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Discussion Board -> Desktop Wallpaper, Art, etc. -> The Space Gallery

The Space Gallery

DigitalFX
08/14/05 6:09 PM GMT
I just don't get why people download space images from the web and post them here. This should be for people who do celestial photography, people who create photoreal space art with 3D applications. What is the point of downloading a government image that's already be enhanced and uploading it here. Isn't Caedes supposed to be a venu for personal expression. This gallery seems to me to be totally out of synch with the entire concept of Caedes. Do we really need to take up our precious hard drive space with Nasa images...and rate them? I think not. If I want one of these images, I just go to the source at Nasa and download them. Please comment.
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-DFX - "Come away with me to a fractal sea where the digital dophins flow.

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::philcUK
08/14/05 6:18 PM GMT
Well speaking for myself - I only post Nasa images that I think people would enjoy using and if you look at most raw NASA images in their archives they are of a pretty poor quality and I spend quite a bit of time cleaning up and reformatting images to fit into the sites requirements. I dont do it because I'm lazy and cant be bothered to do anything else myself - I do it because I think (and many people have told me so in the past) that others will enjoy using them. there is already a seperate gallery devoted to cg generated space images for users to upload work to. In the big scheme of things the amount of NASA images as opposed to the legions of generic images from bryce, terragen, apophysis et al is miniscule and wouldnt, I would have thought represented any great burden on server space.
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"Some mornings, it's just not worth chewing through the leather straps"
MiLo_Anderson
08/14/05 6:22 PM GMT
Personally i agree with digitalFX, but i don't really look at this site as what it truly is ment to be: A desktop wallpaper site. I see it more of a place to come look at other peoples work and share mine. So my opinion is probably outside of the sites puropse, so i can see how they would have a place here.
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"A piece of toast with butter always lands butter side down, and a cat always lands on its feet. What happens if a piece of toast is tied butter side down to the back of falling cat? Does it hover above the ground in perpetual indecision?"
::philcUK
08/14/05 6:27 PM GMT
there are currently less than 160 images in the space gallery out of a total of more than 16,000 on the site so I dont see why it would be an issue at all....
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"Some mornings, it's just not worth chewing through the leather straps"
::Morwyn
08/14/05 6:40 PM GMT
I personally enjoy seeing the NASA images.. I don't have the time to look at the NASA site as much as I would like, so I let those who do, sort and post the best ones here.. To take that away would be a shame..
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One bead at a time..
::CaptainHero
08/14/05 7:35 PM GMT
I think that if 3rd party images are uploaded (even if they have been cropped, sharpened, whatever) then there should be a way of uploading it so that it doesn't count towards that artists's score (and, hence, author list position).

I think that it is perfectly acceptable to have that gallery - people clearly enjoy it and I think these fascinating space images generally get a good reception and a good vote. The same is true of posting, say, an image of a painting by Rembrandt or whatever. We need to draw a line between photo manipulation galleries, where a user has taken stock images or their own photos and reworked them, and just uploading a shot of a distant galaxy or a fine art painting.

In short: I can understand that people upload such images, but it should be done under some sort of generic profile so that these public domain images are seen as such.
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"The whole problem with the world is that fools and fanatics are always so certain of themselves, but wiser people so full of doubts." Bertrand Russell
::philcUK
08/14/05 8:11 PM GMT
I think that most if not all people credit the work they upload to the relevant galleries so I doubt that any confusion would exist as to their source. Again, at less than 1% of the total input to the sites images, I wouldn't imagine they make much of an impact on peoples scores either - even if you did take it seriously as opposed to being in the general spirit of the community involvement. As is the case with cg space images, there is also a manipulation gallery already in existence so I don’t see what additional clarification you would need on that. If a generic user profile for space uploads would appease the apparent concern of this minority gallery then that's fine too if need be but personally I cannot see why the status quo should be altered when it has worked just fine over the past few years.
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"Some mornings, it's just not worth chewing through the leather straps"
+mayne
08/14/05 8:11 PM GMT
Matthew, that is the way I feel. And it is a fair compromise:-)
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Darryl
DigitalFX
08/14/05 8:56 PM GMT
I stand informed. I still can't say I fully understand, but philcUK made the very best argument. I have a huge library of Nasa pictures and in fact I put many of them on the CD for my first book. I do think they can be beautiful. If a person truly does put some work into the uploads the way PhilcUK does, then it makes sense to some degree. I've wondered about this for a very long time and now I can see why the Space Gallery may have a reason to exist. Thank you for clarifying. I do think that CaptainHero makes some good suggestions though and I agree with that approach...Except philcUK still makes good arguments for the status quo.
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-DFX - "Come away with me to a fractal sea where the digital dophins flow.
*caedes
08/14/05 10:36 PM GMT
There is also a certain amount of valued added to the NASA images by gathering the good ones together in one place. Even though they are not created by Caedes members (as far as we know), they still help the site by attracting new members. Remember that the site has two aspects: those sharing images and those using them.
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-caedes
::philcUK
08/14/05 10:40 PM GMT
NASA also seam to see some benefit in it as Crusader & I found out when images we had enhanced and trawled from their archives reappeared in their multimedia galleries in their new and improved Caedes makeover form. cheeky gits :-)
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"Some mornings, it's just not worth chewing through the leather straps"
*caedes
08/14/05 10:42 PM GMT
Oh really? Do you have a specific example of this?
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-caedes
DigitalFX
08/14/05 10:45 PM GMT
By golly we DO serve a greater purpose!!!!
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-DFX - "Come away with me to a fractal sea where the digital dophins flow.
::philcUK
08/14/05 10:45 PM GMT
I think the Shuttle Launch & Reflections made it back accross into their archives, there were a few others at the time that we noticed had gone from the JPL to Caedes and then back to the primary multimedia gallery - cant complain really seeing as how they provided such excellent raw material...
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"Some mornings, it's just not worth chewing through the leather straps"
MiLo_Anderson
08/15/05 4:47 AM GMT
I think this issue should be posted in the Vigilante Justice fourm. Just because they are a super rich government agancy doesn't mean they can rip pictures off our site without author permission. It is clearly stated in the code of conduct:P.
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"A piece of toast with butter always lands butter side down, and a cat always lands on its feet. What happens if a piece of toast is tied butter side down to the back of falling cat? Does it hover above the ground in perpetual indecision?"
::philcUK
08/15/05 6:42 AM GMT
hmmm bit of a grey area really that one seeing as how we kind of borrowed them off them in the first place :)
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"Some mornings, it's just not worth chewing through the leather straps"
Crusader
08/17/05 7:47 PM GMT
Beeing one of the major contributors to the Space Gallery, I just have to voice my opinion in this thread. When I first discovered Caedes.net there was around 20 space wallpapers (if memory serves), and it was one of the reasons I got hooked here.

As Phil pointed out, NASA's archives are extremely huge. Most of their thousands of images aren't very nice to look at, but finding those excellent awe-inspiring images is what I aim for. I post space images, simply to share the beauty of it with others, to inspire them, and heck to make it easier to find some decent space wallpapers.

I got a lot of flack from members because of C-index issues and stupid remarks posted on the images. That's the main reason I decided to branch out on my own, and create The Final Frontier. The site now fulfills the purpose of providing a decent site with lots of good quality space wallpapers. My problem is solved, and I enjoy it immensly to find the images and share them on my very own site (which was a heck of a learning curve to learn to run).

I don't care about the C-index, but I can understand the concerns some people might have. That's why I'm not posting as many space images as I used to. If you go through my gallery you'll find that all NASA images have been properly credited, and that I have a large collection of my own images (non space related). If I could afford a telescope of my own I would definitely be uploading my own astrophotography but alas at this stage I can't.

The only reason I still upload space images on Caedes.net, is not to increase my C-index rating, but to add value to the site. It takes a lot of hard work to find the gems amongst the stones, but I still enjoy it! If people want us to post under an assumed identity I would be more than happy to do that.
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::CaptainHero
08/17/05 8:22 PM GMT
I like the way that you put your case - it makes a welcome change from some of the other discussions I've seen recently. I can see the points you are making - though I was kind of aware of the issues anyway, but you have clarified them.

It's a shame if members have been giving you flak or leaving stupid comments. I'm still not totally convinced one way or the other - it is a grey area. I guess, as Phil said, it doesn't greatly matter in the scheme of things.

Love your site, by the way.
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"The whole problem with the world is that fools and fanatics are always so certain of themselves, but wiser people so full of doubts." Bertrand Russell
::verenabloo
08/17/05 9:04 PM GMT

I have some great space sites on the net..I go there if I want to stroll about..and personally I see no reason to post those already done photos in here. This is an artists site...not a site to copy other peoples photos..even if it is the SPACE type. It takes a LOT more creativity to take photos and paint or draw or do fractal designs..then to just find a photo of space and post it here...we can go to the internet sites for that...well, I guess this is how I feel...you all have made some good points..and everyone is kind..but...this IS an artistic site...
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You can do anything...if you don't quit!....
::philcUK
08/17/05 9:48 PM GMT
see thread and site titles - Desktop WALLPAPER and Artist community. also if you read some of these posts it is not simply a case of finding & reposting images from elsewhere...
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"Some mornings, it's just not worth chewing through the leather straps"
Crusader
08/17/05 10:05 PM GMT
It's definitely much more than just finding and posting the images. We spent a lot of time framing, editing and optimising the images we post. I normally spent around half an hour optimising an image before I even think it's ready to post on the site.

Although Caedes has a great creative community it is first and foremost, a WALLPAPER site. Genuine NASA space wallpapers are just part of that...
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