A note on nominating images for promotion;

In my personal and humble opinion ... diversity ... is a factor that is not currently being given enough consideration.

I don't feel/think that having several images of essentially the same setting with a slight shift in camera angle or something akin to that ... is of benefit to the site.

One image would suffice.

Then, if so inclined the visitor/member could go the artist's galleries and investigate more.


It has been mentioned in prior discussions that some don't see any difference in the quality of imagery being promoted by the Art Council, compared to the time when the main galleries were solely curated by the image moderators.

I respectfully ... disagree. (On the note of diversity, particularly.)

If one delves into the subcategories of the main galleries, the situation is revealed much more clearly. As opposed to simply looking at the main galleries sorted randomly. Compared to how they sit today, sorted by date.

So..

Considering an image for promotion?

Have a look see at the state of the current sub-gallery that is under consideration prior to pushing that button would be my recommendation.

I personally agree on your note Les, but we should also consider a bunch of factors which may drive to propose an image for being nominated as permanent:
- the feeling the images gives (which is not technical related, while is obviously that the image should be correctly managed)
- the high level technique of the image itself, which in this case is more related to the pure ability of the artist.
- great post work process
- comparison with the past works may given an indicator for promoting
- creativity

In my view, then, I would expected to have a number of different pool to flag before having the image being listed in the permanent galleries.

Apologies for my non-perfect English.
Ed.

I am serious about participating in the art council but to be honest I am not too sure about the parameters or purpose of voting to include an image in the main galleries. What exactly are you looking for? Best of the best? Are there size limitations to the galleries and therefore only truely exceptional images should be voted for inclusion? So far I have probably voted on around 25 images and most have been pretty good photos. I would estimate that I have voted yes on close to 80% for inclusion. I would also say that out of those 25 images only a very few were exceptional.... in my opinion. I have been a member since 2007 although I regularly delete my images and start over.I don't wish to offend any members and at the same time I would like to be helpful and vote responsibly. I think I need a little direction to be both fair and efficient. Any comments would be welcomed!
Mike

Thank you very much for taking the time to join us in this discussion, mschaper.

Your post above brings up some excellent points and questions. :o)

Going to try and address some of them..


On the note of size limitations to the galleries?

Non-issue. Or, in other words ... not a consideration where the site's server(s) HDD (Hard Disk Drive) space is concerned. Nor, that of images being considered for promotion to the Main Galleries.


"What exactly are you looking for?"

Not carved into stone, however, here are some tentative guidelines:

1) Overall composition is aesthetically pleasing to the eye.

2) Creative use of design principles - Balance, Proportion, Rhythm, Emphasis, and Unity.

3) The artist creatively makes use of line, shape, direction, size, texture, color, and value.

A good rule to judge by would be "Is this image good enough to be included in a professional publication or magazine?"


This exact topic is being mulled over on this side of the administrative fence. And your post just might be the impetus to consolidate/formalize (to an extent) the criteria for an image.

Thanks again, for taking the time and interest ... stay tuned. :o)

These comments help a great deal. I've struggled with exactly how strict you desired the votes to be. The "magazine quality" gives me a better feel for where to put the cut off line in my votes.

And by all means, as 'we' strive to come up with some guidelines ... feel free to add your own for consideration here on this discussion. :o)

"Best of the best" sums it up pretty well for me.

Well, maybe a lil' more latitude than that, Sam?


Otherwise, we may just as well change the moniker and URL of the "Main Galleries" to that of simply and aptly ... "Sam's Galleries".

;o)

This is a good page! I've been a roamin' in the gloamin' for quite a while on this one just hoping like hell I was doing the right thing! This is the one job I pop in for daily to do ever since the day I was mysteriously appointed one of these spots. (Thanks for the chance to serve, however.) One factor that would help in my decision making process is to have an idea on how urgent my vote is: must I make it the same day? Reason being that a GOOD image will just smack me in the eyes. The thumb has already nailed me and I just check the larger image for confirmation of 'bang factor' and to be sure it has the technical/production quality there. Other times though, you get those images that you don't quite FEEL. I've always found it valuable with my own work to step away a while and then go back to look. I either see the whispered magic I was being given a hint of, or find I was just thinking too much/looking too hard and there's nothing special there.
I am also guessing that we serve simply as the first line of filtering, but I could be very wrong.I'll paint a picture... If I thought I was the SOLE voter on an image, my selection criteria would probably get a lot tighter, whereas at the moment I know there are, well to be exact, 153 others adding their input and I can afford to make a mistake. In general, I apply the same rules that I do to my 'favourites' page: only the stunners get there. But that covers my personal taste whereas in this role I try to account for the tastes of others. Blah, blah, blah... I need a scale of 'toughness' to help guide me. Thanks for any feedback and the time taken to give it: Ricky.

An afterthought... In the name of being unquestionably unbiased, would it not possibly be valuable to, like the VB, see only the image until one's vote is cast. I make a point of never reading peoples comments so that my instincts are not swayed, but removing even the artists name would disallow any question of favouritism among 'friends' etc in the voting process.

"In general, I apply the same rules that I do to my 'favourites' page: only the stunners get there."

/\ That'll work, Ricky.


Save, perhaps ... keeping a mind's eye on the opening note to this discussion introduced by yours truly. Namely, that of diversity:

"But that covers my personal taste whereas in this role I try to account for the tastes of others. Blah, blah, blah... I need a scale of 'toughness' to help guide me."

In the cases or instances of such nominated images, wherein 'you' might not feel a connection based on the subject matter for example ... then, there is the option to 'abstain'.


Anonymity.

This has been discussed a few times. More so, with respect to the ol' voting booth for assigning C-Indices.

Suppose every lil' bit would help towards that of ensuring an unbiased vote ... however, the consensus seems to be that some images are readily recognizable by the authoring artist. Regardless of whether or not this information is 'hidden'.

All 'we' can hope for is that people approach this as fairly and dispassionately (where a friends' work is concerned) as possible.

Right, last thing ... time frame.

No.. rush.


You bring up an important point and I quote you here from one of your above posts;

"I've always found it valuable with my own work to step away a while and then go back to look. I either see the whispered magic I was being given a hint of, or find I was just thinking too much/looking too hard and there's nothing special there."

/\ Wise counsel and good good advice. :o)

There's in Italy a site where photos are link to poems.
It may be a personal composition or famous verses, which poetically are in harmony with the posted picture.
I've to find out the name of this site where I uploaded some my past works.
This idea (it may be a specific dedicated topic) may provide an extraordinary feeling to the photo.
Ed.

Thank you Les. As always, solid and useful guidance, and thanks for the positive feedback. I'll keep an eye on developments here, but otherwise I'll just get on with the job now. I do feel that I now have clearer parameters to operate within. My regards to one and all: Ricky.

More often than not (there are definitely exceptions) I find that most images I wind up adding to my favorites, and/or voting into the Main gallery via CAC nomination, usually grab my attention as thumbs.

As for some of the things I look for?

Well, right off the top, it has to inspire a "wow", or some other similar exclamation. I find that the longer I have to stare at, or consider an image for for promotion, the more likely it should be passed over.

Now, I have put images into my favorites that I haven't, and wouldn't promote as a "permanent" image. There's a distinguishable difference here. I may like the style, feel, or technique of a given image, but recognize it as less than optimal by site standards.

Now, for the ones that make it through the "gauntlet", so to speak, have to pass an informal checklist.

It can't be over-processed, unless the heavy processing appears intended, and somehow adds a positive quality to the finished product. Here, I ask myself, "which way would the image have looked better?".

All of the obvious criteria need to be met, such as a straight horizon, proper exposure (again, unless it appears to break that rule intentionally, and works), noise levels, etc.

Composition, is key too. The rule of thirds is a great starting point, but it's not the end-all. Sometimes dead center works. Or, in the rare instance, someone will utilize negative space or other specialized technique that makes the photo special.

And.... not to forget our CG and fractal artists...

While I couldn't even begin to create a fractal, I think I have a fairly developed sense of imagery as a whole, and try to rely on that while considering potential victims, erm.. candidates.

Color (saturation, tonality, etc), compostion lines, continuity, and originality are all considered.

Lastly, I've tried to keep it's use to a minimum, but there's that abstain button. I try to reserve it's use for images that look good, but for whatever reason, either I don't "get", or find myself at odds with it's artistic qualities. I figure, maybe it's just a matter of taste, so I'll try to be fair and let another set of eyes have a go at it.

Yet again, just one man's two cents.

As an AC member I looked at all work an voted as I felt, my little view was fair an just,some made it some not,I nominated a few, they made it also. But the hard part is all the same artists.. So I abstained more. An for all fairness I backed away form the councel it was an honor I did not deserve to have. Thank You

Steven, I really appreciate that you take your responsibilities where the community is concerned to heart.

Having said that, I would not wish to see a member ... such as yourself and with reference to the fairness you speak of ... leave the Council.

Reconsider your position, please.

And bear in mind that the process is still being refined.

Judging hurts more than creating the images.
I feel out of my depth judging photographic works especially
and 9 times out of ten abstain in this area, hoping those with a heightened sense of photographic quality filter the most worthy works.

"Judging hurts more than creating the images."

You can always practice on me, cappyd. No worries. ;o)

I don't mind being AC member, I like it and almost always I am right about my opinion and vote. I agree with Steve that very often are the same people and almost always Caedes Cadre, very rare Artists or Members. But I like it and I am not leaving. LOL I have a question. Why do I vote about posts that are already in the Main Galleries? I see them there and then I vote.???

I like to say my opinion and I don't mind somebody else saying her/his opinion about my posts. It doesn't hurt me, I enjoy shooting and nobody can change that. So, go ahead. LOL

@ milka:

"Why do I vote about posts that are already in the Main Galleries? I see them there and then I vote.???"

/\ If you come across 'bugs' (problems on the site here) like this ... go to this discussion forum; Feature Bloat / Bug Squash ... and post your findings. :o)

If an image is interesting and beautiful to the eye, and satisfies your craving for excellence's and imagination along with topnotch framing, than press that yes button with confidence. May peace and happiness be your friends, always. Dwight.