http://www.caedes.net/Zephir.cgi?lib=Caedes::Infopage&image=EmilyH-1148913852.jpg

WTF? My fractal got a c-index of 7. That's like saying it completely sucks. What the heck? I got such nice comments but such a lousy c-index? I can't believe that people here hate fractals that much that they'd all give me a 0 or a 1! Sheesh. At least give me some feedback and tell me WHY you voted that low. I mean, it really hurts when 11 people essentially say your picture sucks and won't tell you why.

Fractal Feathers

I like the blues, but I'd suggest sharpening it a bit at the center to create more depth. But it definitely doesn't deserve such a low rating. Also, I've noticed that most people here are more into photography than fractals, and so typically fractals have a tendency to get lower ratings. I also sometimes get a bit disappointed when my digital illustrations get low ratings, but I don't really care for the c-index as it's not important and it doesn't determine if the image gets into the perms.

I will try sharpening it when I get home from work. Thanks. It was just really frustrating.

I get frustrated too...it's weird, the one's you like and think will do well don't and the one's you're not even sure if you wanna post skyrocket. Go figure. I checked out you piece, it's nice...luv the blue tones but agree about it being a wee grainy. Keep playin' around and don't hesitate to post anything, the one's you think will flop sometimes fly high.

It's not just computer generated stuff that gets ratings this low, so you can't say that that is the reason. Maybe it helps bring it down, but i have seen some pretty decent photos rated low like this.

Personally when i took a look at the image in question i found there wasn't much to grab attention with. It looks kind of neat, but i don't find there to be a subject to it. On a personal note im not a huge fan of the color, and since it is very overwhelming if other people feel the same that could bring your vote down aswell. Of course i am one voice so i wouldn't expect you to ake what i say to be the reason it is so low. I just thought i would toss in some oposite side of the arguement from how i see it.

While it's true that fractal artists get the short end of the stick more than photographers around here.. the fractal itself needs to carry its weight and be worthy, be interesting, be full of activity, be colorful, be captivating ... there should be some feeling that you haven't absorbed the entire essence with one glance

You will find that only other fractal artists can appreciate a creation that doesn't meet all of the above .. and when choosing what to post you should at least understand, going in, that if your image is put in front of 10 people with little tolerance for anything but what they like ... it's going to suffer

there is a Fractal Contest at DeviantArt .. Had you posted the image that is being given as a prize it would have scored higher from the exact same people that voted on your image ... because it grabs your attention ... you should always post as though you are entering a contest

my name is Keifer, and I approved this message

I have a Deviant Art account under the user name emilymhanson. I will check it out. Thanks.

Perhaps a major contributing factor in the fractal rough end of the stick scenario is the distinct lack of fractal artists actually using the voting booth to vote on images on a regular basis. Out of curiosity I did a quick run through of the most active VOTING members on the site and fewer than 5% of them were traditional fractal or cg artists. The actual figure maybe much lower but it got a bit depressing by that point so I cut the cross section sample there. It is true to say that many deserving photographs get the shaft too but as it appears that more photographers avail themselves of the voting facility this is probably less prominent, from a superficial level at least. I could of course be completely wrong but it’s a point worth considering.

I usually vote when I'm bored at work. It only takes like 5-10 minutes to vote on all the selections, and it's 5-10 minutes of downtime that I would've spent doing something else on the Internet anyway. Really, if you have time to kill, it's not a bad way to kill it.

I was astonished yesterday… I went in and did about 10, and got 5 fractals in there… I usually never get more than 1 or 2 in a batch of 10

Emily, I feel your pain. I've been trying to improve my work, and when I think I have a great image - the c-index says otherwise. The new relative c-index makes me feel alot better since it's only comparing abstracts with other abstracts. However, I really wish they had separate voting booths for various categories. I like what I see in your gallery :) Please don't get discouraged!!!!

Maybe we should collaborate !

Well, I deleted the image in question, but I ended up layering it into "Shine". I like the relative c-index too.

What difference would separate voting booths make seeing as how the larger majority of cg members aren’t voting now anyways? Are they going to get some sort of epiphany? That aside I believe such a scheme would promote a degree of elitism and segregation that wouldn’t be in the best interests of the community as a whole.

Forget about the c-index. It counts for very little in the grand scheme. The numbers that actually mean something are the ratio between the views and the downloads, and the downloads themselves. I have one that started out with a c-index of 9 and has steadily dropped to a 6. No big deal to me, though. Since I submitted it four days ago, it's been downloaded 91 times. I read in another discussion where someone said that the download number records people just looking at the image and not necessarily downloading it. So I experimented with that and the download number changed only if I actually downloaded the image to my hard drive. Viewing it at a specified size, from the sizes shown below the image, didn't change it at all. So as I said, forget the c-index. People vote on these images with very little attendant information.

hey dont fret, i just posted an entry that i thought was halfway decent, and it tanked with a whole "5"

snap

um snap? is this where i add "crackle" ?

only if you feel the need to pop

somewhere, johnny carson is chuckling

Im posting this message on every thread where there isnt a linked thingi that is supposed to be. =P ...ps, i looked at the image...i think the new one. It looks good. Maybe for some ppl its too colorful(?) or grainy (?). Dunno, im just trying to stay on subject. lol.

ps: look at my sig...umm..the litte writting

Which new image?

i believe this is the revamped version...maybe not...who knows..

Actually, that was a completely different picture, I just layered the old picture in with something else.

I do think it is a travesty that any artist could be selfish enough to give a low score to any work just because it is not "their particular interest". How disheartening. It doesn't require anybody to switch their genre of interest to show common courtesy and consideration in the voting booth-----that is, IF they even bother to vote at all.
Then we have those REALLY selfish artists who only comment on work they feel is worthy
and too selfish to give newbies the time of day. I am in a lousy mood and ready to leave caedes again....and if I offended anybody---GOOD...then it's probably YOU that I am talking about. Stop whining, stop being so damned selfish and think about your fellow artists in this community. I am ready to puke over the hateful crap that goes on around here. If you don't UNDERSTAND fractals.....or PHOTOGRAPHY...or any genre that is not YOUR genre....and you don't care to attempt to learn about it, then why is it so hard to just think about the fact that there are people here who come to Caedes to feel better about themselves and share their perspective on THEIR art....and give them credit for their perspective and stop viewing everything as "not as nice as you can do"...or not your style of art...blah-blah blah-f-g blah.
shame me...elephant gun me.....
whatever
Sorry Emily----seeing this just fuels my disgust at selfish morons......

Yeah...good point, although I admit that I used to have a tendency to vote a bit lower on fractals, but now I haven't voted in ages to avoid that happening. I am in no way a fan of fractals - most of them look the same to me unless they are really striking. I have tried REALLY hard to judge them more fairly, but I just don't have an eye for fractals. That's why I had to quit voting in the booth. I personally prefer either 3D images or photographs - I don't know much about 3D images, but I do read tutorials to get a rough idea of how much effort was put into an image. I've done Apophysis fractals but if I had to vote on mine, I honestly wouldn't have much of an idea what to give. I've tried judging by colors, design, etc but I still have a tough time.

Noor, I happen to admire you VERY, VERY much. That is 100% sincere.
So....you have a rep for being a little "scrapper"....gettin in trouble now and then.... oh well. You do a service on Caedes and you are way under-appreciated. There are many people here who have put tedious hours into commenting as many images as possible....and then threads pop up that "this one or that one thinks they are insincere, comments are quantity, not quality....some think that Caedes offering "token gifts" is wrong....when the man and mods do all they can to try to even the voting scores, to get attention to the lesser known people, etc-etc. Everything always gets shot down for this reason or that.
Not mentioning names, and not necessary coz it covers several people here, people whine that they do not rate high enough on the C-Index, or get preturbed when they see a work they feel inferior to their own gets more comments than theirs or a higher C-index.
Then I just have to shake my head and say what a bunch of crap when I see those same people ADMIT they either: do not appreciate having to vote on images they dislike, OR they PM YOU....Hernoor, and tell you they do not like your CRITIQUES on their work, and then later are seen saying the QUALITY of the COMMON COMMENTERS suck and we are NOT SINCERE, blah blah blah. I sometimes wonder why Caedes doesn't just get disgusted and sell the site to some jerk who changes this site and then we can all cry over the loss of Caedes, which definitely stands high and mighty over all the rest of the sites. When that happens, I am dropping art as a hobby and taking up paint gunning.
Noor: sadly...you are not respected as much as you deserve because it maybe is unsettling to some OLDER people that a whippersnapper like YOU dares to critique them. I'm not saying sometimes you are not wrong here and there...JUST AS ALL OF US ARE here and there!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! You cover a lot of territory here and regardless of your comment....or any other TOP COMMENTER'S comments "seeming" lacking in quality...the fact you put your TIME....all those hours into the site, trying to give people NOT on the massive friend lists some attention, as well as the POPULAR artists....THAT IS QUALITY COMMENTING. YOU CARE. You are honest...oooooh, that scares people! So you don't like fractals. HONESTY. May I suggest that you consider VOTING anyway....and when you get a fractal, at least consider it AVERAGE..if it doesn't bite you on the butt with greatness. For anybody to vote anybody's work LESS THEN AVERAGE....I do hope it is because you truly think the work is LESS than average....or SUCKS. I have put plenty of work up here that out and out sucks. So I laugh at it, eventually delete it and work harder next time...or maybe I put another up that sucks just as comic relief. But for me to actually vote on a work and give less than 5....I try my very best to consider every aspect first and not allow my disinterest in the genre or artist play a part in my vote.
Then we have the BORROWERS.....the ones who collect and never submit art. Who knows what kind of votes they give. Maybe having to vote is tedious to them...and they don't care about the artists..as long as they get their free art....{ some may...but we have to be realistic and assume many laugh and just give 0 and 1's to people no matter what genre. { or am I mistaken that the ones who just lurk and take are required to vote?}
Sigh: so yes, I am babbling....but I guess there is a reason behind being called MadMaven....

Thanks for all the nice words! *bear hugs*

Terri...I must say that I also admire you and your commenting - I don't know how you manage to comment honestly on so many images. Plus you are sincerely HONEST in your posts - isn't that what matters? The Comment Request feature specifically requests you to give your honest opinion. On another thread, Cat and Klas (kjh000) were suggesting that on the upload page, there should be an option in which the author can say what kind of comments they want to get, and that would stop all this whining about negative comments. I've seen really good artists asking for critiques while some think their work is absolutely faultless. And yes, unfortunately there are people who would shake off my critiques if they knew my age.

I wasn't active on the site last year during the start of random voting, so I have no idea how I would have reacted if my c-indexes dropped - although mine are so bad now that I don't see how they could go any further down =/

I used to vote 0 or 1 only on the snapshots. I do occasionally post a snapshot kind of picture for humor, like that shot of my tat (which I deleted since I should be putting up a clearer digital version in a while).

I think the reason why I have a hard time voting on fractals is because I have a tough time interpreting abstract art. I suggest we allow the voter to see the description of the image while voting - it might help. I don't want to post this suggestion in the Non-Art Issues board - it would just cause another heated c-index debate at some point. I'll try and follow your suggestion with the fractals *goes off to voting booth*

Done with the voting - There were a couple FTP/VChira/Tierazon fractals, but I find it a lot easier to vote on those. I didn't come across a single Apophysis - *sighs in relief*

See....Just look at Noor...., she is always willing to TRY her best.
I guess everybody that comes here has their own personal reasons...whether for friendships, critiques, to be encouraged and even coddled...some for fractals, photos....etc...but DISSENTION, RESENTMENT, NO WILLINGNESS TO BE COURTEOUS OR CONSIDERATE to our fellow Caedesians will eventually be the downfall here---PERIOD. NO...I do not have PMS today...I am just a " ".....but an honest one.....
Another CRITIQUE: people should like people or dislike people INDIVIDUALLY, and NOT coz their friends like or dislike somebody.
Noor may be a YOUNGSTER....but she is more mature than most of ALL OF US here...

Thanks again for all the kind words! I don't think I'm that mature though - still got to learn a lot! I do agree that people shouldn't make assumptions based on what their friends think.

i previously commented on this issue, in other boards. i'm not sure but perhaps one might form a few ideas on how to vote on pieces in media they dont know. i also commented on the other issue here, the parameters of what might be expected in comments themselves...hope this helps, and doesnt just fuel the fire

1) I was just voting last night, and came across a few selections last night that i wasn't sure how to judge. And as others have pointed out, not every artist is well enough versed in all media that we'd come across in this site.

Having said that, I looked at them individually as pieces of art. Color, layout or composition, texture, etc were all taken into consideration. Did it say anything, did it jump out at me, or was it just (sorry) blah? Sad to say, but there were a few blah's.

As for the question of voting versus non-voting, I'd have to favor voting. While yes, there might be a few votes cast by those who don't feel equipped or inspired to do so, the overall benefit outweighs the risk. If my work inspires 2's and 3's, regardless of someone's personal taste as an artist, that pushes me to raise the bar, not whimper in self-pity.And should I land higher votes, well then, success!

Art IS subjective, and while certain qualities can be found, we really aren't all grading this with the same scorecard, but then, how could we?

2) for the technical and photographic critiques, i say thank you, whether i agree strongly, somewhat, or not at all, i appreciate the effort made. perhaps, though, i needed to be more specific and ask that comments be limited to my photos themselves. questioning my ability to understand the concept of 'desktop wallpaper' would be a bit beyond that scope.

Hi Rob! { shakes hand}....I agree with all you said....:)
Hey Noor....c'mere you lil whippersnapper! You said my spider Daedra was blurry!
{ sticks tongue out} was not! Was not! It was CLEAR and a macro...and PERFECT as a photo...so nanny nanny boo-boo...and I MANIP'D it to be weird and blurry and NMSMITH liked it....uh...I think...he said "impressive"....and we all agreed saying COOL means IT sucks...and I do not think Impressive means cool or it sucks...so hahaha
{ oooops, that little outburst was certainly not mature....:)

All kidding aside: If NMSMITH commented on my work and said out and out that it sucked, I'd still be flattered! That man is one of my idols...:)

I agree with Rob - I just have a hard time interpreting abstracts and all colors are fine with me, so I usually judge an Apophysis on the design, although there are a few that really stand out (which get a higher vote).

One thing I have noticed about fractals is - how 3D it looks typically determines the perm inclusion and rating. An image with a 3D ribbon standing out against the black is much more likely to get a higher vote than one with a plain flat stripe. I think that may be because people are looking for depth on their desktops - not just in fractals, but also in photos and 3D renders. Plus there are a bunch of fractals that have those little "pinpoints" of light that creates a 3D effect - those also get high ratings.

LOL..of course that was just my humble opinion so feel free to berate me =)

That could very well be, hernoor. Also, the more colors a design has tends to help. A high-quality render helps. And post-processing, such as adding a frame or lens flare effect or something else that can't be done with a fractal program, helps too.

*passes out free drinks all around*

*passes terri the extra sinful chocolates while I'm @ it*

(I've commented enough on all of these issues… if you don't know me opinion by now… I'm not dredgin it back up! lol)