Caedes

A few changes to the rating system

Submitted by caedes 06/06/05 2:10 AM GMT

I've just made a few changes to the rating system which will change many of the c-indexes on the site, so I'm going to head off any questions about the changes made. There has been a problem with some images recording more downloads than views. This was screwing up the c-index since it depended on the ratio of these two values. As a quick fix to this problem I've changed the c-index so that it will be equal to the rating (average of the votes). Hopefully this will be a temporary fix. I have also changed the ordering of the author list in order to give more credit for authors with images in the permanent galleries.

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::Radjehuty
06/06/05 2:45 AM GMT
Well I respect all that you do to improve this site. And yes that is a problem with the odd ratios of some of the images. However, my highest scored image is probably one of my worste ones lol. Oh well, thanks though.
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"The person who says it cannot be done, should not interrupt the person doing it." -Chinese Proverb
stuffnstuff
06/06/05 4:19 AM GMT
I noticed that I can no longer see my own c-index from the caedes control if it doesn't have five votes yet. Is this new as well? I would think that votes would be the most consistent source of value, but if you think otherwise, you have been doing this longer than myself. I trust your wisdom, oh mighty one. :-)

It really is too bad about that boost for authors of images in the permanent galleries. To find my name on the author page, should I take the page number I was on and add roughly 50? :-D
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-those who hit rock bottom are too concerned with self pity to realize that they are lying on an anvil- Psalm 66:10, Job 10:8
*caedes
06/06/05 4:27 AM GMT
The c-index isn't even calculated if your image has less than 5 votes. Once it is calculated for the first time you'll be able to view it.
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-caedes
::Torque
06/06/05 5:31 AM GMT
Just wanted to report a confusing type-o in the original post of this discussion. I believe that was meant to say that the c-index WILL be equal to the rating. You have my permission (not that you need it) to delete this comment after fixing the type-o so it will not create additional confusion when the type-o no longer exists :). Also, as an alternative quick fix if you were so inclined could you have the c-index calculation only disregard those instances when the downloads are higher than the views and still use all the criteria for the majority of images? Maybe even just use min(views,downloads) / max(views,downloads). That would be a little odd in those rare cases but at least it would handle everything without unnaturally inflating anything...

***EDIT*** Type-o in question has been fixed :)
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~My select image - Wading Patiently
::Radjehuty
06/06/05 5:50 AM GMT
well all I have to say is, sort the permanent galleries by C-Index, and see if this new system is accurate, I would like to hear some oppinions about that.
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"The person who says it cannot be done, should not interrupt the person doing it." -Chinese Proverb
PrettyFae
06/06/05 3:48 PM GMT
I'd never noticed that problem before...but having the c-index and rating the same sure is much easier for us simpletons to understand ;]
(I never really got how the c-index and rating worked anyway though, because sometimes, one of my images would have a rating of something like 94 but only a c-index of about 75...hmmm...)
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+ppigeon
06/06/05 5:02 PM GMT
Maybe that's me, but the c-index is totally different than before the last change... Looking at my 'Caedes control', I see that c-index = rating. Isn't it odd? :-O
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-Pierre-
MythD
06/06/05 5:12 PM GMT
Question, why have a ratings and a c-index if they are to be the same? Is this just a check and balance? I thought the rating was how many viewed and downloaded while the c-index also figured the votes into the equation. If that is the case, then the c-index could be different from the ratings for better or worse depending on the vote! But I am new to this site and love it so am just trying to educate myself on how it all works. Keep up the great work!
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scionlord
06/06/05 6:25 PM GMT
hmm....that makes sense....I think *scratches head*
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'Study the past, if you would divine the future.' - Confucius ................. Pieces to Ponder : Hazy, Glowball Extreme ..................................... These are the sorry recipients of minimal voting. Please make them feel wanted.... Balls of Fire, Magneato Shift (Collaboration), Blurred Boxes
::drgibson
06/06/05 7:02 PM GMT
Well this change certainly dropped my c-index considerably. I hope that this can be resolved soon. Iím not sure my ego can take it~~~~

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Capturing for infinity that which only lasts for a short time.
PrettyFae
06/06/05 8:23 PM GMT
Awww...
That's weird...it seemed to give mine a boost ^_^
There's just one thing I still don't understand, though...how is the c-index calculated now?
(sorry if this has already been mentioned before and all I'm achieving by saying this is a reputation for being a fool :P)
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DixieNormus
06/06/05 8:30 PM GMT
My c-index pretty much stayed the same.....but now you can find me on page # 6874 of the Author's list! =0)
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PrettyFae
06/06/05 8:34 PM GMT
Hehe, yeah I've moved down 5 pages :(
Oh well...I suppose this way it is slighly fairer ^_^
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::Morwyn
06/06/05 9:49 PM GMT
My c-indexes went up and I went down on the author list.. It is fairer.. Much farier..
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::Radjehuty
06/06/05 11:04 PM GMT
lol
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"The person who says it cannot be done, should not interrupt the person doing it." -Chinese Proverb
::Radjehuty
06/06/05 11:05 PM GMT
I was just wondering, why exactly the C-Index is now based purely on the average of the votes?
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"The person who says it cannot be done, should not interrupt the person doing it." -Chinese Proverb
::CanoeGuru
06/07/05 12:21 AM GMT
Caedes did mention that this is a temporary fix. Maybe a new c-index calculation is in the works?
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~~~~~ bleegity, blargity, blah
+Samatar
06/07/05 1:25 AM GMT
Yes people, you really should read the article properly before you comment on it! All the questions people have asked are pretty much answered.

Quote: "As a quick fix to this problem I've changed the c-index so that it will be equal to the rating (average of the votes). Hopefully this will be a temporary fix." So the answers to the above questions are: Yes, the c-index is the same as the rating, but only temporarily; the reason for having a c-index and a rating that are the same is that is is only temporary, and once the system is updated they will be different again. It's not that complicated really... ;-)
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-Everyone is entitled to my opinion- Visit the new improved rescope.com.au
stuffnstuff
06/07/05 1:32 AM GMT
If it is, although this may be small, I am hoping for another change. For the moment, I am not sure, but it has been in the system for a long time that when I view my own images to check on comments, it adds that to the views number. If I don't download my own image, I feel like my rating is unfair because I hurt it, and if I do download it, then I feel like I have cheated my rating. The website alright is smart enough not to give me the option to vote on my own images, shouldn't it be smart enough to not let my views and downoads count?

Again, not a huge deal, but if it isn't too difficult to fix...
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-those who hit rock bottom are too concerned with self pity to realize that they are lying on an anvil- Psalm 66:10, Job 10:8
::Radjehuty
06/07/05 2:09 AM GMT
ah ok, nevermind :P
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"The person who says it cannot be done, should not interrupt the person doing it." -Chinese Proverb
::Morwyn
06/07/05 2:59 AM GMT
I do want to clarify.. I was speaking on how the Author List is figured not the c-index.
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lowlander
06/07/05 5:23 AM GMT
My latest upload has 18 votes and still 0 c-index. Something isn't working as well as it should.
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+Samatar
06/07/05 6:09 AM GMT
That's because c-indexes are only updated once a day.
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-Everyone is entitled to my opinion- Visit the new improved rescope.com.au
::dreamer100
06/07/05 6:49 AM GMT
Luke (stuffnstuff) makes a good point. 5 posts above.
It has always puzzled me that you subscribe to your images when you post and yet, when you respond to a subscription you've changed the rating slightly. If an image recieves a number of posts then your responding can add up and damage your own c-index. Can we have some kind of author access either from the Caedes Control or from the subscriptions viewing page that doesn't count?
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::CanoeGuru
06/07/05 10:06 AM GMT
Image comments do not factor in to the c-index calculation. Previously, your own views and dowloads were not recorded, however I just did a little test and it seems as if you are correct that they are being counted now. If I remember correctly, Caedes has mentioned before that this should not happen. Maybe this slipped through the cracks while Caedes was programming the new, temporary c-index?
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~~~~~ bleegity, blargity, blah
graphics_pro89
06/07/05 2:05 PM GMT
I guess its fair that 'everyones' picture ratings have gone down slightly.. but i preferred it when i had more than one picture that was 90 or over lol!! but oh well, nevermind..
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-Steve-
DeathScytheG
06/07/05 3:31 PM GMT
So, how do I find what page of the Author List I'm on without going through each page searching?
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-=Pride is not a sin=-
::Radjehuty
06/07/05 4:39 PM GMT
ya can't ;D
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"The person who says it cannot be done, should not interrupt the person doing it." -Chinese Proverb
::drgibson
06/07/05 4:54 PM GMT
After the c-index change I just start at the last page and work my way up. I figure I'm closer to the end then the beginning. :-) But I haven't actually done it yet it is still just a theory. I'll give it a try when I get a few extra hours. hehe
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Capturing for infinity that which only lasts for a short time.
::CaptainHero
06/07/05 7:42 PM GMT
As far as I remember, viewing and downloading your own images has always counted. I agree that they shouldn't do though, both because you can hurt your own images when responding to comments and also because you could keep clicking on your own images to inflate your views and downloads - though I think the cookie would only count them once per session.

If anything the 'new' c-index probably knocks your score up, since you generally get much less downloads than views. Unless you have loads of favourites on an image then the raw score may well be better.
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"The whole problem with the world is that fools and fanatics are always so certain of themselves, but wiser people so full of doubts." Bertrand Russell
::drgibson
06/07/05 8:18 PM GMT
Well I did an experiment. On any page I go to the views and downloads only change by 1, no mater how many times I view and download the image. If this holds true then just be sure to do a download of your images so you don't skew the score.
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Capturing for infinity that which only lasts for a short time.
*caedes
06/07/05 8:52 PM GMT
It only counts a view or download per ip address per 15 minutes or so. So if you regularly go to your image every day you will end up increasing your views by one each time.
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-caedes
::drgibson
06/07/05 10:13 PM GMT
Hmmm, does that go for downloads as well? Is it possible to look at both the IP address and the login info? That would limit the re-views of an image counting while still preventing someone from elevating their stats unfairly
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Capturing for infinity that which only lasts for a short time.
*caedes
06/07/05 10:42 PM GMT
Yes I could do that, but it would require that I store the ip address for every single download and view. That would quickly require more diskspace than the images take up.
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-caedes
::drgibson
06/07/05 10:50 PM GMT
Hmmm you can't just have it look at the login data of who is accessing the page on top of the data it already collects or are the logins directly tied to the IP address. Hmm this is getting complicated.
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Capturing for infinity that which only lasts for a short time.
*caedes
06/07/05 11:40 PM GMT
For each image I would have to store a list of everyone who downloads the image and everyone who views the image. For the current catalog of images this would require about 135 MB of raw data. Then there is the small problem of having to query data from this large dataset for each and every image view or download.
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-caedes
::drgibson
06/08/05 12:23 AM GMT
This is way to complicated. Now I know why Y'all play with Fractals it's something you do to simplify your lives, Ok, how about this. Lets create a mailing list, and we can send each other copies of our art (we can tape them to our screens. We can include a ballot that can be returned to Caedes (the man not the site). He can tabulate them and mail the results back to each of us. Sorry Caedes I couldn't resist. :-)
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Capturing for infinity that which only lasts for a short time.
::drgibson
06/08/05 12:25 AM GMT
I know when I'm overworking my brain. Ouch I hate these brain cramps. :0
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Capturing for infinity that which only lasts for a short time.
::xyccoc
06/08/05 12:35 AM GMT
wait.. darn.. im out of stamps.. can i send COD? lol
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And everytime I feel that my lifes a waste.. I just cant rid myself of your bitter taste.. - Me (Option21)
MythD
06/08/05 4:11 AM GMT
No stamps but lots of snails!!!
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DixieNormus
06/08/05 4:42 AM GMT
A word of advice......don't use duct tape to tape the pictures to your screen.



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scionlord
06/08/05 12:53 AM GMT
hey no worries, WD40 will remove the marks....wait a minute...is that advertising?? doomed....unless of course they get added to the advertising in which case, no worries.
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'Study the past, if you would divine the future.' - Confucius ................. Piece to Ponder : Glowball Extreme .. .. .. .. .. .. .. .. .. .. .. .. .. .. .. .. . These are the sorry recipients of minimal voting. Please make them feel wanted.... Magneato Shift (Collaboration), Blurred Boxes
grandslack
06/08/05 7:39 PM GMT
on the 'ratings' subject ... take the votes, factor in the downloads, factor in any contributions made to the site, add a random factor based on full moon and stock market values ...

heck .. if you are gonna confuse the masses, I say: "do it with gusto and panache .."
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::regmar
06/09/05 3:14 AM GMT
Sadly every time you make a change to the rating system all my ratings fall. It's OK, though - all in the name of accuracy
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ж Regmar ж
warocle
06/11/05 5:52 PM GMT
Everything in my gallery dropped by around 5 :(
My best one was at 95 now its at 88 :(
I am deeply depressed.
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co2metal
06/11/05 6:40 PM GMT
it's only a temporary fix.
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click here for pure excellence
Blague
06/14/05 10:23 AM GMT
Ok, I understand what's going on with the fix and such, but there's a strange problem with mine. All of my pictures are responding to the fix correctly(c index and rating the same)except for one. It has a c-index of 67 and a rating of 85 I believe...any idea as to what's wrong with this?
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*caedes
06/14/05 10:23 PM GMT
It probably doesn't have enough votes fo the c-index to be calculated again. The system was recently changed to require an image to have 4 votes before getting a c-index. If it had a c-index before the change then it wouldn't have been updated unless it have 4 or more votes.
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-caedes
Blague
06/14/05 11:09 PM GMT
Ok,thank you for the quick reply, and the explanation. Thank you for such a wonderful site.
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andrew11230
06/20/05 12:23 AM GMT
Wait, since the ratings count as the c-index, does that mean that the views and dowloads don't affect the c-index?
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*caedes
06/20/05 3:40 AM GMT
Yes, for now.
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-caedes
Flurije
06/29/05 11:56 PM GMT
Do you have any idea how long this temporary fix will be enacted? Just curious :)
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"Morals, like clothes, change with the fashions, or, perhaps the fashions change to adorn the morals." Florence Reed
::JOHANNA
07/06/05 4:57 AM GMT
Yes good question(just curious)......
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Carpe diem....
andrew11230
07/07/05 6:07 PM GMT
Yes, I would also like to know when the c-index will be working normally again. It has been a while since this change has been made.
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::JOHANNA
07/08/05 6:20 AM GMT
The same index score as a year ago,before a other change(lol).
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Carpe diem....
::JOHANNA
07/16/05 6:19 AM GMT
No answer on this question(lol).
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Joost.....Carpe Diem.......
andrew11230
07/19/05 9:42 PM GMT
When and if the C-Inex starts working like it should, there'll be a big drop in the C-Index.
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Click Here:andrew11230

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