I received the following:
>>Your recently uploaded image (Roger That) has been rejected >>by an ImageMod.
>>Here at caedes.net we are interested in creating and sharing >>high quality images for use as desktop wallpaper. In order to >>make your desktop finding experience as efficient as possible >>we have instituted a number of policies intended to increase >>the signal-to-noise ratio of the galleries. We feel "snapshot" >>type photographs are of little interest to most users of the >>website and do little to enlighten the artistic minded >>visitor. Therefore we have decided to discourage users from >>uploading such images. Your recent image upload was rejected >>for this reason.

With the amount of post processing that I put into this to achieve a '60s look, using techniques put forth in 2001 and numerous photo magazines of the time, I feel that this is no more a snapshot than than many of the fractal images and oof children's pictures that have appeared in the VB. Who's the Hitler who made that decision to stifle creativity.

I pulled and tugged on the controls of the attached photo until I created what I think is a surreal image in the spirit of "2001" and Popular Photograpy magazine of the '60s.

I made arrangements for a $2.4 million business jet and the use of a friend's daughter, and a brightly lighted hangar, played with the light and reflections to get the attached grainy, surreal image, only to have it called a snapshot.

The false-color shadows and graininess, along with the myriad of reflections on the cockpit of the AeroCommander, exemplified that the works era and was considered art in its day, and should be considered art, today.

Let the VB decide the worth, not a know-nothing censor.

do you think it's in your best interest to throw rocks and hurl insults?

we are making an effort to redirect the site back to its charter focus, that of being a premium desktop wallpaper source ... everybody that has images rejected feels that they were wronged .. and "what about all the other images I see that are worse than mine"

it is the opinion of THIS know-nothing censor .. that a child sitting in the cockpit of a plane is of limited value, except to those associated with that child ... THAT is the basis for most rejections of child-based images ...

It is possible, in this censor's view, that an image can be put forward that conveys emotion and power .. an image that reaches the hearts and minds of thousands of people .. photographers have done it since the caveman days ... but, your image was not such an image .. in the view of THIS Hitler

This Hitler who, I might add, didn't reject your image .. but would have, had his computer not crashed

A child engaging in a childhod dream has no less than children on a poster, or have you forgotten the value of goals, however fanciful they may be

A child engaging in a childhod dream has no less value than children on a poster professing childhood innocence, or have you forgotten the value of goals, however fanciful they may be.

I have not forgotten anything .. I weigh all images by many factors, too numerous to list

but .. you should not be engaging in the art of photography for the sole purpose of posting to Caedes.net .. you should be doing so, to satisfy your inner childhood dreams ... so implying that you went to all of this "expense" and "bother" to make a post to a website ... is false, unfair, and a little "dreamless" on your part .. don't try to guilt us into feeling bad because you produced an image for your friends who have a daughter who dreams, one day, of being a pilot ... you succeeded in that project

having done similar projects for friends, over the years ... and having had images of my own rejected here @ caedes ..

I understand your views ... please understand our views

Reading the above discussion, think it's pretty hard to give an objective opinion as I didn't see Don's rejected image. Therefore my opinion is based on the recent posts of Don and what I saw at Caedes in the past.
To me Don is a professional putting an extremely lot of effort in converting analog images of the 1980's into the digital format. What I saw up till now is very good work. I gave it even in my comments the qualification 'Time documents'. So, based on that experience, I can hardly image that this professional has posted a snapshot like image, but I have to repeat, that I didn't see the rejected image.
On the other hand I have to say that I saw images (I'm talking now only about photographs and not about other art work like abstracts, fractals, and so on) at Caedes who hardly earns the title image. Even blurry and unstraightened B&W images made with a cheap mobile telephone and a quality level lower dan 'snapshot' were accepted.
I really can image that Don is angry now. On the other hand think that it wasn't the Image Mod's goal to hurt Don anyway. But his decision is arbitrary the more that other Image Mods seem to use other standards.
Cornelius

Well I can view the image and I completely agree that it would be regarded as a snapshot.

And this is a privately owned website and the owner can choose whatever they wish to be displayed here, so claims of censorship really don't apply... just as if someone wanted to display their image on MY website, and I didn't want it there.

Really thought that Caedes is a close community of artists, designers, and photographers who share their work through the medium of computer desktop wallpaper. Thought also that everyone can feel free to browse the galleries, comment on other's work, and even submit own art when they're ready to do it.
Reading the comment of Samatar I have to change my mind as this is a privately owned website of which the owner can choose whatever they wish to be displayed here.
My proposition is to change the Caedes home page that way, as it will prevent further misunderstanding.
Cornelius

Point well taken, Sam. It is privately owned to dupe us the public out of our "donations".

I don't like Picasso. I personally think that any 3-yr-old's fingerpainting would surpass most of his work. It may offend my taste, but it is a form of expression known as "art". For me to label it scribbling or a snapshot and refuse to publish in a puportedly public venue because I don't like it so that it may be pigeonholed would be an abuse of power no less that Hussein, Stalin, Hitler, Caligula, Nero, or any other despot.

I have no illusions, childhood or otherwise. Only the reasonable expectation of equitable treatment.

I understand both sides and points of view. I am sure that Don, you were proud of your photograph. I also see why the mods would take out certain pictures. I did not see the picture of controversy, so if Don, you could send it to me, that would be great! My email address is roadrunner5432@hotmail.com If I can see it, I can be a better judge of the situation.
~Emily

Thanks for expressing you opinion.

I am more upset at the arbirtrary nature of the rejection that the rejection. I'm more upset with being ignored when I expressed my grievance.

If I had been trying to giver a donation, I would have received an instant reply. Absolutely no courtesy was extended for a grievance. I suppost that is better than a discourteous response.

Shortly before the rejection arrived, I voted on a photo, Symbol of Innocense .
I suppose on image is a snapshot, but two out-of-focus and one acceptable image pasted together as one is a wallpaper.

I made the mistake of "donating" to Caedes. You can be assured that I will not renew my support next year.

Fool me once, shame on you. Fool me twice, SHAME ON ME.

Interesting thread here..... I have been to many forums on the web and have run a few myself as well as maintaining my own websites and that of a society I am a member of. Since I do not have any control over the forums I visit, I treat them like going to visit another Country where I would have little control over their rules/laws. All have various rules/laws. If the rules/laws are too restrictive or I do not agree with them, my visit is not a long one. I did not see your photo either Don as it had been rejected prior to my viewing it. I would recommend to you opening up a photo site on the website called "Flickr" through Yahoo.com. Be sure to invite all of your friends to check out your wonderful photography there and give comment. Just a thought.

Stan

I doubt that describing the sites administrators as know nothing fascist dictators will go toward currying any favour at all. Regardless of the effort that you say you put into it – that is not the issue that is in question – it is the choice of subject matter. The sites guidelines and rules are extremely clear on the matter with one of its primary edicts being that the site shouldn’t be used for distributing friends and family photos. Because many people choose to raise themselves above petty considerations like complying with the rules they say they have when they upload an image, does not mean it is either acceptable or allowable. There are exceptions to rules governing people photography in that, portraits of established members here are permitted in a community spirit move to let each other put faces to names and more random portraits that are in photojournalistic, artistic or other style that will be of wider interest from an artistic point of view. The rejected image you are referring to falls into none of these categories so was clearly a candidate for rejection.

The large volume of images that require rejection for code violations prohibits the ability to further explain the decision at the moment although that may be one of the things that changes soon. In the meantime, as has been discussed in many areas on many occasions, members have a degree of personal responsibility for the images they upload in ensuring that they are complying with the rules. Clearly it is far easier to blame someone else for your own shortcomings than to acknowledge you may have made an oversight either deliberately of by mistake - but railing on about draconian censorship and ‘duping’ members is frankly both immature and uncalled for. Does it say anywhere on the site that if you give us cash you can use it as a file sharing facility for your family? No. Does it say anywhere that the site has a code of conduct relating to general behaviour, acceptable image content and snapshot policies? Yes. Did you acknowledge you had read all of these and understood them when you uploaded your snapshot? Yes. Go figure.

RE: being ignored when I expressed my grievance

ignored means .. what? .. your image wasn't re-instated?


you've been a member since Nov. 25 07 .. you have 39 images posted ... one image is turned away at the door for dress code violations ... and YOU call us Hussein, Stalin, Hitler, Caligula, Nero ..

and you want it known that you are NOT going to donate again

a donation is not a purchase of anything ... certainly not the right to demean Picasso or the administration of this site

you chose to support a site operated by the likes of Hussein, Stalin, Hitler, Caligula, Nero, and all other despots, because you obviously enjoy name dropping and name calling all rolled up into one convenient location

proving only that you're a cantankerous old man that feels we should tremble at your accusations .. and bend to your will, because we said an image you posted wasn't acceptable ... what do you do when McDonald's says the shake machine is down for maintenance? .... are they, then, the Hitlers? ... somebody cuts you off in traffic = Nazis?

Discourteous

any more so than calling someone a fascist? I think not.

I think there has been too much hidden name calling on both sides of the fence now. Move along please.

Have to agree, we're all gonna get nowhere gripin' at each other about this. Too many discussions as such drag on forever and everyone involved just gets bitter. I have seen too many great things from all of you and can't bear to have someone leave due to an argument.

I do understand the snapshot rules and think, it is important, rules like that exist. But should it not be also a question of the quality of the photo, not only if there is a child on it or not? I think it is a bit a problem, who will decide about the future of a photo - one moderator think it is fine, the other one sees a snapshot in it. And I already noticed, that it is easier to get an image with a young, pretty woman on it through, than a photo of any other human being.

It is also easier to get a nice green landscape through than a dried up image of a urban settling pond. Thanks for moving along;-)

Ignored means no reply. Not just once, either.

Cutting someone of in traffic is discourteous, as well as dangerous. I gave the rest of the tirade its due.

The picture point is moot, now. The father has withrawn his release.

The point of unilateral dismissal with a form letter without recourse still stands.

The point of failure to reply to a grievance in a timely matter still stands.

I chose to present the grievance to you in a private manner.
The administration, or at least, its agents chose to ignore it on more than one occasion. That upset me far more than the rejection.

This ended in the public forum because of Caedes inaction. I wish to thank those who participated by expressing their views.

As for demeaning the site? The representatives of the ownership did an excellent job of that with little or no help from me.

Please forgive me for not being politically correct in this matter. I never learned how to pick up a turd by the clean end.

I had my photo taken off and so what!! Suck it up and move on! There are so many ways to create art, make another one. Not every website is perfect. I admire the hard work that the mods do. Both sides bennefit from Caedes.net, If I didn't like it here, I would leave. There will always be a few that slip thru the cracks, Lets not look at thoughs, Let's make other ones. If the rules will make me a better photographer, Then so be IT!! and if I get in the way...kick me out!! It is the right of Caedes.net to reject any photo and I respect that! and I think we all should. With respect for all, ~Imua Paaaina

Don, as a group of volunteers, how can we help you?

From the code of conduct (which you are required to agree to as a condition of becoming a member of the site):

"Unacceptable subject matter for images such as pornography, nudity, gratuitous wildlife copulation, registered trademarks, copyrighted material, screenshots of games, frames from a movie or television show, and pointless snapshots are not encouraged and may be rejected."

What more explanation is needed?

Regarding roseman_stans comment on joining flickr: it is precisely to avoid becoming one of those sites filled to the brim with literally millions of family snapshots, photos of peoples pets etc. that the snapshot rule is enforced.

Of course you can choose to disagree with the sites judgement on whether something is a snapshot or not, but you must accept that it is entirely at the administrations discretion to make such a decision.

Surely you didn't expect that throwing a tanty and resorting to name calling was going to achieve anything???

I think just about everyone on this site has an image or 2 rejected you just have to move on and learn from the experience.. also just because you donate to the site does not give you the right of way to upload anything that you want, it still has to go through the process like everyone else..

The high quality and amazing art is what brought me here, then I discovered it was a place to learn too.. I for one would hate to see it turn into a "flickr site" place for snapshots both photo and CG..

~raises hand~

Yup, I've had a few here 'n' there rejected...some even posted then taken off. Oh well, I'm still havin' fun!! That's for sure!!

I think everyone needs to chill out a bit.. not take things too seriously.. in 100 years no one will care about this :D And I don't want to flame anyone or get involved in an argument, but in my opinion this site Is far from perfect.. and has a lot of things that need to be worked on.
But in reality I take pictures because I love to take them, I love to work on them, and I post a few on caedes just for peoples honest opinions.
I can definitely see where you are coming from Don, having an image that you consider art and that you put a lot of work into turned away, when there are literally thousands of horribly bad true snapshots on this site must be a kick in the face.
But then again, the mods are honestly trying to make the site better. I think that increasing the image filtering SUBSTANTIALLY and deleting at least half of all the pictures on the site would make this place a lot better. I'm not saying that yours should have been filtered, however if it means that they will be cleaning this place up a bit, and they have way too many of an image i try to upload, and it gets rejected... well maybe its for the best.
Mods might want to remember that WE the photographers and artists, some of us that get paid a lot of money for our shots, but give them freely here, make this site what it is, so insulting us isnt exactly a great idea, even when some of us might get a little upset.

Peace, respect
Jah Bless

what do you expect? we are all know nothing fascists so I'm lead to believe ;-)

Spamming members' pages to drag them into this wasn't exactly a class move. As one member to another, cut the immature crap, please.

Oh come on! Can you all leave your egos at the door and stop with the names in either direction and pat down your feathers, please? This is unbecoming to all of you and it is the time for new beginnings, so God Bless you All!

Thank you cynlee, very well said.

I'm a bit late to this discussion, but I wanted to see the image for myself before commenting or reading any other comments other than the original post.

I took a long hard look at the image and I must agree with the decision to reject the image. To me it definitely would fall in the snapshot category to anyone who doesn't have a personal attachment to the little girl. The graininess and reflection of light distracts rather than enhances the image, especially if you take wallpaper use as a large deciding factor.

As one of the supposed "know nothing censors" I would also like to point out that many factors are taken into consideration when approving an image.

Rejected images are discussed amongst the mods, so a rejected image is hardly just based on one opinion. It has happened that an image was rejected and later reinstated after some deliberation, but cases like those are few and far between.

The system is definitely not perfect, but we are working very hard to make it better. Currently we try to give people the benefit of the doubt if images are seen as "borderline snapshots"... especially if a member is still new and learning the ropes. Some snapshots do get through but often it's for allowing the member to learn from feedback. These image are normally quickly archived.

In the last month roughly 3-4% of uploaded images have been rejected as snapshots. This could be much higher, but we feel there should be a place for people who want to learn while they share some of their works. Many of us have improved our skills as a direct consequence of participating here on Caedes.

Being stricter with uploads would undoubtedly cause a much larger outcry of "censorship", however this might become necessary to retain the quality of the site.

Posting images to Caedes.net and having them accepted is a privilege, not a right. You agree to the CoC each time you upload an image.

Hi. Lets have peace. Okay? No more names, just forgive and forget! When we all do that, yay!!! Happy days are here again!!! :) OKay, so everyone please have a very happy new year!

~Emily :)

I've had a couple images rejected, but as everyone else has said "let's just move on". I did not see the image, and you are welcome to send it to me via email if you like. verenabloo1@yahoo.com Throwing the tennis ball back and forth accomplishes nothing. I think it's nice that we can all share
our opinion, but name calling isn't ever good. Talking with tact and trying to reason and grow from the process is what's important. We are all artists in one form or another, we all think thru what our photos or art is trying to convey to others. That's all we can do. If we doubt at all what our photo means I think there is a little line I learned long ago
that might apply here "If in doubt, leave it out." I wish you well Don, please just learn from this and continue to post your creations. It truly is just a learning process. Verena

Very well said, let us leave it at that. :)


~Emily :)

I have been a member for a while now too.. not that I am the best , as I see some beautiful art here.. and always try to do something different and unique..and yes I have been rejected too, and for the right reasons and was explained to me on why.. my hats off to evryone above me, they are always willing to help with questions i may have... and always willing with pointers too. this is a great website due to all the rank and file here on caedes... your all doing a wonderful job...

steven:)

I dont normally get involved in verbal combat, but I found this exchange to be healthy, revealing and informative. I noticed some unique actions that I think all contributors need to be aware of: A protest was posted, and it was answered within the first 30 min. I like that! Thats a faster response time than I would get anywhere else, try protesting to AT&T. Followed by more (less than Diplomatic) comments, but, the participants were able to say what was on their mind with "no censorship". I like that! What I also find interesting is that "the Mods" who work independently of each other, came to unanimous conclusion. I like that! That tells me, the guidelines they were given to follow, were clearly defined, because they all understood them. Had they been broad and open to personal interpretation, I am sure there would of been a different outcome. Another interesting point clearly presented was the cost and effort a contributor endured to produce a finished product. Seems to me that the key word here is contributer. Dosent make a whole lot of scene to spend a ton of time and money just to contribute a product for free distribution, unless maybe they considered CAEDES to be of such classy stature, that it was worth all the effort. If it was worth all the effort to post on CAEDES, then shouldn't CAEDES be even more selective in what they allow to be posted. I think so! As far as the content of the protest and replies, Iv heard worse coming from the floor of the United Nations, Parliament, Senate and the Rosie Odonell Show. Just goes to prove this site has class. I think after viewing Mr Dons gallery, that he is a gifted and productive Photo Artist, I hope he continues to share his wonderful work with us. Finally, I thought I wanted to make a comment on Artistic Expression, but after thinking about it, I feel that the time would be better spent if we discussed the benefits of soft toilet tissue instead.

Okay, I like Scot the best, it's probably the most economical too.

When I sit in my computer chair to write these comments, I dont want the tender skin of my gluteus to influence my mood. Cant have that, I prefer Northern, because it does the job without irritation. Only virgin paper is ever used for this important function. NO! NO! none of that recycled crisper than crackers tissue for my tender glute's. Did you know that there are creative artists who fish these discards from their receptacle, and proudly display them as Artistic Expression! Oh My Gosh !!!