I made some changes to the Upload and voting booth today. Now, if you wish for your image to appear in the voting booth and get a c-index, you will have to vote on 10 images. This goes for those in the Cadre as well. You do not have to vote on any images in order to upload an image. Your uploaded image will just not be voted on and will not get a c-index. When you view the "step #1" upload page, you will be notified if you have voted enough to allow the image to appear in the voting booth.
This will effectively allow people to decide whether they wish to participate in the voting booth and c-index system.
To me, it's not an issue. I was just wondering what was causing it. Let me see if I have this straight.....The upload limit was compromised by the infusing of additional images at which no authority had been approved, thus causing the system to go haywire and spit out bad information. (I spelled every word right, but I have no idea what I wrote.) LOL.
Les's statement above was actually a quote from me, so I'll do my best to clarify. There are two situations that can cause the odd (you need to vote on 13 (or so) images" error.
1. If you lose your Cadre status after uploading two images the system will say "he's uploaded 2 images but he should only have uploaded 1 so I'm gonna make him pay".
2. If you upload an image and then delete it before it has been approved, you'll be able to upload another image right away. However due to the odd way that we do the image approval, the image can be accidently un-deleted by a Senate member. This would effectively have you with two uploaded images (or three) while your official limit was lower.
We can fix both of these with a single change, but I'd prefer to not do it too hastily. I'll be giving it some thought though.
If you recall, Cindy ... the other day ... you were sans ':' ('non-Cadre', for lack of a better term) for a portion of the day. (Perhaps, you didn't notice?)
And I suspect that this timeframe is quite relevant to what you encountered and now bearing in mind *caedes' elaboration in his above post.
So... it would appear that you 'fell between the cracks' of the site's system for a short duration.
Not correct, Les. I know I was non-Cadre the other day, but that 'odd' thing happened to me several weeks earlier. Must have been something else, but similar. I think we can live with it if it only happens under special circumstances. Won't hurt me to vote on a few more images anyway. Just was a tad puzzling at the time.
Thanks for letting us know that you were/are aware that it does happen.
Just happened to me again, just now. Uploaded w/o voting and it won't go. Voted on 10 images, re-uploaded pic, UNCHECKED the "put in voting booth box" and still nothing...went back and rechecked the "put in voting booth box" and BINGO!! Just a FYI.
I haven't deleted a new upload in a long time, and I STILL have to vote 20 or more times with every picture, before it will be voted on. Once it was 23 times, then 14, but most of the times it's 20. It has been just 10 in a long time.
I didn't vote on any and tried to upload and it didn't work.
I then voted on 10 images.
I re-uploaded my pic (of Mimi & my wifey) and UNCHECKED the box "put in voting booth"...cause I didn't want it in the voting booth and it again didn't work.
I then re-uploaded my pic and said "sure...put it in the voting booth" and it uploaded just fine.
per you "It looks like you only voted 10 times to upload the image today, and it qualified for the voting booth."
I did vote on 10 images and it did qualify my upload for the voting booth...you are correct.
However...I wish to upload images without having to vote on other images in understanding that my upload would receive no c-index which is fine by me. Why would I upload a gorgeous flora shot and require no c-index / voting...then upload Mimi & my wife and want people to vote on it?? It's in the community gallery which shouldn't even get a c-index. I'm just sharin' our good times and not lOOkin' for critiques or nuttin'.
Yes, I will elaborate. I wrote that comment before I tried voting today. Much to my surprise, I only needed to vote 10 times. My first reaction was...Wow, you sure corrected that fast. It figures, that just after making a comment about the number of times I have to vote, I wind up having to vote the correct number of times....anyway, it's OK with me that I have to vote more...I should vote the max anyways. Just thought I would let you know what was going on. Thanks.
Sorry for the confusion, I was asking about Jimbo's issue. I will keep monitoring this, because it doesn't seem to be making much sense to me at the moment.
Hottrockin: I found your problem, but I'm not sure what is causing it. If it happens again, PM me and I'll check it out. I added some diagnostic monitoring stuff that may help me figure it out.
Personally I think Caedes has gone way out of hand on this voting crap...they already have their picks on who gets high ratings! Things were great the way they were when I came on this site 5 or 6 years ago. (That's when Joost and alot of others were around). This is just my point of view!
Yes, tonight I had to vote on 18 images to upload one. I am not sure why that is, but I guess that is what you are trying to fix. I voted on 25 images or so yesterday and only uploaded one image, but that was my choice. Don't know if that has anything to do with it.
Terry is from the era when Joost and his merry band of cohorts corrupted the voting system for their own childish satisfaction ... thus condemning us to a steady stream of joost-a-likes, jousting for justification amongst an internet community he is not welcome in ... oddly, for all of his claimed educated sophistication and breeding ... this concept is lost on him
... stick THAT in your rural pipe and smoke it, toetsie
I wanted to upload just now, but it say I have 18 images to vote on before my image will be eligible to be voted on. I think I will wait till morning just to see what happens. I voted already today on at least 40 images.
Ok, I've tried to figure out what the problem is, but I've been unsuccessful so far. Therefore, I'm going to change the way it works. More info as I figure it all out.
Well, I just now went to the VB and voted on 10 postings, I came back to post my photo after that and that little "machine" wants ONE more !! Sheeeeeeesh!! Enuff already!!:(
Sometimes you just need to refresh the upload page and it will update the number of images you need to vote on. ;) For me it is not a problem at all - I will not just vote on 10 to upload an image - if I go into vote then I will most likely vote on 20-40 anyway - I enjoying viewing images I would otherwise have missed.
..thanking you in advance for your comments. Please know that all your comments are appreciated....." Live well, love much, laugh often!" .... mygallery
I wonder if this issue is just happening to "members" or to everybody. As for me, I have no troubles. I don't upload everyday and when I do, all I need is ten then it will work. After my upload, I usually go back and continue voting, but the "10" image issue has never been a problem for me.....But I'm not a "Member" who can upload 2 images. Just wondering if it looks at that and says you need to vote more or not....Just a random thought.....Which I am bad at.....I am also bad about rambling on and on.....Can you tell?
I've had it happen several times. The other day I uploaded my 1st pic just fine (no voting), then when I went to upload pic #2 it wouldn't take till I voted on at least 10 images.
..thanking you in advance for your comments. Please know that all your comments are appreciated....." Live well, love much, laugh often!" .... mygallery
Here's a new twist to this matter. Yesterday, I uploaded an image, only to be unsatisfied with it. I deleted it, fixed the problem and reposted it. This morning, when clicking on "Upload Images," I am required to vote on 30 images before mine will be eligible for voting. It's like your computer system is expecting me to upload three images today. No doubt that my deleting an image after uploading it has something to do with this, I don't pretend to understand it. I just thought you might want to know about it. Still, I don't want to sound like I am complaining, because I don't mind voting, and rather enjoy it, and take it seriously. Have a great day.
rule #1: .. we don't talk about vote club
rule #2: .. we don't talk about vote club
rule #3: .. if this is your first visit to vote club, you must claim to enjoy it
How did I miss THAT!! The title to the thread is misspelled!! It’s not spelled “M o d i f i c a t i o n”, its spelled “M a l f u n c t i o n”!! There, hope that helps clear the air!!
In all this time since the modifications were made I have not had any problem. However I always vote on the max number of images before uploading. I only mention it to possibly be of some help in finding the bug.
"Well," said Pooh, "what I like best," and then he had to stop and think. Because although Eating Honey was a very good thing to do, there was a moment just before you began to eat it which was better than when you were, but he didn't know what it was called. ~A.A. Milne
Please, even if you don't visit my gallery, check out my "Faves".I've left them intact since day "1", and would like it if every image there got the attention they deserved.
Please, even if you don't visit my gallery, check out my "Faves".I've left them intact since day "1", and would like it if every image there got the attention they deserved.
This is odd and annoying at the same time. I uploaded an image that had a flaw and immediately deleted it. I was told it was deleted. Then I uploaded it again after fixing it and there were about six comments on it. When I went back to it another time, there were two comments and it was the first image that I had uploaded and deleted and the second image was gone!!! What's with that?
Jerome directed me to the same discussion in the problems thread. I was confused...since occasionally there may be older images. Now they are the majority.
I have also noticed that my new images have not really been voted on I have two, from Aug. 3or4th that have 6 votes each and every photo after that is even less...Is anybody have the same problem?
OK, I just went to the VB and got to vote on a photo from 03'. I wanted to make a comment and found out it was ppigeon AKA;Pierre. I did leave a comment and told him I got to Vote for is photo today! LOL It was beautiful.
I have a newer image in my gallery that has been voted on 37 times and my most recent images have gone 3-4 days with just a couple of votes. Maybe Geri is experimenting? Maybe it's a way for old images to make their way to the front to be seen again? Not a bad idea, but no one on the administrative side has said why this change has taken place.
Hehe... Thanks for the comment Laura ;-)
I try an explanation:
I think that the last modification (possibility to upload "without" the c-index) gives many more votes to the new images "with c-index".
Maybe the system gives the priority of the votes on the new images, but when the number of votes is sufficient, the systeme begins to fish into the old images...
Probably the system "thinks" that the number of votes is sufficient when this number is higher than 5.
If it's correct, I think this number should be ugraded at 10, at least...
This didn't happen after the new modification to upload without an index. It seems to have started within the last week. Correct me if that is not right, someone. I have images that are 4 days old with 4 and 5 votes at this time whereas in the past, there would have been voted on more times than that. If this is happening to everyone and we are getting a 70% showing of old images in the VB, using LynEve's figure, then it doesn't somehow seem right. Could it be a recent glitch?
Most of the older images have a max of 20 votes if they even got close to that. The new images under the new system have in general been getting over 30. This is a wider sampling of opinion and one of the main criticisms of the VB and the c-index has been the scarcity of votes. Allowing the older images to achieve the newer plateau means the c-index will have the same "meaning" throughout the site, so it's a necessary thing.
I'd be willing to bet that it will even out shortly and the balance will be restored. If you want to hurry it up, go vote more! *wink*
I rather like it as well. I like getting to vote on some of the golden oldies! I wonder if it might 'mix it up' a bit in the wallpaper search? I have the impression the top hits tend to be the ones with the highest c-index... which could mean the search results in some categories don't change very much?
Every time there is a change to the voting system people seem to get their knickers in a twist without really giving it a chance first... Perhaps we should give it a few weeks of fine tuning/self adjustment before deciding it is a bad thing.
We will only be getting the old ones for a short amount of time. Eventually, there will only tend to be new images in the voting booth. This is because the longer an image is around, the more votes it will get, and we choose images for the voting booth based in part on how many votes they have.
There are two other threads on the same issue where knicker twisting was taking place. My note wasnt targeted at anyone in particular. I just remember exactly the same duscussions taking place about old images last time tge voting process was changed, even after Geri explained why it was happening and that tge system would self adjust. Hopefully thus time around people will be more patient.
I have been getting older images to vote on a lot more, recently. The only thing that concerns me about this, is that when this happens, the newer images get less votes, or take longer to get the required votes to be eligible for a C-I. I have had two images that were stuck on 8 and 9 votes, and got archived before getting the C-I. I look forward to the C-I on each and every image I post, whether it be high or low. How can I be assured that this won't happen again?
Well, I just discovered that it happened again in the VB. Maybe they are removing indices from images that have been archived? Then why vote on them again?
why do you need answers for everything - is it really so hard to imagine that there wont be any issues when systems change? is it really so hard to flag any issues in the appropriate forum for them rather than here so they can be recognized and addressed quickly?
I know that it will get better in terms of evening out because I've been here long enough to watch this process happen twice when previous rounds of changes were made to the voting system.
However, any time there's a change, it's a pretty good idea to give it a few months for it to stabilize and take effect, that's part of the nature of change - it doesn't all quickly settle into place Presto! new status quo instantly established. So that's more an outlook to develop towards shrugging off the temporary inconveniences that occur during a growing pains period. And even after a couple of months there will still be the occasional hiccup.
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Phil does have a real point about where questions are asked. This place functions best when it's organized, and stuff is easily findable or addressed in the right forums/process.
*caedes may have erred in placing this thread here, since it's about how the site operates, it probably should have gone into "Non-Art Website Issues" which is the best place to ask questions about why something happens, and debate the pros and cons of the current handling of site functions.
If you have a problem with an image, the best thing to do is notify your nearest friendly mod and ask for help. That's because it may be a one-off kind of problem which only a mod can answer/help with, and the site in general doesn't need to know about it.
If you have a repeated problem with something, the best place to post that is the "Feature Bloat/Bug Squash" forum.
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There are a couple of reasons for voting on older images.
1) The culture of the site and trends in art and developments in technology can shift opinions of older works. The c-index as much as possible should reflect the *current* viewpoint of users of the site. The only way to do that is to include them in the voting booth.
2) One of the problems with the voting booth before was a lack of voters, which led to c-indexes being generated from a smaller sampling of votes then images are now receiving. So in order for the c-index to be a usable, reliable guide for visitors and artists, that imbalance needs to be corrected between the older and newer images. The c-index has to mean the same thing (in general) across all the images on the site, or it means nothing and is an unreliable way to gauge the evaluation of a particular work. Then it becomes a guide of who voted that day, or during those months, etc.
And now I must go back to work before I get caught being responsible about the wrong job today... hope this clears up all your questions.
Thank you, CAT! What a thorough and comprehensible response and I and others, I'm sure, truly appreciate the time and effort you spent clarifying several items that we had concerns about. You have been most friendly, courteous and helpful. It isn't always easy to discern which category something belongs in when
giving voice to a question and since the heading of this thread seemed appropriate, that is where the question was raised.
I was not aware that the new voting system was still in its trial period since this thread started seven months ago.
As regular old members of the community, we are grateful for your response and your respect. Cindy
I believe it was a 2 step process (reference to this has been made elsewhere, I don't have time to look for it right now) where once it was established that the booth was functioning as desired, the images in the perms were given priority for a brief time in order to let them catch up with the newer images so that all images would have the same approximate number of votes, and that 2nd step occurred a couple of mths ago.
LOL. I scrolled up here and came across it by accident.
From *caedes on 8/10/09:
"We will only be getting the old ones for a short amount of time. Eventually, there will only tend to be new images in the voting booth. This is because the longer an image is around, the more votes it will get, and we choose images for the voting booth based in part on how many votes they have."
Update: There was also a glitch that resulted in images that were uploaded for a couple of days at the end of August not receiving votes, or receiving very few votes. So if the images that got archived and were "stuck" on a low number of votes were uploaded then they probably were part of that glitch.
Check out the site "Between Truths", read, learn and pass on. The three steps is all you need to remember to get started. =)
http://www.freewebs.com/intween/
Sooo ... It's been 20 months now. What was the fallout been like? Are there any statistics on how many people take part in the voting now? Or how much the number/percentage of people participating has changed in the last year and a half?
There are few situations in life that cannot be honourably settled, and without any loss of time, either by suicide, a bag of gold, or by thrusting a despised antagonist over the edge of a precipice on a dark night.
-- Kai Lung
There are few situations in life that cannot be honourably settled, and without any loss of time, either by suicide, a bag of gold, or by thrusting a despised antagonist over the edge of a precipice on a dark night.
-- Kai Lung
This will effectively allow people to decide whether they wish to participate in the voting booth and c-index system.