Taken from the "Suggestions Poll":

'Voting booth score based on several factors, instead of just one.'

'More realistic C-index.'


Comments/postings (or parts), taken from the "Suggestions Poll" discussion thread:

"I'd ask for split voting categories (aesthetic, technical, artistic) as opposed to one arbitrary number."

"I'd second the suggestion that voting be categorized with possibly some of the following categories: Aesthetics, technical quality, creativity, comment quantity, Wow factor, etc. The over all score would be the average from the above."

"I'd suggest a total of the category values, instead of their average."
_________________________________________________________________

Possible categories for consideration:

Exposure - Images should be properly exposed. All pertinent detail should be clearly visible. The image should be free of blown highlights and dark spots. Blown highlights and dark spots should not be confused with areas of white and black that are essential to an image; high key, noir, and harsh lighting contrast are acceptable, but must be executed effectively.

Color - Images should use color effectively. Images will be judged on white balance, judicious use of color, freedom from distracting color elements, etc. In the case of Black and White images, this category will be scored based on the technical expertise of the black and white conversion and the aesthetic of the tonal variations within the image.

Contrast - Images should make effective use of contrast. This includes contrast in both visual and thematic elements.

Focus and Bokeh - Images should be in focus. The focal point should be placed on the subject. Effective use of depth of field and bokeh, or artistic quality of the out of focus areas of the image will also apply to this category.

Framing and Crop - Images should be well cropped. The rule of thirds, the golden spiral, aspect ratio, and both positive and negative space will be considered. You are not limited to the 2x3 or 3x4 ratio captured by your camera.

Composition - Images should demonstrate good composition, for the purposes of scoring, this category refers to the organization of the elements within the photo. Symmetry, asymmetry, placement of images, and the effective use of foreground and background elements will be considered.

Kenesthesis - Images should exhibit an effective use of movement, either through the emulation of movement within the still image, or by the tension exhibited by stillness.

Artistry - Images will be judged on overall artistic merit.

Originality - You are encouraged to think outside the box.. or rather, ignore the box. In fact, there is no box. This aspect/factor reflects originality and innovative thinking.

Desktop/Wallpaper Suitability.


Scoring for each individual category from 1 - 10. Either a straight sum, or that of an average. Or, some other permutation.

Depending on the agreed upon/arrived at calculation/permutation of the 'final score'/tally ... if that number falls below a predetermined number, 'you', the voter are then required to provide a short comment.

Don't comment in that instance?

Score doesn't count/not assigned ... and is thrown out.

Start over, if 'you' wish to participate in the Voting Booth and in turn, receive a scoring on your own uploaded images.


/\ Too much stuff?

Most likely.. so.

So..
_________________________________________________________________

Courtesy of Rob; aka third_eye, and I quote;

"If I might offer a bit of paring-down advice for your categories, and generalize them a bit for more of a one-size-fits-all application,

I'd recommend no more than three or four vote categories. The poll item you quoted was mine, after all. ;-)

Technical: was the media (photography, CG, etc) used and applied to a certain level of quality? This encompasses a broad spectrum of aspects. Contrast, color, editing, render, etc can all be considered here.

Artistic: ok, the sky is blue, the flower is in focus, the render doesn't look like a hack job pasted together with elmer's glue. But does it 'do' anything for the viewer? Was a shred of creativity applied, or was this made without a soul? Does it inspire thought, or emotion?

Aesthetic: is it 'pretty'? Would you hang it's printed equivalent over the mantle? Or would it be hidden away in the guest bathroom?

Howzat?

_________________________________________________________________


Any other ideas, if 'you' wish to see a change on the fronts of scoring/voting?

I did vote for that originally, but it got buried under the mountain of suggestions, and when I voted for something else it disappeared completely :-(

Any breakdown like that would be helpful, as the current C-Index is little more than a popularity poll.
I just want to point out that artist would need to see the full breakdown for it to be any use - not just get the final average. The current neat little graph would need a lot of expanding ...

Suggestion Poll

/\ Still up and running.

Accessed usually through the link(s) at the top of the "Feature Bloat / Bug Squash" forum section(s).

Ummm Les... Re: your first comment about breaking it up.. I've been saying that over and over and over again for a verrrrrrrry long time and I think only 2 people actually agreed with me everyone else just pushed it to the side.. lol

I'm still the only voter ...

Ehh ... maybe some malaise has set in, due to any number of contributing factors.

Or..

People are busy doing other things. No time, in short and simply put.


Perhaps..

A front page news article reminder might light the discussion fire once more?

I count 3 people on this thread.

I read it, but I'm sick and barely functional. So pthffft. And I voted for something which is my priority.

I still do not see the point of getting into so much detail. Firstly it assumes that the voter knows and can judge on many different criteria, or could be bothered. Secondly, analysis at this level of some of the great images would not get the result great image.

People should be allowed to vote on an image in whatever way suits them, but should perhaps be offered some indication as to what is expected. On one post some time ago someone compared images of pets and people showing the difference between a good photograph and a snapshot. To my mind, that is more use than trying to set a mass of rules.

Fractals and CGI should only be judged on the final image. Some are easy to do, look stunning and take a few seconds, some take days and look awful. Just go with what you feel.

There will always be people who are super critical and mark down images, and those who think that anything with a flower in it is awesome and give it a 10. That is human nature, and no amount of rules, instructions or hinting will make it change much.

What about..

If 'we' look at the Voting Booth, as an aid ... some additional information to provide to the artists?

Rather than as it now sits, with only that of a singular number being provided as 'feedback'?


Agreed, in that some (most?) of the above is too too much, and perhaps ... beyond some members understanding or useful comprehension (maybe?).

Pare it down?

Most certainly.


That is why I quoted Rob's; aka third_eye post from the other discussion thread;

"I'd recommend no more than three or four vote categories."

Could be.. the basic tenets of 'art'. Such as:

i) Design/Composition.
ii) Artistry/Aesthetic.
iii) Originality.

Not all will subscribe to this .. if any suggestions/changes were to be implemented ... once in the Voting Booth.

And look upon it as an opportunity to potentially help out their fellow members.. however, I think that some will.

Maybe.. most?


Annnnd..

It could be viewed as a learning tool as well. Or a review of sorts as to what the basic constituents are that make up a good good image. (Guaranteeing, I would think ... if this was a component of the Voting Booth ... greater reach and exposure than that of a discussion thread here on the forums.)


And lastly, at it's roots ... this discussion is aimed at more consideration being given in assigning a score in the Voting Booth. Simply put and in short.

My initial thought is that perhaps there could be a list of qualities (focus, color, composition, etc) following the numerical vote, and we could simply + or - the qualities that contributed to our vote. No one would have to do this (or even respond to all of the qualities), but it could be a quick way to indicate what the problem or strength was with a particular image.

I like the idea of additional options to check off as optional to do, not mandatory to the main vote, and as simple pluses or minuses, leaving the wider range only for the "Overall" vote.

Which would allow you to have a technical category with perhaps 4 or 5 of the top points to click on, and optional to click or not on each one "focus" "color" "lighting" "composition" "contrast"

For the artistic category you could have "storytelling" "attractive" "originality"

I think this is a good way of keeping it simple and it would also allow someone who just wanted to make the point that the focus was off the option to only click on the focus box without having to click through all the rest.

I just saw this image on the front page and I would like to know how it would get approved if it had to be marked against the criteria listed above, long or short form. Perhaps the proposers of such solutions would mark it. (The member appears to be no longer active.) Of course it may not even get through the Art Council either at present. It seems to follow the Ansel Adams rule that 'there are no rules for good images, just good images'.

The image is, of course, in the main galleries.

How about something easier. Just a small box to leave a constructive anonymous comment in while voting. A box which is labeled with " Please encourage this artist and leave a constructive comment that will help them improve or understand the reason for the vote you gave." Make it purely optional but available as each image is voted on. This way voting can continue in its simple current form and those who care can make a real difference with clear info about their vote. Provide a complain button in the artists view of these anonymous critiques to prevent hateful or abusive misuse.

When I am in the process of voting and a submission draws my attention, because it's one that could be vastly improved by a simple change, a submission that appears as though they tried their best but missed something obvious, after I vote I open their submission page and leave a constructive comment. I don't do this all the time but at least once each time I vote, sometimes more. I assume that some of you do this as well. I'm thinking the suggestion of a small box for a constructive comment would be redundant because comments are already being left (and I'm not counting the four- and five-word comments... those don't do much in the way of constructive critique). Some of the suggestions on this thread are approaching a somewhat simple but still constructive addition to the voting, a method that can explain the reasoning behind the vote without going overboard. A plus or minus for certain elements that constitute a good image, or perhaps a numerical value system that can show the member who submitted the image, how they fared in terms of things like:

-suitability as a desktop
-interest in the subject matter
-focus
-composition
-etc.

A numerical value placed on elements of this type would allow the submitting party to see specific areas where they are doing well (the upper range, 7 to 10) and those that need some work (1 to 4 [I'm not even going to touch on the zero!]). There wouldn't be a need for a long, drawn-out comment (unless one wished to leave that sort of comment on the post itself)... just a number for the submitting member to consider. I think a system like this would be a compromise between those of you who prefer something very simple and those of you who promote a more involved response in the voting process.

-Nik

Alright, optional seems to be the best considered suggestion, thus far.

Although, I don't think that if it was a necessary/compulsary facet of the Voting Booth ... it would be too time-consuming and again, the issue of 'considered voting' would be satisfied more so and to a degree.


'We' still need to define exactly the 'whats' or categories of consideration.


Chris'; aka coram9 linked example put forth in his post above seems to be aimed at the 'categories' being bantered about. (I believe/think.)

I would suggest that if the categories of consideration were generalized as per one of the posts above;

"Could be.. the basic tenets of 'art'. Such as:

i) Design/Composition.
ii) Artistry/Aesthetic.
iii) Originality."

Or.. that of;

"Technical: was the media (photography, CG, etc) used and applied to a certain level of quality? This encompasses a broad spectrum of aspects. Contrast, color, editing, render, etc can all be considered here.

Artistic: ok, the sky is blue, the flower is in focus, the render doesn't look like a hack job pasted together with elmer's glue. But does it 'do' anything for the viewer? Was a shred of creativity applied, or was this made without a soul? Does it inspire thought, or emotion?

Aesthetic: is it 'pretty'? Would you hang it's printed equivalent over the mantle? Or would it be hidden away in the guest bathroom?"

... that the image could be 'judged'/scored fairly ... with a positive outcome.


Last thought, let's try and not lose sight of our CGI brethren and sister members with this discussion.

I liked David's idea very much. Add the "voluntary" box to the VB, maybe as test for now, and see where it goes.

Just a little clarification...
As Nikoneer says - adding a comment box to voting would be redundant - however the point is that it is anonymous and as such avoids possible offense and revenge behaviors being carried out against the commenter. Having a complain button on the message delivered to the artist allows for moderation when / if needed. Perhaps a creds button would be good for positive feed back too.

I like Nikoneers suggested system as well. A good compromise.

"A plus or minus for certain elements that constitute a good image, or perhaps a numerical value system that can show the member who submitted the image, how they fared in terms of things like:

-suitability as a desktop
-interest in the subject matter
-focus
-composition
-etc."

"My initial thought is that perhaps there could be a list of qualities (focus, color, composition, etc) following the numerical vote, and we could simply + or - the qualities that contributed to our vote."


"I like Nikoneers (and Rebecca's; aka rforres) suggested system as well. A good compromise."

/\ Agreed.


'We' still need to define exactly the 'whats' or categories of consideration.

Last thought, let's try and not lose sight of our CGI brethren and sister members with this discussion.

Ahh, ok.. got it.

Some sustenance is in order to nourish the minds at work on the resolution of this issue/suggestion.


Here..

(*leaves behind this cookie for the thread participants to nosh on*)