Hey everyone,

So, I've been getting more and more into photography lately and I'm finally realizing how terrible my photographs (and camera!) are. I'm using an old hand-me-down Canon Rebel XS film camera and I'm tired of having to wait until I develop the photos to see what pictures I have captured. I figured I needed to look into digital cameras and I'm realizing how wide of a selection I have.

I've scanned the discussion board a bit and I've been looking at every camera mentioned so I wouldn't have to annoy you guys with another 'which camera should I buy' post, but I don't want to drop my savings on a camera and it not be the best for me. So I decided to ask all you pros out there which camera you would suggest.

I have about 500 dollars to spend and I wouldn't mind waiting to save a little more for a better camera, I just know I can't spend more than 900. I looked at the Canon Rebel XTi but another problem came to my attention. For about a year now I've been taking pictures of lightning and I desperately try to cover up my camera so it doesn't get soaked. I don't necessarily need a water proof camera, but just one that won't die the first night I use it. Even though water resistance is a big feature, it's not the only one I am looking for. I would like to get a camera that can take some serious photos, maybe even contest-worthy. I would also like to take pictures of several things, not just lightning.

Well that's about all I can think of, if you guys could help me out that would be WONDERFUL. I love all you caedes people!

Thanks again!

the camera doesn't "take" a contest worthy image .. the photographer does

;o)

water proof digital camera

haha you wouldn't be saying that if you saw the quality of my Rebel XS shots :P

For your rain concern perhaps you could try one of these out? link

Im not sure about the rebel but i know some of the dslrs have optional waterproof casings that one can buy. That might be worth looking into if you are really concerned.

Me on the other hand just try to find a little bit of shelter when doing some lightning. The back of a van, bus shelter, or whatever have worked in the past. For most cameras a little bit of water wont kill them.

you could take a look at the olympus e series DSLR's too - they are now all available with weather and waterproof casings for both the camera and lenses/flashes.

No idea what camera you should get, but....

i'd like to introduce an invention called: a plastic bag. You see, you cover the camera with it, and that's basically it. It protects from rain, sleet, snow, possibly dust, dirt, and grim .

Also, even though the camera/lens/etc says it's 'weatherproof/waterproof', i wouldent test it with a shiny new camera.

dont plastic bags tend to generate lots of condensation too?

Milo: The probrella looks like a good idea, I might check it out if I can't find an alternative. Usually I do try to find cover but sometimes I just can't find any so I have to get soaked :/.

philcUK: I looked at those Olympus e-series cameras and I like the E-410 and E-510, is the image stabalizer worth the extra 100 dollars for the E-510 or am I missing something? Get back to me on that when you have time because I'm interested. Also, could you send me a link to the waterproof casings you were talking about? I looked through Olympus's site but I couldn't find anything.

Thanks guys.

noahnott: might try that one too lol

i dont think so...unless the camera breaths. I think condensation happens most when you go from cold to warm (which is when you get the nice water droplets on the inside of your camera).

Anyways, i have no idea if your statement is true. :(

Note the olympuses E-410 and 510 (they're the DSLR's right?) have smaller sensors. They don't perform as well at high ISO's.

Anyways, have you checked out dpreview.com?

No, but I am reading it now. Do they note the sensor size under the specifications, or is that just something you are supposed to know?

condensation can occur without breathing :-)

'If equipment is moved from the cold into the warm environment, seal the individual components air tight in plastic bags in the cold place a towel under the gear in the camera before moving into the warm condition. Once inside a warm room, condensation will form on the inside of the plastic bag and will run down inside the bag, and the condensation is collected by the towel. Do not open the sealed bag prematurely, or condensation will form inside the camera gear incl. the lenses.

It only takes few degrees temperature difference to create condensation.

Once condensation forms on the inside of lenses, the damage is done and leaves many times spots on the inside of the lens elements.'

The sensor size is called the 'four thirds', or 4/3, or 4-3, i can't remember...or it's three fourths. Anyways, if you go to the specification page (should be page 2 on any camera review), it will say the name of the sensor size.

...anyways four thirds sensors have a crop factor of 2x. APS-C have crop factors of 1.5-1.6x. 35mm sensors (and EOS 5D) has a crop factor of 1x.

...also not that 'crop factor' is a controversial term.

owned :P

So I need to look for a sensor of what size? Yes, I do want the biggest (I think that's better, right?) if it is in my price range.

not really, i said if it breathes; then i said if you move from cold to warm (which is what we're concerned with atm). The temperature inside the plastic bag should be the same as the outside temp unless you have your hand on the bag and you used rubber bands to seal it off completely (which is overkill IMHO).

=P just trying to defend myself here. >_>

Well sensor size isn't everything. But, with todays models of four third sensor size cameras (like the E410, 510, and Lumix DMCL1 (which i was about to buy because i had a leica lens)) have more noise than that of a larger sensored camera.

But...canons usually have superior image quality over nikon; but not necessarily true if you know how to use neat image - which i don't. But anyways:

If you want low noise levels, canon will probably be your best bet. Just don't quote me on that. :) Nikons are definately more comfortable. Not sure how the other companies stack up though.

Alright, I'll do a lil' more research. Thanks noah

...in another response to phil, i must say that opening up the lens does no harm (maybe). So, don't worry too much about the spots on the inside. my dad and brother (and me) opened up our 80-200mm 2.8. Just use a lens pen, blow off the dust, and you're good to go. =P

noah - it it can form in between elements - no amount of blowing will get that off. if you do use plastic bags they should be as airtight as possible - but i wouldnt recommend it at all - just sounds like a big recipe for disaster. it would be very hard to regulate the temperature to try and stop condensation - there are many variables that are beyond control - the heat that the camera generates itself, air humidity, your hand temperature etc etc.

A bunch of people out there use shower caps, ziploc bags, and other items of the sort. I've used the plastic bag method a few times before (once in snow, once in rain) and nothing bad (or noticable) has happened. As long as the bag isn't air tight, but covers enough of the camera, and you take note of the changing temps (outside to inside) you should be fine.

I've looked online (again), and i haven't found many (actually, non so far) people who say plastic bags are bad.

PS: Who'd imagine me and him disagreeing on the issue of plastic bags.

PPS: I meant, he and I...or phil and I.

I know, imagine that, me taking exception to another spurious gem from the vaults of Noahworld. Presenting something as a de facto method supported only by ‘maybe’ and ‘IMHO’ neither validates it or particularly recommends it. Especially when it could prove hazardous to someone else equipment, by your own admission it doesn’t work, as you have already had to clear condensation spots from inside your lenses so chances are they are elsewhere in your camera. No amount of obtuse bleating or retrospectively altering your posts to cover your tracks will alter that. If you want to throw caution to the wind and use a very risky method to ‘protect’ your camera then fine – knock yourself out.

So your saying the two times i've done it in SNOW (that's like, below freezing) and the time i've done it it RAIN (thats like precipitation) without any condensation does not count as evidence that this method does work?

one guy who uses shower caps

Or this guy:

"Rob-- As a pro shooter, there are times when I have found myself in absolutely drenching rainstorms shooting news. Now, if I can stand there and get shots when my compatriots have packed it in to protect their equipment, I can make a lot more money. For that reason, I've invested in Aqua Tech gear for my cameras. It's pricey, but far cheaper than a repair job or a replacement on a D2x, and I made it back on a couple of shoots. A cover for a big digital SLR with something like a 70-200 2.8 on it will set you back over $200, but there's nothing else cheaper that will do the job. B&H and Penn Camera carry them.

For light rain the clear plastic bags will do OK. I usually use two of them for insurance. I cut out a hole for the lens in the closed end, and use the open end for camera access. I tape the lens hole to the lens hood with bookbinders tape, which still grips like crazy in wet conditions.

Happy shooting. -BC-"

Or this guy:

"Problem: Spring showers rain on my parade, my camcorder and me.
April showers might bring May flowers, but those showers can also bring fried circuit boards, wet record heads and possibly a dead camera should you be caught in a sudden downpour. Water and electronics are mortal enemies. However, if you must shoot in the rain, there are ways to do it.

Solution: No camera rain cover? No worries. At the first sight of rain, insert the camera into a large plastic bag with the opening at the bottom. Cut a hole near the top for the lens, poke it through and tie the plastic down with rubber bands. Using a clear, loose- fitting bag allows you to see the LCD screen and reach all of the camera buttons. (See the Gear For All Seasons sidebar for more gear packing tips.) Also, seek cover from the rain under an awning, tree or even the raised hatch of a minivan or SUV. I've used variations on this method in several hurricanes with great results. However, at the first sign of lightning, head indoors immediately. Lightning is awesome to capture on tape, but there are some tips to doing it right, see the sidebar for those."

or from outdoor photographer website:

"6) Camera Rain Cover. I did shoot a bit from under an umbrella. I’ve often done this, including in the temperate rain forests of the Pacific Northwest. However, I can see how someone with a long lens photographing tropical birds (and there are great ones in Costa Rica, including toucans and parrots) would find a full camera-and-lens rain cover really great protection. Kata (distributed by Bogen Imaging) makes some adaptable and easy-to-use rain covers for this purpose. When you’re setting up or refining where to place your camera, you may want to try putting a shower cap on your camera and lens (this won’t work for long telephotos). That’s a quick and simple way of gaining some protection from water. Start collecting shower caps from the hotels and motels you visit. "

Here is when you get condensation: "... Condensation when returning indoors is a sincere issue not addressed by Rain Jackets or any other similar product. In addition to those, it's almost mandatory that you carry plastic garbage bags. Put your camera bag in one and the camera in another, squeeze out the air and seal before bringing the gear indoors. Once everything has warmed to indoor ambient you can open the bags without concern. Omit the plastic bags, and you'll learn what condensation looks like inside lenses and bodies.
..."

Furthermore: "as you have already had to clear condensation spots from inside your lenses so chances are they are elsewhere in your camera" - i did not open up my lens b/c of condensation. My brother dropped the lens, glass from the UV filter got inside the groves. The comment i made about opening up the lens was pointless though - but it is possible to open up a lens if you're impatient to wait to send it in for cleaning. *edit* If you're too impatient to send it in for cleaning IF there is some gunk in there b/c of the condensation.

I think we need a third party...it's going to be hard to change (not that you wanted to) my religious point of view on the issue of plastic bags.

PS: also note that i could be wrong...and i'll smack myself in the forehead once it hits me.

as I said - im all done - knock yourself out.

*knocks myself out* Well....ummm....so....er....yes so where are you now in your search for a camera greg? >_>

hahaha, well I'm amused by this plastic bag conversation you guys are having, but I think I've got my eyes on the Canon Rebel XT. I know it's older, but it's around my price range and it'll be something nice to start out with. As for the water resistance I have found a couple of waterPROOF cases which, in my opinion, would be overkill. But if it comes down to it, I may just invest in one. Or I could just find shelter all the time and save some cash. You guys think the Rebel XT is a good starter? Let me know! Thanks.

The Rebel XT is a very good starter.

ahhh the Nikon D40X just was brought to my attention, any thoughts? Seems cheaper and I was told it out performed the Canon XT(i)

I believe the XTi outperforms the D40 at higher ISOs, but the D40 is more comfortable and feels less like a toy...

...note that i've never touched the D40 or D40x; but i have touched the XTi and the D50.

Have you looked at the Pentax K100d and K110d...or maybe even the K10d?

Also look at the available lenses for each camera mount.

thank ya sir, i'll check it out and get back to you guys

I was acctually recently suprised by the d40x. I was in the store and thought i would play around with it abit even though my expectations were not very high. But it was very intuitive, and in the short time i played with it, i was easily able to figure out where everything was. Something that can't be said for all dslrs i've played with.

Anyways, that is all very subjective. Here is a link you might find useful. It is a review on the d40x, and at the end i compares it to a few competitors, the xti being one them.

Well after careful review of every single digital SLR out there and an even more careful review of my checkbook I've decided to go with a Nikon D40X. Hopefully it will do me some good and will help me learn a good deal about photography. I think some guys from Nikon are coming into my town and holding a class specifically for the D40X. So that should help me as well. I appreciate everyones help, and I'm sure I'll be posting again soon with more questions :)

Congratulations, I’m sure your going to love it.

probably too late but for ~1000$ you can get a 30D or to save some money there are still some discontinued 20D's out there.