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Discussion Board -> Desktop Wallpaper, Art, etc. -> A letter to the editors

A letter to the editors

.Tomeast
12/29/07 3:52 AM GMT
There are so many here that have execellent photo editing skills.If there could perhaps be an area set aside on this site for us to upload photos to that could be reviewed by these skilled individuals and worked on.Anonymity could be kept by both the photographer or editor.I think that this could be a great benifit for those of us that have some photographic skill but lack editing skills.I have friends that are willing to edit photos for me but I often show a poor lack of judgment in the photos that I chose to be edited.This way, the ones with the good editing eye, could weed these out before they get posted.This could be a benifit to the site most certainly.
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::danika
12/29/07 4:12 AM GMT
A good idea ~ there has been some limited discussion on a "Works In Progress" Gallery. Maybe this should be redirected to Caedes For A Day

Hopefully this will get the discussion back on track or on second thought, another idea will just get lost in the shuffle.

Oops ~ I'm not an editor ~ I probably should not have commented here.
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Life is not measured by the number of breaths we take, but by the moments that take our breath away ~ George Carlin
.Tomeast
12/30/07 12:41 AM GMT
I thought that the thread, Caedes For A Day, did get off track and thats why decided to start a new one.My thought is, if there were an area set aside for people to post an unedited photo of what they deem to be something worthy but is in need of someones touch that is skilled in editing.Maybe those with good editing skills could download it to work on.Then contact the photographer if they feel that their results would be an improvement.I know that there are some people here that are very skilled at editing images.This could be a way to improve on the quality of the images posted on this site.I think that alot of us who feel that we are able to take a presentable photo often botch the editing process.I myself, feel this way anyway.
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::Shewolfe
12/30/07 12:46 AM GMT
It would be nice, I don't want to upload my photos that need work into my gallery just to ask for help and then have to mess abuot swapping things ifkwim.
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"Everyone has a photographic memory...some just don't have film." ~~My DA Gallery~~
purmusic
12/30/07 2:08 AM GMT
I get paid in cookies on any reworks. Just an f.y.i..

Kidding, of course Tom.

As Sherree said the idea has been bantered about, and I like your additional thoughts on the subject.

Think it might be best, if I can play contrarian here for a moment ... to keep it more focussed on the newer members' uploads though.

Not a free for all, as I expect and suspect and anticipate that even though you don't feel you have the necessary skills as of yet ... you will I am sure in time.

Jumping back over the line ...

Now for those that do not have the software? Might be another argument in favour for the creation of the gallery.

Good one Tom.

Here ... have a cookie ... wait a minute, you still owe me from that last rework. >:o| (<--- JOKe)
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"Sometimes me think what is love, and then me think love is what last cookie is for. Me give up the last cookie for you." - Cookie Monster
&KEIFER
12/30/07 2:42 AM GMT
At DSL-Reports\Digital-Imaging forum .. they allow images posted into the forums .. people will post a problem shot and ask for ideas\critique\and EDITING .. they do so with a [CritEditY] flag in their topic title

-----> [CritEditY] Suggestions for Improvement


a lot of times, people just want somebody else to 'fix' their photo .. but it can be a teaching tool as well ... and it would give a handful of people an excuse\opportunity to find their auto-levels button

;)

I am all for it .. if the twiddly bits of how it would work within the Caedes Environ could be .. eh, twiddled

but keep in mind that the request-for-comment forum gets very little traffic ... even the peeps requesting comments don't comment on the other peeps request for comments

a little encapsulated humanity, right there
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.Tomeast
12/30/07 3:52 AM GMT
I wasn`t exactly saying that we should throw our bad photos up for others to edit because we or I am too lazy or stupid to learn how to edit photos.I have photoshop and use it.Some have a knack for editing skills and some have a knack for taking photos.The idea was for a community effort to combine these skills and share the results.Ok Les, have a cookie.Chochlate chip on me.I`m not sure Im following along with you keifer but don`t really get the gist of what your saying. This may not be such a good idea then.
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purmusic
12/30/07 4:09 AM GMT
I believe ... in our usual misguided attempts at keeping things light ... both Keith and me are agreeing with you Tom.

The idea certainly has merit in my humble opinion. And no slights are being directed at you.

Combining Keith and my thoughts here, if the powers that be could/would do the coding ... and that is, set up the necessary gallery or galleries (there could be splinter cells, one for photography one for cig works, just guessing and extrapolating here) ... the big if ... in my mind only, is the policing of the uploads to those galleries put in place and the members using them.

Stay with me on this, you need to be able to defend your position that's all I am saying here ... and I do agree that it is a good idea ... and I certainly wasn't inferring that anyone was dumb or lazy. Just attempting to make it palatable and feasible, simply put.

Perhaps a limit then as to the number of submissions might aid in the self-policing. That might work towards putting your idea into place.

Think that makes sense, are we good on this?
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"Sometimes me think what is love, and then me think love is what last cookie is for. Me give up the last cookie for you." - Cookie Monster
purmusic
12/30/07 4:20 AM GMT
One more thing ... it does happen to a large extent already behind closed doors, so to speak.

Something for consideration ... I would much rather work with the original file/photo ... then one downloaded from the site here.

The sites' servers recompress the data to an extent and leads to some degradation of the data. Just saying.

So, many times personal contact is initiated and emails with attachments are exchanged in those instances ... and they are frequent, however not as public. You might have already come across a member commenting on an author's image ... wherein he/she said ... "I emailed you a copy of a rework, have a look".

Further, if the exchanges are kept 'private' ... then 'we' all lose on that exchange of ideas/tips/advice and so forth.

So, perhaps you could work on a form of sorts ... wherein the parties involved could fill out certain sections ... and then upon the upload of the rework ... post it along with the reworked image. Information on the images' page.

Ok, made it thus far ... and no jokes. I best stop here.
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"Sometimes me think what is love, and then me think love is what last cookie is for. Me give up the last cookie for you." - Cookie Monster
&KEIFER
12/30/07 4:26 AM GMT
I was just showing how one site "does it" .. and, yes, some people, THERE, just want their photo fixed, and they basically say so .. "could somebody remove my ex-girlfriend from this shot"

the idea has some merit .. it has been mentioned before, and there is currently the same idea being floated in the Aediles forum ... but, while it may never come to pass, and you should not 'expect' it to ... you should, also, not give up on it so easily


... my commentary on things is always provided gratis
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::tealeaves
12/30/07 4:28 AM GMT
I for one, like your idea Tom.

I believe that something similar has been suggested in the "Caedes for a day" thread, as in a "Works in progress gallery". But rather than anonymity, as you suggested, I think that if we just had a gallery that we could upload images to, that we feel are worthy of additional editing, then comments/feedback could be given by way of tips and ideas to the artist to do themselves. This would provide a great learning experience.

As Keith pointed out, the site already has a thread dedicated to members requesting critiques on particular images, however, I don't believe that enough people are aware of this.

I appreciate the link to the Digital Imaging forum at DSL-Reports, Keith. I was not aware they had such a forum. I do wish there was something similar here.
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Each cup of tea represents an imaginary voyage. ~Catherine Douzel
&KEIFER
12/30/07 4:39 AM GMT
as Les was saying .. if a person has upped an image that they, themselves, have post-processed with whatever method .. say, SEPIA-Toned .. and they say: "this is the only thing I could do to save this image .. any suggestions?"

I can not\will not work with that image .. I need the original, preferably at FULL REZ

Not to imply that I am in possession of color-reclamation skills .. I iz not
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::tealeaves
12/30/07 4:51 AM GMT
Oops...During my thought process and typing, I see that I missed Les' comments, which are also great. I like the idea of e-mail exchanges, and I would even be willing to help when assistance is needed in editing. I enjoy a good challenge :)
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Each cup of tea represents an imaginary voyage. ~Catherine Douzel
&KEIFER
12/30/07 5:04 AM GMT
A "good challenge" is a challenging good idea .. similar to Les' Fractal challenge

people would use the same original .. and, either a straight color-pop or artistic re-envisioning could result .. depending on the person editing and their area of interest\expertise

we have access to flamers\framers\and re-namers
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::tealeaves
12/30/07 5:17 AM GMT
I really like that, Keith! And a great use of the "Member Initiated Projects" thread.

Or has this been done before? hmmm..
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Each cup of tea represents an imaginary voyage. ~Catherine Douzel
::J_272004
12/30/07 5:59 AM GMT
why can't the artist requesting the "help" email the image to whoever wants to help, the the "helper" can write what he would have done to it.. just an idea..

I like the idea of having a "how-do-I-fix-it" gallery.. maybe too on the front page there could be something to say Please check these forums regulary.. "Request for comment" and "Vigilante Threads"
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MY GALLERY ........... "Live one day at a time and make it a masterpiece"
.Tomeast
12/30/07 4:05 PM GMT
I was a little frustrated thinking that I was not getting my idea across.I did kinda of miss your attempts at keepimg things light guys.I didn`t want to go into the logistics of how to make it work, not sure it could.I have sent photos by email to a few friends here to be edited, Les.I`m sure alot of people do this also and its a good way to get editing help.I will have a look at that site, Keifer.Thanks, Lori for pointing some things out to me.Well, I am glad that my idea was understood here.I`m Not going to drag this through the muck anymore then.(Keeping things light).
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purmusic
12/30/07 4:17 PM GMT
No worries here Tom.

Appreciate your response. :o)
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"Sometimes me think what is love, and then me think love is what last cookie is for. Me give up the last cookie for you." - Cookie Monster
+Samatar
12/30/07 11:21 PM GMT
I think the initial concept is quite good, but I don't see any easy way to set it up. I think it would be easier just to have a thread in the "request for comment" forum where people could ask for assistance in editing their work. In the past when I have done this for people I usually get them to email me the original image full size rather than downloading it from the site. The only thing that wouldn't work is that you couldn't keep it anonymous, but again I can't really see how it would be possible to upload an image and remain anonymous without some fairly major changes to the way the site runs at the moment?

If anyone else agrees this is a good idea maybe we could initiate said thread...
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-Everyone is entitled to my opinion- rescope.com.au
&KEIFER
12/31/07 2:24 AM GMT
I think .. (yes, I do, stop it) .. all that is required is:



1) .. Host for original .. a place to post the original, like photobucket, DevArt .. wotevah! ... this way the poster posts ONCE .. and nobody is exchanging emails ... perhaps, if things workout, Caedes.net could set aside a few MB's for hostage

2) .. a Forum, although "request for comment" COULD be used ... in a perfect world, this forum would display thumbnails .. but, in order to do that "safely" within the caedes environ, the images would have to be 'hosted' here (and thus +modded) to prevent thumb'ing of knotties

3) .. Apathy-Free Masses .. they swagger, when walking down the street, because of their imagined pixel-pushing-prowess ... they pop in, take a gander at the goods .. think: "I can do a number on THAT" .. they get the pre-gandered goods on the down-low .. make it sit up, pretty .. jack it back in to the net ... and sit back and wait for George Lucas to call with that set design job



see? ... easy!
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purmusic
12/31/07 2:42 PM GMT
A thread?

Hmm ... might be a good first step to test the waters.

Ideally though, how's about a gallery as has been suggested? This said to make implementation as easy as possible before addressing the additional coding necessary to incorporate the other ideas that have fleshed this out.

Seems to me that it comes down to making the membership aware of what is available to them ... and then, of course gauging the response to any changes or considered ones that would end up being coded in stone.

But ... but ... a gallery ... might just pave the way. My thinking here is that at least that aspect is somewhat more front and center come upload time.
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"Sometimes me think what is love, and then me think love is what last cookie is for. Me give up the last cookie for you." - Cookie Monster
&KEIFER
12/31/07 3:36 PM GMT
a gallery would be accessible to more eyes than a forum, yes


would said gallery be intermixed with the "new images"?
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purmusic
12/31/07 3:49 PM GMT
Think that that would ... for now, just make it easier.

So, I suppose they still get voted on and such ... perhaps the author could include something in their narratives alerting the viewers their reasons for uploading.

Don't see a problem with keeping it open to the viewing public at large ... as it (the image, that is) still might garner some useful comments and/or suggestions.

Once it gets better known to the membership (anticipating this reaction, perhaps .. Hey!! More snaphshots being allowed? No ... this is a pre-reworks gallery.. ) ... then decisions could be made as to how to refine the idea/gallery.

Heyyyyyyy ... 'we' just might have stumbled on a solution for the snapshot situation. Mods move the questionable images to this pre-reworks gallery ... time limit attached and inherent?

If questioned by the artist ... 'Why did you move my image to this gallery?' ... "We feel that this might help expose your work to some helpful comments, and which yes ... we deem needs some additional work in a few areas."

Not as bad as having it deleted or removed initially, you know? And then making it apparent that such images will be removed and/or archived if necessary.


/\ This needs some work though and is off the top of my head before I forget it. :oP /\
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"Sometimes me think what is love, and then me think love is what last cookie is for. Me give up the last cookie for you." - Cookie Monster
purmusic
12/31/07 3:56 PM GMT
Right. Mixed in with the new images.

Wellll ... I don't know what is necessary insofar as coding is concerned ... and if there is a concern and beyond the obvious ones, what the appearance of less quality images would be to the site by allowing viewers/visitors to see them.

Perhaps, a hidden gallery ... viewable only by members then?
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"Sometimes me think what is love, and then me think love is what last cookie is for. Me give up the last cookie for you." - Cookie Monster
::tealeaves
12/31/07 6:59 PM GMT
If a hidden gallery were possible, would the images in said gallery also be exempt from receiving votes? I believe more people would be open to the idea, if they did not have to view them in the same fashion as the "new images", ie. voting on them. I also agree that it would be an ideal solution in regards to snapshots, as Les has pointed out.
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Each cup of tea represents an imaginary voyage. ~Catherine Douzel
::Pixleslie
01/01/08 7:30 PM GMT
Overall reaction: Great idea.

Further thoughts: How about a Workshop Gallery that's separate from the new images stream -- one that allows before and after images to be displayed simultaneously? Comparisons like that are a great learning tool.

Why would I separate the Workshop from the new images stream? Because in the VB, you see *only* the image until after you vote. Unless the coding can stamp some kind of indicator on a to-be-edited image or can provide text with that kind of image, voters will think they're seeing an I-say-this-is-Caedes-quality submission.

But beyond that, why have members devote time and thought to voting on images that the makers themselves don't think are "ready for prime time" yet?

A bigger question for me: Would using the Workshop as a snapshot cemetery actually produce kinder, gentler results?

Maybe my crystal ball needs Windexing again, but it looks to me like shunting rejects to the Workshop would discourage editors from participating, discourage those seeking to learn more about editing from posting photographs-to-be-made-better among outright rejects, and encourage the owners of the rejects to clobber the Mods with yet greater fury. Here's my thinking:

Any number of skilled editors would be attracted to photographs that present editing challenges and would enjoy sharing their skills with those --

-- who want to improve their editing skills and have good image editing software at their disposal,

-- who already understand their software's basic functions and the principles of photography, and

-- who pursue answers to many of their questions through help screens, tutorials, and other resources rather than expecting endless free instruction from a volunteer editor.

But that's not the same thing as devoting your time to processing snapshots, is it?

Nor is it the same thing as sorting through the snapshots to find photographs that will be Caedes-worthy once edited (perhaps already are Caedes-worthy but not yet what the photographers intend them to be) and that come from owners geared up for advancing their editing skills and not put off by having to submit their images to a board that displays snapshots Caedes.net has declined to accept even for archiving. That *would* soon turn out to be the preponderance of images on the Workshop board, would it not, Mods?

Still, this hazard that I see at the "input" end of the process ain't shucks to the hazard I see at the "output" end:

Howl 1: Nobody fixed my pic so nobody but you, you stupid Mussolini, thought it needed fixing so don't you dare put it anyplace but the perm galleries.

Howl 2: You put my pic on that Caedes For Dummies Board and GeniusPicFixer fixed it, so now you better put it in the regular galleries or else, you pig-ignorant Mao-wannabe, you, and not call it a snapshot just because it is my cellphone pic of my toe with a price sticker on it that I peeled off the can I also submitted as a pic that your editor's going to put in focus and expose it right soon, too, just like Andy Warhol.

Howl 3: I put my pic up and DopeyPicWrecker messed it up, so now you better put the original in the regular galleries where it always belonged, you moronic Attila the Hen, you.

Howl 4: If you think my pic needs work, you drooling fool of a Genghis Khan impersonator, you owe me the courtesy of letting ME know that instead of putting my art on the Short Bus Board to expose me to ridicule and to expose my art to defilement.

This is not to mock the misery of having work (of any kind) rejected (in any context) -- I've lived it many times in many places and will live it again -- but to point out that sometimes a simple, direct "No" is the easiest to bear. Sort of like in the skinned-knees days when we learned that pulling a bandaid off just an itty-bitty bit at a time was *not* going to spare us further pain.

Just sayin'.
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A photograph is a secret about a secret. The more it tells you the less you know. Diane Arbus
::J_272004
01/01/08 10:40 PM GMT
lol @ Leslie.. you sure got that right.. lol.. I think a "gallery" for pics that need "fixing" is a good idea.. I would use it for my experiments that I want feedback on.. eg.. the dogs eye that I did..
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MY GALLERY ........... "Live one day at a time and make it a masterpiece"
.Tomeast
01/02/08 10:49 PM GMT
I was thinking along the lines of having a gallery set aside that was not in the new images stream as Pixleslie stated.Maybe the idea that members only could view it is a good idea too.An unedited gallery with only our best eforts put forth.Slanted with the water and dust spots intact and not rezized at all.Perhaps there could be a limit of one per month and there for no more than a month before being deleted.If someone chose to work on them they would contact the shooter and show the edited photo to them.Then they would be submitted in the usual way for comments etc.I`m not sure what, if anything, happens in the upload process here. If it were possible to keep the same format that was uploaded(JPEG)etc this may keep the editing process as true as possible.I see so many good suggestions here and hope that something could be worked out.
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.marcaribe
02/05/08 10:04 PM GMT
Hi Tom,
I just posted a picture called "Frosty Icicle No 1" I didn't do a thing to it, Nada. If someone would like to edit it that would be fine with me.
That is a good idea you have there.
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.Tomeast
02/06/08 11:35 PM GMT
Hi Diane,
I had a look and did some quick edits.I will send a PM you.Yours is a very good photo and is one that in my opinion does not need much editing work done to it.I have not yet put the time into learning my photo editing programs.I know just enough to make things presentable for posting. Again, my idea was for those that do have very good knowledge and skill using such programs to have a way of offering this skill to aid others through an unedited gallery of some sort.I came up with this idea when I noticed comments made on images explaning exactly what needed to be done.I thank you, Diane, for this offer but unfortunatly, I am not person to go to just yet.
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