I've watched some big crying going on when some fractal creators cry over comments by photographers, who quite honestly say they don't feel they can judge and score fractal images fairly, because they don't understand them, or know how they are created.
I find it is not reciprocated however, by fractal makers saying the same thing, though they talk glibly of a photographer as one who points and just presses the shutter!
A little respect from both sides might be encouraged with people taking more time to say something about the image they have just posted? I find it very irritating to be faced with a 'happy smile' or an 'enjoy' when faced with trying to understand an image (after a laborious download on a dial-up line) - where I am expected to appreciate the complexity of an image and give a critique about it - using far more time than the author ever gave to explaining what is in front of me!
Tell me more! You communicate with me - and I'll give you my time willingly!

I see it as more of a division between the abstract art, and art with a definite image. I can't say I can understand fractals any more than a 5 year old can understand calculus, but I generally like fractals that somehow remind me of something, or look nice. (This might have something to do with my difficulty in math ^^;)

Anyway, we all have a right to an honest, and frank evaluation of images in the voting booth, and with comments.

This is really a trivial matter, that neither side really wishes to budge on, simply due to the stubbornness of familiarity... we don't like to be stretched by new ideas...

Just my take on the subject...

I'm Bi...I go both ways and luv it!!

Fhoto & Practal I mean, uh, yeah,,, that's the ticket!!

Ac / Dc I guess...no explanation needed...is it a good desktop wallpaper? Again a fractal doesn't say a story, yet, speaks one. Does it grab the viewer and mean something to them? How many mountain ranges can "we" see, really....yet, some taken very well with little need for a "story" or "thought". It's the same thing, just a different view from the hill...

OH FOR GOD'S SAKE!! get over it.. we get it... you hate fractals.. enough said already... My suggestion.. if you dont like fractals fine.. dont comment, dont even vote.. but DO NOT put an artist down because of it... everyone has their genre, everyone has their own style.. and you cant please everyone... like I said.. there is NO respect for the artists creative abilities whether its photography or fractals.... and for the 'ENJOY' part at the end of the description.... YOU do not have to enjoy it.. incase you dont realise its a word and other people ACTUALLY DO enjoy peoples work...

Or we could be completely blunt...^^:

Or we could get rid of image voting and just vote on the author themself. =P

Tim,,, I like many other members on here are sick to death of hearing how "photographers" hate "fractalists" (maybe the certain photographers should realise that maybe just maybe some fractalists are not very impressed with some photography either) for gods sakes WE ARE ALL ARTISTS and everyone should be respected for their individual styles.. its only a handful of members on here (usually the same ones) who bring it up over and over .. its getting to the point where most of the discussions on here have this brought up in every thread at some point...

I'm beginning to think there should be a compulsory secret ballot for every member to vote on it because I know for a fact that there are many members who dont take any notice of the c-index (and can actually look at images and have a brain and eyes so that they can pick one thing they like about an image even though it is not their "area of expertise")... what you people are doing is insulting not only to the artists (whatever style they choose to do) but also to this site and the art... You also have to realise that Caedes (the boss) has a busy life too, and if it wasnt for him creating this wonderful site for you to post your work.. it wouldnt be here.. you should be grateful that he lets you share your work, lets you chat, lets you have a discussion board.. he can pull the pin on this anytime he wants to... if it was me everytime a thread popped up with anything about the c-index or voting that has already been said within the last month.. i would delete it..

Secret ballot could be set out as:- (make it compulsory so that before you log on you or post you have to vote.. 1 vote per person)

1. should there be a division in voting of photography or computer generated images
in the voting booth... yes/no

2. should we have a c-index yes/no

3. should the chihauhau's be let loose the next time the c-index or voting is brought up
in the threads... YES no options... heheheh
(IN CASE YOU DONT REALISE I WAS KIDDING WITH #3)

I realize that its been discussed to death...and I agree with the compulsory ballot, that way we can have a more accurate indicator of the popularity/general opinion relating to the c-index, and its related issues.

Despite the regularity with which this is brought up, I don't think it is a reason to go on a mad rant...although I do realize that is a very easy thing to do!

1 - If a division is allowed, I think people should still have to vote on say 1 image out of 15 for the category they opted out of. Maybe they'll take more time to consider if they only have to view one in a category they don't "get", and I know many people who have said they have come to enjoy the other type of art, or respect it more due to trying to be fair in the VB

2 - Yes, once it's giving back across the board results that work, I think it will be a valuable tool for people looking to improve who sometimes don't get the critical commentary that would help them, and are instead lavished w/compliments on images that have merit but do not deserve that level of smoke-blowing.

3 - YES YES YES YES YES YES YES YES YES YES YES YES YES YES YES YES YES YES YES YES YES YES YES YES YES YES YES YES YES YES YES YES YES YES YES YES YES YES YES YES YES YES YES YES YES YES YES YES YES YES YES YES YES YES YES YES YES YES YES YES YES YES YES YES YES YES YES YES YES YES YES YES YES YES YES YES YES YES YES YES

Oops… it was supposed to be a secret ballot. Well… mom always did say I was no good @ keeping a secret. *snicker*

I love everyone :) Fractalists, photographers, computer generated thingy people. !! :)

Have a lovely Christmas everyone :) !!
And beware of chihauhaus

Geez Cat I said it was SECRET BALLOT.. lmao....

Your like me Eve... I love all art and dabble in many different kinds, the ones that I dont dabble in.. I have enourmous respect for those artists that can create that kind of art...

1 hour to go.. to total relaxation... hehehe

When I first joined Caedes, fractals were not my cup of tea either Kate. I really came to appreciate them in the VB because I would study the design of them and wonder how difficult it was to make them , the design and colors as a whole. I thought to myself that I would try my hand at them one day. Well, that day came and I was just amazed at what I had created and it felt so good knowing that I was the one who had done it. The excitement I felt was the same as taking a photograph that had turned out just the way I wanted it to.There is an endless possibility to creating fractals and to me they are just as challenging as getting the "right" shot. I have come to respect and admire both fractals and photos now and the people that create both. I'm just glad that I stepped across the line and gave fractals a try - now I have a better understanding of them. Merry Christmas everyone and will someone please get this chihauhau off my leg LOL.

I never said I didn't appreciate good photography. In fact, some of my best friends here are excellent photographers, and I often wonder how difficult it must be to take such excellent shots. I admire them for their skills. Same thing with 3d renders, the people that are good at it just blow me away. It's like Jacqueline said, I just can't stand it when people refuse to try look at any kind of art for its artistic merit and just vote it low because they're irritated and in a hurry to upload.. Furthermore, I don't see how a person can say they don't understand fractals. What is there to understand? Do you like the colors or design, is it neatly done? To me it's like someone saying I can't stand sci-fi because it's not real. Broaden your minds people, start at least trying to think outside the box. Can you not understand the concept of thinking in the abstract? Narrowminded people shouldn't be voting on anything.

my my my .. you certainly are a divisive one .. I find it comical that you bristle at glibness

I joined this site with knowledge only of my genre of art. By keeping quiet and watching and reading and following all artists works, my curiosity got the best of me and I decided that if I am going to vote on something, I needed to be informed and to know about it, the same as I do at election polls. So I learned about CG & I learned fractal art through Apophysis plus, I even created some!. I read a lot about Bryce and Poser as well. The short form is I educated myself.
It wasn't that difficult to make time.....Maybe we could all learn more about other forms of art and not be so hypersensitive and close minded. Just a suggestion though ;=)
Also, how many art museums do you know that have a complete description done by the artist hanging under the art you are looking at? As said before, art is interpretive by the individual viewing it.
....Many thanks to Caedes and the mods, the aediles and our consul for maintaining this site and keeping it running and smooth. All of you are appreciated by me for sure and I wish each of you a very Happy Holiday Season and blessings for the New Year. ;=)

My goodness, the air must get thin up there!

Ne1 have any crazy ideas, like....vote on the author instead of the image. (just bringing up something diff, it's starting to sound like the record is skipping again). (of course nto to be taken seriously). =P

A personality contest! Eeek! Being a wonderfully warm person myself, I am, of course drawn to the down and outs of this life! So point me in their direction. ;¬) Happy days are here again...

A wonderfully warm, snide person eh ? If you think for one second that I'm going to justify myself to you, or that I even need to justify my fractals to you in order to get a better vote in the booth, you were apparently dropped on your head as a baby. Often & on purpose.

I hardly think that Mimi was deserving of such a comment after calmly stating her view. After all, she's not really one of us " big crying" fractalists ... she is merely a wonderfully warm hearted person and a generous, loving friend.

Fractals...Photographers & Photomanipulators...CG Renders & Illustrations...Isn't the website devoted to a Community of ARTISTS?

angry, inflammatory, and baiting comments are really a bad idea. yes, i've made a few comments that were less than level-headed, and while i might've felt justified inthe points i made, perhaps i could've delivered them in a less abrasive or confrontational manner.

this brings me to the point of the matter at hand. I for one, know next to nothing about fractals, or quite honestly, computer art in general. also, i'm not really fond of the medium as a whole. there are however, some really fantastic works out there, and i've gone out of my way to just see them as they are, which is to say i see them as art, not as a given technique,or medium. in doing so, i can fairly judge something because i'm judging it on a visual, a sensory basis. i've also gone out of my way to compliment artists on certain pieces, and have qualified my comments with the fact that i am totally ignorant of the process(es) involved. i even have a few in my faves.

most importantly, what makes this a great site, more so than the incredible talent, is the real sense of friendship and community. i don't think that different points of view on different styles or techniques, or mediums of expressing one's artistic nature should bethe wedge that drives us apart. i'm sure most, if not all of us have to deal with our fair share of stress and difficulties in our lives, without having any when we come to a site that should be about having FUN. and i think that big picture has gone out of focus from time to time (yes, i'm among the guilty) and needs to be brought back into focus. yes, that pun was very much intended. so have fun, one and all, and chill the BLEEP out :o)

this has been a public service message from your favorite three-eyed lunatic..carry on :P

This is an argument that has gone on since cave paintings. People will always have artistic differences. One thing my art teacher told me at school that has stayed with me is something that goes through peoples minds when they judge art, they either 'know what they like' or 'like what they know'.
Personally, I never used to like fractal art. Then I discovered Apophysis (on here), tried it myself and, after spending hours and hours discovering how to 'tweak' it, I now appreciate the work involved in creating good fractals.
At the end of the day, it's 'each to their own'.

Every artist has to be pleased by their own work to post it. So if you live in a glass house, you shouldn't throw stones!

The main thing to remember (that a lot of people seem to forget) is that this is a DESKTOP WALLPAPER SITE. The main question to ask yourself if you are going to post an image here (in whatever form) is... is my image worthy of being offered to people to download as a wallpaper?

In general this site has a very high quality level of work.
However, I see a lot of images and think to myself 'why would anyone want that as a wallpaper?'.

Personally, I don't think the c-index system is the best way of judging image quality. Maybe a system based on the number of views and downloads would be better, possibly combined with a 1 to 5 star voting system.
Whatever way it's done, not all the people will be happy all the time.

I'm just thankful that we have a great site like this to show off our work. The great Caedes himself and all those that help out here do a great job, so we should all be thankful for their contributions as well as being thankful for each and every artist that help make this site so popular.

When I make something I dont care who likes it I make it for my enjoyment.

...can the same be said about your avatar? =P

Well you got me there.But in my defense I didn't make it.

Thanks Lauren & Rob...((((hugs))))...Santa knows who has been nice ;=)

I personally don’t think voting brings any benefit to this wonderful site. I feel it detracts more than it enhances it. I love this site and post both Abstract Art and Photography. I have found that on some of my art that got a low vote score, it had a high view/download rate; therefore, the scoring/voting didn’t really make sense.

I feel the voting is not needed and should be done away with all together and more merit should be given to the view/download amount. I love and appreciate both Abstract and Photography Art, but not everyone feels the way I do.

I feel in order to be able to download a new image; you should be given the task of:
(a) Making a comment on 5 pieces of art in different categories, rather than voting and giving little to no thought to your score.
(b)Or better yet, state your preference of about10 of the categories that you really enjoy and you are given the task of voting on those images as they are posted.

Voting on art that you don’t like or can’t appreciate does no one any good. I have seen many beautiful abstract art pieces that I would have loved to vote on, but never given the chance, so I go in and comment on them. I have heard from many that have the same thought I do. Maybe the decision makers at Caedes can give this some consideration.

To be honest, I love both fractals and photography.

I don't understand fractals either Tim... but I sure love 'em. They look beautiful because they make no sense, but with some of them you get a feeling that they are the universe.

Well... I do anyways.

Thanks Gemma! Someone is finally putting into words what I've been trying to and couldn't. A fractal doesn't need to be understood in order to be appreciated. That's why it's called 'abstract'. Fractals can be perceived in so many ways by different people. They are whatever you perceive them to be, your imagination is the only limit.