AUBREY went to the trouble of NOT naming an artist who’s work he personally doesn’t like, no doubt in an attempt to ensure that both he and the artist were not attacked for their views. But that is exactly what has happened, he has been attacked. While a PM to a mod would no doubt have been an option, I suspect that AUBREY wanted to share a gentle reminder with the broader group that did NOT result in the picture being removed from the site.

Here are some comments posted in this string (http://www.caedes.net/Zephir.cgi?lib=Board::Topic&id=1198045) :

“...art shouldn't be censored. If it is kiddie porn, or an image of someone being murdered...no that isn't art...but if it is just disturbing and provacative...well, that's what art is.”

"I, personally, would prefer that you do this rather than to leave cryptic, open-ended statements here .. and then get all shy and squirmy over the response"

“One person's take on art is different than anothers...just something to keep in mind.”

This one was posted here too:

“...And where are "Aubrey's" artistic endeavours? I sure don't see any! I've always said..."Those whom can't DO....CRITIQUE!"”.

Why is it that if a post comes from a less-active member, it’s a “cryptic complaint”, but when it is a blatant insult that comes from a very active member it goes unnoticed? Hypocrisy.

“Recent events” in North America are not necessarily confined to the US, although many of the “events” to which AUBREY may be referencing surly take place there. Aside from a group of disgruntled (or elated, depending on their bent) political analysts, who might possibly post disturbing artwork on the net? If you need a slap-in-the-face rather than a subtle hint, try looking up keywords like “Columbine”, “Ecole Polytechnique” and “school shooting” in google. The perpetrators of these disturbing and unfortunate events used the internet to post thoughts, imagery, poetry about their anger at the world. And, unlike people who are angry at their boss, their ex-partner, their teacher, these individuals had very unfocused anger and fantasized about taking revenge on “the world” or “everyone”. Venting anger through artistic outlets is one thing, but fantasizing about hurting lots of innocent strangers is, quite frankly, over the edge of “OK”.

Now, remove the artistic background, think about the focus of the anger, contemplate a context that involves your own children at school today, and read the words below:

Everything burns
While everyone screams
Burning their lies
Burning my dreams
All of this hate
And all of this pain
I’ll burn it all down
As my anger reigns
Till everything burns

Shame on all of you for your crude attack on AUBREY. He didn’t personally attack any of you, and yet none of you had the capacity to show him the same restraint.

While I personally did not post on that thread, and do feel that a few members went too far, I think they were not in the main wrong.

The mods are the only people who are capable of keeping a closer eye and making sure that images don't slip through. If Aubrey felt that an image was cutting it close, or that the text on the image was cutting it close, a mod was the appropriate person to approach. Even if it was just a "can you keep an eye out for this person's future work, I feel this image was really borderline".

With no definition ANYWHERE, and only vague references, the other members were left without any ability to form their own viewpoint about the matter and the consequent ability to discuss it rationally.

If you're going to raise an issue, you have to step up to the plate and own it. Be very clear about what you're talking about and you'll be responded to in the same way.

I also think AUBREY made the thread to basically tell EVERYONE, not just that one artist, to be careful of what you post. A PM to a mod would not have served that purpose.

THE SUBJECT UNVEILED ?!?!

I've been quoted, sweet!!

~runs off to call mom~ 8~D

Sorry Aubrey if we went too far. Agree with .animaniactoo though, we had nothing to base off of since we had no clue as to what posting was in question. Just because someone sez something is good, bad, offensive, etc. doesn't mean we're all gonna jump on that person's bandwagon and agree. We ALL handled it the wrong way.

If indeed my link is to the questionable post, I find no problem with it. That's my opinion and that counts. If others are offended by it, that's fine too as that's their opinion and it counts. Sit down and watch TV sometime, I've seen more offensive stuff in commercials.

Anger is an emotion that is part of daily living, a negative one yes, but still part of everyday life. Caedes.net has a plethora of people ranging in sex, age, race, religion, etc. People with many ranges of emotions and are allowed to express "their opinion"...their emotions within the selected parameters.

I actually SAW that image (and poem) that you mentioned above and replied to it.
I said that it was good to use art to vent...meaning if it is vented in a constructive way, it wouldn't necessarily cause harm to others...and the image itself was very good and thought provoking, so from an artistic viewpoint, it shouldn't be censored. Also, if THAT is in fact the image don't you think that pulling it would piss the person off more, a person who is already angry and wanting to be heard? Not being heard or seen often causes things to escalate. And as I stated in Aubrey's thread, warning us as a group won't have much effect as we don't pull the images, it is for a mod to decide, and as I suggested, it would be better served to bring up concerns to someone here who has the power to do something about it. The thread was very cryptic (and felt like a veiled threat in itself), and often if things are presented in a way such as that, people don't want to pay much attention to it...if one has a concern, making a cryptic thread about it rather than speaking with someone "in charge" won't get much done about the concern. I PM'd Piner about Aubrey's thread in hopes that perhaps he could do something about it and get to the bottom of things...so while you quoted me above, I did in fact DO something as well. So before getting upset with us at Caedes, perhaps you should get the WHOLE story, not just what you read in a thread.

Kim, I understand your concern, but I think it's slightly misplaced. Aubrey seemed to be speaking in much broader terms than just a single image. Among other things, she warned the mods to be mindful of the integrity of the site. For all of the complaints filed or aired (including mine) I'd say the integrity of the site is in outstanding shape.

When Aubrey opened the thread, several members responded to her in a serious manner, as did I, further down. Refusing to name a specific image and yet getting so emotional and adamant had, and most often will have all the earmarks of grandstanding. A great many members have kicked around the soapbox from time to time (again..including me) but have made a point to address, describe and discuss the issue at hand.

Sorry, but my honest opinion is that something external to Caedes was the catalyst here, and someone's intense or extremely expressive piece of art made a juicy target. So while yes, the mockery and irreverance might have been over the top, it wasn't the initial reaction.

Just some food for thought.

Kim, I am sorry that you & Aubrey feel the way that you do at this time. Aubrey stated in his original statement "let the voting system sort it out", then mentioned vigilance and integrity. I heard a mixed message and some confusion because as pointed out, there were vague accusations being made. I personally believe that this is something that would have best been handled via the 'complain' button as mentioned, or a PM to Caedes or to one of the mods. No one here is close minded in my opinion, and the mods do a doggone good job of being vigilant and consistent.
You stated that Aubrey wanted to share a "gentle reminder". Well, what was stated was not very gentle to my eyes and became a flaming thread without any evidence to back it up and also much hostility on both sides of the fence. It sounded more like a thinly veiled threat to me that quickly escalated. As Cat stated, we must name & claim our issues before we can deal with them. We all have differences of opinions and I have always known Caedes and the mods to be quite fair and impartial if I have a problem.Should this problem arises again, please try to change the way it is handled. That way, these types of threads can be avoided. No one needs to shame anyone here. And I do mean anyone!
My hope is that everyone returns to the site and enjoys their genre of art and to learn something new.
Thanks for sharing your views with me Kim ;=)

I hope Aubrey reconsiders and returns....
After reading the post that was supposedly in question, I will just say that I think my own post that was heavy with sexual innuendo was way worse than the one in question...and in fact, I deleted it TODAY....because my sense of humor can be quite warped...
In no way, shape or manner does my sense of humor reflect the TRUE person I am inside....and I firmly believe { if this is indeed the questionable post} {Everything burns}, that it was a creative outlet and artistic endeavor to allow the artist to express thoughts...or describe things people he/she knows has felt. The person is attacking PAIN and HATE. Art is supposed to be controversial.....and make one think. You cannot judge the artist by his/her art....and if you do, then you open yourselves to also be criticized. Still and all....Aubrey will be welcomed back if he considers to return....and best case scenario is to just trust our mods here to do the fine jobs they do, and the integrity of every artist who posts....and when something is not to your liking, hit the next button and move onward. Best wishes to all....and again...hope that Aubrey comes back....Heaven knows I have left and returned like a boomarang....so cheers to the wonderful people and revolving doors at Caedes!!

what aubrey did was equivalent to saying ...

Somebody, somewhere did something they shouldn't have .. based on MY morals, upbringing, and view of things ... and you all DROPPED THE BALL and allowed them to do this ... and I ask that YOU don't allow them to do this anymore

what did YOU expect would come of that? ... "oh, ok, we'll get right on it"

clarification was requested (understandably) .. and he got "all shy and squirmy" immediately .. (go ahead, quote me again)

It is unfortunate that somethings were said .. and mostly, that he cleared his gallery

It's important for you to understand that photographs of PUBLIC statues are reported by members and REMOVED ... so somebody needs a horse less-high. me thinks

but I am not losing any more sleep over the matter

Writing and art are a wonderful outlet for ALL emotions, whether its love, sadness, happiness or anger its a great way to get things off their chests and its a way of not harming themselves or anyone else.... I would rather see a piece of art full of emotion than one that is just a mechanical boring lifeless piece.. I have looked at the image in question and I cant see what the drama is..

Someone wrote how they were feeling, so what? it doesnt mean they are going to go out and harm someone.. words like those are found in songs (not just the modern ones.. yes even the old songs have lyrics of hate in them.. even opera's sing about hate, murder, death etc..Classic poets wrote of the same thing) so I cant see how that image needed a warning (i've seen worse on here).. In the days before the internet people kept diaries which they wrote all their emotions and thoughts its the same thing..

Kim i cant see what Columbine etc has anything to do with this art site and the piece that is in question.. you are generalising that ALL the net is bad news for people, in that incident it wasnt just the net to blame for what happend there was a lot more to it than that.. eg.. no one bothered to listen or take notice of what was going on in their lives, they had family problems, they were on medication etc.. plus a lot more.. so you cant just say "oh its because they were writing their thoughts on the net and thats what caused those tragic incidents..

As for Aubrey's thread.. makes me wonder if it was to get the discussion fired up, why bother saying that an image was offensive, "be warned" be warned of what?? be warned that THEY didnt like it? be warned that THEY found it personally offensive?? thats one persons opinion.. people are not going to be able to give a rational opinion and have a calm discussion if they have no idea what they have to "be warned" about..

The whole idea of a discussion thread is to DISCUSS, which is hard when you dont know what your discussing..

Did AUBREY contact you and tell you that the image above was IN FACT the image that there was issue with?

If not, we are all (again) left to hypothesize on something that we really don't know about. We are only guessing, and offering up our VIEWS based on a guess. The SHAME here is that instead of going directly to a mod, or offering up a link, we are left with what came across as a passive-aggressive demand that we do better. In my view, the mods here are doing awesome jobs...and as stated many times before, the complain button is there for a reason. It's too bad that AUBREY emptied out the personal gallery and presumably left...but if the image above was indeed the image in question, perhaps Caedes wasn't the site for AUBREY to begin with. Honestly, while we may all agree (or not) that the above image is intense and can possibly even be deemed disturbing, it is art...and art is a much better way to vent than in a physical manner as in the Columbine tragedy. Hopefully Piner was able to find out the image that AUBREY teased at, and was able to use his good judgement to decide what to do with it.

Another thought, and please take it for what it is...
On these forums, one can sign up using any name, and even a fake email...so if in fact someone is planning harm, we can PM that person, but there is still very little we can do, as we have no way of viewing important info...only those "powers that be" here at Caedes can do that, and probably in a limited capacity.

I'm sorry you feel we attacked AUBREY, but I stand by my initial advice...contact a mod or Caedes directly if there is an image that one is concerned about.

KEIFER has done a good job of representing my thoughts on this matter. It is unfortunate that people are so quick to take offence, particularly in this text-only medium which is so poor at conveying intent. In part I blame our society which is so quick to insulate us from any opportunity to be offended. Additionally, it there were any particular comments it the referenced thread which went beyond the bounds of the Code fo Conduct then they would have been taken care of.

Aubrey refused to clearify their cryptic statements to me when I enquired, shortly after their original post. In fact they have not even bothered to reply to my PM on the matter.