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Desktop Wallpaper, Art, etc.
Discussion Board -> Desktop Wallpaper, Art, etc. -> Knee-jerk reaction?
Knee-jerk reaction?
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THis is not something I have noticed to any great extent.
I (almost) always make a point of giving my own opinion before ready previous comments, often discovering I have said the same thing as others.
I guess everyone has different ideas and what may appear to need improvment to some may look perfectly fine to others and vice versa.
I have noticed on some of my own framed images the frame spoils it for some while others like it. Different points of view are always interesting and I see no harm in a general discussion as to the pros and cons of the way the artist has presented their image.
I am not quite sure what you mean by 'collective reaction'. Is there a devious gang of people intent in critiquing the comments, or is it a group of people trying to offset the 'shining cuddly' reviews? I agree with you that a reason should be given for the different point of view if it would be helpful, but the trend seems to be towards short comments in the main, by the majority - but by no means all.
You are asking why - I have no idea, but I am sure others will.
:)
I (almost) always make a point of giving my own opinion before ready previous comments, often discovering I have said the same thing as others.
I guess everyone has different ideas and what may appear to need improvment to some may look perfectly fine to others and vice versa.
I have noticed on some of my own framed images the frame spoils it for some while others like it. Different points of view are always interesting and I see no harm in a general discussion as to the pros and cons of the way the artist has presented their image.
I am not quite sure what you mean by 'collective reaction'. Is there a devious gang of people intent in critiquing the comments, or is it a group of people trying to offset the 'shining cuddly' reviews? I agree with you that a reason should be given for the different point of view if it would be helpful, but the trend seems to be towards short comments in the main, by the majority - but by no means all.
You are asking why - I have no idea, but I am sure others will.
:)
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The question is not what you look at, but what you see ~ Marcel Proust
Ya hay There: I agree that comments left for a Artist are less than shining. I think that most commentors dont feel they are qualified to constructively critique or comment on the merits of the work presented, but still feel compelled to say something. As Artists we post here to improve our skills. I think improvement comes from knowing what the viewer expects to see. As a guide to anybody reading this,I would like to say its easy to upchuck an opinion, but to produce a appealing suggestion is not so easy. I would suggest you maybe structure you comments using a simple guide.
IMPACT
TECHNIQUE
COMPOSITION
INTEREST
First of all rate a photo by its IMPACT! or the WOW factor. This is usually your "first impression" of the photo. This could be anything that "distinguishes the photo" and brings it to your attention. Lets not forget to include the all important "Technique" in your comments, the method the artist used to present the subject. We have all been battling with "Composition" where to place the subject of our photo. And of course we can all jump up and down for "Interest" Many photos are correct in technique, composition, focus and lighting, but are of lousy interest. Dont they call these snapshot photos or boring photos? If everyone were encouraged to use some type of guide to structure their comments, we shouldnt be getting much more of "thats nice, good shot, looks fine. Unless the commentators are just lazy and wish only to make cuddly reviews. Of course this is just my opinion.
IMPACT
TECHNIQUE
COMPOSITION
INTEREST
First of all rate a photo by its IMPACT! or the WOW factor. This is usually your "first impression" of the photo. This could be anything that "distinguishes the photo" and brings it to your attention. Lets not forget to include the all important "Technique" in your comments, the method the artist used to present the subject. We have all been battling with "Composition" where to place the subject of our photo. And of course we can all jump up and down for "Interest" Many photos are correct in technique, composition, focus and lighting, but are of lousy interest. Dont they call these snapshot photos or boring photos? If everyone were encouraged to use some type of guide to structure their comments, we shouldnt be getting much more of "thats nice, good shot, looks fine. Unless the commentators are just lazy and wish only to make cuddly reviews. Of course this is just my opinion.
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While trying to create good pictures, I feel as if I am standing on the edge of Insanity. There is a door. I found myself knocking on the door. The door opened.. . . I was knocking from the inside. Oh Rats!
I believe Rob's intention is to bring to light a specific pattern that he sees happening - whereby a commenter gives constructive criticism, and then other commenters react to that comment, rather than approaching and leaving a comment from a fresh position of their own after viewing the image.
Seeing a pattern like that could indeed leave someone trying to give good constructive criticism feeling like they were standing in the rain shouting into the wind, while everybody else shouted them down.
There is value in disagreement, but it's also reasonable to say, as he asks, "Support your disagreement please", and not leave it as a nebulous "Dunno what he's talking about, I think it's fine." As a matter of fact, it's a great way to encourage ourselves to clarify our thoughts not just in disagreement, but as part of our initial reaction to an image.
So before anything else... I guess the real question is... does anybody else see this pattern happening? (and 15 people jumping into say that NO it's not happening would actually negatively prove the point, rather than simply not responding to it if you don't see it happening).
Seeing a pattern like that could indeed leave someone trying to give good constructive criticism feeling like they were standing in the rain shouting into the wind, while everybody else shouted them down.
There is value in disagreement, but it's also reasonable to say, as he asks, "Support your disagreement please", and not leave it as a nebulous "Dunno what he's talking about, I think it's fine." As a matter of fact, it's a great way to encourage ourselves to clarify our thoughts not just in disagreement, but as part of our initial reaction to an image.
So before anything else... I guess the real question is... does anybody else see this pattern happening? (and 15 people jumping into say that NO it's not happening would actually negatively prove the point, rather than simply not responding to it if you don't see it happening).
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One man sees things and says "why?" - but I dream things that never were and I say "why not?"
Great discussion topic!
However, I disagree ... with myself in my above statement. :o|
:oD
This moment of levity has been brought to you by yours truly.
... ...
... ...
Ahem, my ususl silliness aside ... here's what I have observed ...
You can't force, nor coerce ... nor try to control people and their actions. Rehashing the same discontents won't change, nor enlighten ... well, ok ... forget the large qualifiers ... most, let's say as a term of middle ground.
The topic and observations as outlined by Rob, reiterated by Cat ... with a good good dose of common sense and a viable solution interjected by Jerry above ... are distilled thusly by moi. Save comment on Jerry's proposal:
People comment as much as they socialize on image pages. Sometimes the balance shifts on any given image's page. 'Cuddlies' seem to be the more operative types and kinds of commentaries given.
However, on that note ... my conscience is clean.
I believe time is a factor.
I believe there is some seasonality to the quality of comments.
In posting a commentary/critique ... I do so for the benefit of the author of the image, who's page I am on at that time.
I neither worry, fret, go back and try to defend my points or perspective ... I move on to the next considered commentary.
That's that ... c'est fini.
Alllll summed up very tidely by this:
Giving an Image Review
The comment area below the caedes.net images is for reviewing the author's image. Much like a review of a restaurant or movie, you are expected to give a balanced reaction to the work. This reaction should be mature, polite, and backed up by details, proof, or examples. The purpose of the review should be to help the author advance in skill by offering your own knowledge and/or talent.
· Do include one or more point that you particularly like about the image.
· Do include one or more points that you don't like.
· Do offer advice on how the image could be improved or how the author's skills could be improved.
· Don't be afraid of hurting someone's feelings. As long as your review is mature and polite most people will love your attention.
· Don't simply state "It's awesome" or "It sucks," such statements without elaboration are useless and waste space on the site. What's awesome to a 3 year old could be awful anyone else. You have to prove that your perspective is worth considering. The best way to do this is to back up your opinions with insightful suggestions for improvement.
· Don't conduct private conversations between someone other than the author of the image. Use the Personal Message service or offtopic discussion forum instead.
The last point, perhaps, being the most germane to this particular discussion.
Unless a framework is provided from which to provide a critique on an image/work ... I believe people will fallback on their natural tendencies and resort to personality.
Jerry, if you ever decide to run for leadership of whatever or whichever your heart or mind desires as a challenge ... you got my vote.
Cat's question:
"does anybody else see this pattern happening?"
Yes.
Rob's question(s):
"Is it a collective reaction to anything less than a shining, cuddly review or critique? Is it a reaction to a certain member?"
Far too awkward Rob. There is no way to answer these two questions.
"So I'm asking.. why?"
Go through past threads. The answer or answers or reasons or rationalizations or excuses or or ... are all there.
"Why not offer your own, separate opinion, instead of simply reacting to one that's already been stated? Further, if an opinion is offered, and you feel so strongly about it, why not offer a reason why, instead of just disagreeing?"
'Because I don't feel comfortable.'
'Because I am not knowledgeable enough.'
Mob mentality? *shrugs*
Perhaps.
Does that really surprise you?
And is it possible, or can you consider ... that in some way, twisted, perverted or otherwise ... that the 'discourse' that happens in these situations you are referring to ... in my mind and humble opinion ... informs me of who's galleries and uploads I would rather watch works of, comment on ... those decisions ... for me ... are made much more easily.
However, I disagree ... with myself in my above statement. :o|
:oD
This moment of levity has been brought to you by yours truly.
... ...
... ...
Ahem, my ususl silliness aside ... here's what I have observed ...
You can't force, nor coerce ... nor try to control people and their actions. Rehashing the same discontents won't change, nor enlighten ... well, ok ... forget the large qualifiers ... most, let's say as a term of middle ground.
The topic and observations as outlined by Rob, reiterated by Cat ... with a good good dose of common sense and a viable solution interjected by Jerry above ... are distilled thusly by moi. Save comment on Jerry's proposal:
People comment as much as they socialize on image pages. Sometimes the balance shifts on any given image's page. 'Cuddlies' seem to be the more operative types and kinds of commentaries given.
However, on that note ... my conscience is clean.
I believe time is a factor.
I believe there is some seasonality to the quality of comments.
In posting a commentary/critique ... I do so for the benefit of the author of the image, who's page I am on at that time.
I neither worry, fret, go back and try to defend my points or perspective ... I move on to the next considered commentary.
That's that ... c'est fini.
Alllll summed up very tidely by this:
Giving an Image Review
The comment area below the caedes.net images is for reviewing the author's image. Much like a review of a restaurant or movie, you are expected to give a balanced reaction to the work. This reaction should be mature, polite, and backed up by details, proof, or examples. The purpose of the review should be to help the author advance in skill by offering your own knowledge and/or talent.
· Do include one or more point that you particularly like about the image.
· Do include one or more points that you don't like.
· Do offer advice on how the image could be improved or how the author's skills could be improved.
· Don't be afraid of hurting someone's feelings. As long as your review is mature and polite most people will love your attention.
· Don't simply state "It's awesome" or "It sucks," such statements without elaboration are useless and waste space on the site. What's awesome to a 3 year old could be awful anyone else. You have to prove that your perspective is worth considering. The best way to do this is to back up your opinions with insightful suggestions for improvement.
· Don't conduct private conversations between someone other than the author of the image. Use the Personal Message service or offtopic discussion forum instead.
The last point, perhaps, being the most germane to this particular discussion.
Unless a framework is provided from which to provide a critique on an image/work ... I believe people will fallback on their natural tendencies and resort to personality.
Jerry, if you ever decide to run for leadership of whatever or whichever your heart or mind desires as a challenge ... you got my vote.
Cat's question:
"does anybody else see this pattern happening?"
Yes.
Rob's question(s):
"Is it a collective reaction to anything less than a shining, cuddly review or critique? Is it a reaction to a certain member?"
Far too awkward Rob. There is no way to answer these two questions.
"So I'm asking.. why?"
Go through past threads. The answer or answers or reasons or rationalizations or excuses or or ... are all there.
"Why not offer your own, separate opinion, instead of simply reacting to one that's already been stated? Further, if an opinion is offered, and you feel so strongly about it, why not offer a reason why, instead of just disagreeing?"
'Because I don't feel comfortable.'
'Because I am not knowledgeable enough.'
Mob mentality? *shrugs*
Perhaps.
Does that really surprise you?
And is it possible, or can you consider ... that in some way, twisted, perverted or otherwise ... that the 'discourse' that happens in these situations you are referring to ... in my mind and humble opinion ... informs me of who's galleries and uploads I would rather watch works of, comment on ... those decisions ... for me ... are made much more easily.
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"One of the virtues of being very young is that you don't let the facts get in the way of your imagination." - Sam Levenson
Go ahead ... I dare ya ... read the above ... punk.
Oooh, I know what you are thinking ... did I use 5,000 words ... or 6,000 words. Are there any left in my vernacular barrels?
Well, do you feel lucky? Do you ... punk??
:oP
/\ It's a joke. It's a joke.
Oooh, I know what you are thinking ... did I use 5,000 words ... or 6,000 words. Are there any left in my vernacular barrels?
Well, do you feel lucky? Do you ... punk??
:oP
/\ It's a joke. It's a joke.
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"One of the virtues of being very young is that you don't let the facts get in the way of your imagination." - Sam Levenson
Pffft. Life-long Eastwood fan here, bucko! :P
Input by all above very much appreciated. Thanks, and keep 'em coming.
Input by all above very much appreciated. Thanks, and keep 'em coming.
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Please, even if you don't visit my gallery, check out my "Faves".I've left them intact since day "1", and would like it if every image there got the attention they deserved.
"And is it possible, or can you consider ... that in some way, twisted, perverted or otherwise ... that the 'discourse' that happens in these situations you are referring to ... in my mind and humble opinion ... informs me of who's galleries and uploads I would rather watch works of, comment on ... those decisions ... for me ... are made much more easily. "
my response in 225 words . . . . .
Les,
I feel that the images watched should be based on the quality of the images rather than the quality of the comments they attract.
If I see an image in New Images that impresses me it would be a shame not to comment on it just because it was the recipient of 'shining cuddly' reviews. Perhaps after all it is a shining image!
Likewise I would not deliberately look for something critical to say about it (critical as in disparaging) OR avoid that artist in the future on that basis. The quality of comments whether they be cuddly, controversial or otherwise should have no bearing on my appreciation of the actual image.
Cuddly pictures get cuddly reviews - by virtue of their cuddliness. Certain types of image are more cuddly than others and it is not too difficult to provide what is seen as such, and an easy trap to be snared by - please the people and get 'feel good' comments or try something different and please yourself.
BUT in my observations the majority of people seem to like cuddly images as desktop wallpaper which is what I thought we were trying to provide.
As I stated in my last post I have not noticed the trend but will take more notice and perhaps I will.
Les, you actually used 726 words !
my response in 225 words . . . . .
Les,
I feel that the images watched should be based on the quality of the images rather than the quality of the comments they attract.
If I see an image in New Images that impresses me it would be a shame not to comment on it just because it was the recipient of 'shining cuddly' reviews. Perhaps after all it is a shining image!
Likewise I would not deliberately look for something critical to say about it (critical as in disparaging) OR avoid that artist in the future on that basis. The quality of comments whether they be cuddly, controversial or otherwise should have no bearing on my appreciation of the actual image.
Cuddly pictures get cuddly reviews - by virtue of their cuddliness. Certain types of image are more cuddly than others and it is not too difficult to provide what is seen as such, and an easy trap to be snared by - please the people and get 'feel good' comments or try something different and please yourself.
BUT in my observations the majority of people seem to like cuddly images as desktop wallpaper which is what I thought we were trying to provide.
As I stated in my last post I have not noticed the trend but will take more notice and perhaps I will.
Les, you actually used 726 words !
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The question is not what you look at, but what you see ~ Marcel Proust
Lyn? If I might, I'd like to offer a clarification, as it appears as though you've misunderstood me somewhat.
I wasn't so much commenting on excessively "cuddly" critiques, or for that matter, images. What I was stating is that should someone buck the trend of comments or critiques by offering anything remotely negative (as in dissenting, not rude) or critical, subsequent critiques would focus just on negating the critical comments, and not offer any new perpectives or opinions.
So then, what I was asking is why does it occur?
Anyone feel like offering some insight into that?
(put your hand down, Les) :p
I wasn't so much commenting on excessively "cuddly" critiques, or for that matter, images. What I was stating is that should someone buck the trend of comments or critiques by offering anything remotely negative (as in dissenting, not rude) or critical, subsequent critiques would focus just on negating the critical comments, and not offer any new perpectives or opinions.
So then, what I was asking is why does it occur?
Anyone feel like offering some insight into that?
(put your hand down, Les) :p
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Please, even if you don't visit my gallery, check out my "Faves".I've left them intact since day "1", and would like it if every image there got the attention they deserved.
No I did not misunderstand - and as I said earlier I have no idea.
I also said I have not noticed it to any great extent - no more than usual. I do see it happen, but not as something new, it seems it always has -Why? - maybe some people just like being contrary.
I agree with what has also been observed that it could be discouraging to those who so offer insightful suggestions - but really, how many go back and check what the reaction is? Any commenter worth their salt should not be put off by a differing viewpoint.
I am sure that I myself have at times responded to a comment previously made - perhaps someone has suggested the focus is a bit soft for example - I may say to me that is part of the image's charm, but hopefully said alongside something other that that issue. That is should not be seen as offensive to the original commenter - just another point of view.
My apologies for going off on a tangent by responding to Les's comment - which I may have misunderstood.
I said my piece in my first post which I thought answered your enquiry so will now bow out.
In a nutshell . .
Is it a collective reaction to anything less than a shining, cuddly review or critique? . . . In my opinion, no.
Why? . . Dont Know
Why not offer your own, separate opinion, instead of simply reacting to one that's already been stated? . . I do, as far as I am able but can not speak for others.
I also said I have not noticed it to any great extent - no more than usual. I do see it happen, but not as something new, it seems it always has -Why? - maybe some people just like being contrary.
I agree with what has also been observed that it could be discouraging to those who so offer insightful suggestions - but really, how many go back and check what the reaction is? Any commenter worth their salt should not be put off by a differing viewpoint.
I am sure that I myself have at times responded to a comment previously made - perhaps someone has suggested the focus is a bit soft for example - I may say to me that is part of the image's charm, but hopefully said alongside something other that that issue. That is should not be seen as offensive to the original commenter - just another point of view.
My apologies for going off on a tangent by responding to Les's comment - which I may have misunderstood.
I said my piece in my first post which I thought answered your enquiry so will now bow out.
In a nutshell . .
Is it a collective reaction to anything less than a shining, cuddly review or critique? . . . In my opinion, no.
Why? . . Dont Know
Why not offer your own, separate opinion, instead of simply reacting to one that's already been stated? . . I do, as far as I am able but can not speak for others.
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The question is not what you look at, but what you see ~ Marcel Proust
*puts down hand ...*
I shall, however, address Lyn's modicum of words. (<--- Just teasing a bit here, Lyn.)
"I feel that the images watched should be based on the quality of the images rather than the quality of the comments they attract."
Of course, Lyn. I agree completely.
I flit about member's image's pages and galleries with little aforethought. And as you say, it is those images that catch my eye ... wherein I do go in for a closer look out of interest. Perhaps, to be inspired as well, learn something new ... consider a different creative approach ... et al.
'In posting a commentary/critique ... I do so for the benefit of the author of the image, who's page I am on at that time.
I neither worry, fret, go back and try to defend my points or perspective ... I move on to the next considered commentary.
That's that ... c'est fini.'
And I shall continue to do so.
However, regarding my own personal gauge and level of derived personal satisfaction ... a bigger bang for my buck of time spent occurs when the 'dialogue' has been more 'meaningful'.
So, a subjective component then on my part ... that I won't spend time explaining away on how that is quantified in my mind, so as to not end up taking this discussion too far off topic. Or, try not to, anyways.
The dividing line then comes up ... comment on image A ... which is well attended by comments ... or ... comment on image B.
B has a better probability of getting the nod more often than not.
And unfortunately, the author of image B has their image's page littered with my 'stuff'.
Just joking a bit, on that note though ... I know enough to know enough that I am far from any considered level of expertise.
I have an opinion at times ... suggestions at others ... praise for sure, as I do do that as well ... balanced, you know? And I try to share what I do know. Doing so reinforces my learning or gives me pause towards self-improvement.
Improvement ... being the operative and final word to my narrow way of thinking at times, I suppose.
@Rob ... It's not a great mystery.
The proffered critiques are more or less a leaping off point for some.
You just saw what happens when you make your statements personal. As I did in some of my above. Some will get defensive, some will be angry ... some will be hurt. Don't personalize this particular 'stuff'.
In my humble opinion ... it's a sure recipe to spend some miserable time here.
I wish I could state a name ... however, I would never do that. In my travels in and around the site ... the aberrations to your general lead-in questions and statements at the beginning of this thread ... do occur. They do. Witnessed them first hand.
Do they happen enough?
Wellll ... in a perfect world ...
I am going to bow out of this discussion now ... lest my appearances/posts dissuade some fresh minds and words from entering the polite fray.
Annnnnd ... done.
I shall, however, address Lyn's modicum of words. (<--- Just teasing a bit here, Lyn.)
"I feel that the images watched should be based on the quality of the images rather than the quality of the comments they attract."
Of course, Lyn. I agree completely.
I flit about member's image's pages and galleries with little aforethought. And as you say, it is those images that catch my eye ... wherein I do go in for a closer look out of interest. Perhaps, to be inspired as well, learn something new ... consider a different creative approach ... et al.
'In posting a commentary/critique ... I do so for the benefit of the author of the image, who's page I am on at that time.
I neither worry, fret, go back and try to defend my points or perspective ... I move on to the next considered commentary.
That's that ... c'est fini.'
And I shall continue to do so.
However, regarding my own personal gauge and level of derived personal satisfaction ... a bigger bang for my buck of time spent occurs when the 'dialogue' has been more 'meaningful'.
So, a subjective component then on my part ... that I won't spend time explaining away on how that is quantified in my mind, so as to not end up taking this discussion too far off topic. Or, try not to, anyways.
The dividing line then comes up ... comment on image A ... which is well attended by comments ... or ... comment on image B.
B has a better probability of getting the nod more often than not.
And unfortunately, the author of image B has their image's page littered with my 'stuff'.
Just joking a bit, on that note though ... I know enough to know enough that I am far from any considered level of expertise.
I have an opinion at times ... suggestions at others ... praise for sure, as I do do that as well ... balanced, you know? And I try to share what I do know. Doing so reinforces my learning or gives me pause towards self-improvement.
Improvement ... being the operative and final word to my narrow way of thinking at times, I suppose.
@Rob ... It's not a great mystery.
The proffered critiques are more or less a leaping off point for some.
You just saw what happens when you make your statements personal. As I did in some of my above. Some will get defensive, some will be angry ... some will be hurt. Don't personalize this particular 'stuff'.
In my humble opinion ... it's a sure recipe to spend some miserable time here.
I wish I could state a name ... however, I would never do that. In my travels in and around the site ... the aberrations to your general lead-in questions and statements at the beginning of this thread ... do occur. They do. Witnessed them first hand.
Do they happen enough?
Wellll ... in a perfect world ...
I am going to bow out of this discussion now ... lest my appearances/posts dissuade some fresh minds and words from entering the polite fray.
Annnnnd ... done.
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"One of the virtues of being very young is that you don't let the facts get in the way of your imagination." - Sam Levenson
i've read this a couple of times. my opinion is a simple one. after the photographs it says "comment". it doesn't specify what kind of comment. so, why not let everyone say what they want to say, when they want to say it. needless to say, i would hope the comment isn't a cruel one. i feel that sometimes i want to simply say "beautiful" and that's my choice.
if the term "comment" was replaced with "constructive critique" i'd no doubt have to adjust my comments.
if the term "comment" was replaced with "constructive critique" i'd no doubt have to adjust my comments.
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sorry if i don't comment on each of your pictures. to those of you who comment so often, i can't imagine how you get it done! i for one am always extremely grateful for the kind comments and suggestions that you make.
Please Visit My Gallery
i think the problem is not the comment as such but the copy and pasting of the same comments for the sake of it. I noticed on a particular series of shots posted by a member recently (not even going to get into the whole naming names issue but im sure they know who they are) that all the images were patronised by the same members and they all posted almost word for word - the same comments. dunno - just seems pointless and disrespectful to me. if you put such such little effort into your praise or critique - what value is there in it. i know, i know, this has been talked about and refuted before but it doesnt go away, stubborn under stain that it is. ignorance is bliss i guess.
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A smart bomb is only as clever as the idiot that tells it what to do
Rob,
We've talked a bit about this between us. Please note that iu am speaking only for myself here. As someone with limited expertise it had been difficult for me to offer critiques, per se. Now, i pull a post (yours or anyones elses) and it is has 15 'great shot' comments in front of me, it is difficult for me to summon the courage, at my experience level to be the voice of dissnet. So i have, in the past, either not commented at all or thrown in my own 'nice post' type comment.
I ma trying to overcome that (as you know first hand, lol)and be more honest in my comments and I have encouraged those who regualrily comment on mine to do the same. I think experiance level, worry about offending someone and mob mentality ALL come into play here.
My usggestion - comment honestly on all posts and if someone takes exception to your doing that, well, I guess you just don't comment on that persona posts anymore.
Again, that is with the expectation that it is done in a contructive way and with an arguement to support your position.
Rich
We've talked a bit about this between us. Please note that iu am speaking only for myself here. As someone with limited expertise it had been difficult for me to offer critiques, per se. Now, i pull a post (yours or anyones elses) and it is has 15 'great shot' comments in front of me, it is difficult for me to summon the courage, at my experience level to be the voice of dissnet. So i have, in the past, either not commented at all or thrown in my own 'nice post' type comment.
I ma trying to overcome that (as you know first hand, lol)and be more honest in my comments and I have encouraged those who regualrily comment on mine to do the same. I think experiance level, worry about offending someone and mob mentality ALL come into play here.
My usggestion - comment honestly on all posts and if someone takes exception to your doing that, well, I guess you just don't comment on that persona posts anymore.
Again, that is with the expectation that it is done in a contructive way and with an arguement to support your position.
Rich
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Experience is what you get when you don't get what you want...
I have to agree with jeenie11 - 'let everyone say what they want to say, when they want to say it' without discouraging folk from commenting at all by finding fault in the way they do it.Some days there is time and inclination to write a mini epic as a comment, other days just a word or two. As long as they are truthful.
It would be a sad day if people stopped commenting because their comments as well as their artistic work is being judged and found lacking.
Phil - images being patronised by the same members is a result of the friends list of course. If more people looked through New Images as well as their own list this may in part be adjusted. Provided they made the effort to leave a comment. The time people have available to spend here impacts on how they use the site, and this can vary from week to week, day to day, as we all know.
It would be a sad day if people stopped commenting because their comments as well as their artistic work is being judged and found lacking.
Phil - images being patronised by the same members is a result of the friends list of course. If more people looked through New Images as well as their own list this may in part be adjusted. Provided they made the effort to leave a comment. The time people have available to spend here impacts on how they use the site, and this can vary from week to week, day to day, as we all know.
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The question is not what you look at, but what you see ~ Marcel Proust
Quoted from the above post....."Now, i pull a post (yours or anyones elses) and it is has 15 'great shot' comments in front of me, it is difficult for me to summon the courage, at my experience level to be the voice of dissent"..............
rich, to me the answer to your quandary is to simply write to rob (or who ever took the picture) in a personal message and suggest and/or critique in any way you want. in that way you are not dissenting from what you said were 15 comments that were the same.
we cannot presume to control the comments and actions of others, so at least be true to yourself. in a personal message only the person on the receiving end will see what you had to say.*************actually, i have no idea to whom phil is referring, but i'm really curious!
rich, to me the answer to your quandary is to simply write to rob (or who ever took the picture) in a personal message and suggest and/or critique in any way you want. in that way you are not dissenting from what you said were 15 comments that were the same.
we cannot presume to control the comments and actions of others, so at least be true to yourself. in a personal message only the person on the receiving end will see what you had to say.*************actually, i have no idea to whom phil is referring, but i'm really curious!
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sorry if i don't comment on each of your pictures. to those of you who comment so often, i can't imagine how you get it done! i for one am always extremely grateful for the kind comments and suggestions that you make.
Please Visit My Gallery
I wasnt going to be involved in this but... Rich you have every right to give your true feelings about a pic, its these kind of comments "Most" want so what if 15 are all sugar and spice, yes it probably is a great shot etc and it is nice to get those comments but seriously if you see something that you feel needs to be said say it, thats the only way people learn.
I don't know about others here this is just my opinion but if someone says to me, too much contrast, too blurry, if you tried this or that I go back to the pic and look for those things 9 times out of 10 i see what they are saying and adjust the pic.. I think its great if I get one comment that actually does say that there is something wrong so i can learn from it.. I've always said *and I'm not looking for an argument here so don't do it ;)that if more people commented with suggestions on the image concerned not only will the artist learn but also others who are looking at the pic.. I for one have learned from other peoples work due to helpful tips and suggestions. I don't understand how people don't want these on the pic and want the suggestions sent via PM's wouldn't it be more helpful for the other members in the community to read the suggestions and maybe help with their work?
I agree with Cat and I have seen it on many images.. all basically the same comment I think that too puts off others who can see something that needs adjusting but won't say anything.. I don't know about others but if I see an image that has all "nice" comments and I see eg too much grain, I start with a positive then make a suggestion on the grain then finish with a positive.. Keeps all parties happy.. lol
As for the quick comments I think time factor is the problem, we all have lives in the real world and sometimes time is the essence.
I don't know about others here this is just my opinion but if someone says to me, too much contrast, too blurry, if you tried this or that I go back to the pic and look for those things 9 times out of 10 i see what they are saying and adjust the pic.. I think its great if I get one comment that actually does say that there is something wrong so i can learn from it.. I've always said *and I'm not looking for an argument here so don't do it ;)that if more people commented with suggestions on the image concerned not only will the artist learn but also others who are looking at the pic.. I for one have learned from other peoples work due to helpful tips and suggestions. I don't understand how people don't want these on the pic and want the suggestions sent via PM's wouldn't it be more helpful for the other members in the community to read the suggestions and maybe help with their work?
I agree with Cat and I have seen it on many images.. all basically the same comment I think that too puts off others who can see something that needs adjusting but won't say anything.. I don't know about others but if I see an image that has all "nice" comments and I see eg too much grain, I start with a positive then make a suggestion on the grain then finish with a positive.. Keeps all parties happy.. lol
As for the quick comments I think time factor is the problem, we all have lives in the real world and sometimes time is the essence.
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MY GALLERY
........... "Live one day at a time and make it a masterpiece"
@jeenie11: I probably should have thrown that in there...I have at times done exactly what you said and PM'd the person in question. And as I grow more comfortable with my own skills, and more comfortable with the site I have become much more honest with my comments and have asked others to do the same.
@ Jacqueline: You were one of the first to welcome me and reworked my very first post New Friends AND sent me a detailed explanation of how you did it and I'll always love you for that. You said that I have every right to say how I feel. I couldn't agree more - but that doesn't mean I have the courage to do it, lol! Again, I was responding to Rob's general question and I do believe that it is almost a peer pressure type of situation..."Gee, everyone els liked it, maybe my reading glasses need a new perscription and it is only blurry to me". I think that for a lot of people it takes a lot of courage to swim upstream.
Rob and I traded a few PM's on this topic a while back and he mentioned that a personalized message nedn't ALWAYS contain a critique, but others will feel better if it is personalized ("gee, the silhouttes on this one are very striking").
In closing let me agree, at least to a point, with LynEve: Much as we would love to have everyone offer honest critiques and tips it isn't going to happen, for a variety of reasons. One of the things that I love about caedes is that it an all-inclusive family and that should be encouraged. Take the "Nice shot" comments with a grain of salt and pay attention to those that do offer constructive criticism.
Rich
@ Jacqueline: You were one of the first to welcome me and reworked my very first post New Friends AND sent me a detailed explanation of how you did it and I'll always love you for that. You said that I have every right to say how I feel. I couldn't agree more - but that doesn't mean I have the courage to do it, lol! Again, I was responding to Rob's general question and I do believe that it is almost a peer pressure type of situation..."Gee, everyone els liked it, maybe my reading glasses need a new perscription and it is only blurry to me". I think that for a lot of people it takes a lot of courage to swim upstream.
Rob and I traded a few PM's on this topic a while back and he mentioned that a personalized message nedn't ALWAYS contain a critique, but others will feel better if it is personalized ("gee, the silhouttes on this one are very striking").
In closing let me agree, at least to a point, with LynEve: Much as we would love to have everyone offer honest critiques and tips it isn't going to happen, for a variety of reasons. One of the things that I love about caedes is that it an all-inclusive family and that should be encouraged. Take the "Nice shot" comments with a grain of salt and pay attention to those that do offer constructive criticism.
Rich
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Experience is what you get when you don't get what you want...
Guys, hold on. I think we need to come back to the original topic a bit.
Rob's post here is *not* about how many people say "nice shot" or "this is wonderful". It's about the person who does take time and effort to leave constructive criticism, and then subsequent posts that respond to that person's comment.
That the pattern he sees is that people do this, and dismiss the person's comment, saying they're wrong about what they said, *and* don't explain in specifics why they think it's wrong. Are just dismissive of it. Which is a very negative reaction to someone who *is* trying to put themselves out there and be helpful.
Now without agreeing or disagreeing that this is happening (because I don't get to go through images as much as I used to), it's also a very closeminded way to view a constructive comment. Because even if you don't agree with it, you don't know what the result is until you play with it. So instead of looking at something and saying "oh that's fine", maybe it's better to stretch the mind and imagination by trying to picture what it would look like with the proffered advice acted upon.
Rob's post here is *not* about how many people say "nice shot" or "this is wonderful". It's about the person who does take time and effort to leave constructive criticism, and then subsequent posts that respond to that person's comment.
That the pattern he sees is that people do this, and dismiss the person's comment, saying they're wrong about what they said, *and* don't explain in specifics why they think it's wrong. Are just dismissive of it. Which is a very negative reaction to someone who *is* trying to put themselves out there and be helpful.
Now without agreeing or disagreeing that this is happening (because I don't get to go through images as much as I used to), it's also a very closeminded way to view a constructive comment. Because even if you don't agree with it, you don't know what the result is until you play with it. So instead of looking at something and saying "oh that's fine", maybe it's better to stretch the mind and imagination by trying to picture what it would look like with the proffered advice acted upon.
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One man sees things and says "why?" - but I dream things that never were and I say "why not?"
Leave it to that sweet feline to pop in out of nowhere and bring us all back to earth. My apologies Rob, I guess I didn't really understand where you were coming from. My own personal bias coming through i guess, as I more often get a bunch of people saying nice post, no constructive critism and a 34 in the VB.
;-)
Rich
;-)
Rich
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Experience is what you get when you don't get what you want...
This is all "Interesting". :-)
Really amazes me that ya'll go to this extreme. I never even payed attention to my "C index"....till I found out what it was. Still...really don't care....
WHAT!!! I got friends, they post Very nice pictures....the ones I like, I comment on. The ones that are "so so", to Me.....I just don't comment on.
Meaning....it might be a "Technically" Perfect photograph. I just don't happen to like it, or the subject.
I comment on stuff I "Like", and "WOW'S me". I don't expect or want any of my "friends" to just comment on my images...Because they are my friends. I like to hear what they LIKE about my particular post...or...what they think would make it better.
Just seems to me, alot of people are really whatchin the "C" index of their images.
That's a problem ya just got to get over.......
I post my creations and Photography here on Caedes...for people to enjoy. Or not. That's all.
I enjoy all comments, and appreciate all I learn from friends here on Caedes. AND...I've learned alot.:-) And Still am!!
THAT's what it's about to me. :-) :-)
I'm just here to share what I make....that "I" think is "Cool". If you think some of my stuff is cool....Thank you.
If you got suggestions to make it better...Please...SPEAK.
"C" index? Not a big thing with me....
Really amazes me that ya'll go to this extreme. I never even payed attention to my "C index"....till I found out what it was. Still...really don't care....
WHAT!!! I got friends, they post Very nice pictures....the ones I like, I comment on. The ones that are "so so", to Me.....I just don't comment on.
Meaning....it might be a "Technically" Perfect photograph. I just don't happen to like it, or the subject.
I comment on stuff I "Like", and "WOW'S me". I don't expect or want any of my "friends" to just comment on my images...Because they are my friends. I like to hear what they LIKE about my particular post...or...what they think would make it better.
Just seems to me, alot of people are really whatchin the "C" index of their images.
That's a problem ya just got to get over.......
I post my creations and Photography here on Caedes...for people to enjoy. Or not. That's all.
I enjoy all comments, and appreciate all I learn from friends here on Caedes. AND...I've learned alot.:-) And Still am!!
THAT's what it's about to me. :-) :-)
I'm just here to share what I make....that "I" think is "Cool". If you think some of my stuff is cool....Thank you.
If you got suggestions to make it better...Please...SPEAK.
"C" index? Not a big thing with me....
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Hi Greg, please read my post above. This thread got pushed off the topic of it's original post. Trying to bring it back on track rather than rehashing the other issue.
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One man sees things and says "why?" - but I dream things that never were and I say "why not?"
Pertaining to Rob's original (and imho,unanswereable question) - I have spent a bit of time looking at comments and will agree to a point with Rob that it happens with some regularity.
However I do not believe that it is some collective reaction or a deliberate disagreement with the opinions expressed - it is just an opinion, nothing more, nothing sinister. Sometimes the disagree-er will qualify their opinion, sometimes not. It is not a punishable offence and although not helping to any great degree, remains harmless.
It seems to me that very often the response to an opinion will follow the same format. If the original commenter says bluntly and without reasons "I dont like the frame" (or whatever) someone else may pop up and say "love that frame" - whereas if the original person says "I think the frame disracts from the image" the reponse may follow suit and give reasons why the other person agrees or thinks thinks not, therby giving the artist some points to ponder rather then just the knowledge that someone liked it and someone else didn't.
It is an interesting discussion but I don't think it is going to prove or disprove anything, or even change the way people do their commenting.
The fact that (so far) only 9 out of Caedes' 1657 members have ventured any opinion on the subject rather proves this, and I doubt that any of them intend to change the way they do things, although it may have made them give some thought to the matter.
It all boils down to the old hot potato - some people (in the opinion of some others) do not, or can not, give constructive critiques.
Fact is they never will, so get used to it :)
:) :)
However I do not believe that it is some collective reaction or a deliberate disagreement with the opinions expressed - it is just an opinion, nothing more, nothing sinister. Sometimes the disagree-er will qualify their opinion, sometimes not. It is not a punishable offence and although not helping to any great degree, remains harmless.
It seems to me that very often the response to an opinion will follow the same format. If the original commenter says bluntly and without reasons "I dont like the frame" (or whatever) someone else may pop up and say "love that frame" - whereas if the original person says "I think the frame disracts from the image" the reponse may follow suit and give reasons why the other person agrees or thinks thinks not, therby giving the artist some points to ponder rather then just the knowledge that someone liked it and someone else didn't.
It is an interesting discussion but I don't think it is going to prove or disprove anything, or even change the way people do their commenting.
The fact that (so far) only 9 out of Caedes' 1657 members have ventured any opinion on the subject rather proves this, and I doubt that any of them intend to change the way they do things, although it may have made them give some thought to the matter.
It all boils down to the old hot potato - some people (in the opinion of some others) do not, or can not, give constructive critiques.
Fact is they never will, so get used to it :)
:) :)
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The question is not what you look at, but what you see ~ Marcel Proust
I would LOVE to get REAL and honest opinions about my work.
BUT.....when I do the LOW/HIGH C-index do not reflect it.
As many of you I have a lot of friends in here and I spend much of my time trying not to repeat myself when I am writing down my opinions. I only have good artist on my frind-list. So sometimes it do happens that I get impressed once or twice in the same day! :-) So how can I, who do not have English as my first language, stop myself from repeting myself? :-)
Some of you really should be getting payed for just uploading your work! Some of you should be getting payed just for logging in at Caedes.net! :-) There are a few good man/women in here that really knows how to make this site a good place to be.
So if I repeat myself, remember that I am beeing honest!! I am just short of words!!
However, we can all take the time to be more accurat at WHAT we like or dislike. After writing 40 messages in one day I do like to rest!!! I know many of you have hundreds of messages to answer every day! Hang in there!
/Helena
BUT.....when I do the LOW/HIGH C-index do not reflect it.
As many of you I have a lot of friends in here and I spend much of my time trying not to repeat myself when I am writing down my opinions. I only have good artist on my frind-list. So sometimes it do happens that I get impressed once or twice in the same day! :-) So how can I, who do not have English as my first language, stop myself from repeting myself? :-)
Some of you really should be getting payed for just uploading your work! Some of you should be getting payed just for logging in at Caedes.net! :-) There are a few good man/women in here that really knows how to make this site a good place to be.
So if I repeat myself, remember that I am beeing honest!! I am just short of words!!
However, we can all take the time to be more accurat at WHAT we like or dislike. After writing 40 messages in one day I do like to rest!!! I know many of you have hundreds of messages to answer every day! Hang in there!
/Helena
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Tiddelipom
Awww nuts! It seems to be happening again..
(bump)
Kindly refrain from directing your comments on a pic.. to previous comments already made, and instead, just express your own, new ideas.
Please?
(bump)
Kindly refrain from directing your comments on a pic.. to previous comments already made, and instead, just express your own, new ideas.
Please?
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Please, even if you don't visit my gallery, check out my "Faves".I've left them intact since day "1", and would like it if every image there got the attention they deserved.
Person X:
Great shot.
Person Y:
Nicely done.
Perzon Z:
Well, such and such needs improvement, or could be different.
Person 1:
Looks fine to me.
Person 2:
Such and such doesn't need improvement.
Person 3:
I like such and such about this image.
Here's the root of what I'm getting at. Is it a collective reaction to anything less than a shining, cuddly review or critique? Is it a reaction to a certain member?
If it were to happen just once or twice, I'd dismiss it as coincidence. It happens, however, with some regularity. So I'm asking.. why?
Why not offer your own, separate opinion, instead of simply reacting to one that's already been stated? Further, if an opinion is offered, and you feel so strongly about it, why not offer a reason why, instead of just disagreeing?
This inquiring mind wants to know...