I've been thinking a lot about the growth problem here... and I have a couple of ideas. Hear me out.

So, one of the major problems people have is not getting their images seen. Often an image uploaded at the wrong time of day can get pushed down and never seen; it happens to all of us. My idea to get more people to see more images is this: require people to look at, and comment on, a certain number of images before they are even allowed to upload one of their own.

Example: Say I'm a new user, and I want to upload an image. I read the short simple explanation: "In order to upload an image of your own, you have to comment on at least 3 other images in the New Images gallery." Simple enough, I say. I open up the new images gallery, find 3 images I like, and comment on them.

This has some benefits and some problems... first of all, it solves both the problem of not enough exposure/comments and too many uploads (It increases the "cost" of uploading, so people would theoretically upload less) (and in fact, comments could be a kind of currency -- you have to spend them in order to post images, but you still have the same maximum uploads we have now, 2 or 4 (or 1 or 2, whatever)). The main problem I see is tracking the comments and their validity... I envision lots of "Nice." and "Good shot." just to get the upload, (not that we don't already see those sorts of comments)...

Anyway, just an idea. Play with it.

I think that would probably cheapen comments, very similar to what we were talking about with the karma rewards. I havent had a problem with images getting "lost" lately. I've experimented with uploading at different times and still have gotten views and comments on all of my recent images. I like to upload very late at night, so they used to get lost in the morning rush and get "lost" after the next evening rush. But all good. It doesnt really make a difference any more, if they get seen they get seen, if not its no matter. My photography is more for a personal gain, just like to share.

I respect that trait in you Anthony. and i agree (and i was thinking this as i read what the discussion was about) that it would "cheapen" (as Anthony describes) comments. But then you said said too that we sometimes already get those cheap short comments like "nice" "good Shot" "cool" but then i was thinking of having them say "but no cheap comments they have to (ya know) etc." but then i thought no ones going to go by that. But there is aleady a desciption of how a comment should be addressed in the Code of Conduct (i think) so maybe Caedes could just make us follow that.

But i thought the idea was great because i have had this problem. And i thought the "price" for uploading was reasonable. Because a lot of people do this anyway.

...but unfortunatly I don't think this idea is going to progress to happen. But i think it would be a good one for them to play with.

Good idea
-Sean

Thanks for commenting on my ideas, Anthony and Sean. Personally I think the same way as Anthony for the most part, but there are those images that you really want feedback on, and you just can't get it sometimes. (which is probably feedback too!) (Actually, that's very true -- if your image really is good, it will get comments, probably a lot of them.)

Honestly though, this is just something I thought of one night, and I think many people do strive for the approval of their fellow members (and maybe we need to put less emphasis on that and more emphasis on the images themselves, but that would be a huge shift). And I think one thing wrong with this idea is that it forces people to comment, which very well could result in lower comment quality. But I think that if someone was commenting in order to get their own image uploaded, then they wouldn't be leaving bad comments -- because they, as a member with a gallery, also want good comments. It's the golden rule, but it's pretty visible, with obvious consequences, so people are likely to follow it. ;-)

I for one always try to leave lengthy and useful comments. I can type fast, and have no lack of words for anything, so why not? And I appreciate it when someone does the same for me, which is one of the reasons I like this community. You get back what you give to it. And we wonder why it's growing so fast...

The idea of pricing uploads with comments has already been discussed. As you say, it could lead to lots of cheap comments on images.

On the other discussion, the idea of having a comment-rating system was mooted. In other words, you post a comment on an image and then other people can click on a radio button/pull-down list or whatever to say whether the comment was useful or not.

This of course has it's own drawbacks - you need to get people involved enough to not only comment on pictures but also rate everyone elses comments. This might at least have the effect of people leaving decent comments.

The thing is of course that those people that are able for one reason or another to spend lots of time on the site will have an advantage - they can comment and vote all day if they want. As always we need a solution that relies on quality, not quantity.

Ultimately, any proposals must surely rely on the goodwill and self-awareness/self-control of the users. However - it is precisely this that is the problem. Far too many images are being uploaded. I guess it all comes down to the ability of the community to police itself. Many people have complained about the flood of images. I think it is reasonable to assume that if there were less images each day, we would be able to devote more time to them. Certainly that was my experience in the 'olden days' when often less than a page of new images would appear each day. Maybe as a community we need to approach any user who is uploading a lot and have a friendly word? Maybe that would work better than simple blanket limit reductions on uploads (though I am all for cutting uploads per user to 1 or 2 per day).

Just a thought. Too radical? (not sure I'd have the guts to do it myself!)

lol long post Matthew. I'd be willing to vote for a "guts patrol" group for the site and graciously and guilt-free turn down any nominations for BJ! lol

haha I like that idea of having to give comments to get them for your new images but we would see more low quality comments. If BJ is suggesting that a group formed to police the comment quality perhaps one is in order but it is always nice to hear someone compliment your picture even if they dont give a reason =)

Trisweb: I've had the exact same idea only replace "view and comment" with "view and vote on"
-making people view and vote on images to upload images...
a)fixes the problem of peak-hour traffic and images getting "lost in the clutter" efficiently and perhaps permanently
b)gets the struggling artist more views and thus more help
c)fixes the lack of commenting thing indirectly...most of the time when we view another's image we will leave some sort of a comment..it's just that with all the clutter it's hard to get to them all

secondly--we will never get the old days of caedes back where we will be able to view every image, this is far too awesome a site for it not to grow more; by uploading images we will only get so far because as the caedes population goes up we will have to limit uploads more and more it can't and won't be a permanent fix to do things that way

thirdly- I really don't like the having to give comments to get comments and I don't want people policing my comments either; I give comments not because it's required of me or because I feel I have to, I do it because I like and would like to try and help people if they indeed can learn anything from me...with all the bureacracy of regulating comments, I'd find the whole process intrusive and probably stop doing it altogether.

With the current upload standards, I dont find it very hard to view the new images. I am trying to break the habit of just scrolling through the icons real quick like I used to and actually viewing them all. I think having a comment police is silly. Encourage constructive comments always, but forcing it is ridiculous. I think I said something about that in another recent post. Anyways, just my two cents.

Brett -- I definately agree with you on everything. I've thought my ideas over a bit and it would be weird adding the "alterior motive" to the process of commenting. Even if the comments themselves aren't cheap in words, they will be made cheaper by the fact that the author gets something out of it besides just the satisfaction of looking at one's work and appreciating it.

The voting idea is good -- and hey, Caedes already has a vote forcer programmed for the non-cadre members! Might just work.

Anthony and Ashley, I was absolutely only joking and agreeing with Matthew that I wouldn't have the guts either to pm someone and tell them they are uploading too much. Yes, having to police anything on this site is silly yet sadly sometimes warranted. We have Caedes, Xentrick, and the mods for that and that is certainly efficient enough. ;)

This whole thing is like chinese whispers!

Nobody suggested policing comments and I don't believe anyone suggested giving comments to get comments either.

My understanding was that we were talking about uploads being related to users leaving comments. There was also a suggestion of maybe rating other users comments to help limit cheap comments. As with any suggestions there are potential pitfalls.

Actually, BJ did jokingly suggest policing comments, "I'd be willing to vote for a "guts patrol" group for the site" (joke, again), and the original intent was actually about giving comments in order to upload, and thus, get comments on your own work. Though, "giving comments to get comments" isn't very direct, that *was* the general idea. I'm not liking it so much anymore; I'm opting more for a reward system for, perhaps, users that the mods select as leaving particularly good comments. If it were random, and not a known reward, it might actually make the comments better or result in more commenting. Or maybe not, I don't know. Just throwing things out there again. :)

I was just stating that comments are not an efficient way of controlling the 'growth' problem...it causes too many more problems ... I was just hype-ing the problems that could be caused to emphasize their pitfall...nothing more :)

I think comments should be made to offer help if you can give it and offer your apprecitation; no alterior motives or anything more

yes, indeed. If users knew that any comment they left would result in some sort of reward, that could have a very detrimental effect.