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Discussion Board -> Member-Initiated Projects -> The voting booth

The voting booth

::biffobear
08/05/11 4:21 PM GMT
Is there anyway we can get rid of the voting booth..I have had a number of my friends asking me why do people give a 0ne or a zero to a perfectly good image..I wouldn't dream of giving such a mark,It's totally degrading.Better to not vote at all..It is my belief whoever does this,Does it in the hope that their image will get a higher ranking..I know for a fact,Certain members do not view fullscreen,Only waiting for the page header to load,Then closing it before the full image appears in order to get their own into the voting booth..Is there any way of stopping this?..At first I was an advocate of the voting booth,Now owing to it's misuse,I'm not..Many members have voiced discontent at the system and now I have included mine....Richie.
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I can smell the sunlight on your skin. Listen to them. Children of the night. What music they make!

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::corngrowth
08/05/11 5:43 PM GMT
An ostrich put its head in the sand when there are problems. If we could ask the ostrich for this behaviour, think we can expect an answer like this: "As soon as I've put my head into the sand the problems have disappeared." When reading the by LynEve started thread (discussion board/request for comment/variations) I see a rather similiar, so problems ignoring, behaviour from some Caedes friends. Continuing to deny the problem rather than tackling was my reason for not participating in this discussion. See however above that Richie (biffobear) has now become a 'victim' too.

Because my sincere opinion is that when an image is approved by a mod, a zero or one doesn't justice at all to someone's work, I've finaly decided to give once my opion on that. Will try to explain this 'statement':

To avoid that Caedes becomes contaminated with bad photos, snapshots, or other rubbish, a contribution to the site must first be approved by a Mod: a kind of Quality Control. If a mod does his job well (let me make clear that I don't have any doubts about it), a picture can in fact not be rated with a zero or one. If this still happens then this is a proof that either the Voting Booth system is malfunctioning/has shortcomings or the voter has impure intentions.
Logically there remain two possibilities: either Caedes won't use any longer the Mod Approval System and accept at the same time that the site devalues ​​including allowing ones and zeros, or Caedes keeps using the Mod Approval System but don't accept any longer the zeros and ones given by anonymus, spiteful and frustrated voters.

Cornelius
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::coram9
08/05/11 6:33 PM GMT
first point, you have to view the image full screen in the voting booth.

second point. The presence of zero votes has been discussed time and time again, and was subject last week to a very long thread, which you must have missed. Link Here

In summary I showed why these zero votes happen quite naturally, and without malice, just by using some common sense and a bit of statistics. And even uploaded some images and scores to show my rationale.

I hope this helps.
0∈ [?]
"There are no rules for good photographs, there are only good photographs." Ansel Adams - Gallery - Web Site - follow me on Twitter.
::biffobear
08/05/11 7:26 PM GMT
Wrong,You do NOT have to view full screen.Click on the small thumbnail in the voting booth allow the page header to load,Close before the big picture arrives and you can place your vote....Try it and see...I suspect your zero voters use this tactic...
0∈ [?]
I can smell the sunlight on your skin. Listen to them. Children of the night. What music they make!
::coram9
08/05/11 8:35 PM GMT
I suspect, in fact am sure that my zero voters simply do not like my images, since they are usually accompanies but votes of 1,2 and 3's. Sometimes I get votes across the board, from 0 to 10. As I said above, this has just been discussed endlessly, and I recommend you read the thread.

this link helps explain some voting patterns that generate 0's quite reasonably.
0∈ [?]
"There are no rules for good photographs, there are only good photographs." Ansel Adams - Gallery - Web Site - follow me on Twitter.
::biffobear
08/05/11 8:53 PM GMT
I have read the thread.A lot of it went off on a tangent.A bit too much for a simpleton like me,A simple answer to lyn would have done..After all,she only asked if it had happened to anyone else..She was somewhat taken aback by the Jargon and Gobbledegook in some of the replies....I myself have had a zero..My point and the point I'm trying to get over,Is that I have had Many PMs from friends stating they have had zeros,It bothers them.It's not an "I'm" bothered thing but a "we" are bothered thing.Especially when the images are worth far more than ziltch..To me and others a zero is an insult,better no vote at all.
0∈ [?]
I can smell the sunlight on your skin. Listen to them. Children of the night. What music they make!
.cynlee
08/05/11 10:00 PM GMT
There are a lot of blue faces walking around this site, the ones who are blue in the face for asking this same question. We are told that zeros are thrown out of the mix based on a voter's historical voting pattern. What is puzzling is that so many of us agree that we hardly if ever give anyone a zero in the VB, so what explains the continued rise in frequency of these cast zero votes?

It has been explained that a visitor can vote and cast a zero (mimi) and it has been suggested that we should no longer have access to the vote tallies on our images (Les). The frequency doesn't seem to be justified by the occasional visitor choosing to use the VB and hiding the vote tallies doesn't alter the fact that this is going on and to a greater degree because on checking my images of several years back, I find it rare to have received zeros votes though they did occur than the number I and others receive now.

We are told the algorithm was in place back then too. So, as more zero votes are cast, the algorithm throws out more votes and there you have it. Only the votes that 'count' enter your score.

It is demoralizing to all and so we may choose to opt out of the VB all together. Maybe that is the answer. If many of us chose that option, the highest voted images in the galleries would tend to fall lower and lower over time and all the good images would be on the last pages. Kind of a reversal I suppose.
Just a thought. Don't throw pitch forks as Les would warn.
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LYTRO. The new light field photography. Refocus your shots AFTER you have taken them. Just click on the word LYTRO. See a VIDEO HERE.
::coram9
08/05/11 10:18 PM GMT
If someone was really going through and voting 0 a lot then all images would have 0 votes. They do not. If someone was doing that, then I would hope that Caedes could easily tell who it was and ban them. Given the grief this causes I should hope that this would happen. If it has, and it might have, then what we are left with is the odd zero vote for whatever reason.

So someone does not like your image. So what? It does not mean your image is worthless, just that one person does not like it. I have images with 2 or 3 zero votes. Are my images so worthless? Do I care? No.

The point really is, do your images get a fair overall score? As has been pointed out, some lazy people may just vote, say, 7 all the time, and no one would know or complain. That vote is as meaningless as a zero, and still gets corrected by the system, as I understand it.
1∈ [?]
"There are no rules for good photographs, there are only good photographs." Ansel Adams - Gallery - Web Site - follow me on Twitter.
.cynlee
08/05/11 10:24 PM GMT
With all these corrections by the system, how do we possibly know anything? Zeros are thrown out, tens are thrown out, now sevens are thrown out! Not everyone gets zeros because not every image is exposed to these zero voters. Their acquaintance with the images is as random as their zero votes and thank goodness, they only get to vote on 40 a day.
0∈ [?]
LYTRO. The new light field photography. Refocus your shots AFTER you have taken them. Just click on the word LYTRO. See a VIDEO HERE.
::coram9
08/05/11 10:55 PM GMT
If you think about it, not many more than 40 images are put up every day. There were 42 when I looked just now. So, if someone was deliberately voting 0 they could cover pretty much every image, probably more so since not all images are placed in the VB. You seem to think that there are more than one of these people. If so, then every image would be getting a 0, and more than one.

The facts do not seem to support any of your accusations. I have been over the last 20 of my images and I can find no evidence of malicious zero voting. I have zero votes, but I have 1,2 3,4, etc votes. The 0 votes are usually associated with images with a wide range of votes anyway, and usually associated with a 1 or a 2 as well.

I do not know how you specific votes are showing up. I tried to explain with the use of some fairly simple statistics, sorry if you could not keep up.

This site, unlike most, has, from what I have gleaned from the threads, a sophisticated system that normalises voting patterns and applies statistical techniques to the votes to get the best possible fair score at the end of her process.

When you ask the question how do we know anything, you are right to some extent. Explanations in the past have not been understood by some, and even if you did understand you would intact not know how your votes are counted by the system. There is a reason for that, it stops people abusing the system, and should for that reason be kept secret.

It really is best to just accept the system for what it is, or opt out as you see fit.
1∈ [?]
"There are no rules for good photographs, there are only good photographs." Ansel Adams - Gallery - Web Site - follow me on Twitter.
::biffobear
08/05/11 11:09 PM GMT
"sorry if you could not keep up",Is this aimed at me or Cindy.Whoever it's aimed at,Are you suggesting that either of us are thick..Have we not the right to ask a straighforward question and expect an informed answer without being subjected to innuendos..Please refrain from talking down to people.
0∈ [?]
I can smell the sunlight on your skin. Listen to them. Children of the night. What music they make!
::coram9
08/05/11 11:16 PM GMT
No, I was criticising myself for not delivering a clear explanation.
0∈ [?]
"There are no rules for good photographs, there are only good photographs." Ansel Adams - Gallery - Web Site - follow me on Twitter.
::biffobear
08/05/11 11:17 PM GMT
OK My apologies
0∈ [?]
I can smell the sunlight on your skin. Listen to them. Children of the night. What music they make!
::coram9
08/05/11 11:25 PM GMT
No problem. I could have worded it better.
0∈ [?]
"There are no rules for good photographs, there are only good photographs." Ansel Adams - Gallery - Web Site - follow me on Twitter.
.cynlee
08/05/11 11:46 PM GMT
People are already abusing the system simply by voting zeros all over. I guess it is Caedes diplomatic way of dealing with the miscreants without actually getting rid of them because they would just come back anyway.
1∈ [?]
LYTRO. The new light field photography. Refocus your shots AFTER you have taken them. Just click on the word LYTRO. See a VIDEO HERE.
::zunazet
08/06/11 4:37 AM GMT
Yes. Exactly!
0∈ [?]
People aren't going to remember the things you do. They're going to remember how you made people feel. Be kind, gracious, and appreciative. Dan Winters - Photographer.
::coram9
08/06/11 8:46 AM GMT
"People are already abusing the system simply by voting zeros all over. I guess it is Caedes diplomatic way of dealing with the miscreants without actually getting rid of them because they would just come back anyway."

Please produce evidence for this very wide-ranging accusation. The fact that images get a zero vote does not mean that your statement is true. Either produce proof or stop making false allegations. I think the American expression is "put up or shut up".

There may be people abusing the system, but I do not think it manifests itself in a constant stream of zeros. Even if it does, as has been said so many times before, it does not matter. The VB takes care of such issues anyway. Yes it is Caedes way of coping with the situation and yes it does mitigate the effect of people voting in this way.

However, I would put one more piece of evidence forward for the defence. There is a list of the top 100 most active members on this site. One of the criteria for getting on the list is the amount of votes you cast. If someone was maliciously voting lots of times to get zeros on as many images as possible, then that would most likely appear in this list. Have a look at the names. By making these accusations you are most likely accusing one of these people. Since most of the big voters are well known members, who is your money on?

And one final piece of information. I have handed out several 0 votes in the past week, so some of them may have come from me!
5∈ [?]
"There are no rules for good photographs, there are only good photographs." Ansel Adams - Gallery - Web Site - follow me on Twitter.
+purmusic
08/06/11 9:05 AM GMT
@ Cornelius:

Re: Image approval.

The only images that will not be approved, are those that contravene the Caedes.net Code of Conduct.

Meaning; pornography, gratuitous imagery of animal copulation, copyright infringed works/images, screenshots from pc games ... and there are other considerations. But, these are the main ones to keep it short here.


Everything else, no matter how 'bad' (interpret the meaning of 'bad' as you see fit).. gets approved.

So..

There is no 'Quality Control', per se.

____________________________________________________________


And here's a thought..

These infidels that vote zeros unconscionably (and which are taken care of by the system in discounting them/throwing them in final calculations of C-Indices).. well, they click/open site pages, do they not?

Guess what?

By being here, for nefarious purposes or otherwise ... and visiting pages, these miscreants generate revenue for the site.

So..

In..the..end..the..joke..is..on.. ... them.

And 'you' (speaking generally here), in turn and in a way, took one for the team.


Can 'you' get over the feelings/emotions attached to these zeros?

Can 'you' place some confidence in that the system is taking care of them, and in the end ... although, not always ('cause the system is not perfect) ... usually get a 'fair enough' C-Index/score?

Can 'you' accept that devoting time to hunting them down and banning them from the site is a fruitless and futile expenditure of time? ('Cause all they have to do is create another member account and show up once more. And banning by IP addresses is not really an option.)


This is a pubic site.

The administration does it's best to keep it fun and as fair as possible for all.


'You' have a place to post your art/images/work (for free).

'You' have a place to socialize/make friends/share tips, techniques, et al (for free).


Being all that, it comes with a price of sorts.

That being, every now and then, someone will sneak in under the radar ... make some waves in whatever way or fashion ... till they are found out and dealt with accordingly and appropriately.


Pretty good good deal in my mind.

Where do I sign up?
2∈ [?]
::biffobear
08/06/11 9:12 AM GMT
Let's get back to basics,Do away with the VB,It really serves no real purpose..My initial post about those that vote zero,should maybe not vote at all,If I were to vote zero,It would be for a blank white featureless upload..I'd probably give a one to a black featureless upload,One for use of colour..Most of us go out take a few pictures,Scurry back home,Do a little editing and upload are masterpiece.Then Joe Bloggs comes along and plonks a Zero on it..Anyone with any feeling must feel a little peeved and say to themselves..."Now I wonder why they did that",It would be nice to have a system that was able to show the people that vote.Then one could ask what people liked or disliked about you offering.If you got a high mark one could say,"What did you find about the image so compelling to give it an eight or ten", or whatever.You could equally ask what they found so uninspiring about your pic that they gave it a zero...R.
5∈ [?]
I can smell the sunlight on your skin. Listen to them. Children of the night. What music they make!
+purmusic
08/06/11 10:32 AM GMT
I am not trying to sound clever here..

As already mentioned here on this discussion thread and elsewhere, if it bothers 'you' that much ... opt out of the Voting Booth.


I don't see the point of removing it altogether, when some still want it and continue to use it.

And serves as a means (one of) for visitors to sort the various galleries (a function which exists in some shape or form on near every other site).
1∈ [?]
::biffobear
08/06/11 10:38 AM GMT
Let those that want it use it..I'm done...
7∈ [?]
I can smell the sunlight on your skin. Listen to them. Children of the night. What music they make!
::coram9
08/06/11 11:09 AM GMT
"Let's get back to basics,Do away with the VB,It really serves no real purpose."

Personally I find it most useful.

"Most of us go out take a few pictures,Scurry back home,Do a little editing and upload are masterpiece.Then Joe Bloggs comes along and plonks a Zero on it."

Perhaps the error lies in feeling that any and all such images are worth more than a zero. Many such postings have obviously missed out the "do a little editing". I know sites where many of the images posted here would not even get accepted because the standard of that site is rather higher than here. As Les says, "Everything else, no matter how 'bad' (interpret the meaning of 'bad' as you see fit), gets approved."

I think this approach, the openness of Caedes, has led a lot of people to overrate their own art. I certainly have lapsed into that way of thinking. This is not helped by some rather mediocre images getting 20+ comments along the lines of "how wonderful" the image is, when clearly there are some significant flaws to it.

Several people have said things like "I would never give a 0 vote", or even Richie's own criteria of ".I'd probably give a one to a black featureless upload". Personally I have a much higher expectation for high votes, based on the best images I see on sites such as Red Bubble, or even Desktop Nexus. And consequentially give a lot more low votes.

Just because someone's inclination is to post lots of photos of things they have seen and expect others to enjoy them as much as they do, does not mean that others do so. There are some very good artists on this site and I expect that some of them vote quite harshly.

Perhaps I have a different view point. My images often garner a lot of low votes (3,2,1 & 0). Even the more recent ones. I do not feel that this is malicious. I cannot be, there is a consensus of opinion about the voting in some cases that I try to understand, even if I do not agree with it. Understanding voting patterns helps me grow as a person, but then I have got over seeing zero votes on my images and look on these not as 'they must be malicious because I am so good' but as a means of telling me which images work and which ones do not.

Interestingly none of what I consider my worst images (which scored quite high in the VB) get low or zero votes. Only those that I feel worthy of something get them, but they usually gets low score too, so it is to be expected that occasionally I get a zero.

I do get far more 5's than 0's. I do wonder if a lot of people just vote in the middle because they cannot be bothered. But no one else seems to get het up over this.

2∈ [?]
"There are no rules for good photographs, there are only good photographs." Ansel Adams - Gallery - Web Site - follow me on Twitter.
::biffobear
08/06/11 11:14 AM GMT
I'm done here.
0∈ [?]
I can smell the sunlight on your skin. Listen to them. Children of the night. What music they make!
::corngrowth
08/06/11 11:44 AM GMT
Thanks Les, for your clear explanation.
I agree with you that Caedes is a wonderful site, and I'm proud to be a member of it. But we can not deny that rogue voters try to destroy - with whatever purpose they may have - this wonderful site.
I realize that it's very hard to get rid of these spiteful and frustrated voters, but this don't take away my anger for receiving anonymous ones and zeros whether they are counted for the C-index or not. Therefore I understand very well the frustrations of friends who receive repeatedly undeserved zeros and ones too, like Cyndi, Lyn, Richie, and so on. Think that Chris is the only one who has no problems by accepting this phenomenon, probably because he has found a certain way to explain this behavior.
I have to be honest as well: I can't offer a proper and short term solution in order to terminate this endless discussion.
Recently you have told us, in equal words, that there is still an adequate supply of new pictures. The reality is that in practice many friends are using the opportunity to keep their submission deliberately out of the VB. I infer this because I regularly receive "There are no images to vote on" messages, while I'm voting, which didn't happen in the past at all. This in itself justifies to think seriously about the usefulness and necessity of the VB.
Previously, the C index provided a way to assist the MOD's with the determination of certain choices, but since the introduction of, for example, the 'Art Coucil', a C-index system may be far less needed.

Cornelius.
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::coram9
08/06/11 12:05 AM GMT
There are only about 40 images loaded up in a day. If you want to vote more than 40 times you will have to get more people to upload images, as well as get them into the voting booth. That is why you have no images to vote on, no other reason.

Even if you are correct about rogue voters, and as I said before, no one has produced any coherent proof of such activities, it is merely the reaction of some people to getting the odd 0 vote that causes so much distress. You are not a victim of victimisation by getting a 0 vote. How many non zero votes do you get? We do need to keep this whole thing in some sort of perspective. On my images 1 vote in about 100 is a zero. Yes it hurts, but so what? It is not a big issue, and I wish that people would grow up a little and stop banging on about it.

0∈ [?]
"There are no rules for good photographs, there are only good photographs." Ansel Adams - Gallery - Web Site - follow me on Twitter.
::corngrowth
08/06/11 12:53 AM GMT
---It is not a big issue, and I wish that people would grow up a little and stop banging on about it---

If this is meant for me: thanks Chris (coram9 and crysophilax)
for taking the freedom to qualify me as a child. Think now that you're the only adult on this site. If you are tired of this discussion, I don't understand however why you continue taking part in this thread. Like to to say as well that you didn't read my above comment very well. I joined Caedes more than 5 years ago. My voting behavior didn't change that much since this time. What has changed is that I'm receiving frequently "There are no images to vote on" messages now. An unknown phenomenon in the past. 120 new images a day was rather normal then.
Please continue to ignore this. Sleep well.
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::coram9
08/06/11 1:46 PM GMT
Cornelius. I am sorry if you misunderstood me. I thought I had offered a simple explanation for the lack of images to vote on by showing that with few images being posted thee must be less to vote on. I think it would be easy to exceed the posted number and get this message. Especially since you are the second most prolific voter on the site, exceeded only by Tedi at this moment in time. In fact the number of votes you cast appears to be around the number of images posted over the last seven days. So yes, you would be getting these messages. We need more members to post, that is the solution.

Of course if you do not like how votes are cast in the VB, then you do not have to enter your images in it.

Given the explanation given by the moderators on many occasions about the zero vote issue and how it is addressed, I do fail to understand why people are so bothered about it. I do not think that you or any other members are children, but the statement I made, certainly in England, is one of general use when an adult responds in a certain manner to an event.

I continue to take part in this thread simply to try and get some sense and ballance about the VB and not let one particular point of view prevail for those that read these threads.
6∈ [?]
"There are no rules for good photographs, there are only good photographs." Ansel Adams - Gallery - Web Site - follow me on Twitter.
::LynEve
08/06/11 2:19 PM GMT


I honestly think one of the aspects that causes people to be upset is the suspicion that is generated by repeated zeroes appearing on perfectly decent images. Unless we are very dim I think we understand that there are images that are considered worth zero by some genuine voters, and they are perfectly entitled to do so. I am still waiting for a response to my invitation

http://www.caedes.net/Zephir.cgi?lib=Board::Topic&id=3253503

where the 4 images mentioned were not deserving of zeroes (disagree with me if you like, I don't mind at all, and would be most interested to hear opinions, that is why I posted the invitation in the first place. I like them and our image mods liked 2 of them enough to promote them)

Chris, your '1 zero in about 100 votes' is acceptable. It is when a string of zeroes appears one after the other that one begins to feel victimised. It can and has happened within a couple of hours to me personally but I concede that things have improved somewhat recently. I have thought that before though, and it can be a short lived respite. I have no gripes about the odd 0 vote, and do not feel vicitimsed by them and understand the system makes allowances, but being honest there have been times when I have felt otherwise. It may not be coherent proof but it certainly raises suspicions.
You asked (and I am assuming it is a general question for all) How many non zero votes do you get? For comparison to the number you get, my last 20 images have received 8 '0' votes, and the vote total is 258. It has to be taken into account that they are a low scoring group of images overall. None of them have caused me any upset, they have appeared randomly and they are merely numbers. 250 against 8 is ok by me but would not be if they appeared on consecutive images.

If zeroes are awarded by itinerant mischief makers that is one thing but if they are made by regular members for reasons other than the quality of the images then that is another.


It would be a great help and put many minds at rest if some reassurance could be offered that those regular participating members who consistently vote zeroes (IF (capitalization to emphasize the word, not to shout) there are any, and this is something none of us know) are being monitored and if they continue their voting privileges could be withdrawn - IF they are unreasonable votes in the opinion of our image mods. Even though low votes like these are adjusted accordingly by the index system that does not prevent feelings from being hurt when they become more prevalent than is acceptable.
I have to admit I have become used to them and they no longer upset me as they once did.

They can be given for only a few reasons . . .

The image is genuinely bad and deserves to be trashed
The voter is an itinerant nut case with bad eyesight
The voter is playing mischievous games.

Two of those three cause me no concern
2∈ [?]
My thanks to all who leave comments for my work and to those of you who like one enough to make it a favourite. To touch just one person that way makes each image worthwhile. . . . . . . . . .. . . . "The question is not what you look at, but what you see" ~ Marcel Proust . . . . The aim of argument, or of discussion, should not be victory, but progress." ~ Joseph Joubert (1754-1824)
::coram9
08/06/11 2:31 PM GMT
Leaving aside the reasons why anyone might vote 0, and trying to look at this objectively.

I only get 0 votes when I also get other low votes (1,2,3). This to me means that the zero voter is not alone in their opinions and that regardless of the technical quality of my images they genuinely no not like it. As do the people who vote 1,2 & 3, only perhaps not so forcefully put.

I have no example of receiving a 0 vote when I do not have other low votes. Some images that have received a high score have a cluster of votes in the top end, but they never seem to get a random 0 vote. In the case of Sleek, I got two 0 votes and 10 votes of 3 or below. That is not a random malicious individual, that is a consensus of opinion.

My experience may be unique, but that is why I do not see a problem.
0∈ [?]
"There are no rules for good photographs, there are only good photographs." Ansel Adams - Gallery - Web Site - follow me on Twitter.
::LynEve
08/06/11 3:42 PM GMT
If zeroes on my images were all placed that way I would be content. Many are- but many are not.

Objectively, I find it odd when all other votes are above 5, the final score is 80 or higher and there in the corner, smirking, is a dastardly little zero.
I would venture to say that most of the 0 votes I get are random zeroes on higher scoring images. My ho hum images ususally get ho hum votes - middle to low. Just as I expect.

"I have no example of receiving a 0 vote when I do not have other low votes."
I have plenty - but hey, they still will not drive me from the VB.
1∈ [?]
My thanks to all who leave comments for my work and to those of you who like one enough to make it a favourite. To touch just one person that way makes each image worthwhile. . . . . . . . . .. . . . "The question is not what you look at, but what you see" ~ Marcel Proust . . . . The aim of argument, or of discussion, should not be victory, but progress." ~ Joseph Joubert (1754-1824)
::coram9
08/06/11 4:43 PM GMT
Having seen lyneve's voting patterns it is indeed the case that they are solitary and quite anomalous 0 votes. As indeed might be other votes on the images she showed me. As I said I have not seen anything like this on my images, but then I never get scores like her's either, or so few votes.

At least the zero's did not seem to influence the overall score.

And I am glad for her going to the trouble and effort.



0∈ [?]
"There are no rules for good photographs, there are only good photographs." Ansel Adams - Gallery - Web Site - follow me on Twitter.
::tigger3
08/08/11 8:21 PM GMT
This is exactly why I do not like the discussion threads, the words typed can come across so harsh and possbly be misunderstood, or taken in the right context, but in either case, it always seems that people get upset, and defensive. I thought I would put a few words in on that note.


You have to be carefull how you type your words, they can come across so harsh, and now we have some very talented members considering taking hiatus from Caedes, and for what it is worth, the issues will probably still be here, but we might loose some very talented members.


I thought in the old days, the mods could deny a posting for quality, but that seems to have changed, or has it? This whole thread is so upsetting.


I too get the low votes, and sometimes I just can't figure out why? I always put my images on my desktop, before uploading, and hopefully most of my uploads are worthy. But like what has been said if the vb is bothering you that much, we do have the option not to put our works into it, but I think the (not seem to really care attitude) and (not seem to really listen to what members have to say), is hurting this site very much, this really saddens me.

5∈ [?]
Nature in all her glory is my uplift on life and so is my love of photography. sandi ♪ ♫
::Ramad
08/08/11 9:13 PM GMT
Let me put my two bits in for what it is worth. This is the first time I have read this thread. I have been with caedes continuously since May 2006. I have had zeros for images that should have got a much better rating. I have learned to ignore it because I see on the other hand very often 10s which in my opinion is too high for those images for which I myself might have given an 8 at the most. I have read Chris's statements above. I don't think they were meant as an insult at all. He should have perhaps toned it down a bit - that is all.
To my caedes friends who want to leave temperorily or permanently this friendly site I say : "Guys, don't be upset because some mischief makers love upsetting people by giving zeros for their images. Think also of the 10s you get. This is a friendly site and after all the c-index is jut an approximate rating of your image. It won't get you a prize . It is really not worth getting so upset over this grading because you know that it is not given by a professional artist or photographer."
5∈ [?]
If practice makes perfect and nobody is perfect, then why practice?
::casechaser
08/08/11 9:13 PM GMT
Sandi, I have been one of your biggest fans for years now and it saddens me to read your words and know the truth behind them. Many of the people you alude to have been role models to me. Their art speaks volumes with the whole rainbow of emotions encrypted into each picture.

I do not want them to leave. Not as much for the site as for me. I would miss their presence, their art, their humanity.

I cannot come up with a solution for them. Even though I can feel their anger and pain, I cannot find it within me to exit along with them. Each of us needs to reflect and decide what it means to visit here each day.

Would it be enough to view each other's art, make comments, and be a part of each other's "cyber" world? Do we need to address those we disagree with, with silence and abandonment?

For me, I cannot. I find pleasure on this site. I have learned much about the lakes around your house, the barns surrounding Tick, and the bridges in Jimbob County.

I have also appreciated being able to express my opinions and allowing them to be read and digested. We have a lot of freedoms on this site. One of them is tolerance.

As I mentioned, and, like you, what I am hearing saddens me and I find that I can only hope and pray that we all can make it through this situation.
11∈ [?]
::Ramad
08/08/11 9:23 PM GMT
Something went wrong here because John and I posted our comments at the same moment.
0∈ [?]
If practice makes perfect and nobody is perfect, then why practice?
=Samatar
08/08/11 10:01 PM GMT
In the end the simple fact seems to be that the voting booth is not going to change any time soon. The only person who has even the slightest bit of control over that is caedes and he has given no indication that he is going to do so, on any of the numerous threads that have bought up the topic over the past several months/years. So I guess we just have to get used to it, move on, and make whatever adjustments are necessary to live with it as it is.
5∈ [?]
-Everyone is entitled to my opinion-
::billyoneshot
08/09/11 11:41 AM GMT
Sir I would not give a zero or a one to someones very worst work. There should never be a reason to use it at all much less everytime. This person is just trying to make there work look better and I guess it is working because no one seems to care.
5∈ [?]
Billy
.J_272004
08/12/11 12:37 AM GMT
Can I ask a question and PLEASE DO NOT TAKE THIS THE WRONG WAY AND ATTACK ME.. it's just a question...

When you first came on Caedes and you first posted your work.. why did you do it? was it to share your work? was it to learn and improve? or was it to get the votes and high CI?

just curious..

oh and a few years ago with the old system of voting.. there were members banned from the site.. one in particular kept coming back with a different ID and repeating the offense.. I'd say the only reason he was caught was because of the comments he made and the PM's he sent certain members.. I think the new way is better.. but that's my opinion.. and yes I have zero's also
0∈ [?]
MY GALLERY ........... "You are not alive unless you know you are living." Amadeo Modigliani
.biffobear
08/14/11 4:01 PM GMT
People normally get attacked or flamed when they ask a question here Jacqueline but don't worry I'm not one of them and here's my answer..I first posted my work to show people where i live.Later as I learned I posted more varied stuff,People that like/disliked made comments..Then the place became to mean more to me than somewhere to get wallpaper,It became somewhere to meet likeminded people..I view this site as more than just pictures,I view it as a kind of extended family.I have met quite a few people on here personally and spoke to many more all over the world on the phone..I feel the majority want to make friends here and not just look at pretty pictures..If you want pretty pictures and no contact with the people behind them,There's plenty of other sites do that..Recent posts have berated people for personal posting.IE:Pets or family members passing over,To me that's totally wrong,Cold and unfeeling..Like i say this place is about more than pictures..The day this site loses that unique quality,Is the day i depart from it....Have a nice day...Richie.
2∈ [?]
I can smell the sunlight on your skin. Listen to them. Children of the night. What music they make!
::tigger3
08/14/11 4:25 PM GMT
Richie said it so welle! I first started on this site, because it looked like a fun place to visit, and I was so impressed with the images. Then I took the big step, and tried posting, and noticed how helpful the members were. I too have talked to some of the members by phone, and made some very good friendships. What a great site it is, you can share your images, and comment on other members works, and see parts of the country you might not otherwise be able too, and the friendships made are a 100 percent plus factor. I think it is important to this site, and I hope we can continue to enjoy some of the personnal side of our friends on Caedes.
2∈ [?]
Nature in all her glory is my uplift on life and so is my love of photography. sandi ♪ ♫

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