It doesn't seem to me that people are really taking time to critique a persons work. Most of the time lately all I see is how beautiful or fine work or something to that affect being commented. I do it myself, because I'm almost afraid to give my real opinion. It upsets me I guess.

HOW TO LEAVE CRITIQUE

1- THE WOW FACTOR
explain in few words what was it about the art that caught your interest in the first 3 seconds of viewing.

2- COMPOSITION
it dosent matter if you like the art or not, you can still give an opinion of how the art was composed.

3- TECHNICAL
this is where you get to blab about LIGHTING, FOCUS, COLOR, and anything else that may possess you. You may even relay gentle hints on how to improve (whatever) .

THATS IT. THATS ALL YOU NEED TO EXPRESS, yet it provides the artist with a wealth of feedback.

I agree, too many comments are nothing more than pleasantries, or HOGWASH. They provide the artist with no usable feedback.

Thank you for the useful help (How to Leave Critique), appreciate it.

Carol, never be timid in providing you real opinion. There are ways to provide it whithout being rude or falsely complimentary. I am an old fart who wisely discovered I can pick and choose my own battles. So if someone dosent like my critique, I can just ignore it or foolishly try to defend my honor. I tend to be on the lazy side, so most of the time I ignore unappreciative bellyaching. I think thats why many people leave the site, because there is not much real feedback in the comments. Its a public site. People have the freedom to say what ever they think is worth publishing, the right to express themselves is provided only by you. The business of posting Art and Photography is a brutal and rewarding exercise. The only time it should really upset you, is when you are not living up to your own expectations. I am writing from experience.

Thanks, Moose.. appreciate you taking the time to post to this discussion.

You have been (conspicuously, for me, at least) been missed.


Carol,

I tend to follow, more or less.. what pastureyes (aka; Moose) is suggesting in his comment above. And then, within the posting/commenting structure of:

1) Say something 'nice'
- i.e. what about the image drew you in for a closer look.. could be the subject matter itself, colours, uniqueness of the image, etc.

2) A suggestion towards improvement
- i.e. as pastureyes suggests in his comment above; composition, lighting, contrast, etc.

3) Close with something 'nice'.

... ...

Words from our own eye-in-the-sky; aka; *caedes.. found in the "Other Stuff that wouldn't fit anywhere else" | "How to Give a good review" section:

"Giving an Image Review

The comment area below the caedes.net images is for reviewing the author's image. Much like a review of a restaurant or movie, you are expected to give a balanced reaction to the work. This reaction should be mature, polite, and backed up by details, proof, or examples. The purpose of the review should be to help the author advance in skill by offering your own knowledge and/or talent.

Do include one or more point that you particularly like about the image.
Do include one or more points that you don't like.
Do offer advice on how the image could be improved or how the author's skills could be improved.
Don't be afraid of hurting someone's feelings. As long as your review is mature and polite most people will love your attention.
Don't simply state "It's awesome" or "It sucks," such statements without elaboration are useless and waste space on the site. What's awesome to a 3 year old could be awful anyone else. You have to prove that your perspective is worth considering. The best way to do this is to back up your opinions with insightful suggestions for improvement.
Don't conduct private conversations between someone other than the author of the image. Use the Personal Message service or offtopic discussion forum instead."

To underscore one of the above points, here it is again:

"Don't be afraid of hurting someone's feelings. As long as your review is mature and polite most people will love your attention."

/\ This has been my experience in all the time that I've been unabashedly sharing my inane and nonsensical 'constructive critiques'.

... ...

If interested, there is a long history of this topic having been discussed time and time again.. here.

I've found.. for the most part.. that what you say in your image's accompanying narrative can impact the type of comments you receive as well.

An earnest plea for some help.. usually shakes peeps from simply putting up cookie cutter kind of comments. In that they feel a lil' more comfortable in expressing their opinions/offering constructive critiques.

There have been posts similar to this in the past Carol and I've made comments about it before. Many artists here still retain and favour their friends list and as far as critique goes it's often a case of See no evil, hear no evil, speak no evil. It's a method that courses no offence and helps build friendship. However this approach stagnates growth and artistic achievement and can easily mislead adequate artists into believing their actually quite good!

Also as you have say it can create an environment of fear! For instance if I see a poor image that could benefit from my critique it's a lot easier not comment at all rather than contradict the previous positive comments.

Back in the day when I first uploaded here as philflossman my photographs were very fundamental and needed improvement. Respected artists gave me polite but negative comments with constructive advice that really helped me develop! Also there was the voting booth which gave every uploaded image a rating and drove people to improve their work. (o:

Eight years later this website has minuscule attendance while some similar sites remain very healthy. The vast majority of artists here haven't uploaded work or commented in over five years and probably never will again.

However despite this the quality of work seems to have improved lately and though very few enter the monthly contests the winning results can be quite inspiring. (o: I suspect this is because they belong to other websites where helpful and polite critique is rewarded.

Few Caedes artists like me Carol since one sociopathic artist with influence stitched me up, so it will be interesting to observe any feedback I get to this comment. Take care and remember Caedes is essentially a wallpaper website, there are plenty of photography and art websites out there, if you haven't joined one yet why not consider it?

Thank you for the advice, guess I should have given it a little more study. I see this subject has been discussed many times. I do enjoy this site and am glad for any suggestions given to me by members. I do check and comment on others than just my friends. This also is a big help in what I put out there. I've been with the site since 2008, can't remember how I found the site, but I'm sure glad I did. I'm kind of late to the photography game, but Caedes has been a great help. Thank you for clearing up my problem.

I will butt in, one more time, with my thoughts on critique. If you post a picture and only want pleasantries, its not a problem. Do nothing, your friends will provide it. There are people here who want critique or standardized critique, then just say so when you post your art. I did this for a long time, when I did post art here, but got very little real critique. I went to other sites, and the comments are plentiful. Some are actual critique and some are mean spirited ranting. But I wear big boy pants, I just ignore the ranting. Its so easy to do, I could teach anyone how to do it in about 3 seconds. I like the idea of free expression, I like receiving standardized critique, and I enjoy writing a note of thanks to the individual who provided me with it. The original comment for this discussion was, should an individual feel bad for leaving actual critique instead of pleasantries. I posted my comments earlier about this. If people come to the site for fellowship and chit chat, well! the structure of the site allows for that. Amen to you and please dont bore me to death with lets all be nice stuff. I came hear to learn, improve, and share my skills and learned talents. I usually provided further assistance thru email or PM. I left because I felt I wasnt getting the critique I needed. I occasionally return, because this is where I started.

Yep Caedes can still be fun and addictive and like Moose says Carol if you want honestly there are ways of asking for it in your narrative. It has worked for me in the past.

I wish there was a way that I could tell which artists want critique and which don't. Very few say they want comments, and it's painful if you comment to an unwilling artist...

"I wish there was a way that I could tell which artists want critique and which don't."

Yeah.. therein lies the rub of sorts.

Here's what I do and have done in the past..

Take a moment to peruse the member in question's galleries and accompanying narratives to their images before committing words to a comment. To get a general gauge of where the member is sitting on the learning curve.

If, for example.. the member is just starting out.. my comments/critiques are more along the lines of suggestions towards improvement/encouragement.

If, a lil' more 'seasoned'.. the sandwich method of:

1) Say something nice.. i.e. what drew you in for a closer look.
2) Offer a suggestion towards improvement.
3) Say something nice.. i.e. a concluding remark underscoring what appealed to you initially and a 'thanks for sharing'.

And.. done.

Reiterating what Moose; aka pastureyes said in his comments above;

"So if someone doesn't like my critique, I can just ignore it or foolishly try to defend my honor. I tend to be on the lazy side, so most of the time I ignore unappreciative bellyaching."

I don't quite understand this drive to dissect other artists' work. Art is subjective, after all.

What is wrong with simply enjoying the art, expression, and creativity of others on Caedes? Do you go to real-world museums and publicly declare what is worthy, what isn't, and why? Do you disparage Van Gogh for his color choices or scream at Annie Leibovitz, "Oh my god, ANOTHER portrait?"

If you want to offer a beneficial observation on someone's work, then do so. But please don't belittle people for offering "pleasantries". People should feel free to offer admiration, encouragement, and humor, too. If you dismiss those posts as only frivolous and insignificant, then you are robbing the viewer of a voice and are discouraging dialog.

Your appraisal of someone's work should be open to the whole range of human emotion, not just criticism.

Perhaps we should get out our knitting and I'll pour a cuppa from the teapot and talk about the of price eggs too.

Yes I'm being sarcastic Lisa, but Caedes shouldn't be comparable to an old folks retirement home. One thing's for sure it's definitely not similar to the Tate Britain or the Louvre France.

You've been here a long time Lisa, are you saying you do not miss the old days when critique was welcome and Caedes was a very busy and popular website with many talented artists?

Laughs ... may I suggest decaffinated tea?

I'm not saying that there shouldn't be critiquing. There is always (or at least usually) some value to be had in another's shared experience or perspective.

But not every work is going to inspire criticism from the viewer. Sometimes people just like something and want to share that opinion with the artist. Is that information then any less valuable to the artist?

By all means, critique away! I, myself, have made suggestions to other Caedes contributors. And others have critiqued me.

All I'm saying is, don't treat people who have positive feedback as being insignificant and somehow failing the whole. Everybody should have the right to express their honest opinion ... even if it isn't critical or is simply a passing comment. If you condemn people for that, you will create a website of voyeurs instead of contributors.

If you want change, be the change. Step up. Others will follow suit. But there will always be some who won't. And I am saying that that's okay. Their contribution is important too. It is simply a different perspective. And they shouldn't be dismissed for expressing it.

Kinda like I'm doing here ...

@ questjester

You might find this discussion interesting, Lisa:

"Is Critique Dead?"

Particularly, the latter part of the OP by yours truly..

"As well, and lastly ... 'critique' for me, took on some other dimensions.

It was not only about the 'good, bad and possible improvements'.

Came to understand and appreciate how in reading comments, wherein the commenter expressed the way that a piece touched them, influenced them ... could be added to the acceptable levels of 'critiques'.

Creating and posting work, where a dialogue of sorts is initiated/results between that of the viewer and artist ... is indeed a fruitful one."

(p.s. Unfortunately, the linked article is no longer at the embedded URL. However, the gist is reflected in the content of the post/comment quoted above and for the most part.)

... ...

I post the stuff above, since.. and upon reflection and to the uninitiated, this discussion might appear to be weighted towards "constructive critique" and only "constructive critique".

@ purmusic

Thank you, I did find the discussion interesting.

Since discovering this discussion thread (and annoying gonedigital), I have tried to step up my game on the site. I routinely offer critique observations and offer suggestions. Hopefully, I will continue to learn and improve.

Thank you for the explanation, it was well done. I have learned so much over the years by my caedes friends who give honest advice. I will try to do the same, maybe I have gotten into the rut of leaving lazy, easy comments.