Get rid of the wallpaper borders. They ruin the art. What famous painting do you know of that has a border?

Just downloaded "fire play". Great art. A Possible "10". With the border a "5".

What famous painting do you know that doesn't hang on a wall?

yea i was going to say that... the frame is the same thing as a border. also alot of water colour painting have mats around the painting then the frame

Also, what art do you know that is fixed to a certian aspect ratio. That is what the borders do. Open it up for any aspect ratio while still making it easy for people to use as desktops.

and this is a wallpaper site , i like borders so i can put my icons there.
in fact , i made it so there was room.

I like borders too, if it adds something to the image, like this .

I use borders and framing to enhance my art.. I have spent many hours in art gallerys, and almost all great paintings have frames and mats.. I use them for many reasons.. Sometimes just a stepback self-frame so that the tool bar doesn't cover the image.. Mostly I make my art for myself.. I love the frames and borders.. I fully intend to continue to do so.

I don't see anything wrong with borders. In fact they can even enhance or improve an image. It's all a matter of personal preference. Telling someone not to use borders is like telling someone not to use Tierazon, only Apophysis, it makes no sense. You can't dictate how someone creates wallpapers.

"ditto" thanks for saying it so well for me Larry

Rating as 5 a good work of art which you would ordinarily give a 10 to without the border is irresponsible, and an abuse of the rating system. Unless the border is in extremely bad taste or obscene in some way it cannot possible merit halving the rating an image deserves. It might cause a reasonable person to lower the c-index by two points, but five? Your action and those like it are why caedes had to rewrite the rating system to compensate for "punishment voting". You and those like you have caused a tremendous amount of pain here on Caedes.

Well said Reg.. a difference of 5 is a massive difference to 10, how can you rate an image like that because it has a border? That is saying you dont like spaghetti bolognase because of the spaghetti.. That is just been picky and as Regmar said "irresponsible".. to me it goes off the image itself not the border... the border comes down to personal preference.. If you go into an art gallery most images such as photos and graphic art have some sort of framing whether it is a frame or a mat, if you dont like the border but like the image, I'm sure if you contact the artist they would be able to email the image without it.. but to give it half of what the image is worth is a very low act.. I hope Caedes keeps a watch on your voting now...

That's a great example that Pierre used, that image is enhanced in every way by the border, & I enjoy that image often on my own desktop. If you don't like an image with a border, by all means, don't download it. But don't sabotage the efforts of people who go to the trouble of putting one on their image, talented people such as kodo34 or Morwyn, by voting low on an image that has a border just because you feel that it's unnecessary.

if only i could get rid of those stupid boarders all around my monitor! my computer could fill my entire world. i just wonder why people thing the ugly physical boarders on a monitor are any prettier than a few extra pixels that are well used. Personally i always use a desktop that uses less than half the size of my monitor. you can better enjoy the picture because it has boundaries, and (personally) i find it a bit classier

Well, you all bring great reasons for enjoying borders. I feel I must apologize if my comment has offended or irritated anyone.

I, myself, enjoy a wallpaper that fills my screen without a border.

Personally, I find boarders rather annoying. They tend to eat food out of your refridgerator without permission and can hog the bathroom... but as long as they pay some rent and contribute toward the bills, I tolerate them.

One day, Sam - Bam! Zoom! To the moon :-)

No seriously folks, About the borders, Please try to realize that some very good images cannot be used as wallpaper by themselves - they are taller than they are wide, so they don't fit a monitor screen. Putting them on a border or matt is the only way to use these images. See the "Antelope Canyon" series by fotobob for instance. I would have hated to miss those because they were the wrong aspect ratio.

I agree with the topic creator. I mean, the monitor is enough of a frame. The more of the image, the better. If the aspect ratio is not equal to that of a monitor, then that is fine, but otherwise, it looks strange and really takes you out of the picture. There is only so much desktop space, why add a border? Also, many borders are way over the top and are pretty cheesy. Not something I would want on my desktop. Its kind of like: "Well, first you had a picture on your desktop, but now with the frame, you have a picture of a picture."

Rating it a 5 is not irresponsible if it reflects how he thinks of the image. Why? Because the border is part of the image. If you want people to judge your images for only the image, don't add a border! Once you add a border, it is now part of the image, and should be voted on accordingly.

That's just your opinion.. I beg to disagree.. Lowering your vote because of a frame or border, is irresponsable and unfair to the artist.. If you cannot judge fairly, you should not vote.. The frames I use are part of the image I create.. If you don't like it, then don't download it, but to down vote the quality of my art, because you don't like one aspect of it, is just plain wrong.. This voting thing, is one of the reasons I am not sure, I am going to stay with this site.. I am thouroghly disgusted with this type of irresponsable behavior. I just don't see the point to the voting at all.. I would like to see it done away with, altogether.. I think many other artists would too.. I don't feel the need to be judged by people who feel this way.. I want you to know I am not teasing.. I am very serious and very angry..

Morwyn I think that Morpheus and Dmerkel are part of the "punishment voting" crowd. These are people who manipulate their vote to deliver a certain effect to the image about which they're voting, rather than simply voting on the merit of the image. Rather than voting a 6 on an image they think deserves a 6 they vote a 1, so when their vote is averaged in the image comes out with a 6. This is irresponsible, and if everyone did this then no one would vote anything but a 0 or a 10 on any image. It is an attempt to make their vote count more than anyone else's vote. This is why I think it's irresponsible.

A 5 indicates that an image is an average image - like that any unskilled person would shoot with their pocket camera. If an image deserves a 10 without the borders, then it is far better than average. The addition of a border cannot possibly make the image an average image unless it's a really bad border.

Exactly my point.. if people are going to missuse the voting after all the hard work that has been put into it, then it should be done away with completely.. This is revenge voting in it's purest form.. If something cannot be done to correct this, I will be leaving when my subscription is up.. Other sites have either no voting at all, or a different type of rating system.. It's people like them that makes me so sad all the time.. I guess they just like hurting others.

EDIT: I create art.. I create it in a desktop size for posting on this site only.. I do not have these size restrictions on the other sites, where I post. I want my art treated with respect.. I do not create anything that in any way is offensive or repulsive.. There is no excuse for the low scores my images, and those of the other wonderful artists on this site are getting.

Lets not get into this again , they have their opinion and we have ours . In the end it is just a number and for me if just one person likes what i made it is enough (or even none because i like what i do ) .

Sorry Kristof.. I have reached the limit of my paitence with this.. Enough.. If these numbers are so meaningless, why bother to have them? I"ll stay through my subscription.. I will not stay, after is is done unless, some major changes are made... Whether my gallery stays or not is still in question.. I am too old for this kind of disrespect.. Disrespect is what it is.. I put too much time and effort into my work to have it treated like it was trash.. If this upsets some people then that is their problem.. I am tired of walking on eggs to protect egos..

Well said Ann! I don't understand it either. It is punishment voting when someone votes an image half what it deserves because of a border. It's discrimination, that's exactly what it all boils down to. If people can't be mature enought to vote fairly based on the total quality of an image, and not their personal dislikes of a certain type of image then they're the ones that should be leaving! I've seen too many good people leave lately because of this stuff! It's really depressing.

Ann: Don't forget that the c-index is just an instantaneous value. Please, take a look at the permanent photo galeries by date: you'll find a lot of photos with borders in the last promoted pictures. dmerkel's ideas aren't shared by the mods... And I'm sure they aren't shared by the majority of caedes members.
Like I said above, we try to judge the artistic qualities of an entire image. Some images are really better with than without borders.

I am sorry to hear that you are "disgusted" and "angered" by people having different opinions than yours. By the way, regmar, I am not part of this "punishment voting" crowd (if one even exists, for that matter). I always vote on an image based on the image, with no ulterior motives. If I vote something a 7 instead of an 8 because it has a border, it is because I thought the border detracted from the image. I cannot just ignore everything I dislike about an image, otherwise every image would get a 10. What is the point of that?

Bottom line: if a border hurts an image, it does not deserve the same score it would have gotten without a border. That is not irresponsible voting.

I believe we were talking about givng an image a 5 instead the 10 it would have gotten otherwise as dmerkel said himself he was doing. That IS punishment voting, pure and simple!

Well, if he honestly thought that the border detracted from the image that much, then he is justified in voting that much lower. It is his opinion.

Well sir..You don't deserve to be able to vote on my images.. You are the reason I will no longer be uploading, once my subscription has run out.. Any site that allows this kind of behavior, does not deserve to have my images., Whether you believe it or not, it is revenge voiting, if you drop your vote 1 point because it has a border.. You sir, are just what you are accused of being.. A punishment voter.

Which is why I will be leaving. I don't like you one little bit. I didn't read your link.. Don't need to.. I know your kind.. If the boss wants to put this in the hall of shame ,then I will be proud. I am only tellin g the truth.. I am too old, and too smart to put up with children. You young, man are a child..

Okay then...

So, it seems to me that it is being said that the border should not be rated at all, but only the content of the picture? This includes if someone goes to the effort of making a border that is more then just a black bars. I get this conclusion because it seems that it is being said that if a picture is really good, but has a disgusting border on it that in the voters oppinion ruins the image, it shouldn't be voted on as a ruined image. If this is the case then it also seems like it should mean that if a border makes an average image more then average then it should still stay average because the border shouldn't count? This doesn't seem to make any sence to me. If a border brings the image down, it should bring the vote down. It is part of the image. With this said, i don't think an image that is a different aspect ratio should be voted lower because it has a simple border on it that only allows it to be uploaded.

If people don't like borders, that is just personal taste. This thread started on a wrong note and has devolved into another voting and c-index squabble. It is being moved to the graveyard.