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Discussion Board -> Desktop Wallpaper, Art, etc. -> Constructive Karma

Constructive Karma

noobguy
06/23/04 2:22 PM GMT
Gabi had an intersting suggestion I'd like to share with you. She suggested using a karma rewards program for uploading images.. She suggested getting 1 karma for voting on images, and 2 karma for commenting. Then getting extra uploads for having the most karma. You could take this further say.make the normal user(non-cadre) upload limit to 1 per day. Then it would change to 2 per day after a certain number of karma per month/week, then to 3 after an even higher karma cap, maybe even 4. Your upload limit based on karma can be evaluated weekly/monthly whatever. So say the karma cap for 2 uploads was 30 karma a week (6 votes a day or 3 comments a day, kinna low but just for example). Say one week you had 40 weekly karma, for the entire following week you would be able to upload 2 images per day. At the end of the week your weekly karma would be assessed again. If u were under 30, you would only be able to do 1 for the next week. This would help issues in both of my other 2 topics (shes a smart girl). I dont know how hard this would be to implement, and i'm sure there are flaws in the idea. Tell me what you think.
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CSheridan10
06/23/04 2:34 PM GMT
interesting, but it might be too ard to implement, this should be asked to the moderator/image mods/caedes
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"This is like deja vu all over again." - Yogi Berra ~~CHRIS~~
reddawg151
06/23/04 5:01 PM GMT
Aie, how did no one think of this before. We've discussedm all of these images, limiting uploading, karma, people not commenting on the works they view... if you got extra karma for that, and if that karma were linked to how many uploads you could do, people would have to comment more. I think this is a really good idea. It doesn't solve all of the issues that have arisen but it would only improve upon the system. I don't think getting the extra karma points would be hard to do, but working up how it is checked to limit your uploads and whatnot could take some work.
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~Bob
+Cain
06/23/04 5:07 PM GMT
karma is just supposed to keep a general idea of your number of comments on Caedes. see if you're very present on the site I suppose... but It doesn't really matter that much, not for me anyway, and I think the others mods feel the same way.

I don't really agree with this because it's like you're paying someone for commenting... yes, this system would maybe makes people comments more, and that's not a bad thing in itself, but I'm a little afraid of what sort of comment that would be...
I'm not looking forward to seeing ten 'nice pic' on each and everyone's image so that our karma would get higher...

you can't be rewarded for commenting on people's work... it just doesn't feel right to me...
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::mayne
06/23/04 5:18 PM GMT
I agree Lucy! Unless there was a rating system for comments. Rated as constructive comment, non-constructive, BS, etc.etc...?
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Darryl
::JOHANNA
06/23/04 5:48 PM GMT
Agree with Lucy. i am very present on Caedes, but i am retired(have a lot of time).
And it's a pleasure for me to support other Caedes members.For me karma means nothing to me, if it would not exist I still comment on pictures it is a form of courtesy.
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Carpe diem.
+Samatar
06/23/04 11:59 PM GMT
It is a good idea in prinicple, but as Lucy pointed out, too easy to take advantage of. "Rating" the image as Mayne suggested would be too difficult I think. Even the karma for voting might not be a good idea, as some may just go through each page and vote "5" just to get their karma up...
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-Everyone is entitled to my opinion-
CSheridan10
06/24/04 12:06 AM GMT
these are all great points, my overall vote, Thumbs down
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"This is like deja vu all over again." - Yogi Berra ~~CHRIS~~
noobguy
06/24/04 12:23 AM GMT
haha, yeah you are right, maybe could take away the karma linked to voting (that would create a problem). As for the comment quality, perhaps the owner of the picture could rate the comments that he/she recieved from 1-10, that would get people to strive to impress ;)
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A change in Point of View: 1 2 3 4 ... more to come. Ideas?
*caedes
06/24/04 12:43 AM GMT
The only way that a system of getting karma for commenting would work (without being abused) is if only really constructive comments got karma. There is such a system on perlmonks.org that works very well to encourage very constructive comments.
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-caedes
::mayne
06/24/04 2:20 AM GMT
This is what I meant in my above post. The one recieving the comment would rate it as constructive, non-constructive. I have seen this system to but can't remember where. In the persons profile was the # of comments this person has made and the overall percentages of the different categories of comments. For example Mayne: Constructive 20%, Non-constructive 80% etc. I will try to find that site:-)
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Darryl
+Samatar
06/24/04 3:11 AM GMT
Oh, okay. That would work. Sounds like a bit of programming though.
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-Everyone is entitled to my opinion-
noobguy
06/24/04 3:31 AM GMT
It is a good bit a programming, maybe a project for the next dev site. Always good to have something to play with :)
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A change in Point of View: 1 2 3 4 ... more to come. Ideas?
Bromios
07/01/04 12:07 AM GMT
You might create a spam problem though, and how would you tell a constructive comment from random posts? That would probably require someone to go through all the day's posts, and read every one, and then give karma pointsto each person who posted a comment which was deemed constructive. I think that it would be impossible to implement without someone having that job, and that person would have to have a lot of spare time on his hands. Also it would get rather dull :)
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Whoever would love life, and see good days, must keep his tongue from evil, and his lips from deceitful speech.
::CaptainHero
07/01/04 12:31 AM GMT
Is this what you mean, Caedes?

It is an interesting idea. As mentioned above, it would be difficult to rate all the comments on your own images. One plus factor might be that people would think carefully before making a post in the first place.

I was also wondering whether it would be a good idea to do away with the secret ballot - i.e. whenever a member votes on an image, a little comment would pop up below to say that UserX has voted 7/10. At the time of voting, the member would have the option to leave a comment or just a blank field. It was just an idea - it has certain pros and cons to it.
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"The whole problem with the world is that fools and fanatics are always so certain of themselves, but wiser people so full of doubts." Bertrand Russell
+Samatar
07/01/04 12:51 AM GMT
Would such a system discourage constructive criticism, do you think?
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-Everyone is entitled to my opinion-
::CaptainHero
07/01/04 12:59 AM GMT
You mean the visible votes?

It is possible, but I like to think that people would be able to vote 'low' without feeling inhibited. I know what you mean though.

I think people that constructively criticise a piece of work would tend to leave a comment anyway, not just a low vote. In that case, they are clearly not going to worry about people seeing their vote.

Conversely, some people who vote high all the time might be 'shamed' into voting more realistically.

I am playing devil's advocate to some extent: I would probably baulk a little bit at voting low if I knew everyone could see it.
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"The whole problem with the world is that fools and fanatics are always so certain of themselves, but wiser people so full of doubts." Bertrand Russell
noobguy
07/01/04 1:21 PM GMT
I dont know, a visible voting system would probably just discourage alot of voting, and to bromios, the idea was for the author of the picture to rate his own comments and not for someone to rate all of the comments on the site.
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A change in Point of View: 1 2 3 4 ... more to come. Ideas?
::CaptainHero
07/01/04 1:35 PM GMT
As mentioned, it would be a lot of work to rate all the comments on your own images. It would still boil down to subjectivity anyway - someone might leave a perfectly good piece of constructive criticism and then have it classed as 'bad' by the author of the image.

I still like the base idea, though, but it runs into the same problem as all the other discussions - potential user abuse (whether intended or not). It's probably about the best idea so far - I think it needs to be discussed and refined further.
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"The whole problem with the world is that fools and fanatics are always so certain of themselves, but wiser people so full of doubts." Bertrand Russell
+Samatar
07/02/04 12:11 AM GMT
What I meant is, if people were able to vote on comments that people left on images (as to how "good" or "bad" the comment was), might that discourage people from leaving any comments that might be interpreted as "negative", even if in truth they were giving sincere advice/feedback?
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-Everyone is entitled to my opinion-
noobguy
07/02/04 12:40 AM GMT
perhaps anyone that came across the comment, even other people planning on commenting on the image could rate the comment as well. this would perhaps cause u to be more honest. for instance if you said a blurry low res image was completely awesome, the author may know no better, but other people who click on the image may rate your comment low/ balancing out author bias.
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A change in Point of View: 1 2 3 4 ... more to come. Ideas?
rustectrum03
07/02/04 8:47 AM GMT
I still think that votes on images per day(maybe 10 votes per 1 upload[the #s would have to be played with tho]) and leave the 2 uploads per day limit, is the fix everyone is looking for. It would allow for the site to continue to grow plus it wouldn't be to difficult to implement.

for karma to work, it'd have to be completely revamped because for just writing down this message I am getting 1 karma point as well...I just think messing with karma to make it be judged is not what we want...I'd rather not have/program(thinking of caedes here) a system based entirely on people because we are all different and the standard 'good comment' will always be different for different people...
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-->"When it is time to die, let us not discover that we never lived." --Henry David Thoreau
noobguy
07/02/04 9:02 AM GMT
you have good points, i'm not sure the voting restriction would work, because then users may throw out votes just to get some in. your point with karma is good, I dont know about the programming difficulty, but part of it is already implemented of course (karma for comments). I think your comment on different people thinking different comments are good/bad is why maybe voting on a comment should be open to anyone instead of just the author, different people have different opinions on pictures but if you have a great picture its average rating will still be very high, perhaps the same with comments?
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A change in Point of View: 1 2 3 4 ... more to come. Ideas?
::CaptainHero
07/02/04 8:27 PM GMT
They have a system on Amazon for reviewing products. Any user can leave a review on an item. Any other users can then vote on whether or not they found that review useful. Perhaps we could use something along those lines as a template.

It would still involve a lot of work though, both in terms of the initial programming and tweaking, and the subsequent ongoing reviewing.
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"The whole problem with the world is that fools and fanatics are always so certain of themselves, but wiser people so full of doubts." Bertrand Russell
phoenixashes
07/02/04 9:55 PM GMT
Good idea but I dont know enough about programs and creating a system like that to say further. Having things based on karma though isn't a bad idea we just can't trust people enough. Anyway there are a lot of great minds here and so far you've done a great job with the site =)
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Life is like an analogy.
rustectrum03
07/03/04 4:14 AM GMT
people just plainly don't vote on images enuf as it is...
my view to vote ratio is like 12:1 and there is even an incentive to vote...but then expecting them to vote on comments?...
basing a system completely off the want to vote when there is really very little to no incentive to actually do it sets the system to be unfair for some.
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-->"When it is time to die, let us not discover that we never lived." --Henry David Thoreau
::CaptainHero
07/03/04 10:09 AM GMT
Certainly there is a danger that by increasing participation via more voting, you are potentially alienating people who do not have a lot of time to spend. However, it might have the desired effect of making everyone think more carefully about overzealous commenting/voting/uploading.

However, I would not want a system that discriminated against people who could not spend as much time on the site as those who (for whatever reason) are able to spend a lot of time here. As always it should be quality that counts more than quantity whether we are talking about images submitted or comments left.
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"The whole problem with the world is that fools and fanatics are always so certain of themselves, but wiser people so full of doubts." Bertrand Russell
::grimbug
07/09/04 2:13 PM GMT
..ok it might have been said.. but here's what im thinking.. its alrwady been posted on the caedes growth post.. but it more apt to have it here as noobguy pointed out

Another late comer to the convo.. but if anyone is interested to here my '2 cents' worth then read on.....Certainly i feel its the quality of the the quantity and the not the sheer volume thats the major issue...( warning I am being hypocritical here, as im guilty of not commenting as much, or as critically as i should.. primarily due to the fact that i only really comment on work that catches my eye.. but i do make a point of voting as much as possible) we should be doing more to encourage image posters to make improvements to thier work, which will in turn imporve the general quality on site.To this end, the best way for people to improve is to recieve constructive critique, and in my eyes it's the absence of this that has the most effect on the site....By far the best comment system i have seen comes from photosig.com, have a look at a photo to see what i mean...but as far actually making people comment well thats a toughy... the best i could suggest would be to use a coment system such as photosig, where people recieve a rating for thier comments .. this would generate a score like the current karma one. the tangible reward for this aside from a pretty number you can show to your friends.... would be an extra title... which would appear under your name on a post. your somment rating score effcting your title.... say starting at ' novice' ...'Trainee commentator'...'Offical advisor' ..to the lofty ranks of 'wise-man'.. 'guru'... 'omnipotent being' ... well it's any idea.. it thinks thats all i wanted to say.. and i think im rambling off the point probably... ;)
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- "I dont have my own opinions, i just get them from the huge sums of cash i recieve"
::CaptainHero
07/10/04 8:11 PM GMT
Thanks, Graeme. I think we are all guilty to some extent of not leaving constructive criticism on some images.
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"The whole problem with the world is that fools and fanatics are always so certain of themselves, but wiser people so full of doubts." Bertrand Russell

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