As I was perusing "old 'new images," an idea came to me. Currently members rate images in the voting both and also have the opportunity to rate them selectively on the image pages. Yet, from what I've gleaned from discussions to date, neither the c-index or selective votes determine whether images are placed in the main "permanent" galleries. As we've all seen, some images with relatively low c-indexes have made the transition, while some images with relatively high c-indexes have not.

We've been told that, ultimately, it's the call of the fine moderators here to determine which images are placed in the main galleries and which are archived. I can see the reason for this, but wonder if members might have a bit more of a voice in this regard by actually NOMINATING images for placement in the main galleries. It could involve a simple checkbox on each image page that members click if they believe the image is worthy of such a distinction. Such nominations would not guarantee placement in the main galleries, but moderators might refer to the number of nominations images receive as one consideration in their evaluation process.

Just a suggestion....<G> Wen

That sounds like a great idea to me. Every once in a while I think every one of us has seen a fine image and wondered why it never made the permanent gallery. It might not guarantee placement, but could at least give the mods something to consider. Great suggestion Wendy!

One thing I can tell you is that moving images to the perms is a very tedious and time consuming proccess. I'm not sure if this would make it easier or not... maybe it would...

I can only imagine how tedious it must be, Sam! You've got LOTS of images to evaluate, and I give you guys a big thumbs up for getting the job done as well as you do! I would think it would be very hard trying to decide at times and don't know if such a member- nominating process would help. Perhaps it would make it easier to decide on some less than clear cut images...? Wen

the members should have a little say in it.If most members lov the pic, it should be evaluated for placement in perm gallery. Just a thought :-)

interesting idea.. depends on how you are going to do it.. if its a voting thing, not a good idea it will probably cause tantrums and tears like the c-index... maybe it could go off how many views or downloads, as long as you only get one registered view and/or download per person, which probably wouldnt work either because a lot dont download.. if its by nomination, would that work? or would it be like a few people on here who vote on their own work etc where they make multiple names and nominate their own work?... im probably wrong but i thought that when the mods were processing the permanent gallery they used the c-index as a guide as well as their good taste..

Jacqueline: There are currently almost 3000 images in the New Images gallery (and there have been more in the past), so the easiest way to move images is sort by c-index (naturally most of the really good images are at the top of the list) and go through as many as I can. So in this way a image with a high c-index has a better chance of being moved to the perms.

didn't i say that? "when the mods were processing the permanent gallery they used the c-index as a guide as well as their good taste.. " LOL

Well... you sounded unsure, so I thought I was answering your question...

First, by logic, members wouldn't be allowed to nominate their own images. Second, number of downloads doesn't say whether or not the image met viewer standards of excellence. It simply says that they looked at the image full size. Third, if indeed moderators are relying heavily on c-index values to wade through all the new images, then lots of good images are likely being missed. Fourth, while I would propose a checkbox on the image page allowing members to nominate, I would NOT make the number of nominations public. Rather, I would make this information accessible only to the moderators and, IF an image is promoted to the main galleries, THEN (and only then) would the number of nominations be revealed on the image page. Again, this would allow members more of a voice and, hopefully, provide moderators with another tool to help them sift through images...............Wen

I really like the idea Wen...only problem I see is one person nominating multiple images...which could make things even harder for the mods...maybe if each person had only one nomination to use each day...I know I see lots of images that I think should be moved to the main gallery...wouldn't be fair to nominate em all...but if I only had one vote to cast, then I would be sure to pick the one I thought was best. Maybe even go a step further and take some of the workload off the mods....once an image receives a certain number on nominations it would automatically go to the the main gallery...possibly taking hundreds of images out of the loop and giving them a chance to evaluate the much overlooked ones that have a lower c-index....Excellent idea Wen!!!!

its a nice idea in principle but it could be open to abuse in the same way the original voting system was with friends and cliques bigging up each others images and leading to all sorts of problems again. im not sure - it might work it might not.

Mods don't rely on the c-index for moving images and never have.The C-index is and always has been a tool mods use to sort the images so they don't have to wade through super low quality images while deciding what to move.I have also saw images with low C-indexes get moved to perm gallery.The users are the ones that elevated it to what it was never intended to be,not the site administration.

Hmmmmmmmm...Well, Take5, Sam stated above that "the easiest way to move images is sort by c-index (naturally most of the really good images are at the top of the list) and go through as many as I can. So in this way a image with a high c-index has a better chance of being moved to the perms..."

While that doesn't mean that mods "rely" exclusively on the c-index for moving images, it does mean that images with low indexes based on 5 to 10 votes are not likely to be given much attention, given the large number of new images that moderators have to consider. You're suggesting that images with relatively low c-indexes are "low quality images," yet I doubt that I'm the only poster here who has seen a number of high quality images with low c-indexes.

I hear ya, Phil. If nominations were PUBLIC, I can see them becoming a devise used by friends and cliques to promote images out of friendship rather than quality concerns. I think such would be less likely if nominations remained unpublished unless images graduated to the main galleries. Wen

What if you weren't allowed to nominate anyone who has been or is on your "friends list" ?? I think maybe that would stop the promotion of images through friendship....or at least the bulk of it.

Moe

Well, Moe, many of the people on my friends list are there because I think they create great images. It doesn't really make sense that I then couldn't nominate any of their images because I put them on my "friends" list. The friends list, by and large, just helps me find images of members that I have come to view as good artists. Wen

I disagree with you Take5.. There a lot of low c-indexed images that deserve the perm gallery... thats why the mods dont exclusively work with that, they only use it as a guide, if they see an image with a low c-index but has great quality, creativity etc.. they will look at putting it in the permanent gallery...

Wen its already been proven that people here will vote to move themselves and their frends higher up in status,so what makes you think is they were given the choice to vote things into the perm gallery that they wouldnt cheat?

J_272004 and Wen the point I was making is the C-Index has no bearing on anything,thats why I said what I did about the low indexed images getting moved.I wasnt implying that low C-Index = low quality images,I was pointing out that it means nothing in the eyes of the mods.

I have a question Wen if you had to pick one of you images as the best thing you have here at the site which one would it be?

Im sorry Take5 but the way I read it is you contradict your self actually first you say "Mods don't rely on the c-index for moving images and never have." then you say "The C-index is and always has been a tool mods use to sort the images so they don't have to wade through super low quality images while deciding what to move." with which you wrote with regard to "super low quality images" and as Sam (who is a mod) stated "so the easiest way to move images is sort by c-index and go through as many as I can." which means they use it as a guideline as well as their eyes. =)

Take5, one of the moderators in this discussion has already said that the c-index does have a bearing on his decision making process for the main galleries, and it only makes sense that it would. As far as my own images, I don't get your point. I'm clearly bias as it relates to my own images and wouldn't be picking and choosing which, if any, I think are good enough to be placed in the main galleries. I see LOTS of great images that were created by members that I don't consider "friends" per se and would happily nominate a number of them if given the chance. It's one thing to support "friends" and point on the positives in their images. It's another to actually "nominate" images for advancement into the main galleries. I, for one, would only do so with images I honestly considered good enough to be there. For some time this site looked to the number of downloads as an indication of image popularity. Yet, as noted above, "downloads" only indicates that the viewer looked at the image full size. I would think that an actual checkbox that members could check to validate their view that the image is good enough to be in the main galleries would be more meaningful than number of downloads. Wen

maybe the checkbox once checked by that member could be blocked so they can only nominate it once... there are a lot of great artists on here with some amazing work to pick just one would be impossible, plus you have to remember that you have your digital artists as well as photographers and illustrators, and as it has been said a few times in various discussions, you will get members who will only look, vote and comment on one style of art, i dont know if the mods are segregated into different styles to chose the images (sam could you answer that one please) eg. mods for chosing photography, mods for choosing digital art etc... if not maybe that could be something to think about, that way all styles would get a fair decision.. just a thought..

No the mods aren't segregated in that way Jacqueline. There are only a few of us who regularly move the images... I probably have been shirking it a bit myself recently actually.

thanks i didnt think so... maybe its something to think about.. eg.. get mods who lean more to digital to do those ones and a few who are interested in the photography side to do those.. that way it's divided up more and gives everyone a fairer go..

I'm in favor of going back to the caveman days .. and that we just grunt louder for the images we like

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right now we have
Comments
Views
DL's
Favorites
Voting Booth
Vote Device (unplugged)
Private Message

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personally .. I wish ONE method of conveying my appreciation of the artists work .. Darwinian selection works for me, implement a "thumbs up" system .. or .. "favorites system" ... there doesn't need to be a way to hurt an image, just support an image ... the images that don't get any favorites didn't motivate anybody to vote that way .. and they will sink to the bottom

the only weighting that would need to be implemented is .. TIME .. due to images that have been here for years (assuming this system were in place from the start) will have more "favs" .. due to more opportunity to get those votes

so .. for example ... # of favs divided by week .. or whatever ... would be all the weighting you need


whether this is the 'cat's meow' of systems is, of course, open to debate

One method would be great. That way, there would be less confusion.

I hate to state the obvious, but maybe we just need more image mods...

good idea, or just some to sort throught the hundreds of new images into a short list

I agree that, since so much discretion is given to moderators as to what images ultimately are promoted to the main galleries, it would make sense to have moderators divided into "specialty" categories. Those who "specialize" in photography should evaluate photography, while those who "specialize" in abstract/fractal art whould evaluate those categories. Likewise, computer generated images should be evaluated by moderators highly familiar with this category of images. It's a big job to be tasked with evaluating hundreds/thousands of images. It would be somewhat easier if moderators were only expected to evaluate categories of images that they feel highly qualified to rate. Wen

my suggestion?
number of downloads divided by number of views multiplied by one hundred. the percentage of downloads in comparison to views. of course, getting a high percentage wouldnt be guaranteed to get your image permanancey, but it could be a good figure to take into consideration...

Number of downloads is not necessarily indicative of a positive evaluation on the part of the onlooker. Rather, it simply means that the viewer took a look at the image full size. Don't know about you, but I've opened a number of images full size, only to decide that I didn't like them all that well. On the other hand, checking a box nominating an image for main gallery placement would indicate that the viewer really liked what he/she saw. Wen

I just had a marvelous idea Wen,since Joost is apparently back maybe he could be in charge of the Main Gallery Nominations review board.His job would be to make sure that there isn't any cheating going on.

HAHAHAHAHAHA.... LMAO@Take5.......

Take 5,, how do you know about Joost when you have only been a member since 2/10/06 hmm?

Burn the witch

which witch??

What a creative way of changing the subject, Take 5. ): Wen

um, i guess im the one who gets to ask who joost is...

Well, Melissa....I'm kinda on the outside looking in on this one too. I can tell you that who Joost is and problems that some here have had with him/her, really has nothing to do with whether or not allowing members to nominate images for the main gallery is a good idea...<G> Wen

Melissa... Joost is a past member who caused a few problems on the site as well as with other members... to know about what happend here's another link which so far down the page gives you a bit of an insight into what happend link

Joost is what an orange is after you squeeze it.

hehehehehehe true a sour one

Wouldn't that be a lemon?