Elephant Graveyard

Discussion Board -> Elephant Graveyard -> It Never Fails

It Never Fails

06/07/12 1:38 AM GMT
When a thread is started and (someone) doesn't like that other people have something valid to say, he sends it to the graveyard. It's happened so many times, I lost track. This is why we need access to Geri.

I was saying that people should cooperate and talk about and work out problems instead of calling each other names and slinging mud, but that must have been too civil an idea for anyone to put into print.

I said that we didn't pose questions because we wanted to make Caedes worse as was suggested. Why would we do that?

When several people voice the same issue, isn't it an opportunity to examine the reasons and address the situation rather than send it to the graveyard? Isn't it better to grasp the opportunity to improve the site and make things better for all than to malign people and call them names?

I guess those at the top of the food chain here don't think so.
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06/07/12 1:52 AM GMT
Life is just a game, you fly it like a plane, there is no end..."Thunderclap Newman"
11∈ [?]
“There is only you and your camera. The limitations in your photography are in yourself, for what we see is what we are.” - Ernst Haas
06/07/12 1:56 AM GMT
/\ Still.. disappointing to read ...
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06/07/12 3:57 AM GMT
wow disappointing is an understatement
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06/07/12 8:49 AM GMT
I see a familiar phenomenon repeating itself. The current discussion is again turned away from which it was originally intended: to obtain legitimate and clear answers to what has happened with the AC, and so on (see the by Cindy put forward questions at the begin of the ONLY 3 DAYS YOUNG, and already to the Elephant Graveyard 'promoted' thread).

Cindy, as I know other Caedes-members as well, and I want to know who decides now whether new photographs are promoted to the perms or not, because recently new photos were added to the perms while Caedes-members, as we got used to, was no longer offered the opportunity to vote for or against a nominated picture. It's clear anyhow that the voting systym as described HERE is taken out of order, without commumicating this to the Caedes-members. It seems that the assumption is justified that the allocation only happens now by a single Mod or some more Mod's. If this assumption proves to be true, to me it's clear that behind the scenes a 'struggle' (please notice the quotes) has taken place by one or more Mod's to regain lost power. Then I understand too why no response is given and this decision is shrouded in mystery'. I do not understand as well why a Mod can find time to participate extensively in the discussion, but apparently has not a single minute available to give clear answers to the questions.

I hope I'm wrong, but if not then my conclusion is simple: Caedes has a democratic voting system for the perms replaced by an authoritarian allocation system. This is food for thought. Openness on this site is therefore highly desirable.

15∈ [?]
Try to change what you can't accept, but accept what you can't change. Please CLICK HERE to see my journal! Feel free to save my images or to add them to your favorites.
06/07/12 2:02 PM GMT
So you believe that there is some grand conspiracy at work?

Well, I will leave you to your thoughts.

However, to answer one of your questions..

"We never stopped promoting new images."

"We go through the new images once every two to three weeks, depending on our personal schedules."

It makes no sense to just abandon the promoting of images with no Art Council functioning at the moment. Otherwise, the pages of the Main Galleries would remain at a standstill and stagnate.

And as quoted and reiterating, we never stopped promoting images.

Did so, even with the Art Council functioning.. as many images ... as noted by other members ... were being overlooked.
1∈ [?]
06/07/12 2:50 PM GMT
What else can one believe, Les? Given that Caedes doesn't respond to anyone (except perhaps you), given that the AC remains broken after months, given that no explanation was forthcoming, given that we asked him to announce John Warmbier's passing on the front page and never saw it happen, would lead one to think that he is not listening or is not available or you are not passing any info onto him.
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06/07/12 2:56 PM GMT
Please don't try to fool me, Les.
It would be wise to learn first to read in a correct way what I've really said, before you react like a person who is stung by a hornet.
The word 'consparicy' was never used by me. I clearly stated: "If this assumption proves to be true ....", because nobody in the higher-Caedes-hierarchy, with the exception of Mimi, did provide us with some clarity.
It remains remarkable that we also had to move heaven and earth to become an incomplete answer now. Incomplete because it's still unclear what's the real reason why the AC-system had to be 'killed'. For 'killing' the VB-system was a good reason because it was corrupted by voters who gave undeserved zeros and ones to good pictures as well.
Anyway, all in all we did not make a step forward.
5∈ [?]
Try to change what you can't accept, but accept what you can't change. Please CLICK HERE to see my journal! Feel free to save my images or to add them to your favorites.
06/07/12 3:07 PM GMT
After reading the above, here is what I believe happened to the AC. It isn't broken. It was stopped. Why? Read:

""We never stopped promoting new images."

"We go through the new images once every two to three weeks, depending on our personal schedules."

It makes no sense to just abandon the promoting of images with no Art Council functioning at the moment. Otherwise, the pages of the Main Galleries would remain at a standstill and stagnate.

And as quoted and reiterating, we never stopped promoting images.

Did so, even with the Art Council functioning.. as many images ... as noted by other members ... were being overlooked", Les.


They (attributed to 'other members') were not happy with our choices. Images that they liked were being overlooked. And, I believe, they never liked having us do the choosing in the first place as Caedes instituted the AC over some of their objections because he wanted the community involved.

So now, the images that are promoted are only the 'personal' choices of the moderators because as we all know, they are better at it, better photographers, artists and art connoisseurs than any of the rest of us who just 'make' art.

If I am wrong, prove it.
12∈ [?]
06/07/12 3:19 PM GMT
::cynlee - 20/12/10 11:42

"I am beginning to think that people don't really look at the images they vote on anyway, so what does the VB or the AC matter? I see images in the main galleries that are overly sharpened, poorly composed, blurry and over saturated as examples. Granted many of the images are of fine quality, but discrimination has been lacking in the choice of subjects and quality. The main galleries are becoming very bland."
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06/07/12 3:21 PM GMT
Wow, there's been a number of comments left since I started writing this (2 thumbs-typing)

Granted, Cyn, there have been questions asked with little response given, but, as has been noted in the past, this is Geri's site, the mods do their job for him, and we are just visitors. We don't know what lines of regular communication are open between Geri and the mods. Everyone is faced with strife in their lives, at one time or another, sometimes too often. I know, for example, that Mimi has dealt with the loss and illness of some beloved family members in the past year and that's surely why she isn't always available for us (sorry Mimi, but a point needs to be made and you're the best example I know). Would I take exception with her for that? Even if she wasn't a friend, hell no. Do we know if Geri is ill, caring for someone who is, or involved in some other difficult situation? No, we don't (or at least I don't). Or is he possibly waiting for us all to calm down and accept the fact that yes, there are some things we don't understand right now but we still have this great site to post our work and view the work of others for inspiration and sharing. Years ago I had an assignment to find and photograph a bridge in a small rural community in my state. After a fruitless search I made the mistake of stopping and asking two elderly gentlemen about the whereabouts of this bridge but, once they discovered I worked for the state, they decided I was there as a rep for the water department (the absolute opposite end of the spectrum of my work, truly) who they obviously had a real problem with. They yammered away at me, dealing alternating blows of complaints (it was like trying to talk to Pa & Pa Kettle, strung out), but none of my assurances that I did not work for the water department made a dent. Their constant stream of heated dialoge finally drove me back into my truck and further down the road where I found... the bridge! Okay, that aside, perhaps that is how Geri is seeing all this and is waiting for things to calm down? There seems to be so much emphasis on getting answers that we're overlooking the people. The questions have been asked and I'm sure Geri has seen them. My suggestion is to step back, take a breath, shoot some photos (or frac some 'tals), and give him time to come back. Otherwise this rock we're rolling up the hill will never reach the top.
21∈ [?]
If you've ever wanted to make a difference but found it hard to believe that one person could... check out the Kiva Team Caedes discussion thread and discover that anything is possible.
06/07/12 3:23 PM GMT
Thank you, Nik. Appreciate your time and efforts.
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06/07/12 4:33 PM GMT
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06/07/12 5:07 PM GMT
I am certain now, Les, that you must have a folder on your computer labeled "cynleequotes".

Doesn't make any difference what my opinion was of the images. Even if the choices in the galleries were bland, it was your responsibility to monitor gallery content. That doesn't mean take over making the choices completely.

People who are members of a community feel more a part of the community if they are given an opportunity to be involved in it and the AC provided that involvement. Caedes knew this when he asked that the mods not interfere.

Yes, Nik, we all have tragedies and serious illnesses befall us in life. No one questions that. I can attest to the same, but if that stress is affecting someone's ability to function as a moderator, why not give them some help?

LynEve suggested there be mini-mods to lighten the load, but that was totally overlooked as a promising suggestion.

It has been many months since John left us and we asked for an article on the main page. So, if Caedes is ill and indisposed for so long and can't respond, why aren't we just told that so that a light shines on the darkness?

The reason I feel the 'secretive' nature of the site is present is because a question posed is always a question disposed. There is a dance around it and a reluctance to offer any kind of response. Instead, we run away to dig up quotes that someone wrote in a thread at a previous time to discredit them? What a waste of time. Can't you just be genuine?
11∈ [?]
06/07/12 6:40 PM GMT
The site is what the site is. There is no Art Council, so lets live with it. There wasn't before and the site worked perfectly well, I am sure it would do again, if people stopped complaining on and on about things over which they have no control, nor should they.

It is Geri's site. He appoints the moderators to act on his behalf. If they failed to do so I am sure they would be removed from post. The fact that are not obviously means they have his confidence and so we, the visitors, need to abide by their, and hence Geri's, desires.

I am not saying the site is perfect, no site is, and I post on several. It is one of the better ones and the members should be grateful, especially those that do not pay for membership and support the site.

Personally, I post pictures. Hey, I just won a contest. I'm happy. I just wish all this negativity would go away and more artists came back.
35∈ [?]
"There are no rules for good photographs, there are only good photographs." Ansel Adams - Gallery - follow me on Twitter.
06/07/12 11:02 PM GMT
Why do we get an instant rehash of everything we already know like whose site this is, etc. etc.? Why are you calling us complainers when we only ask a question only to be bullied or put down? Seems to me the complainers are the ones who tell us we are complainers and should not discuss anything because everything here suits their own personal needs, but those of us looking to make things better or simply ask a question are beneath you and are an irritation to your own personal status quo? Tell me why is that?
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06/07/12 11:11 PM GMT
The best artists leave this site because of all the anguish and flack they get for wanting to see things improve. If we don't talk to one another about what could make the experience here better for ALL, then the site will be left with all that is mediocre and just a storage unit for photos.

We asked simple and simply answered questions and got smacked in the face for doing so. We got smacked in the face for offering a viable perspective and we get smacked in the face just because some of you get off on it.

This place seems to have turned into a free for all and without Geri it will fail.
4∈ [?]
06/07/12 11:21 PM GMT
Still stirring the cauldron of discontent Cindy? there's very little wrong with this website, why are you so focused on the negative?

If you want to change things simply click here, how hard is that?
6∈ [?]
Vote on your future here, and check your monitors calibration here.
06/07/12 11:28 PM GMT
I am not focused on the negative, Phil, and I don't believe that asking questions is stirring a cauldron of discontent, unless of course, it is your cauldron that you imagine to have gotten stirred.

That thread has been running for months on end, Phil. And besides, who is paying attention? There that's another question without an answer.
5∈ [?]
06/07/12 11:44 PM GMT
No I'm sorry I must contradict you there, your threads always end up criticising the voluntary, and hard working staff at Caedes. Poor Mimi was really upset by your last thread without any justification. I'm not surprised *Caedes never gives you the satisfaction of a reply.

There have been a lot a changes here already which you fail to acknowledge, and now there is a voting pole that I linked in my first comment, which surprise surprise you failed to comment on.

Why don't you stop moaning without justification, and help make this a happy community.
9∈ [?]
Vote on your future here, and check your monitors calibration here.
06/08/12 12:01 AM GMT
Now you are being ridiculous! I never said anything about mimi and you know it. If mimi was upset, it was because she was under stress and took the thread too personally because assuredly none of it was aimed in her direction and if you had eyes to see, you would have noticed that I commented on that further on in the thread. I even suggested she be helped out if it was a strain on her. Do you read the comments selectively? You really should read them more thoroughly.

You boys are really full of yourselves. It is no wonder so many have already departed.

Surprise, surprise, I did comment on the voting poll, but you chose to ignore it because you are so not seeing clearly that you wanted to be mad at me. It would be a happy community if people like you would stop attacking people like me.

You know why many others don't comment here? It's because they have been lambasted by the likes of you and the others who get hyped up on attacking them and people like me when we have perfectly viable and justifiable questions to ask.

You are the one moaning, Phil. I feel sorry for you. I truly do.
0∈ [?]
06/08/12 12:20 AM GMT
Your thread directly lead to Mimi being upset, so you were ultimately responsible, and now you are slinging mud at me simply because I disagree with you.

Shame on you Cindy! )o:
5∈ [?]
Vote on your future here, and check your monitors calibration here.
06/08/12 12:23 AM GMT
Because I said you were full of yourself? That thread was NOT aimed at mimi and you know it, so I was not responsible. I did not set out with nefarious intent to make mimi feel bad and I think you should stop trying to pin that on me, because it is not becoming of you at all. In fact, mimi was not even on my mind when I wrote that thread.
You are still being ridiculous and that is not mud, that is the truth of the matter.
0∈ [?]
06/08/12 12:36 AM GMT
You've really got carried away this time Cindy )o:

I just hope this negative, and disrespectful thread goes to the Elephant Graveyard real soon, along with that other one where it belongs.

Last comment tonight.
12∈ [?]
Vote on your future here, and check your monitors calibration here.
06/08/12 12:40 AM GMT
That's exactly why you are being so aggressive Phil. I wasn't bothering you in any way and you just started an attack and accused me of doing something that was totally not true. Read your PM and stop trying to bring me down in a thread.

You want this to go to elephant land so your words will be covered up? I don't know why you are doing this or if someone has put yo up to it, but I think even mimi knows that my words were not pointed at her.
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