Doesn't matter if I post or not, I never get more then 2 pages in my album.
every time caedes skips 3 images.
I know you can't efford to much webspace.....but some people have 5 pages.
whats going on....yesterdays good images are worth nothing anymore today.
This actually not help me much to stay and believe things get better over here.
In m.h.o. with these new voting booth sytem a lot of the fun dissapeared.
Lots of serious artist here complains...so am I.
If this is the new kind of caedes I am out.
I liked it a lot around here...I liked the comment from others...but step by step fun dissapears.
Like for instant... voting on Fractals in the voting booth...I have to...but don't understand anything of the proces of making fractals...So how on earth can I say if something is good or not.
Let people who know vote on them...and I will whenever I really get attracted to one.
In general I don't like to do things which I don't choose myself...so Why should I do so here.
Why should anyone who gets here for fun in his/her sparetime do anything he/she doesn't ask for?
How long...till any serious artist here clears his/her album?
In m.h.o. its slowly time to change to an other sytem, maybe the old one, maybe a different one.
I suggest caedes ask all its members how they think about todays sytem.
Let the artist vote which system they prefer.

Not sure I understand everything you have said here, but I will try to help by pointing out a few things you might not be aware of:
1. The number of images in the perms is related purely to the quality of the images, not the server space. There would be little point in having a perm gallery where noone could find anything because it was filled with tens of thousands of images; as it is there are a huge amount in some of them already. Therefore we are very choosy with what makes it to the perms. If I understand correctly you are sying that every 3rd or 4th image you post makes it to the perms? That is a very high ratio and you should feel good about that. Getting an image into the perms should be an honour, rather than something you expect.
2. Regarding the size of your gallery; I see you have been on caedes for about 4 months. I can't speak for everyone but I know that some of the artists with 5 pages or more in their gallery have been here over 3 years. They have worked for a long time to create enough quality images to fill out their gallery. It's unrealistic to expect that you would acheive the same thing in 4 months.

As far as the voting system goes, I am reluctant to get involved in yet another debate, so let me just reiterate the reasons WHY the new system was introduced:
1. People were complaining about vote rigging,vote attacking and favortism. The random system attempts to minimise this by not allowing members to choose who they vote for, thus stopping people from voting low for people they dislike and voting high for people they were friends with. Also this prevents people from exploiting the system by voting for themselves, which was happening under the old system. No system is perfect, obviously, but I think these things seem to have been lessened significantly if not stopped altogether.
2. The system is also designed so that everyone gets an equal number of votes, rather than people just voting just for their friends, or just for images they "liked". Personally I think that voting for 10 or 20 images a day to contribute to the community and make it a better place for everyine, help new artists by ranking their work, help people see if a new style is popular etc. isn't too much to ask... after all isn't that what being part of a community is about?
Lastly, you just have to remember that you can't please everyone. It's unrealistic to think that reintroducing the old system, or coming up with a new one is going to make everyone happy all of a sudden. That isn't going to happen. Caedes has made a genuine effort to develop a system that will be fair to everyone annd has put alot of time and effort into that. If he could come up with a way to please everyone, he'd probably be running for president rather than running this website. Sad fact is it's an impossible ask.

"Like for instant... voting on Fractals in the voting booth...I have to...but don't understand anything of the proces of making fractals...So how on earth can I say if something is good or not."

If it looks like something the person put a lot of effort into, if I like it, if it's highly detailed as opposed to just being a few blobs or lines, etc., I give higher ratings. If the colors look nice together, I give one point extra. And so on.

Most of the fractals I have given 9's and 10's to looked like the person had done a lot of work on. They added a jewel and/or a frame, or some sort of finishing touch in another paint program.

Most fractal programs don't have those sorts of extras, so you have to do the extra work in another program like Paint Shop or Photoshop.

Does this help?

I'm a bit confused because you say that some people have 5 pages of images, while you yourself have 6 pages.

You question why we should ask serious artists to do extra work in order to post images (like the voting). I think that you misunderstand the way this works. It is a contract of sorts: in exchange for the online storage space, use of my server and software, and exposure of your artwork to the community I only ask that you vote on a few images in order to improve the site. If you think that is too much to ask then you are certainly free to not accept the terms of the deal.

Something occurred to me as I wondered why over a third of the images on the site have a c-index once again and yet less than 10% of mine do. Caedes informed me that the software was choosing the newest images first to get votes and working its way back in time. I discovered for myself that the crawl has reached back to April of this year (and counting). Why don't any of my images have votes? Because I have only submitted 3 images since February that actually made it into the permanent galleries.

I'm not sure of the exact count but I estimate that I've uploaded right around 25 images since February, 5 of which are very recent and are still in the New Images Gallery. Ignoring those 5, I have uploaded 20 images since February that have already been given a thumbs up or down on getting into the permanent galleries. Of those 20, only 3 have been added to the permanent galleries and the rest have been banished forever by the Caedes gods and resigned to a life of modesty on my own website.

Submitted in the 10 months preceeding last February (all the way back to April, '03 when I joined Caedes) are 83 of my images still living in the permanent galleries (granted I had a lot more free time and was doing a LOT more photography back then). I also had many many others that were in the permanent galleries but fell victim to spring cleaning.

What's the point of all this math? A year and a half ago my permanent gallery admission rate was definitely over 50%. Now it is around 15%. Is it because I have just become that bad of a photographer through practice and advice? I doubt it. It's just gotten to be that much harder (and that much more of an honor) to get an image into the permanent galleries.

I'm willing to bet that my 83 "legacy" images in the permanent galleries are not safe come spring cleaning this year either. Like Sam pointed out, there are a ton of images in the permanent galleries now and many more uploaded daily. The longer the permanent galleries live, the fewer images will make it in, and the more old ones will be tossed out as the level of quality goes up and up. I've got images getting denied now that are unarguably better than some that are still lingering in the permanent galleries from the days of old.

The purpose of this site is two-fold as I see it. One goal is to provide a large library of high quality desktop images for people to download and enjoy. The other is to create a community that allows people to grow as artists and learn from those who have already walked the paths of learning that they're on. I find it challenging to vote on fractals and such just like the next photographer, but I think it's a small price to pay in order to shape the wonderful community of growth here. Then sometimes when I'm bored the voting process can be downright fun.

All anyone is doing around here is their best, that goes for uploading images, commenting, and voting as well, not to mention building the site software and moderating all the traffic. Everyone is simply doing their best. Not a soul is in it for money, and everyone is SO generous. I think that makes this just about the best community anywhere.

Amen.

(to Torque and Samatar) =)

BTW I like your signature DrPepper. =)

Let me be a bit clearer...because I see you don't really get what i mean.
a few months ago I had 3 pages with images in my album...now it doesn't matter what I post...whenever the 2 pages are full ...3 images get deleted to make more space.
So I will never be able to get over the 2 pages.
If you say thats because of the quality of those image??? Well then I say its weird that you guys allways deside over my image quality when the 2 pages are full.
Then I rather like you to be honest and say you can have 2 pages ..thats all.
I don't mind..I am happy with 2 pages, but I aint happy with the way images get skipped.
And what about these voting...I don't mind to vote on 10 images each day.
If you can see how long I am a member and how many comments I made, you can see that I am really willing to make that efford.
But don't you think voting on images which don't mean anything to you , or like for me those fractals are hard to judge because I don't know anything about them...it makes me vote not with my heart but just because I have too.
And I know for myself that I am honest in voting so with those fractals....i watch them everytime trying to understand how much efford it took. to give the artist what he/she deserves...but never have a clue if I do that right...that's frustrating and brings nothing to no one.
And what I see and hear from others around here ....just hear around...you can see we all have to deal with those votes.
On the other hand...at the same time....because people forced to vote...they don't have the time or don't take the time to vote on what they like.
I see...that images for instant are seen 100 times downloaded 65 times and voted for 4 times.
And then you can still ask from where those 4 votes come....is that from voting booth?
is that from people who like your work?
At least I guess it would help if people that download your work at least have to vote on it.
On my album as it is now ( count all images which are skipped out ) images got download 10375 times.
So I guess visitors think my work has some quality....But I can't find it back in voting and since voting booth it is only getting worse.
So please give me one good reason for this voting booth....Do you really think voters give an honest vote on peoples work when they don't like it.
I know I can judge my own work....and when i post an image which is really good and in the voting it gets 50 in the c index????
well whats the point of voting....I don't think because of that voting booth I get more honest votes, or more comments.
And no I don't think another system will be perfect, or the old system was perfect.
Only thing I can and will say...is that the old system was much more fun.
Off course once in a while there are some people who want to mess the system or some artist.
But he...that happens ..now as well.
So please ask around how many members who were here before the chance are happy with this new system.
The last what I can say on it is....I am a serious member who makes a lot of efford to post and to comment and do that to have some fun, which I had around here.
But that fun is allmost gone...for me and for a lot of others.
I don't really want to leave Caedes because I like the good parts of it, but if it stays like this I will consider that.
thanks for listening.

Are you saying that images that are in the permenant gallery of your are being deleted? Because as far as I am aware that shouldn't be happening.

No one here has the time or interest in singling out your gallery to delete images for no reason. We only delete images once they have been on the site longer than a month and have not been promoted to the permanent galleries. If you regularly upload images, then it is inevitable that they would be deleted regularly as well.

You say you got a 50 c-index on an image. Personally I'd be happy with that since many of my images are in the teens. When I see that my images have been getting low scores I think "hmm, some people must not have liked it as much as I do." Try either that or putting a big piece of black tape on your monitor where the c-index is printed.

I guess when you don't want to hear what I suggest/say then, there is no reason saying it.
We can trow over arguments one after the other.
I can just repeat what my expirience is lately and what complains I hear from others.
The only thing I hope is that Caedes will be fun again, which it isn't lately for many here.
I believe in Caedes...its a wonderful project with great possiblities for each of us.
C index isn't that important, till you get the idea your images aint treated with respect.
And wasn't that the reason why the system changed.
I just believe this system as it is now, isn't making people happy.
So I just hope that you guys will listen to those critics and will think over how this can become better.
Like for instant let people vote on what they download.
And let me see how people vote...It maybe isn't nice to see that people vote 1 or 2 but at least it gives me something to think about.
Because now I see images of mine downloaded 60 times and voted 5 times and have a C index below 50.
That C index isn't important but after all the efford the artist take to upload nice images it would be nice if we get some reponse like voting in return.
Comment is of course the best.
Its not that I want to give just critisism on Caedes...I like Caedes and I know a lot of us do....And we all want a system which is fun.
And for me personaly I am willing to put a lot of efford in it....doesn't matter how.
The only thing I ask is think about it...and maybe listen to suggestions of members.

p.s. And one more thing those suggestions like putting a piece of black tape on your monitor....well I don't think that's an adult way of dealing with comment.
So either you give normal comments or else leave it please.
I try to give comment on these matters in a normal way...and expect you do the same.

I've never had any images make it to the permanent gallery. I would personally feel honored if one of them did. I can always put them on my own website, but it's not the same.

This kind of thread seams to appear every time there is an image cull of any shape or form and normally ends up being hijacked into yet another debate on the voting system.

This usually entails a set formula of people bemoaning the score on their images and fixating on it whilst in contradiction at the same time saying they believe it to be ultimately unimportant. The reason the system was changed originally was to try and halt this fixation but instead it just seams to keep coming up for air on a regular basis. Personally, I found it much better when the ability for members to view the c-index score was removed completely. This however, prompted more outrage until of course it was returned which pre-empted a full three sixty on peoples opinions that then wanted it removed or replaced again.

The image culls occur to regulate the size of the new images gallery in order to keep it relatively fresh and current. I don’t think that having 30+ images in your gallery after a few short months is exactly an indication of some sort of organised conspiracy to single out and delete your images. Ultimately, if you want to accelerate the pace of growth of your gallery and avoid the voting system, joining the Caedes Cadre will take care of both of them in one fell stroke.

I think that when you say "listen to the comments about the system" you really mean "change the system to the way I want it." Let me make this clear: I do listen to comments, but I am not going to change something unless I think it is the best decision for the site.

I have seen, and can strongly agree, Caedes listens to comments.

Thanks.

Rob

Likewise. At least two of my (4,000) suggestions were implemented, so don't give up. On the other hand you have stated your point. I motion that we close this thread.