beef is not so much with people who tend to good commenting only (though I mentioned it up top, is a smaller concern of mine right now compared to the competition aspect ). I am more concerned with the integrity in which we approach each others art.

I guess this competition for comments thing is really urking me. Giving good critiques is a good thing to learn but as you say Kieth, most people don't feel qualified, as I myself often don't. My apologies if I've come on to strong about Critiqing. I don't want to put people in a position where they feel guilty because they don't follow the book.

Really why I'm here is because I'm urked by the competition of the top comments page. I don't see it as a positive thing. Though it may have started out as a good idea to get people aware, it now may be making people TOO aware. We'd all perhaps get a little more aquainted with ourselves if we weren't constantly looking in the mirror to see how we rate. Quality not quanity, and if there is no prize to be had, then people should be told. Perhaps they may then go elsewhere on Caedes to find more positive avenues of artistic and community related confidence.
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SAY HELLO TO GINA GALLERY
&KEIFER
06/29/06 11:23 AM GMT
I took a look at the page for the first couple weeks it was there, but the second I slipped off the top ten I knew it had to be broken .. ;o) .. my understanding of it (and I could be wrong.. hah!) .. is that it just counts words, in the theory that a longer worded statement is saying more than "Cool Image" ..

Hopefully nobody will point out that I take up half a page and don't even manage to convey that mindless sentiment
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The Answer to Life, the Universe, and Everything = T42
::Hottrockin
06/29/06 11:27 AM GMT
Uhhh, I disagree Keith! I’ve only been here like what, 8 months and have already won a plethora of cash and prizes.

Only after about a week I received a nice Caedes coffee mug. After that the prizes just kept coming!!

A pair of really nice ivory bookends, these suckers must weigh about 45 pounds each!

I was really floored when the custom made baby grand was delivered. On the top was a beautifully jeweled Caedes spider logo, looks like Nathan’s handy work.

I’d say the best though was the all expense paid, long 4 day get-a-way to the Caedes Estates! Master Caedes sure knows how to party and have fun. From our early morning hikes to chillin’ by the pool all mid-day as well as our spirited late afternoon croquet matches. After dinner, we’d just sit in the gazebo having brandy and smoking Cuban cigars and just watch the fireflies.

You’ve been here a little while now and seem fairly popular with the girls, and guys for that matter, and you have yet to get a Caedes coffee mug? :~(
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::ladyprariefire
06/29/06 11:38 AM GMT
LOL, Kieth got a Caedes tattoo that he paid for himself. His dedication is unerring so he gave himself a prize. I heard he's making Caedes coffee mugs and generating a profit in his illegal trade. That's how he paid for the tattoo.

That being said: Please folks don't forget to read the top for why this forum is here.

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COME SAY HELLO TO GINA
::J_272004
06/29/06 12:21 AM GMT
Theres a comp for comments??? why wasnt I told.. lol.. seriously I have only been on that page a couple of times, agree with you about having prizes, its not fair on the people who are only on for a short time, to get to the top and knock out the ones who are there, you basically have to be here all day and comment on almost every new image... lol.. I noticed your addition to your first comment.. lol.. very well done, that saves you from those who think they are always targeted even though they are not..

Hey Randy you promised me that coffee mug.. you said you would share your prizes with me... i'm still standing at the mailbox waiting..
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MY GALLERY ........... "A sense of humour is as important to life as shock absorbers to a car.. It helps us over the bumps im life" / P.K. Shaw
.AmNeSiA
06/29/06 2:43 PM GMT
Im still a newbie he but I have found that after a short while you seem to get comfortable will some of the people on the site and if they / or myself have anything that we can see that might need changing or done a different way I find it easier to PM the person with that information and leave just a short note on the image page to let the person know that you have been there. So I don't know if that is the case for every one here but that is the way I view the situation. I enjoy viewing and commenting on peoples work..

Jacquline I hope you got the long john on tonight its cold down here tonight, i can tell you.

Jason
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Suicide is man's way of tell God "YOU CAN'T FIRE ME I QUIT."
::kodo34
06/29/06 3:58 PM GMT
I agree that it shouldn't be a compitition . But i does help the community sence and encourages newcommers (and oldtimers ) to keep posting.
I don't give that many comments due to lack of time , but i don't think that if you give honest critique it should be in a PM , others can benifit from the critique aswell.
And i myself am guilty from time to time of the WAW commment , simply becuase i find the image striking and don't see anything wrong with it but want to express my admiration for the image .
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"Whenever you find yourself on the side of the majority, it is time to pause and reflect." my images
::mimi
06/29/06 4:55 PM GMT
I think how you comment depends on why one is here. When I joined, I barely knew a thing about photography..it was strictly "point & shoot" and then I wasn't always sure what I was shooting :=). After joining here, I decided I wanted to "run with the big dogs" as it is said, so I began watching the comments and seeing what made a photo above par or what didn't. I only learned that through the comments that I read, so by being afraid to say anything, well, I learned nothing!
Anyone can take what they need from my comments and just leave the rest alone.

I decided that if I wanted to be a member (to me membership means doing something), I started learning "how to comment".( Please, I know that art is interpretative, so I don't need that regurgitated), but I have learned that I can make a difference to maybe one person and that a whole lot of people make a difference to me.

I am here to learn, not get my ego stroked by any comments or other values. I comment because I want to so I can keep learning. This site has opened a whole plethora of possibilities to me that otherwise, I would have never known. I even bought a new camera through learning what worked and what didn't work via comments :)

So since there is no prize associated, why is it so important? Now we have a 'most active members' page......why? This is another way to encourage members to become .....well.......members! Why I am in this community isn't about a stats page ...it is about my images and how they are received by my peers and what else new I can learn new today.

Thanks everyone. All comments/critiques are welcomed with open arms on any of my images!
The gifts I receive from caedes.net are intangible, yet valued deeply by me :~)
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~mimi~
::smoosh
06/29/06 5:59 PM GMT
Holy cow... I never even knew that page existed, nor that I was on it! I agree that commenting shouldn't be about competition, but rather, honest feedback.

While I am not a professional critic, art historian or equally "qualified" candidate for remarks... I have always been *honest* and *tactful* about sharing comments. I am definitely qualified to give MY opinion... as are we all, individually. I love that about this community! There is so much talent here, and folks that make the effort to share their work deserve to have it reviewed, appreciated, mulled over, etc.

I hope that in my giving of feedback, I have in no way hurt anyone's feelings or came across as overly critical. I don't think I have, because again... my words are never spoken with malice.

As for "prizes" for top commentators... let me just say I like purple fuzzy things that smell good. ;)

Thanks for starting this thread ladyprairiefire!
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"The promise of tomorrow is not a guarantee, so I shall live for today and live for me." -- Smoosh. Please feel free to visit my Gallery. Your feedback and critiques are always greatly appreciated.
.animaniactoo
06/29/06 6:05 PM GMT
Everybody has an opinion no matter how versed you are in art or not. Because art is subjective, every viewpoint is valid, and I agree w/Mimi & Kristoff. By NOT posting whatever portions of the critique you consider negative, you rob others of the chance to see and possibly learn from your viewpoint.

Tis also true however that some people are highly offended by others not seeing their vision etc, so does anybody else think that the option to select a critique level on the upload page would be a good idea? Something along the lines of:

• Be gentle with me
• I can take it!
• Do your worst
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SOLIDARITY - THE FIESTY TAVERN WENCHES!
&kjh000
06/29/06 6:32 PM GMT
• You are allowed to boost my ego.
• Only nice comments
• Give me criticism but only friendly
• Say it's super or get lost
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.hernoor
06/29/06 6:42 PM GMT
I like that idea Cat and Klas - there are a few who don't appreciate getting an honest critique.

Also, I've had a few PMs from a member who was upset because I pointed out something I wasn't fond of in another member's image. Apparently this member liked the image - to paraphrase "professionally the image is perfect and your critique was being arrogant and it was sophomoric crap"

I know the above doesn't really have much to do with the topic, but that's what happened when I was pointing out something I didn't like.

Back to the topic, when I first saw the Top Commenting page, I was also a bit doubtful about the competition. Then when I read some of the old news articles and found out it was based on length of comments only, I felt the same way Amaris felt about it. But I must admit that I got myself ready for a craze in critiquing. I tried to comment on every image in the New Images, and got myself a good way up on the list just by being wordy in my posts. I made it to the top 10 at one point, but then I sort of lost interest in the list. Now I try not to be all verbose but I do give my honest opinion. My comments are now like 1 or 2 lines long and I basically comment only on my friend's images, the Request for Comment section, and when I get comment requests, although I occasionally visit the New Images gallery.
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Live like there was no tomorrow | When you put your mind to it, you can accomplish anything - Doc Brown | My Gallery
&kjh000
06/29/06 7:45 PM GMT
Thanks Noor for not misunderstanding me. I'm sorry I don't have time to maka proper input to this. I strongly feel like Cat said in the first part of her post and as for the rest of it I think it's a good idea to have the artist mark their "interest" (or not) in getting (honest) feedback.
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::smoosh
06/29/06 8:41 PM GMT
I think as artists, creators, hobbyists, etc. it's always important to practice a bit of detachment when it comes to critiques. Remember, it's just one person's opinion, and not necessarily fact.

If you are easily bothered by feedback that may not be interpreted as positive, then a system like Cat suggested may work well here. But as long as you have the ability to post comments, even in lieu of wanting feedback, someone - somewhere - somehow may still post something that's not taken well.

It's hard to interpret tone of a message without visual cues, body language and the like. Just remember that any critiques you receive, 99% of the time, are about the art itself and not the person or their ability. Hope that makes sense! :)
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"The promise of tomorrow is not a guarantee, so I shall live for today and live for me." -- Smoosh. Please feel free to visit my Gallery. Your feedback and critiques are always greatly appreciated.
::ladyprariefire
06/29/06 10:37 PM GMT
Well the gears are moving and people ar putting out great ideas. I appreciate all of your input and I think Cat's idea is very good. The way I usually comment is going through the the voting booth and then commenting on the photos I've seen. Sometimes my heart goes out to new artists (I check out their bio page) that I know a critique other than positive will make them feel defeated, when they were a few hours earlier so eager to share. People TAKE IT VERY PERSONAL even if wisdom says they shouldn't, it's our pearls and we are so afraid to throw them for all to see. Being wise and sensitive about this is a dance over a fine line. So Cat's idea would work some of that out. Being a good artist is a personal graduation and as people feel more confident to step out they will choose the next level themselves. These choices by Cat seen here are good examples for sure!!

• Be gentle with me
• I can take it!
• Do your worst

And now secondly addressing how people see the top comments page, remember that this is just my opinion, I'm not out to destroy it. If people get good things from it, like Kodo suggested then I will not look to be the folly of your good thing. I just am gritting my teeth at the competition aspect. I will ponder on this further, I'll write something regarding it when I can think more about it.

Thanx everyone..................your all very encouraging and have much wisdom to offer
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COME SAY HELLO TO GINA
::muggsy
06/30/06 12:36 AM GMT
I only stumbled on that Top Comment page a day or two ago. Read about the prize concept and just like Amaris thought it was bad idea from the get-go. For the very reasons she outlined so well. Then I glanced down and found myself in the top 10 ... ??? Said to myself, "Just my luck" ... I just got done paying for 6 months membership and NOW they tell me I might get a freebie membership.

My point for sticking my nose into this thread is ... I may be a prolific commentor but far from a "Qualified" or "By The Book" commentor. NO WAY! Prolific because as has been mentioned, I am retired and can spend a good deal of time on the site. I'm somewhat of a windbag ... ergo your comment length.

I'm one of those intimidated as to criticizing anyones artwork or photography. Feel I can accept criticism ... but can't dish it out. Perhaps that stems from being born and brought up under the old adage "If you can't say something nice about someone ... don't say anything at all". So I go out of my way to view and comment only on images that appeal to me. Should I find anything unappealing I simply make no comment. Makes life easy for me, but does abosolutely nothing to improve others work or for that matter improve my own skill as a reviewer. I hope to change that over time ... ain't gonna be easy. To sum up ... Contest ... BAD ! However if it happens anyway ... Do I have to report it on my Tax Return next year ?
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Just an old "Grampa" who still has a Kodak "Box" camera kicking around the attic ... learning and enjoying the wonders of modern digital photography.
::ladyprariefire
06/30/06 1:27 AM GMT
Let me say the I am certainly not coming against and Caedes Art and Photo contests. I don't want to be misunderstood on this. I enjoy these immensely and I see them as benefical to our artistic community and a great way for the community to get to know each other. Experienced artists can come to meet some of the new and other community members who may need some assistance and encouragement. It has been the stepping stone for me in many areas of my work. This sort of competition helps us push our artistic gifts to a new level, and get more in touch with our community. Good stuff I tell ya!!........No entry is bad, it's a beggining for some of us to learn new things and for some of us to excel, laying the path for all interested eventually to excel too. That is what I call good Competiton.
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COME SAY HELLO TO GINA
.animaniactoo
06/30/06 1:59 AM GMT
I'd like to clarify something btw… That "Be gentle with me" option should not be a request for no criticisms, just a request that they not be overdone and phrased as utterly politely as possible. This site is a community and one of the best parts of it is the opportunity to interact and learn from each other. We have to be open and willing to hear constructive criticism for that to continue to work.

If someone absolutely positively cannot take any other comments than "nice job" and "fantastic", this is probably not the place for them. My 2 cents there. 8•)

If that top commentators page is based on length of comments? Well… I could write a book and say nothing of value whatsoever! 8•P
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SOLIDARITY - THE FIESTY TAVERN WENCHES!
::ladyprariefire
06/30/06 2:26 AM GMT
Yha, how do they measure the "qualifying comment" concept. Is it just length of words? I suspected such things.............oooooo hmmmmmm frustration bubbling. Taking deep breath..............hoping this is not the case.
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COME SAY HELLO TO GINA
::mimi
06/30/06 5:53 AM GMT
I agree with Cat in that if someone does not want to learn anything about art, there are many sites that one can go join and all you will get is wow's. I have stated before that I have not been 'unfaithful' since I found this site. It has everything I need. If critique is needed and not given then I feel like I am being cheated.
As for stroking the newcomers, I give honest, gentle feedback. Many have PM'd me and thanked me for the help. They said they knew it was wrong, but had no idea how to 'fix' the problem. In 2 1/2 years that I have been here, I have only had one person send me a PM that said there was nothing wrong with their image. I respectfully honored that request but did not edit my comment. Please note that I was the *only* user that even stopped and commented on the image because it was so poorly done. All I did was hopefully plant a seed for that artist for the future.
I remember when I challenged a mod because they "critiqued" a piece of my work as a newcomer and I was so angered at that critique. They still stood solid and firm & explained to me why they said what they did. Today, what they pointed out is something that I am acutely aware of in other's images as well as my own ......I didn't get angry and pull my gallery or quit posting or start lurking anonymously or go somewhere else. I was determined to get it right somehow. Please don't sugar coat anything for me, if it is good, the "WOW" is good, if it needs improvement, please help me improve.

Oh, and I don't give any thought as to how this site works, what I do care about is that it does work and anyone can use it for absolutely free. Now that is a bargain that we cannot beat anywhere. :~)
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~mimi~
&KEIFER
06/30/06 8:45 AM GMT
just for grins and giggles .. the originating forum topic when the list was introduced

An idea to encourage good comments .. 08/24/05 ..

I think it's important to point out that there is NO competition at this time .. It may have been suggested at the beginning, but there have been NO awards and I think most people forgot about the list .. the people you find at the top get there naturally .. they are just gabby people .. ;o) .. they wander door to door looking to borrow a cup of sugar and perhaps share some of the sugar they got a few doors up the street
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The Answer to Life, the Universe, and Everything = T42
::ladyprariefire
06/30/06 9:04 AM GMT
I don't disagree. At the sametime I think people 'are' aware of the comments page, not nessarily all negatively but the element is still there. Being chatty and encouraging is how some people are, myself included. Hey, as long as it isn't working against us, good. The prize thing, that is why I started this forum, it gives the page a competition feel. Again encouraging Quanity not Quality comments. I also wanted people to come out of the wood work and come up with some good ideas for helping us learn to comment constructively. The top comment page is there to stay I'm sure, but if it's aim is to generate "qualifying comments" it may dissapoint. My thought again, Get Rid Of the Prize concept and think of some more consructive ways to encourage "qualifying comments". I'm sure we can work something out, and if not, I've said my piece, come what may. (I'm repeating myself I know, but I want to keep up with people and have updated conversation about this, so my apologies for those who have heard my pitch for the 3rd or 4th time LOL)
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COME SAY HELLO TO GINA
::ladyprariefire
06/30/06 9:51 AM GMT
Man, I'm sounding a little too self righteous. Here is me taking a chill pill. This site is very important to me, it's a big part of my artistic life. And I thank *Cades for putting it together and everyone who keep the gears turning. I'm zealous for this place to grow and be an artistic haven which it successfully is and hopefully we will continue to be inspired and put ourselves out there and keep it growing (I don't mean in size).
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COME SAY HELLO TO GINA
.LynEve
06/30/06 12:00 AM GMT
Please folks - do not be too disparaging of those who do not give in depth comments. This can be through lack of time and more often, lack of knowledge.In my own case it is both. I welcome and enjoy all and every comment I receive for my images, whether they be one or two words, or a throughtful and in depth review with suggestions for improvements. This is a wonderful way to learn, especially as there are so many talented and knowledgeable members willing to help.
My own knowledge of art and photography is extremely limited and apart from 'I think the border would have been better in yellow' type of thing do not feel qualified or confident enough to offer advice. However, I hope that others feel as I do, and appreciate the fact that someone has taken the time to look at an image and say a few words, however brief. I agree wholeheartedly that the Top Commenters Page should not be a contest.
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Keep your face to the sunshine and you can not see the shadows. It's what sunflowers do - Helen Keller
::ladyprariefire
06/30/06 1:23 PM GMT
Any comments matter, big or small. If it's honest and meaningful to you than it's valid. My concern Lyn is that we don't try to gain by running around Caedes leaving quick comments on every picture people see so they can make it into the top ten. No one please get the impression that I cracking down on how people comment, my argument is about why people comment. Having a way for people to learn to give more critiqing reviews is good, but not nessicary or even practical for everyone. It would just be good if some options were present for those interested. And as you say your knowledge is limited, but hanging around Caedes will be the place to gain it. I knew hardly anything about this stuff when I came here three years ago, but I've learned plenty from just hangin around. It just happens.
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COME SAY HELLO TO GINA
::muggsy
06/30/06 2:31 PM GMT
ladyprariefire you are NOT being self righteous. I'm getting a sincere attempt on your part to improve the website. I'm in complete agreement with you, that making any sort of "contest" regarding comments is NOT a good idea. Commenting is very subjective. As I tried to explain above I'm in the top 10 at the moment but without real merit. I'm there for the wrong reasons. You've brought up a valid issue and I'm sure the members that run Caedes will weigh the pitfalls mentioned here against benefits ... if any ... of going ahead with the idea.

KEIFER has a thread "A satiric view of critiquing photos online" which is pertinent to this thread in as much as it deals with satirical comments critical of well know photographers. I found it humorous and enjoyable, but it only reinforced my reluctance to be critical of someones images. I don't want to seem pompous with my criticism nor in a worst case scenario, do I wish to expose my ignorance on-line ... I do that well enough off-line.

You have done a service with this thread ... made your point sincerely and well in my opinion AND ... I for one Thank You!
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Just an old "Grampa" who still has a Kodak "Box" camera kicking around the attic ... learning and enjoying the wonders of modern digital photography.
::smoosh
06/30/06 3:07 PM GMT
Hey Keifer... who you callin' gabby??? ;)

As for me, I usually do click on the new images thread and try to comment on as many, if not all, of the new pictures I see. That challenges me in a positive way... for I'm introduced to creations that don't always appeal to me, but are certainly still deserving of viewing and feedback.

I have racked up a number of comments in my short time here... not due to desire for some sort of ranking or competition with others, but rather because I love communicating. I'm a freelance writer, so I may tend to be wordier than others. But everyone whom I've encountered thus far have been very sincere, and appreciative for the remarks. It has been my pleasure... really... to immerse myself in such a creative circle which was immediately welcoming to the "newbie gabber".

I too agree with Cat... there are several places to showcase your art and self promote, with little opportunity for constructive feedback and plenty of "attaboys". Those might be better for the thinner skinned artists.

You guys/gals are a great bunch! This is a super discussion.
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"The promise of tomorrow is not a guarantee, so I shall live for today and live for me." -- Smoosh. Please feel free to visit my Gallery. Your feedback and critiques are always greatly appreciated.
::ladyprariefire
07/01/06 8:16 AM GMT
Your time here then smoosh is a great example of what Caedes is about. You've made a great contibution in the short time you've been around. And the fact that you comment on photos that you never would otherwise is very cool and I try and do that too. I've learned about all sorts of art that is new to me.

If this forum never kick starts anything more in the manner of Folks coming up with new ideas and sharing thier views, then at least we've talked about some important issues and people have been fantastically honest and supportive of each other. Bravo!!
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WATCH OU FOR THE BOOGIE MAN ************** AND VOICE YOUR OPINION AT MY DISCUSSION TOPIC
::ladyprariefire
07/02/06 2:42 AM GMT


There are two discussions already surrounding the topic of encouraging good image reviews. Kiefer has created two links and can be foud above. This topic has alredy been addressed by many members who have concerns in this area. I have been PM'ed by a few members since this Thread here was addressed by me and feel a little different about my original opinion. In their Pm's people have told me of there wants and needs to improve in this area and asserted themselves to say they felt their comments honest even though they appear in the Top ten. So my original idea of the competive nature of the Top Comments page has mostly abated. I'll be honest in saying that I still am concerened to a small degree, but I have an idea that may help. I would like to encourage people who would like to learn about better commenting to ask people who do well at it to give them some tips. As far as the prize concern, though it still bothers me, I am willing to let it go. If a member of the Assembly would care to address this I would be happy to here about what they think and some changes they could possibly come about regarding the prize issue. Thanx.................Amaris
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WATCH OU FOR THE BOOGIE MAN ************** AND VOICE YOUR OPINION AT MY DISCUSSION TOPIC
&KEIFER
07/02/06 8:08 AM GMT
I think the only thing that needs to be changed concerning the 'prize' issue is that the wording be removed from the original text .. it may have been a valid offer initially but, after the first day of debate, I would say it became a non issue ..

I know that the people who comment on everything or close to it are a blessing to this site, and that without their efforts alot of artists would go without feedback for their work .. and without feedback or acknowledgement for one's efforts, what's the point in continuing ... blessed are the comment makers
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The Answer to Life, the Universe, and Everything = T42
::ladyprariefire
07/02/06 9:19 AM GMT
Thanx K, for putting me straight........I hope I have not offended you *Caedes by dissing your idea.........my concerns were well intentioned but perhaps my delivery offensive. Thanx again to all who have been honest with me and helped me understand. I feel like I've met some new people around here just from the communication we've had due to this thread. And now,here I go to the elephant graveyard............
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WATCH OU FOR THE BOOGIE MAN ************** AND VOICE YOUR OPINION AT MY DISCUSSION TOPIC
::madmaven
07/05/06 3:31 PM GMT
I have had my feathers ruffled a few times when people imply that the ones of us who comment on almost everything....or wear our keyboards out trying..."ARE NOT QUALITY OR SINCERE in the comments we leave. I have heard a few say they only leave QUALITY comments and for only those deserving....{ GAK!}
I just shudder at the snobbishness. I might see a work by somebody just starting out/testing the waters, and maybe if I applied a perfectionists eye...I might pick out dozens of things NEGATIVE to critique. But I focus on what I like...and there are times I do run short on words...or maybe see what I might have said was said already by those commenting before me...but I think that caring enough to leave a comment IS an encouragment for some. I feel heart-sick when I see an artist who gets almost NO comments at all...{ maybe new/ not any friends/ or chosen as not good enough to get comments from the "PROS"}. I will continue to comment as often as possible....and I am
not in need of money or status whatsoever.....and typing HURTS my hands coz I have Kienbock's disease, but I will type till the hands stop working....and all coz I like being nice to people, and coz I have much to learn and appreciate the help and tips that have
improved my work, AND coz no matter how good I may ever get, I will not get so full of myself that I take and never give back.
Amaris: I KNOW you did not mean anything by what you said...so this is not a defensive reaction toward you. :) Hugs, MADMAVEN
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TODAY's SPECIAL: Please visit this newbie's gallery and say hello! Wim
::muggsy
07/05/06 4:57 PM GMT
Gotta Luv Ya Teri ... Gotta Luv Ya ...
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Just an old "Grampa" who still has a Kodak "Box" camera kicking around the attic ... learning and enjoying the wonders of modern digital photography.
::smoosh
07/05/06 5:37 PM GMT
Giving critiques certainly requires delicate handling... because as creators, we give birth to our work and are usually tightly connected to it. Again, just stressing to anyone whom I've posted remarks to (or shall in the future)... I'm a good natured, laid back and honest individual. I would *never* post something with the intent to cause hurt feelings, pain, anger, etc., and apologize in advance if any of my posts have done this.

I received one PM in particular today that disturbed me a bit, only because the recipient of my feedback truly took offense to something that was intended as lighthearted in nature.

It's so easy to misinterpret "text". So please... err on the side of good cheer... if something really appears to be a malicious dig, please take a step back and realize that it's one person's opinion. Probably not worthy of your time or energy spent feeling frustrated over. Practice detachment... on the Internet, that is a key skill to learn.

Best to all,
Smoosh
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"The promise of tomorrow is not a guarantee, so I shall live for today and live for me." -- Smoosh. Please feel free to visit my Gallery. Your feedback and critiques are always greatly appreciated.
::ladyprariefire
07/05/06 9:50 PM GMT
Terri, thanx for saving this thread from the elephant graveyard. Don't worry, I don't take it personal, I know you weren't "after me" (I got your PM, thanx). This sort of out spokeness is what I expected when I started this thread. I came prepared so to speak. So you laid it on the line, and that was what I wanted. I'll admit I was afraid I might be causing myself some unpopularity when I started this, but instead I walked out with new friends (I must have some good karma hidden in a place I forgot about, probably in the pocket of those jeans I gave to the Salvation Army). If I was to start taking offense here I would be shooting myself in the foot. It wouldn't be wise to start a storm and then be offended at someone accusing you of starting it. Anyway, again thanx, honesty is not always the best policy, but here, that was what I wanted, and I sure got it. Terri I sincerely appreciate your role here at Caedes. Your like the Caedes angel, you go around making everyone feel welcome and warm and a part of things. You are a blessing to our community, don't let anyone tell you different. I hope people took as much from this thread as I did. I got a little education, a spanking and a bunch of new friends. Karma, I tell ya.
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Come Frolic in the FLORA &FAUNA CHECK OUT MY DAD'S GALLERY
.LynEve
07/05/06 10:33 PM GMT
Although I have already said here what I think I just want to leap in again and say that comments can make the difference between giving up and carrying on. It does not matter how brief they are. A recent image of mine has had 7 votes and has a C-Index rating of 7 - OMG 7 !!! if it were not for the generous and encouraging comments on it I would be in despair. As it is I am totally mortified. 7 !!! I just wish those who have voted it so low would leave a comment as to how it could be improved, why it is so bad. Maybe silence speaks louder than words and I should take the hint and steer clear of fractals. I knew I had no talent with them but a 7 !! Delete button here I come.
Having got that off my chest I just want to reiterate what I said in my earlier post and also say this has been a very interesting thread.I think it is very sad if people take constructive criticism personally, how else can we learn.
As Keifer said earler - blessed are the commenters.

Eve
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Keep your face to the sunshine and you can not see the shadows. It's what sunflowers do - Helen Keller

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