So I ditched the idea of the Hasselblad in the end because I dont think I was quite ready for it. So.... Is there any recommended digital Canon cameras out there?

The new 30 D Canon and the New D200 Nikon both excellent choices.

Is there any reasonably priced? Lets say below $1,200?

both of those cams are about $2-300 more than that if you shop around - you should be able to find the 30D's predecessor, the 20D, on budget though if you shop around.

I'll take a look into that cause that might be a good idea. I was just wondering.. I found the Canon Digital Rebel XT 8MP for about $600. The reviews for it where pretty high but if anyone has it I would like to hear what you think about it.

The dig rebel does not have monochrome setting like the 20D and does not have monochrome setting or spot metering as the 30D does and these are both great fetures. That are usually in the higher end models.

Draco here i have the REBEL XT and it an awsom camera,but it depends on what you like,and what you need for now and the future.

So what areas for intrest would you recommend for using this camera in? Portrait, Landscape, Studio, etc

My mom has the Rebel XT, and I have taken thousands of pictures on it in the past four months. It features a very nice menu system with plenty of extras, including monochrome with colored pre- and post-desaturization filters. It can do just about everything that cameras can do: so much so that the camera's manual can't even hold it all. You can pop the CD in to find out about even mroe cool features (such as programming the camera to take a shot every 9 hours, 59 minutes, and 59 seconds to make a form of time-lapse photography).

The colors really pop with this camera, and they look pretty legitimate too. It can take 3 frames a second, and its buffer can hold 14 frames at a time, but I discovered that if you put in a Lexar 80x CF card, it can take 60 (I counted them) shots in a row before it starts to stutter. It works with all Canon EF lenses as well as EF-S lenses, so you have plenty of options.

It features full manual controls, including control over aperture, shutter, and ISO, but it does have a few downsides. The biggest is that the built-in flash know's no restraint. It really blows out images and their imperfections. Purchasing a Canon Speedlight is not out of the question, but you just need to learn to work without a flash (which I was doing already on that little tank of an Olympus several years ago). The low-noise capabilities are not amazing, but you can only expect so much from a sensor of that size. The ISO ranges from 100-1600 in full-stop increments, but 1600 delivers completely unacceptable levels of grain, and 800 is close behind. 3 frames a second could be limiting depending on your style (as can the 14 frame buffer and possibly the maximum shutter speed of 1/4,000th of a second), but you definitly learn to work with it.

Just remember that the lens matters much more than the camera body does in photography. I would strongly recommend upgrading above the kit lens. Other essentials: a UV filter to protect the lens ($18 and up), a tripod to not cramp the flow of creative juices ($40 and up), and at least one 1Gb CF card ($60 and up).

If you have any questions about this camera or the 30D (arrived on my doorstep this afternoon), feel free to ask either here or via PM.

It sounds pretty good. Besides a few little glitches I think this is a good camera to start with. I've got one last question. Would you recommend buying from ebay. I foud this great deal there for this camera and was wondering if any of you would recommend taking the chance. The link is below but if you have any better suggestions I would appreciate you sharing them. Thanks

Take a look.

Well, the time ran out on that one already, but lets pretend it didn't. It came with a case and some filters, which is good. The microdrive the included actually doesn't work with the camera. You need a Compact Flash card to work, and it is beyond me why they included a microdrive but not a CF card. The printer is a fairly nice one, but the lenses, although Canon, are fairly low quality. It would be better to buy one nice lens than two acceptable lenses. Keep in mind that it is the lens that controls what image you are going to get, not the body. Also, the flash looks pretty weak. It may be as limiting as the built-in flash.

Buying from Ebay can be a good idea, butt here are a few guidelines to follow. Make sure it comes factory sealed with the full 1 year U.S. warranty. You don't want to buy a camera that was stolen over seas only to have it malfunction and have no where to turn. If the price is too good to be true, it probably is. Try to find people who have made a lot of sales and have a high customer satisfation rating. The best case scenario is if you can find a photography store in New York selling off its overstock. They will be reasonably priced, new, and you can pretty much be guaranteed it will get to you.

Keep checking Ebay, but also check places like pricegrabber.com. You can call Canon (1-800-OK-CANON) and ask if the site you are looking at is an authorized dealer.

So would you say that the best idea is to get the lenses and whatever else I need independently instead of wasting the money on a few poor quality lenses?

If you want to take a risk on ebay, you can get good lenses there too, so you can do whatever you like. I personally prefer buying something this expensive from an authorized dealer. You know for sure you are going to get it, and if you ever have trouble you have a store to help you out a little.

Also, on a side note, that micro drive will work with that camera. It is memory that uses a disk like a hard drive as apposed to flash memory, but it is compatible with devices that use a CF card.

Not necessarily. Just keep in mind that the 18-55mm is Canon's poorest quality lens. I certainly don't expect you (or me, or anybody) to be able to purchase Canon L series lenses right off the bat, but it would be prudent to buy a lens or two that will remain in your selection for years to come rather than those that are only useful as learning lenses. (In other words, if you need to buy a lens, make sure ahead of time that you won't throw it away as soon as you learn more about it).

Although Digital Photography Review does a great job reviewing cameras, you need to head over to Fred Miranda to get some real lens reviews. Bookmark that page, you will need it later. They give useful descriptions, pros & cons, recommendation percentages, and even ball-park prices. Also, I work at a camera store, and I know more about lenses than anyone else in my store (manager included). My strong point is Canon lenses, so you are asking the right person.

I can't pick out lenses for you because I don't know your style. For me, I wouldn't mind using a 70-300 as my walkaround lens (which is odd enough in itself), but because I need to be able to focus at extremely close distances, my current choice for a walkaround lens is a prime (fixed focal length) macro lens (officially off the deep end for normality). If you don't know what your needs are, just describe your style and which features you use most on whatever camera you are currently with. Whether you choose to start with me or looking around Fred Miranda, the other can fill in the blanks and keep the accuracy relevent. Keep me posted.

So instead of buying that package off of ebay.Your saying I would most likely get a better deal in a proper camera store. Possibly not in the price but more so in the quality of the product. So my idea is to buy the Camera seperate possibly second hand maybe from amazon or some store nearby. I'll get 1 lens that is about double the cost of the 2 of those. The Canon 17-40mm. I dont really see the need for another case of filters so I'll leave those out until I think I could use them. Any suggestions with this feel free to post.

The 17-40 is a very nice lens. It is L series, which means you can't really go wrong. L series means that it is built like a tank, has superior optical quality, and everybody who is anybody will see the red ring and identify it as a professional grade lens (which it is).

It does have USM, which is the abbreviation for Canon's Ultrasonic Motors. The are known, with exceptions, to focus very quickly and very quietly. There are two types of USM: Micro USM and Ring-type USM, but both of them spin using "ultrasonic oscillation energy", which is a fairly new technology. Micro USM uses small motors of ordinary shape to do the job, but Ring-type are a bit different. They are slightly nicer, for what reason I am not sure, but they are generally saved for Canon's highest end glass in the telephoto and super-telephoto range. The 17-40 does use the Ring-type (I am not sure why, but it is a plus). Also, the focusing is not done on the front-side of the lens. This allows it all to be done internally, so no lens parts actually extend or twist on the outside of the case. You can adjust the focus ring at anytime to override the automatic focus, but press the shutter halfway down again, and it will snap back to whatever the camera thinks is best.

The Rebel XT (like the Rebel, 10D, 20D, and 30D) has a focus length multiplier of 1.6. This means that because the sensor is small, it only accepts light from the middle section of the lens rather than the entire lens. To figure out exactly what length the equivalent of the lens is, you multiply the mm's by 1.6. This converts your newly purchased 17-40mm into a 27-64mm as long as it is on a camera featuring that size sensor. 50mm is roughly what the eye sees, so you can zoom in and back out a little from that, but no serious zooming on either end.

The f-stop isn't wonderful, but it does remain constant through the entire zooming range, which is a blessing. Just keep in mind that this is a heavy and large lens. It is not nearly as compact as a standard kit lens. I, for one, don't mind carrying around klonkers if it is payed backed in image quality, so it really depends on you preferences. Picking up a used camera is probably a good idea. Just know who you are getting it from so you have a way to contact them if it doesn't work. I have trouble buying used stuff because I like to know where it has been and what kind of abuse it has suffered. This could make car shopping interesting. :-D

You are right, you don't need several cases of filters, but do make sure you atleast get a clear or UV filter for it right off the bat and keep it on at all times. You can get a Hoya UV filter (multi-coated, of course) for pretty cheap from B&H, and Hoya is a respected brand. If you did hapen to scratch the front element or make a mistake when cleaning it, I am sure that you would rather pay $20-something for a new filter than $600-something for a new lens. I need to get to class.

It seems like it would be pretty good. If you have any other suggestions I would gladly like to hear your opinion.

I can only ramble so much without questions to guide me. :-D

Mainly, just realize that you won't be given a lot of zoom range. If that is cool with you, then it may be the perfect lens. If not, well, you picked a great lens to start. I won't try to convince you that the 17-85mm is a better lens, but most people appreciate the versatility of the range and IS. If you are about image quality, then the 17-40 is the way to go. I probably wouldn't consider it for myself because the f-stop is lower and it is not stabalized, but you can only combat that in a reasonable price range by going for a fixed lens. I will admit, it is rough having a fixed lens only to start. Mine arrived less than a week ago, and I am finding it very interesting. :-)

Sounds like fun. :) Gotta learn something new anyway, I'm getting kinda bored with the stuff I use. I'v got one last question. You say you worked in a photography store? I'm planning on trying to get a job at the local one around here called Henry's. Have any tips?

Yes, I do. :-)

Before you decide you want a job there, find out a little bit more about it. We don't have a ton of photography stores around in this area, but let me describe what we do have. I live just outside the suburbs of a pretty big city, and, althought there are a few really nice stores deep in the city, it just isn't conventional for us 'burb dwellers to travel all the way there. There are Ritz Cameras (where I work) everywhere and one nicer store by the name of National Camera Exchange (I believe). I didn't use to think there was a difference, but there is. A big difference.

Camera stores always have a target market, and you should figure out what that target market is before you decide if it is the job for you. At Ritz Camera, they want to have service that is more knowledgeable and easier to find that at Best Buy or Circuit City, but they are aiming for mostly ignorant average Joe's who decide they want a camera for some reason. They carry all the accessories, such as tripods, memory cards, and bags, but they really don't stock the good stuff. They contact a brand that makes equipment already and ask them to make specialty items for Ritz. Example: Ritz wants a tripod with their name on it, so they call up Sunpak and talk them into making a tripod line sold exclusively at Ritz labeled "Quantaray - by Sunpak". It is lower quality and very well priced, so they market it to those who either can't tell the difference between a nice one and a Quantaray or don't care. Ritz does the same thing with memory cards by Lexar and lenses by Tamron and Sigma, all under the name of Quantaray. When you are as serious about this kind of stuff as we nerds are, we want the best lenses, sturdiest tripods, fastest memory cards, and so on. The point of all that is that, knowing you as much as I do from seeing your interests and decisions, you want legit. quality and you aren't going to compromise, settle, or be fooled by cheaper (and somewhat useless) things. Don't get a job at a camera store where you interpret numbers into qualified data for oblivious customers, get a job where knowledgeable people come to talk about the real stuff. Don't get a job with watered-down products for amazing prices, get a job where you sell the best and know them inside and out just because it is what you use at home or dream about buying yourself. If you get a job at the wrong store, you will work at one by day and drool at the other by night (like I do at National Camera Exchange), and there is or should be some law about that somewhere.

I have a test for you. Go to Henry's and ask a sales associate there if they sell Gitzos. Gitzo is pronouned with the "g" from "galaxy", the "i" from "ribbit" (the sounds that frogs make), and the "o" from "go". They are a very old company, but they make the best tripods in the world. They set and maintain the standard for being the professionals first and only choice. Chances are that they won't stock Gitzos, but don't be surprised at that. Worst case scenario is if you ask the sales associate and (s)he looks at you with a blank expression and then turns and asks the nearest (and possibly only) manager, who also has no idea what you are talking about. If that happens, don't get a job there, because I can guarantee you won't appreciate it in the long run. If the sales associate knows what a Gitzo is, you are golden. If (s)he doesn't but the manager does and says that you can order it through them, that is certainly fine. Just give the employee a break: (s)he is new. Many photographers use a Gitzo as a silent test to see if new assistants know what they are doing. If they know how to work a Gitzo, they are worth having around. If it takes them a minute (they twist backwards because they are French made), they better have already told you that they are new.

Working in a camera store can be a pretty good experience. They may ask you to wait a year because of your age, but then again they might not. Always remember that retail can be very pushy, so don't be surprised when you get shoved around when it comes to your working hours and anything, really. If Henry's is a corperate conglomerate, they will be obsessed with each associate's numbers and squeezing the most money out of each customer. If it isn't, you just may find it to be the kind of place that has excellent (and vast) in-store management, focuses on extreme quality of service, and stocks the best. You can usually identify these by the amount of dedicated amateurs and professionals who just come in to talk about equipment.

Just an afterthought, don't lie on your application or in an interview. I know a that said, "I actually want the job because I am a and I need to shop, which requires money." The manager looked at her and responded, "I wasn't going to hire you unless you said that."

Gitzo. I'll remember that.. lol. Nice talkin to you and thanks a ton for your help. By the way is there any photography schools that you know of that may accept someone who is 15 years old? I usually spend my summers in New York with my step dad and mom so if you know any place I'd love to hear it.

There might be something local, but I wouldn't know. I habe had three schools highly recommended to me by the photographer I work for. RIT (Rochester Institute of Technology) is in New York and has a great photography program (although more technical than some most). Brooks Institute of Photography and Art Center College of Design are both in California, Santa Barbara and Pasadena respictively. They are all specialized colleges though...highschool is probably a prerequisit. :-) I am in the same boat as you, so no shame.

You work for a photographer? Is it an apprenticeship or co-op?

Consider it an internship. I do whatever menial chores he asks and I get to see him work. On a good day, we can talk equipment some and he may even analyze some of my work. My official title is "Freelance Photographic Assistant". I am "freelance" because I am not an employee at the studio. If I were to become an employee, then I would have to pay taxes on my earnings. He is allowed to pay me $600 tax free, but any more than that, I need to become an official employee. He is keeping track of my hours and plans to pay me at the end. Not all internships are paid, but this one is. Lots of photographers want interns, but they tend to be the studio-owning kind and they hire or acquire you basically to clean the studio once a week.

There is no fast track to being a photographer. The best way to become one is to intern for studios while you work your way through highschool and normal college. When you are able, it is expected that you go to a photography school (or atleast a school that has enough of a photography program that you can get a degree). Once you are out of school, people will start to consider you for being an assistant. Sometimes assistants shoot, but, more often than not, they build and take down sets, arrange lighting and other equipment, and basically watch to jump in and help do whatever the photographer decides needs to be done during a shoot. After you help assist for multiple years (often more than a decade), you can consider going off on your own. The problem is that being a professional photographer means that you have to know how to manage your own mini company. Business skills and artistic talent behind the lens rarely come in the same package, so you often run into boring photographers lacking vision and extremely dedicated photographers that can't survive in the business world. From what I have seen, the more commercial you go (i.e. the more money you make), the less fun you have doing it. Advertising kills the artistic eye.

But that doesn't mean you should try to get in with a photographer. They tend to buy studios in the downtown section of large cities. If you are near one, see if you can find some kind of listing. For example, I checked at Minnesota Creative to find the best photographers in Minnesota. If you can find a listing, all of the photographers on it are going to be big, because they pay thousands a year to be listed in whatever list you are looking at. Find one close to where you are living (reasonable driving distance) and just start calling and asking if they would like an assistant. Don't expect to be paid (although many will pay you anyways) because it really helps you look interested in the career rather than weekend money. They will turn you into a janitor, so don't be surprised. The two rules for shoots when clients are around: Never ask if there is something to do (it bothers and distracts more than proves that you are a hard worker) and be-seen-but-not-heard (if somebody is carrying something, help them out, but never offer advice. You have no opinion).

I was actually consider doing the same thing. My school offers a co-op program and some people came in today and one of the choices they told us was a photographers assistant. I'm not sure if I would take it during the year because my family wants me to stick with the physics and math etc you get the idea instead but I might take it over the summer instead. Just out of curiousity do you know if there is any money outside of avertising. I'm guessing its rare but some guys that I have heard of that are famous apperantly barely work in the studio. Maybe its a misconception but one of my favorite gallerys that has nothing to do with studio work is this guys. David Trood. I dont really know how much he makes but he was voted as being one of the Hasselblad masters of the year which must obviously do some good for him.

My personal favorite is Douglas Ethridge. I checked out David Trood, and even though he doesn't spend his days in the studio, his work still looks very commercial. Almost all of it is marketable, just maybe not with a clear advertising goal already stated. You don't have to be a studio photographer to be in the business - photojournalism, sports photography, and just plain art make money too, but they are hard to find (especially that last one). I do know one guy who is an indistrial photographer. In a nutshell, he photographs things like bobcats and other heavy equipment. It probably is also for one form of advertising or another, but I imagine he does a lot more on-site than studio work. On-sight work is fun because you get to work with available light and make the best of it. Also, you can't be the one to blame if the lighting isn't exactly perfect. :-D Well, advertising is where the money is at, and that is what matters for most, but most actually get ruined by it, in my humble opinion. :-)

I don't know how real a scholastic photographer program could be, but, then again, I don't know your school. Some highschools offer photography, but most don't. Many colleges do as a basic few courses, but expect them all to be b&w (color labs are expensive, dangerous, and just plain 'ol less fun). If you want to know how photographers often survive in the business and what their struggles and joys are actually like, you need to work for one who is up to his ears in normal business. How else are you going to learn that food photography is difficult and painful, ice cream most of all?

hmmmmm..................... I think I might just take a summer co-op program next year for a photographers assistant. I think it will give a good idea into what the job is like within a specific field. The other idea I had was instead of taking any lessond at all I would just explore the possibilities. My step dad is good friends with the famous photographer Nigel Parry so I might talk to him about that and hopefully over time work myself into the business. Otherwise my only option is to play the waiting game until I can go to University or College.

One thing I left out: the entire time you are waiting to get in the business, the internships, the college, and the assisting, you still need to be taking tons of pictures. Taking lots of pictures helps you understand what all the numbers mean, give you a better eye at picking out what in a picture is good, and, possibly most important, learning to think like a camera. It sounds corny, but a lot of times, because they know I like photography, say "Take a picture of that! It looks cool." but I can tell that it wouldn't make a good picture because I am learning to see how things will turn out in the camera before I even pick it up. So yeah. Keep taking pictures, because that is the most important part.

I'm going to NY next weekend for easter so I'll be taking a few there so look for some new posts. :-)