Sorry to be like this but the more I participate here the more discourage I get. There is so many different types of art here and all I'm interested in is photography. Yes, I dabbled into some of the other things to try and didn't really get into them. Don't get me wrong I don't mind checking out fractal and some other types of art here but I am limited to what I like. I'm a purist, that is how I was taught in photography class. When I joined here I thought there would be professional photographers grading our work. When I found out its everyone here I was disappointed. For the voting here I think its messed up. I go into the voting booth I get stuck voting on images I have no interest in what so ever, so I vote it high because I can’t be honest unless its in poor quality. I have uploaded some images here that took 1st place in a contest some where else and this contest is well respected by the professional photographers and here I get index at 40, then I did some looking and I found another image of basically the same thing but grainy and it indexed at 80. That to me is insulting that tells me people will vote high for there friends instead of being honest or don't know a bad one from a good one. This dishonesty or lack of knowledge of a type of art will give the artist the wrong impression and encourages them to continue creating things that are not so good. This site is suppose to help artist on how to improve. Or am I wrong about that? I apologize if I offended anyone.

I did however meet some awesome people here that a lone does make leaving here difficult but at the same time I need to find a site that's more into photography. I just don't have the time to spend here and another site. I do thank Caedes and all the staff for allowing me to experience this site, I did learn a few things and I do appreciate that. I request Caedes staff to please remove me for the members list 12-12-06 That way I have a little time to get e-mails from some of the people I have met here. Thank you and I wish you all the best.

Bill AKA Weed Hopper

Hello Bill,

I don't think I have had the pleasure of seeing your work, nor have we 'talked.'

But, I am aware of you, having come across your comments on other's images as well as responses from the recipients in those instances.

I can appreciate how difficult this decision must have been for you. As I have met some dear people on the site as well. And almost daily, enjoy the kidding and humour on the discussion boards, in addition to the help and information that is presented on some of the forums.

I'll try not be long-winded here, but I did want to assure that your post here did not get lost in the shuffle and is at the top of the page for your friends and staff to see.

If I may though, I would like to know your thoughts as to how things could be improved. There has been a recent addition of another forum ... namely the "Feature Bloat/Bug Squash" topic ... and I have been paying attention to the talk and discussions there and a number focus on the exact same things you make mention of that have left you feeling frustrated.

And I am not trying to put you on the spot here, just curious as to whether you have any ideas for improvement. I do find it somewhat disheartening to think that the C-Index is such a woe for a number of people. That is not all there is to your opinion, I understand that. Commentaries that are not helpful ... are simply, not helpful.

My own particular workaround that aspect was to cultivate some relationships with those artists whose opinion I do value. And much of those discussions and talks have occurred in PMs. Or private messages, if you will. I have grown and benefited greatly from those and am grateful for that.

Ok, now I am getting long-winded, lol. My middle name, at times ... or most times.

I do believe in time, a transition period, that the matters you address will come to the forefront. They are already being implemented. I know this. I have seen postings on some members' galleries to familiarize themselves with the policy of submissions and so forth, regarding so-called 'snapshots.'

The community here has usually operated quite well, in that the members police themselves with the aid of the site administrators and image mods. This may be a shortcoming of sorts, in that to remedy any 'problems' usually takes a bit more time before word gets out and is abided by.

Allow me to say this in closing then ... I hope you continue creating photos and find the fulfilment you are searching for ... if not here, then of the place of your choosing.

Best wishes and best of luck in your decision,

Les (aka purmusic).

purmusic, Thank you for your intelligent reply. I do appreciate your comment on me to continue here. Perhaps sometime in the future I will come back and hopefully by then this site had addressed the issue or issues I have mentioned. Unfortunately I don't have time to devote to this site to help. However, I do have a idea for the voting dilemma. I think every member should have to pick out the categories they like and if caedes can generate images for that person in the categories he or she has picked out that would eliminate people having to vote on categories they don't like or just simply don't understand. I also think members should be more limited to how many uploads as well. I’m thinking 2 uploads per week for non donators and maybe 4 for those that do donate. The other idea I have to is instead of voting pick 20 or more judges from the member list, now remember every member will have selected a category or categories of their interest so that's how the judges should be picked. Every month or 2 pick new judges so that way everyone eventually has done it. Or just pick members to vote that create quality art on a regular bases. I would prefer my last idea. Personally I think this site is flooded with stuff that is just not good at all. That I can prove, lol take a look at my gallery. I have weeded out my gallery a couple of times but its in need of it again.

As for commenting I think the problem is more that people are afraid to offend. For example; I'm looking at something you did and I noticed a pretty bad flaw, however there is 5 or 6 other comments not mentioning it. Some people are asking themselves is it me or is everyone else blind. If it was me I would mention it, I would say your image is decent but I think if this flaw wasn't there it would be a awesome post. Or is it that people just are not taking the time to actually look at it for more than 30 seconds. I usually look at each image for at least 3 to 5 minutes. If its photography I’ll go as far as to download it and use my software that’ll tell me what camera they used and what settings they used. that way if there is something wrong I can tell them what they did wrong, maybe....lol I’m not a professional photographer. (Yet) lol

Hope my ideas shed some light on what direction to go.

You have gone the extra mile here Bill ... thank you for taking the time. I appreciate your response and suggestions to my enquiries. You made some excellent points.

Now ... if only there were more than 24 hours in a day. ;o)

And if I may state for the record, I don't see how anyone could be offended by anything you have mentioned. You have been most gracious in your words, and most of all, sincere. That has to be appreciated and respected.

If not, rest assured I will take names ... and give them 0's in the voting booth. I am so kidding here, of course. Levity ... it's a good thing.

Well then, I will reiterate ... good luck on your journey behind the lens ... and hopefully our paths will meet again at some point.

Nice to have 'talked' with you Bill. :o)

p.s. I may jump back into the discussion ... so, no goodbyes. Plus, people might start to talk if I gave you a hug. :oP

Les, not long-winded...ummm...well you tried, you get a cookie for that Les.
Bill---
I am by no means a talented photographer, but I do know art. Please know that I vote based on many criteria, both technical and emotional (does it catch my attention, does it touch my heart in some way) Art is not completely technical, nor is it totally emotional. I have told friends that I don't like something, just as I have told those I don't know, that I do. I certainly understand your frustration, as it seems to be the same for many here. I would hope that in the future you at least stop by to say hello or give a comment on an image. Those of us who aren't photographers appreciate the input and help from those who are...how else will we learn to be better. I hope you find a site that is more to your needs, but please know that beyond being an art site, many of us here at Caedes are family...and that is where the difference is that makes Caedes special...and not just some photography site. I wish you the best, and hope to see you back here.

:(
What can I say....
it feels like Caedes is sinking......
I had Patty/ ResDesOK write and say she's leaving...and I never see my favorite kid on earth { Andrew} anymore....:( Now Bill is leaving....
This sucks.
* starts looking into luggage*

Not as long as we have you wickedly awesome manip's Terri!!!
I know that folks get frustrated, but the thing I like most about Caedes is that folks here are willing to help out. The warmth and openess of the people here and the amount of talent will always keep me coming back.

A few observations: I look at your gallery, albeit breifly, and personally I think that most of the images seem to have about the right score on them. I couldn't see anything rated below 50 that I would deem worthy of winning a contest on this stie, but perhaps there is a higher standard of competition here.

Keep in mind that with over 3000 regular members on the site it is quite impossible for the photographers who are up to that professional standard that you mention to give regular feedback to all the photographs posted on the site. This may come down to one of the other things you mention, the very large numbers of posts on the site and the number of second rate posts among them. Perhaps you are correct that a lower number of posts per week is the answer. When the site fisrt started no limit was actually imposed, but as the number of members has increased the allowance was introduce, first at two images per day for non paid members (if I remember correctly, it may have been more) then reduced to one; it is certainly possible, in fact I would say likely, that this will have to be reduced further as the number of members grows. We had also introdueced the snapshot policy to try to cull the worst of the second rate photographs, however this was put on hold after many people protested. The problem is that something that may seem secodn rate to you may be a genuine first attempt by someone who has just started photography, and these are probably the people who need feedback the most; if their images are just deleted then they will almost certainly give up in discouragement.

You mention that you don't have time to devote to the site to help; to me this might explain why you are not getting the feedback from professional standard photographers that you crave. You are more likely to get feedback from members if you take the time to get to know people, and provide feedback to other members, than if you just post a photograph and sit and wait for comments. You will probably find this no matter what website you join, or even if you join a hotographers club or similar. No one is likely to give you much help if you don't seem interested or dedicated. I am merely going by the comment you made, perhaps you have actually given feedback to people, I don't know, but I thought this might possibly be helpful. Please don't take anything I have said here as a criticism, but as a genuine attempt to help you understand why you might have foudn your experience here less satisfying than you expected.

Please be aware that memberships are never deleted, but if you wish to delete your images and leave a message on your profile that you are no longer active on the site you may do so. Personally I suggest you just leave it as is so it's waiting here for you if you change your mind later.

Sam...your reply is so on the money....tight-n-damned allright! :)
Not that your ego needs polishing....hahahaha
Bill....Patty....all escapees......take a deep breath......take a vacation....but please come back. The welcome mats will remain...and Jen can mix a mean margarita....and you can always play in the threads with us.

Bill, I for another one would feel terrible if you left. I can certainly understand your frustration, but I wish you would think about Sam's suggesstion. Just in case you change your mind .... no harm, no foul.

Since you're looking for a site more heavily into photography, have you looked at PhotoSig ?

It might be more what you're looking for & you could keep your account here & come over when you feel like playing.

It's a shame to hear that you're leaving... even though I never met you.

I agree; some people often just say nice things, and the next will say exactly what was above. I literally saw somebody who's reply was copied and pasted from the person above the other day.

If only I had a decent camera. There is a spider outside my window who just made an egg sack, and it is beautiful to see nature working well. However, my dad's FugiFilm F410 can't take great pictures, so you will have to go without seeing the wonders of nature for now.

Hope you come back soon Bill!

Gemma (gloopical)