I have an idea that might help to encourage good comments on images. I've made a list of good commenting members and we would give free Cadre membership to the top ten members each week. Here is a working prototype of such a list.

This is a grand idea. I think it will surely encourage people to truly "think" about the comments they give, not just words such as "nice..good..sharp...etc etc" That's what its all about..to encourage one another and to learn from each other. The Cadre membership is a good idea also...it will inspire others...I guess I love posting two photos a day too..selfish of me I know, but I enjoy so much having to choose from all my own photos...it makes me pay more attention to them. I kinda like the point system Jeffo mentioned also...Keifer? YOU are the showoff!! haha..that cute baby makes me smile every time..and then you say "Well, now you're showin off" about the Baysian...what in the world IS Baysian???..........I think this whole thing is a great and encouraging idea!!!

im going to throw my two cents here. First off i would like to say im furious that im only 35. Ok, just kidding, but i could see this becoming a problem with some members. The formula for the c-index was always questioned and it wasn't even as complicated as something like this i would think. If it can be pulled off in a way that isn't going to bring 100 questions a week to the discussion board about how its calculated and how its not fair and such its a great idea.

Also not to pull this thread out of topic, but it was mentioned twice about not being able to view full size till you comment. I would like to say that is a very bad idea since you can not appreciate an image well enough to make an educated comment on exposure, focus and many other things until you have downloaded it.

Agreed...It only makes sense that a person views an image full size BEFORE they vote on that image. Instead, I like the idea of keeping the c-index hidden until after a person votes.

Seems like one concern for many here is the low number of votes that images receive. Many people are obviously commenting but not voting. Could people be required to VOTE before they comment or do people like the freedom to be able to comment but not vote? In addition, a number of people (including myself) have commented that they really value comments that offer critique (both positive and negative.) What Caedes is suggesting would provide incentive to people to take the time to offer such comments. People shouldn't be required to comment, but they COULD be REWARDED in some small way for taking the time.
Wen

Yes, good incentive for effective comments...but I still believe that the majority of members will continue to comment as they have been. And a small group of motivated commentators will go to the extreme to make their comments zealously complete and useful (as they should be) in order to gain the prize. Regardless, I bet those comments will be worth it.

A change in the design of the vote option to make it more obvious or easy would probably increase the number of votes if it were an issue.
Sarah

Yeap, seems like a popular idea.

Very god idea, caedes! Positive reinforcement is a good road to walk down. Not restricting or demanding stuff. (Wohoo... I'm in place 54 despite my lack of time... ^_^)

*flurbles at not being on list* lmao...no worries.....*must comment better*

i think its an exellent idea. are the top ten calculated by how long each person has in the top ten, because the top ten are constantly changing? when will it start to be used?

I'm glad that the idea is well received so far. Keep in mind that the current ordering is not the final version, so it will most likely change.

Have you thought about awarding a symbol at the end of a username so that it can be spotted in the users on line column? Perhaps a ! or <

Maybe Caedes might share his *...

Kilie,
Members with a cadre membership (no matter how they receive it) get a "::" just like you have, putting another symbol at the end of a name doesn't make much sense.

Just trying to think of a way to spot a top ten without checking a list

make it ":::::::::::::::"

I agree with Andy and is this thing already in affect?

When it goes into effect it will be announced on the home page where all major site changes, news, and contests are posted.

Oh, ok, thanks.

Top marks from me to caedes for an interesting new idea!...I like it...as I understand it, it is not just the quantity of comments made but rather the quality...taking a little more time to offer a more thoughtful commentary and where possible, some constructive feedback...given the recent disputes over the nature and brevity of some comments, this should be somewhat helpful in alleviating that problem and the offer of a free Cadre membership certainly creates some incentive...perhaps too, an interesting by-product of this would be that while members are more inclined to make 'good' or constructive comments on the work of others, they will also be more inclined to critique their own work more closely, all of which can only be an improvement that we'd all benefit from...one thing I wonder though...as someone above mentioned, the reward of a Cadre membership may remind or encourage more people to donate, and I hope it does, but I do hope that it doesn't lead to a situation where people are so concerned with being awarded a membership that they forget or don't consider donating...other than that thought, it's a great idea and certainly worth giving it a shot.:Pat.

Will it be a new heading? Under navigation perhaps?

I love it I love it! I can already see the more interesting comments and more of them. That's sooooooooooo nice....to see.............sure makes it more interesting to read them and to study the photos more...This is already catching on! woohoooooooo!!!

Yea, I've seen it to, much better comments are being given! This idea has changed everyone I think!

I'm not on the list....it must be broken already. =0)

lol..and you have the massive Karma.

I hope it does work. I am trying ot make more comments but I'm not on this site for a week at a time then I have to spend a while catching up.

Oh Drats!! broken already??? nooo way..did they forget you? they COULDN"T have!!! yesss indeed Massive Karma!! that must be IT..he has tooooooo much karma!!!!

Wooohoooo I found ya!! You are numero 80!!!! yayyyyyyyy

The top 93? That doesn't sound very inspiring ;-). Seriously though, nice idea, though I don't like that appalling large red font for the top 10.

I'll start peppering my comments with words like 'composition' and 'palette'... Will the Bayesian filtering deduct points for excessive exclamation marks and capital letters ;-)

Maybe you would like a different colour? or a prettier font? any suggestions? ^_*...but I do have to say...they are a bit on the HUGE side and a bit of STOP LIGHT RED is goin'...maybe it could be made just a tad bit more humble? :)

This is a good idea! When does it start?

How embarrassing, I didn't even make the list! I guess I will have to make up for that and spend less time on those other, less important things (ie working, family time, sleeping etc...)

What were you thinking?!?!?

*hangs head in shame*

Hehe! Same for me... ;-)
I think I spend a lot of time to comment and I don't find my name... Maybe it concerns my vacation period (2 last weeks of july)?

It doesn't count short comments at all.

there's me :D yay! :))
i'm so happy now :)

So how does this work? Does some poor bugger have to look at every comment a person makes during the week to see who has posted the best or most useful ones and then go away and re-populate the list?
This all sounds very complicated to me but I think it's an excellent idea :]

Wooo, 25...not bad ^_^

Oh, wait...I just read the bit about the text filtre ^_^
So does that mean if we all post long, random strings of words like "Excellent, effect, composition, improvements, well done...bla bla bla" that we could be given a high rank :P
And I take it these memberships will last a week, yeah?

Someone has probably already mentioned this, but will the calculations incorporate whether or not people actually bother to vote/download on an image as well as just flooding the field with comments? If your going to be awarded a Double Colon for free you should put a little effort into it.... after all, a gratis Double Colon is not to be sniffed at! (I can’t believe I just said that...)

Don't mean to repeat a questioned that probably won't be answered but, does anyone know when this starts?

"sniff sniffing" at PHil... and Andru? I think it already started? I mean it sure seems like people are commenting more..and there is a "list" of people telling where they are on the number chart..oh gosh, i hate numbers and letters..especially BIG RED ONES!!!!(after all, how can we all remain humble is we are in large red words eh?!!)

It isn't in effect yet, it has not started, it will be announced on the front page.

You could say that I'm the only one who knows that no one knows when it will start.

Caedes, I have a question, if this is supposed to be a weekly thing, why are the results updated daily?

no reason

O ok.

Dear Caedes.
I think it is a good idea. Could there be any way to track the feedback people get and as a consequence look @ the improvements certain comments achive?

As far as I know " a working prototype" would be: well a prototype is a example of what is to come...it is the first one made...and if it is a working prototype, wouldn 't that mean it is already in progress? Either way, caedes will get it going soon.

Hey I'm at no. 18 now... it's going to be hard to keep that up...

I think it's easier to up than down.

Hey I've just thought...you know when you say this is being calculated by some sort of text filtre...does that mean that it includes *every* comment you make on this site ? Even things like replies to say thanks or discussions, etc?

That's a good question! I dropped :( More comments to make!

It only counts comments on images.

I've begun to get impatient, bad I know, do you think this'll go in effect within a month?

picture in your mind a peaceful waterfall .. there is a doe, a deer, a female deer. .. Ray, a drop of golden sun. Me, a name I call myself. .. Fa, a long, long way to run!

patience, grasshopper

I've become patient, thank you Keith!

Woohoo! Only five more spots to move up and I WiN!!!

Not that I am competitive at all...

No winners yet!!! such a bunch of comedians//clown here! ahhhh what does one believe in?!

9 days since this started, correct? No news on a start day or anything, sorry about being impatient but I just am.

I went back up to 4, I'm so happy!

I've not decided on a final way to calculate the comment "quality," and until I decide that I won't be able to put the script into production.

Ok, hope your brilliant mind figures something out :)

Is this a working list yet? maybe in slow motion?

*flurbles quietly....orders a drink from the bar*

#3! I have to make it to #1!

On the outside I think this is really a great idea....but I see it becoming a competition. I have no pictures on the site, but if I did I know I wouldn't want a bunch of "fluffy" comments that didn't provide me with anything constructive just so someone could win a free pass and say they were #1 this week. Think if it is your work getting all this praise so that the "Bayesian text classification monster" can hand out free goodies......how do you know for sure that your work then has merit? Or would you want your critisism to be shrugged off because artists think you are only trying to increase your BTCM numbers?
My sister "yodergoat" posts her work here and I know how she is..."Hit me with the facts, good or bad." Please don't sell yourselves short for "more good comments" instead shoot for "more" comments....even the "I don't like this and heres why" has merit.

"Good" comments don't have to be "fluffy," yet empty, compliments. To the contrary. In my view, good comments offer a constructive critique of the image. To be sure, that would include noticing the pluses of the image but it could also include constructive criticism...meaning not just saying you don't like something but telling them why you don't like something and offering helpful suggestions for improvement. "Good" comments are both encouraging and helpful.
Wen

I should have said "constructive."

*is constructive....have built roof to prove it* :D

Seriously I aim to be constructive in all my comments.

I am a bit worried about the competition side of it too...plus there are people leaving caedes now, and I dont think that should happen....we all try our best and we like to know we make progress or not make it..but either way, I firmly believe that we all need to kind of know how we are doing with our various creations. What is the harm of having the C index somewhere so people can check if they wish.........or dont check if they dont wish..right?

The description of the list says "If you are not in the list then you have not made a qualifying comment in the last week." I have made several constructive comments in the last couple of weeks but I do not see my name on the list. Is this a glitch to be worked out later? Not that I am complaining. I am just curious. I believe there is way too much complaining going on these days...it is a free site after all.

Y0ur name isnt on the list anywhere?? oh those caedes folks are sleeping again!!

Hi Caedes
well this idea I like.
and maybe you can leave number 1 to 5 out of the voting...there is no post, at least I haven't ever seen around here thats worth a 1 or 2.
If people don't like a post...just don't vote.
We are all here for fun and lots of us making great efford to post and comment.
So please let us respect eachother...If we can't do so, here in this tiny microcosmos which Caedes is....we should be ashamed of ourselves.
For me...I hope on many more years of fun in Caedes and enjoying the contacts with more and more people around here.
Lets all make an efford to make this a nice place to be.

with kind regards

Paul

Huzzah! I am now on the list. Nothing like seeing your name on list!

WEll as long as its not on the "most wanted, dead or alive" list..................then you're ok...

How exactly does this work?

I've not said exactly how the ranking is currently determined.

Ok..

Off the list again yet I have made many constructive comments in the last few days. Is this a glitch in the system?

it's groo2k profiling ... commenting while groo

We can call it the Groo2k Exception Rule (GER).

I see you are now at no. 55 Robert.

Ahh...back on the list.

Oooh oooh I'm number 6!! *jumps up and down excitedly*

ooooooooooops you fell a spot downward..seven now? tsk tsk you are slipping!!

A 'constructive' suggestion ...

Don't know if you plan to ... however, once this list is in place ... link the names to their favourites, or barring that ... the images they viewed in that time period of the 'contest?' Something relevant anyways, and I would think by doing this, even more images would be viewed and more feedback posted.

Great idea, and although my comments have been made altruistically, to let the creators know of my appreciation and secondly, to further some dialogue and increase my own understanding ... I was tickled to see my name 'up in lights.'

Last 'constructive' criticism ... how about the top 13? The top ten seems so, hmm, conventional.

Why isn't the list placed under the Nav bar for easier viewing? And great idea!

Yes, it is a good idea to encourage better comments. However, I do understand that sometimes people are busy, tired, etc.....so maybe they have a good reason for not leaving more lengthy, quality comments. Personally, I really appreciate even the short "nice job" ones..... I'm afraid if this is put into place, then the "nice job" comments may cease. Don't get me wrong, I do really enjoy it when someone gives me helpful feedback....many people here have helped me tremendously. I just think short comments are better than no comments. It's hard enough to get people to vote. I've seen some images with 200+ downloads and not enough votes to get a c-index rating. It takes less time to vote than to comment! I wouldn't mind it if there wasn't a c-index. In another post, Fubar brought up some really valid points about why we are here on this site. Thanks Caedes for a good job....and that's not a lengthy or extensive comment to you, but heartfelt.

As the c-index discussions so often revealed, it is the intention of the members of caedes.net that recognition not be the main motivation for participation. Rather the main reason should be self-improvement through sharing of ideas. Thus, seeing my name on the top ten list should not be my motivation for commenting. Perhaps those of us who have little time to particiopate might consider commenting on fewer images, but leaving more detailed comments on those upon which we do comment. <*raises eyebrow reprovingly like Mr,. Spock*>

I am more than happy to give up my spot. I'm doing just as I've always done on here and am not a competitive person in the least. I have more time than many due to temporary disability and I get away with being here by having my computer in the middle of my busy home. I don't log off to go do what I have to do and I check in often. It was my impression that this idea wasn't about the "number" of comments but rather about the helpful aspects of them so there is no "race" there. I try to look at all styles of art yet there are many times I do wish others with far more knowlege than I have would help out more with their comments. Still, these are images I feel deserve support whether I can give an accurate critique or not. I'm not one to operate on the give to get theory. If you receive a "nice job" comment from me, it is my hope that you will realize that I at least took notice and meant what I said. It is not my wish nor my place to nit-pick an image. I will only make a suggestion if I know I can help you do it or do it for you. And, even then, it's very scary for me to do so until I've learned who is receptive and who isn't. Usually the hard way. ;( Many will improve simply by being here long enough and realizing differences in the quality and diversity in the other works they see. If you do not appreciate the efforts and comments offered by me, it is my wish that you will simply and kindly leave me a pm. The number of uploads is tremendous. I try to go in order. Even still, I miss alot. To many of you, please don't let this be about competition. Think about what you would like to receive on your own works. Give that when you can and expect nothing in return. You may be pleasantly surprised. You will certainly create better and be happier. Maybe with enough of us participating when we able, far fewer images will suffer from neglect that isn't warranted.

I vote at work sometimes when I am bored. I don't have the time to leave long comments, but I try to put something specific that I liked in each one. Also, what if you can't always think of ways people can improve things, especially if the image looks really nice as it is?

If you can't think of how to improve an image, then maybe you might point out what specifically you like about it? Like maybe - "I like the way the colors blend from one side to the other drawing my attention along the gradient until my eye alights on the subject lurking there waiting like a gift to be revealed." or something, you know? We can't all know more than the artist him(her)self. How does that sound?

I usually do point out what I like about it.

I consider myself very fortunate to have literally stumbled onto this site.

The past few weeks here have exposed me to some wonderful and absolutely, in some instances, incredible talent. I have viewed images of, for lack of a better word, novices and then those of professional integrity. And in each instance, I came away enriched.

I have been bold enough to offer up suggestions in the hopes that they would initiate some dialogue, either internally for the artist, or between myself and him or her. And again, have been rewarded richly. I came to see and to learn. That is why I write the comments that I do.

I try to temper my words, so that they are constructive in nature. There is always an opportunity to apologize in my world and have clarification meted out, if it demands it.

To those of you that have seen my postings of my comments on their work, I have come to like a, hmm, phrasing, I have coined that I think is of particular significance with respect to this dialogue. And it is this ...

An artist ... an audience ... mutal respect ... it's a good good thing.

I won't mention the name of one of the members, as I don't want to outright embarrass them, but, I am sure some of you may know that fact ... however, these comments also speak volumes in their brevity. For example;

"Wow, I'm adding this to my favorites....67/10!!!"

"Sweet image! I like it a lot!! Keep up the good work!! 62/10!!!!"

I have seen the effects and the power of what a few words can do. And whether they are a result of my 'loquaciousness' or the simplicity of my colleague ... one thing is rather apparent. They are a good good thing.

So, I think however this is finally decided, one very important fact should be distilled from all of this ... write. Say something. And for the artists that have posted their works, I would take some pleasure out of the numbers too. Downloads and viewings say something as well.

It is just an added bonus to be awarded something for taking, hmm, maybe that little bit more time in constructing your thoughts and putting them down. Me, I would much rather have been the one creating the art that I and others have enjoyed. Your reward is having a forum like this to share it on.

Well, these forums really are a good thing! I've already learned a lot about leaving comments just by reading all of the above.

This thread needs to stay near the top so people can see your list, Caedes. I have a suggestion that I think might be easy to implement and might yield a good return for you Caedes. How about you put that list where people can find it (like alink on the side) and have the top ten commentors names be linked to their galleries.

I keep seeing names on the list and wondering, "Who is this?" A hot-link would let me go straight to their galleries and see who they are. The exposure might encourage people to comment more than a 1-week cadre membership.

There is a link under Other Stuff to see the list.

Yippee! I made top ten!!! =D haha. I think this is a wonderful idea...I hope it helps everyone start commenting more!
-Laurel

Coooool Im in the list too.

wow, I didn't know I was in the list....mmmmm....thats COOL!!!!

btw how about this " We are thinking about offering free Cadre membership to the top 10 commenting "...quote -Caedes-

Im # 2
So will i get it??...or which one week is this list...is it the same until now...?

Well, I think thats a thoughtful idea. :) It would be nice to see all of our nice commenters on the list every week. It's also a great way to motivate people to comment on pictures.

Why is this hiding on page three?