---> I received this email from a dear friend of mine from HS (we recently re-connected), and was really pissed that she would think that I would respond favorably to this sort of bigotry!!

**email received**
If you are a parent or know a parent of a school-aged child attending public schools, read this article!!! It's a little long but well worth the read! There are people trying to put policy in place to require teachers to teach the acceptance and respect of homosexuality and same sex marriage to our children. Please read the article and send an email to the this organization expressing your opinion. Our children's future are at risk and it's our job as parents to protect them and be informed of what decisions are being made concerning them!

Also, parents, if you've never prayed for your children before it's never too late to start now! For those of you who do pray, keep praying and start praying specifically against the spirits of perversion, control, homosexuality and defiance. We can stop this before it starts if we ban together in prayer and tear down the stronghold of the enemy!

God bless you and your children!

---> I have many friends of different races, religious beliefs, and sexual preferences. I have taught my kids to embrace diversity and not judge people based on race or religion or sexual preference.
This is how I responded to my friend:

Sorry Sheila, this is one I couldn't pass on (nor could I send a disapproving email), as I believe in embracing diversity. 80% of my friends are in same sex relationships, and I cannot find it in myself to pass this one on without betraying myself and my friends. I have taught my kids not to pass judgements on people no matter what their race or sexual preference is, and don't feel that teaching these values is opening them to any perversions or creating homosexual kids. I hope you can understand my position, and that this doesn't put a wedge in our newly rekindled friendship.

---> I'm not sure what to do, I am really pissed about this. Advice??? Discussion??? A good bitch session anyone???

hmmm, well that last paragraph sounds like as good a place as any to start. in fact, i wouldnt change a word. try looking through the world through her eyes for a second, and see that she doesnt think she's offending anyone, including you. so seeing that she's a friend, perhaps an argumentative tone wouldnt be called for.

i know how you feel, having had to fend off racist comments both blatant and subtle while being in a racially mixed marriage. and while i'm no longer in that relationship, it doesnt make it ok for me to tolerate ignorance, and neither should you.

good luck

i don't think that's a nice thing. i have friends of all types also, and all this crap is always putting them down :(

good reply though!!

as for the advice, i'm not sure what you're asking. how to talk to your friend about this??

if so. i say introducing her to some of your friends and not telling her anything about them, she'd prolly end up liking them. idk if that's good advice, i'm not good w/these things though :(

What kind of world are we living in where people are allowed to teach accpetance and respect to children??? What's next - tolerance?!?

Well, as long as all they are going to do is pray, I'm not too worried. Lobbying is more of a concern to me. I don't know what to say except that you are more tolerant than me, I don't think I could consider anyone who sent me something like that a friend any more... I guess it's different when you know them though. I think Andrew is right, maybe if she actually got to know some of your friends she might think about changing her attitude...

YAY i gave advice sum1 can agree on. although it's the sneaky kind *highfives sam*

*leaves*

lol xD

I give you a lot of credit Jenn, you stated your position clearly & without rancor or anger. Nor did you put Sheila on the spot or the defensive. Well done. I can't think of a single other thing to say to her ...ya dun gud hon !

Politelty telling another that bigotry sucks does not get through; telling that person to stop it or there will be no more relating does work. I have found it stirs things up so the two can have a real discussion.If it cannot be resolved so both benefit, well.why wold i want to continue with the bigot?

Well, Jenn... I think you have handled that quite well so far. I don't think I would have been quite that forgiving. Just seeing that this kind of thing still exists with such religious fervent (I tried to avoid using the "R" word, but couldn't find an alternative) really does bake my cheese. SO, before I go off on a total rant... you're a better person than I for how ya handled it. :o)

Keep us posted.

Precious!!!

This one is a touchy subject. My husband and I have a couple of friends that go way back and they are full throttle that way. They are very kind and well intentioned people who have been taught inhumane propaganda in there childhoods and in there communities. We have had to be upfront with them. It is everywhere. We who stand for equality and human rights are the minority (though we are growing). For people to learn differently it sometimes takes introducing them (as Andrew said) to your community (friends). If they rudely refuse to be open minded with your friends than I would say you've probably grown past them anyway. I have no patience for close mindedness, but I still love people and see giving them a chance as having value too. Do not feel guilty if you have to release this person from your life, it is sometimes necessicary for your sanity and peace and good for them to realize that they have made choices which shut people out, instead of welcoming people in which their Christ himself teaches. And definetly send the reply you have above to her in email !! See how she replies, then go from there.

Sadly....nothing any of us can say or do will change the way bigots/racists think.
I come from racist parents....and recall getting BEAT...very badly, for playing in a parking lot { I was 7} and inviting a little black girl who was watching {from a parked car} to play with us { kickball}. I will never forget the little girl's eyes and her crying FOR US { my sister and I} when my father was beating the crap out of us. His lesson in bigotry did NOTHING to formulate me. In fact..if at all...it set in stone that I will love people for who they are inside....

Honestly, I can't believe homosexuality is acceptable, in any form, due to the explicit prohibition written in the bible. I agree with the original author of the e-mail. Acceptance of wrong is NOT going in the right direction.

timmy. stay out of these >_>
we kinda already kno what ur gonna say >_>

This isn't a disscussion if their aren't dissenting opinions. Besides, obviously no one else seems to realize the WRONGNESS of homesexuality.

timmy >_>
personally. idk what a guy might see in a guy lol. but i have no problem w/it. or same w/the girls. if they like the same gender so what. who cares. what's the big deal???

i just think that you just haven't been exposed to anyone who was, to see that they're no dif from anyone who's straight.

However Tim… this country is founded on the belief that everyone has religious freedom… AND that there is a separation of church and state.

The fact that your religion states that Homosexuality is wrong does not mean that mine does. In my eyes, there is absolutely nothing wrong w/2 people of whatever genders loving each other.

Being free from prejudice is the best gift you can give your children… apart from you know… how to survive in the world. lol

Jen, what you wrote was well written, and I would say, I wouldn't "sneak" the meeting of your friends on this woman, but would ask her if she was open to meeting your friends, and evaluating how they lives their lives w/her own eyes… and if she could go into doing that w/out being automatically judgemental about it. Also ask her what the basis for her beliefs is… and see where the convo takes you from there. I'm sure you have many strong arguments on your side, and it would be great if you could present them to her for her edification.

I have friends or more likely acquaintances who have views I don't agree with… some things I stand firm on… if you use racist slurs in front of me, and disregard my views on this, the friendship we have will end immediately. Some have come around to my viewpoints, and this is always what I hope to accomplish… that my influence will cause someone to rethink their views and be a better person for it. Sometimes I'm the one who's influenced to see something in a different light… that's what social relationships are about, right? 8•)

well said cat :)

Well, she and I were really tight in HS, and back then, had gay friends. Now fast forward 18 years, and it is in many ways like time stood still. We re-connected through emails then by phone (she lives in Arkansas). Now the irony (to me) is that she's a black woman in Arkansas dating a very white man, and daily having to deal with racism and bigotry...yet having had dearfriends who were gay, and having to face her own racism, she sends me this. There was a link to a website where I was supposed to sign a petition email, and state my beliefs. I did not sign the petition, but I most certainly stated my beliefs, and left it at the website.

Sheila is an awesome person, its just that apparently, we don't jive in this one area...and for me, if we can't agree to disagree, I cannot budge, and will have to tell her thanks for the HS memories.

My best friend was bi, and always found more happiness when in a relationship with a woman than when with a man. She desperately wanted kids, but she had ovarian cysts, and was in a same sex relationship. She eventually went into a deep depression of which (for her there was no out), and committed suicide. 3 years later, I still march in the SFO Parade in her honor. Yes, many people think it is somehow evil if you are gay, but in all my friends, I only see love and happiness. Why should they be denied, and why should kids, theirs, mine, any kids be taught intolerance against them?

So I guess, my next question is how do I explain my position to Sheila, better than I did in that email? I hope that she and I can get past this, as it has been so much fun talking with her again after all these years.

Tim, what I think you failed to realize is that the author of this thread is seeking advice. I also think you failed to grasp her position on the matter. so do you really suppose that this is the proper thread for getting up on a soapbox and preaching your opinion to someone who's already stated quite clearly that that opinion offends her?

So I'm left wondering, why say anything? Self importance? Lack of self control? Absence of manners? I'll say what perhaps the others in here are too civilized and polite to ( but i admire their restraint). Boorish and bullying behavior aren't an acceptable substitute for being right.

thank you dixie for illustrating my point in the most droll way possible....

Jenn, given what else you've said, I'd ask her what's happened to change her views so drastically... pointing out the previous agreement (or so you thought) of viewpoint, and tell her that you'd like to discuss it with her further. Tell her that you feel really strongly about this, and give her the option to want to talk about it. If she's unwilling to, then it'll be unfortunate, but you'll have your answer.

Otherwise I think you've stated your position pretty clearly and you'll have to wait for her to respond to it.

Hope it all works out well woman! Pardon me… I mean FIESTY TAVERN SMURF! 8•)

O.o

I can just feel the love...

Jenn – I would tell your friend the same as I would tell you all now, Hate Crime laws exist on both a national and international levels that prohibit the dissemination of material in any media that promotes hate and intolerance to groups of society based on their race, religion, sexuality etc. As such, when anyone sends mails or participates in forums such as this they should be mindful that they may be violating these laws and exposing both themselves and the website owners to litigation. Spouting the right to freedom of speech is all well and good so long as it complies with statute.

As an addition, I’m quite sure that the Caedes.net COC would also prohibit such inflammatory posts for the same reasons. To surmise all that….tread very carefully. Indeed.

Who am I bullying ThirdEye? Have I mentioned any names?
I hate homosexuality. I don't sugar-coat things. I don't hate people who are homosexual, but I completely disagree with their BEHAVIOR.

Honestly, I think the author of this thread's friend committed suicide because this society of evolutionary JUNK doesn't want to be accountable to the creator of the universe, and thus they FEEL as though they don't have ANY reason to live.

Child.... damn do you have a LOT to learn of the world.

what? are you a complete idiot? did I just type out that advisory guideline for you all for nothing? grow up for goodness sake!

tsk tsk tsk....so young...so dense....and dare i say...rude

Fine. Insult me as you must, but this topic doesn't seem to go away, and I will never agree with it. Phil, since when can the government control spam, let alone the internet?

Tim, how could you, a supposedly christian person, belittle another person's loss like that? By saying they didn't have any reason to live? You do realise, it is that kind of small-minded thinking is what tolerance and acceptance stands against.

I wasn't trying to be insulting, but I was stating that usually a person who commits suicide feels that they have no reason to live.

the government has no interest in spam but if you think they dont or can't monitor the net then your living in a fools world - hell, the net was originally developed as a military communication tool.

The government has enough to do to worry about monitoring the internet in the method you described.

you keep telling yourself that - in the meantime please abide by the sites coc and any other aplicable law pertaining to hate crime.

Tim, I know this particular entry is going straight into the hall of shame, but I haveto say it::
FUCK YOU!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
I quote:
Honestly, I think the author of this thread's friend committed suicide because this society of evolutionary JUNK doesn't want to be accountable to the creator of the universe, and thus they don't have ANY reason to live.

My best friend had EVERY right to live as everyone else except maybe right now--YOU. She was in a deep depression because she couldn't have kids which she wanted very badly...due to cysts on her ovaries, her being in a gay relationship only served to depress her more, not by being gay, but by not being able to conceive and her girlfriend was not willing to try to conceive. I have missed her every single day for 3 years now. My kids miss their auntie (which she was). How fucking dare you!!! Whatever bible you are reading from is shit. The God I know will not condemn anyone or not allow them the right tolive simply based on their sexual preferences.

in fairness, if Jenn gets hammered for her comments, so should her instigator

it better not get shamed!!! timmy's comment should be.

I second that... As well as agree with Jenn, it needed to be said.

Tim, I have never judged you, until today, right now. If I could climb through my pc screen and choke the crap outof you, I would. And to try to backpeddle and say you meant that their lifestyle...no you said exactly what you'd meant. You think gays should die. That is the sort of intolerance and bigotry that is making today's world complete crap. Gays have every right to life as do Blacks, or Mentally Challenged, or Muslims, or anyone else who has felt the sting of bigotry.

Discussions only contain profanity if the word "discussion" needs to be in quotes.

BOOM! Shot down with the elephant gun.