OP by pastureyes:

"I have noticed that there is a decline in interest. Because I do not take general statements as a finished fact, I had to ask myself "decline in interest of which? wallpaper or photography?" Gosh how boring my life must have become, if I wish to worry about stuff like this. But because I am an well aged individual, I cant keep my thoughts to myself. So I will share them with you lucky hobbyists.

I noticed that over time, there are always new pictures posted. Sometimes not as many as years ago, and sometimes more than years ago. So I think I am safe to assume that interest in Photography, is strong.

I then look at the comments and discussion activity, and have noticed a decline. Does this mean that photographers have nothing to say. Are they arrogant and only comment on their favorite style or technique? I dont think so!

I think that there are more individuals than ever who have discovered that photography is a fun and quick resulting activity, that they can use in their daily events. There is no longer a need for experience in chemicals, darkroom, equipment, and or talent. Anyone can take a picture and they do. And of course they wish to share their creations with everyone.

Why the lack of comments then? one would think with this many new people posting pictures, there would be lots of discussion on style, technique or software. Maybe there is no discussion because there is so many postings, that we feel like we have BEEN THRU THIS BEFORE.

I have to confess that when I look thru the new images, I look for something unique and different. There are so many good images, that I am only interested in outstanding images.

I believe that there are two brains at work when a picture is taken. One brain is in the camera, and completes the technical tasks very well. The other brain is outside the camera, pushing a button. Most of the time NOT communicating with the brain inside the camera. This type of activity generates good, but Dull, Dull, Dull pictures. I am inclined to believe that this is why there is so little discussion.

Oh Rats! In proof reading my comments, I realized I forgot to answer my own question, Wallpaper is so easy to produce that almost anyone with little or no experience can create custom wallpaper. Notice I didnt say create good wallpaper! So I am inclined to believe that interest in photography is Hi - interest in wallpaper is in decline. Notice how diplomatic my choice of words was (decline) compared to LOW!

I could ramble on some more, but the boss has declared that Dinner is Ready!

I hope as you read this, you think about your own activities, and maybe create some interest by posting your thoughts.

The Boss must have purchased more stuff that we dont need, or she wishes to put some excitement into our marriage. Mmmmm! she made, meatloaf and mashed potatoes. My favorite!"


Annnnnd.. go!

hehe, great minds think alike...was just thinking of a similar move. The discussion has now resumed. Here are a few comments from yesterday's thread that I found encouraging:

from =Samatar: "If anyone has any initiatives they want to put into place to get more activity going around the place, I am always open to ideas.

By that I mean initiatives that people can run themselves, either as individuals or as a group, rather than suggestions for how the site can be reprogrammed, voting booths can be changed etc... those things are not within my control.

Other than that, all I will say is that if people just sit back and wait for someone else to "fix" things and make the site more active, you're probably going to be disappointed"

from Chris (coram9) "1. alter the competition rate so that non photographers get longer to produce artwork. Anyone who does CGI knows that 10 days is not very long to conceive and produce a piece of original work, especially if you are not retired.
2. Invite some previous artists back, if they have their email of contact details. write to them, say you enjoyed their work and how nice it would be to see them back again. I have tried this myself and not always successfully, but at least I tried.
3. Perhaps allow the moderators to suggest competition titles, as us members do come up with some rather boring ideas."

I would easily second that as I do remember when I first joined this site and how CGI images were far more prevalent than they are today...I, for one, am thoroughly fascinated by them and hope we can somehow get more of that back again. Not sure what the best way to do that would be but hopefully others will put forth some thoughts on that.

On the note of CGI, and the site being more inclusive where these particular artists and members are concerned:

Contests ... would be a good good start.


Part of a refrain mentioned many a time during the contest topic poll discussions;

"Try to keep in mind, when suggesting a topic:

i) Open to all genres of art. Not just photography."

And while a past suggestion, with respect to the above, has surfaced a few times.. having contests specific to CGI alone doesn't quite compute at this time.

In short.. not enough CGI artists to guarantee a good number of entries and in turn, justify the awarding of Cadre memberships.

Maybe.. at some point in the future then.

In the meantime then, perhaps some 'member-initiated' challenges by some CGI artists would help to fill the void. No Cadre memberships awarded of course but perhaps it would at least help to enhance appreciation of that art form and more participation/members in the future. Or, maybe some with the time and know-how might think to offer some tutorials on how to do some stuff...it's quite possible some photographers out there have secretly wished they knew how to create some of those CGI images but were afraid to ask.

Yes, I understand that the ultimate goal would be to try to create a more exciting environment around here that would naturally encourage more people to join and contribute and keep existing members interested as well. My previous comments about CGI artists was mainly to help show those existing CGI members that we do value their contributions and hopefully that would grow and thereby encourage other CGI artists who are not current members to join and feel at home here...if as Les indicated we don't have very many CGI artists on site at present, those who lean towards that form of art and happen to come across caedes might not feel like joining if they don't see more representation of that art form in our current galleries...if you know what I mean.

Ok, I'm done trying to make helpful suggestions here until people stop screwing around with the comments that are here one minute and gone the next...I'm not talking to myself here.

I am pleased to see this thread resurrected.
I believe I said probably more than enough in the dead one but would just like to make a point about there not being enough CGI artists to merit some separate contests specific to them with cadre memberships as rewards.
I would venture to suggest that very few entrants in any contest participate simply to gain membership. It is a nice bonus but not the driving force to enter.

I still think it would be beneficial to have some non photogtraphic contests with a longer time frame,and be able to compare the entries,and maybe learn a bit about how they were created. Who knows, maybe more members would be attracted to try some. As Pat said above it could be member initiated. No need for prizes, and the main contest could still be run. Or as I said in the dead dodo why stop at two.

Another thought - what about a weekly challenge - funniest image, greenest image, Top Cat image, hottest wheels,high flyers, most inventive image containing a piece of fruit . . possibilities are limitless.
Friday seems to have evolved into foofy flower day for many. Maybe another day could be designated as a day for, say black & white images. B/W Wednesday may work. Take part if you wish, ignore if not.

Attracting new members is important but keeping current ones involved and interested is as well.

Whenever a discussion, such as this one comes up.. at the forefront of my pea brain is the question; 'what separates Caedes.net from any other image sharing/desktop/wallpaper site?'


For me, at least and more so initially.. it was the quality of the feedback on the stuff I posted and available resources (i.e. learned and kind members willing to share their knowledge/answer questions, tutorials, discussion threads) that were the answer to that question.

Add in..

Some silliness of the Offtopic section of forums ('laughter being the best medicine' and a respite from the trials and tribulations of the day, simply put).


So..

Although this resurrected discussion has veered somewhat from pastureye's original post and the questions he posed .. if I may .. what makes this site for 'you' (speaking generally here)?

An artist decided to buy a new easel. He wasn't too sure what type to get. At the art shop they offered him two, a big one and a small one. He pondered for a while and finally decided on the lesser of two easels.


Oops.. made a wrong turn in the above post, thought this was the Offtopics.

:oP

TPBM has banned Les to the liarliar thread.... for that awful punny joke... hehehe...

friendship; a place to post my 'artwork' which is in the form of photography; other artwork on Caedes, namely fractals and paintings which comprise over 50% of my favorites; just being with other artists and photographers; the silly offtopic threads; the chance, especially when I was a newbie, to be exposed to really good photography so I could ask myself (and others), How did that person do that? Actually finding out how to do it, and seeing my own work get betterer and betterer.

If I think of more reasons I'll edit them in. ;-)

mary

Les;

I haven't taken the time to read this entire thread--some of the comments are nearly as long as some short stories I've read--but to respond to your initial query I think there's a few possible reasons commenting has dropped a bit.

Although some of us have been "speaking" to each other for years, in most cases we don't really know each other very well. I've gotten to know a handful of you in a more personal way, even hosting one of our own Cadesians and his wife here in my city last year. But we don't have a handle on what response we'll get if we say more than a perfunctory statement. Anyone who's read my comments knows I tend to get a little verbose, interjecting observations, suggestions, and whatever in my comments. Several years ago I made a simple observation about something in a comment for one of our European members and that individual decided I was their ethnic blood enemy, spying on them through the web, and they began leaving the most vile comments on my work, my bio page, and in PMs. An obviously unbalanced person who is still a member today. Not knowing, at th time, that I had recourse to assistance from mods to get this member to stop the attack, I simply left the site for about a year, coming back with a different "code" name. I'd be willing to bet this sort of thing has happened, to varying degrees, to other members, causing them to curtail the size and content of their comments, not wanting to invite another attack (however it doesn't seem to work too well for me--I can't seem to keep my mouth shut:).

For some others, perhaps they've been here too long and just got tired of the work necessary to keep adding to a gallery and commenting on all the submissions they'd like to. I know my enthusiasm sometimes waxes and wanes but I stay with it, partly because of my membership in the Caedes Kiva team.

Some of the anger and back-biting that has surfaced in some threads can also be a real turn-off for members (I'd give it a 20, Mr. Clark--it has a nasty melody and I can't dance to it). We have lost a number of long-time members over the past year or more but we've also gained some new ones. I like to see our more seasoned people welcome these new ones, giving their enthusiasm a boost instead of a drag.

Having been a member since 2006 though, I have seen general member enthusiasm swing back and forth several times. Maybe we're just in a slump? Maybe we need a big virtual party to get us all back on track again? Maybe Geri needs to talk to us, not having heard anything from him for some time. Maybe cats and dogs need to put their differences aside and stop this bipartisanship? Maybe I shouldn't make political inferences? Maybe.

-Nik

I, for one would like to see more CGI artists...This IS, after all...a community of artists as the homepage states...Art is not limited to just photography, and there are only so many things, even with stellar editing and manipulation skills and techniques...you can do with an existing photograph...Illustrations, drawings, paintings and CGI's are limitless...

Part of the problem is the fact that illustrations, especially CG-based ones have a tendency to take time and effort (as stated in one of the above posts)...I realize we all have different levels of talent, creativity, and skills, but there are quite a few in this day and age that cringe @ the very thought of putting a little bit of labor into what they do... Pitiful!!

It's not my fault the terminology of W-O-R-K has become a newfangled "four-letter-word" :P

...Just my two cents...

Contrary to what some may think, it takes a lot of work to take a good image and a lot of effort sometimes in addition to get the final image to look as you want it. Many steps are involved in getting from the initial image to the final presentation and photographers can be extremely creative. I sure wouldn't sell them short by any means. Personally, I can work on an image for hours if I chose to because as I change things like contrast and color, etc., other ideas pop into my head and I can end up with a dozen different versions of one image alone. I'm not patting myself on the back for that, but I say it is for us as it is for a writer who keeps rewriting his first draft of a story or article until it is polished and just the way he wants to present it. That is creativity too.

All of these venues take time and effort.

I have the greatest admiration for the skill involved to create a CGI, Illustration, or any non-photography work.
I agree in part with Ron that there are some that cringe at the thought of effort and WORK. I don't think the day and age is all that relevant though - I believe it has always been so.
We are inclined to expect instant results in many aspects of life today - instant meals, instant oven cleaner (on my mind because I cleaned my oven today and the 'instant' claim was a rotten lie !) instant everything, BUT in the main perhaps the results in any art form reflect the amount of work and effort put in. Not just into a particular item but the amount of learning and preparation done to achieve it. Unless one is a true genius and they are thin on the ground.
For many of us the creation of CGI etc is a mystery, and though we may not understand the actual creation we can still enjoy and admire the results.
For photography no amount of fiddling with post work will make a poor base image into a work of art although it can in many cases improve the final result. We all have to try to improve our skills without getting too serious about perfection which can diminish the enjoyment.
Photography can be 'instant' but for the most part involves not just taking a photo - getting out and about to locations for landscape work can take a lot of time. Waiting about for the light you want, risking life and limb for a good angle (not that I do much of that). Returning home to the disappointment that the meal preparation fairy has gone on strike and the garden weeds not having the decency to stop multiplying for the day - it ain't easy !
Having said all that I get really fed up sometimes that I venture far and wide, try to 'learn' my camera, fuss around with post editing - then my son can go out with his mobile phone and sometimes snap images without a thought that I would be proud to have taken. He relies on instinct - sees a good shot and clicks. Sometimes we can become so bogged down in getting things right that spontaneity goes out the door and good chances are missed.

Ditto to what Lyn just said. I once kneeled on the riverbed of a stream here in North Dakota, endeavoring to capture two large birchbark canoes paddling toward me, each loaded with about a dozen people. They were moving at a pretty good clip so as I was shooting I was walking backward, slowly rising as the rivered dropped away until I was floating and shooting. The entire time, the only part of me the paddlers in the canoes saw was my head, hat, and camera. As they passed me I turned around and dog-paddled back upstream, holding my camera high and out of the water, until my feet touched sand again. There have been plenty of photo-ops that my wife would call "hair-brained" but to me are matter-of-course. But I am not just a photographer for my agency; I've been the graphic designer here for 30 years so I have an appreciation for all of you who use your computers to illustrate, manipulate images, create CGI, and produce fractals. That's why most of the contest theme suggestions I make, like the current "Layers" contest, are the type we all can enter. I see Caedes as a wallpaper site and, frankly, almost anything can be a wallpaper. I create graphics of all kinds in my position, specializing in detailed and historically accurate maps, and I can tell you that takes time. The last map I researched and drew, in closed vector polygons, took about 50 hours and 700,000 hand-placed anchor points to create. If we're not actually able to "walk a mile in someone else's shoes," then we should at least be able to imagine it. I had no idea how you fractalists spin your craft until my old friend Tealves Lori explained it to me. Now I look at them with better eyes.

-Nik

Opps!

I am the owner of a personality, ripened by hundreds of secrets. When people meet me for the first time, they usually feel at ease and secure, till they discover one of my secrets. Then, they are not sure what to do next, or if I can be trusted. I can always tell when individuals find peace in what they have discovered about me, because they all use the same phrase "you are so full of it"

How would that make you feel? . . .Im used to it. I believe all artistic expressing individuals, understand my opening statement. They all have personalities full of secrets. They all have a desire to express creativity or imagination, and they discover that this trait is not restricted to a certain type of individual. To share your secrets with others who have something in common but are not comfortable with, is stressful, and exciting.

One of the secrets I am going to share with you, is the reason we are on this or other sites. We want to share. We want to share our knowledge, and we want to share our energy. But the secret is that we are scared of what people would say, good or bad. Otherwise why share.

I have been around photography for many years. Years ago, I was working with some South American Military personnel. They wanted to produce a practical joke on one of their comrades. How funny it would be to insert the image of their friend next to a lady of the evening outside a popular bar. This was in the days before Photoshop and computers. All editing work was done in a darkroom. I was young and stupid so I agreed. I can testify that I was scared. I had NO prior experience and I was scared of what they might say. Using a movement of the hands called painting and shadowing, pencil marks, and a negative projector. I got it done. I was surprised by their glee in viewing the results. From that point on I was hooked. I no longer was interested in just plain ole photography, I produced a desire within myself to create photographic manipulations. This all happened back in 1969.

Today they are called CGI, Computer Generated Images. Big Deal! years ago we called it airbrushing and luck. The reason they (CGI) were so popular many years ago, was because people were stunned, just like they were back in 69. How can images like this, be produced with a computer. We all knew that computers were invented for us to play solitaire. CGI images take a tremendous amount of time and work to produce while the end product must look like its just the most natural thing in the world to do. Many, many times the image I started to do results in a image completely UN-intended by me. Knowing how to start, when to end, is there enough detail, and the countless IF's is driven by the desire to share the finished product. All the details are per-determined by the artist, the viewing and the comments are determined by the viewer. The problem with CGI is that the level of expertise is so high, that to generate excitement is difficult and time consuming. Just look at some commercials on TV or see the special effects in movies.

My original intent was to generate comment on why so few comments were being generated. I am so pleased to read the comments by the dedicated, who have no control over the interest of our members, other than to generating interest by submitting our art. Why have I stayed on this site, and not merged to others? because the level of comments that I crave are not as plentiful on other sites.

Before I get too long winded, and my wife yells at me for spending too much time on the computer. She likes to play Solitaire. What is the secret about me that troubles people so, when they uncover it? For just a minute or so my prankish humor wanted to persuade me into not revealing it yo you. . . . . .. . . . .I was a Propaganda Specialist in the Military.

I was a damned good proofreader and copy editor... until I was obsoleted by the advent of computers in the workplace, in this case a local newspaper. I lost my job. Now I'm a creative photographer who uses a computer to post images and fraternize with other photographers, artists and CGI artists. How ironic a secret is that?

I'll believe you were good Mary, what I am most happy to read, was when you wrote "Now I'm a creative photographer" I noticed you inserted the word "creative" So that made me curious. I went and visited your gallery. This may sound like I am sucking up, but hey! you really are creative. I now am thinking. . . .if you only just now revealed your secret, does that mean you are old, just like me? :)

depends on what your definition of 'old' is... just kidding... let's just say my first crushes were on the Everly Brothers... all both of them. But I was really really young at the time. heheh

Thank you for visiting my gallery and saying I really am creative. I photograph what I see and it's an honor to have that validated.
Took a peek at your gallery... you are very creative too. I especially liked the one where you borrowed your wife's bundt cake pan and she made you clean it afterwards... but such is creativity... one has to sacrifice in its name. And I loved the results!
mary

"For just a minute or so my prankish humor wanted to persuade me into not revealing it yo you. . . . . .. . . . .I was a Propaganda Specialist in the Military."


Heyyyyy.. wait a sec!

So.. all these pamphlets is your doing, Moose?

(*glances at pamphlet in hand titled; "Poo or Art?" *)


Back to the OP question..

I think that many a Caedesian also spends time on other websites. Whether they be more image sharing and/or social networking in nature.

And.. as a result, time available and still maintain a presence on the sites is lessened.

Resulting in 'shorter' and lesser comments overall.


Then there is this;

"One of the secrets I am going to share with you, is the reason we are on this or other sites. We want to share. We want to share our knowledge, and we want to share our energy. But the secret is that we are scared of what people would say, good or bad. Otherwise why share."

Wonderful observation Les,
I have noticed that the comments on other sites is not as fulfilling as on Caedes. If my observation is fact, then why so little discussion on Caedes.

To spend time - whether on this site or others does not diminish the desire to comment. I believe that the desire to comment is the root issue. Time is an excuse that is accepted and used by majority of people, (shuffling my feet) including me. Now that I have some time, I believe that if just comment was the bases for my effort, any site would be acceptable. Its the quality of comment, that fuels the desire.

Poo or Art was a sarcastic humor effort to expose issues for debate, but resulted in little or no results.


We seem to be careful in our comments not to excite or inflame an individual, to avoid the crude and non-productive remarks. As has happened many times before. I choose to be different, I want to offend everyone, I want to hear what people have to say. I am sure I can accomplish this by speaking the truth, saying what I really think, and hopefully learning from the opinions of others. I need to have an open mind, and to make room for new stuff by eliminating old useless knowledge. I cant do this by spending my time re-arranging my sock drawer. Desire is fueled by availability and quality.

Because this is the internet, and I cannot describe things with my hands, I need to substitute humor to remain non-threatening. What I have done in the past is not as important as what I am about to do. Snooty pointy-headed intellectuals can only comment on my art, if I do not provide the reasons for its existence. Does this mean I should not reveal the reason for my art? Na, I want the genuine comment, and not weird psychobabble. I still believe we all want to share, and we all want to grow from our experience thru comments. But whats it gona take to make it worth our time? Or shout my final comment be - whats it gona take to fuel my desire to gain knowledge thru comments,. . . exposing my thought?
My wife whos opinion I respect and search for at times, has been reading over my shoulder. . . .she left the room, muttering what sounded like "ole fool full of psychobabble -rap!"

"We seem to be careful in our comments not to excite or inflame an individual, to avoid the crude and non-productive remarks."

"I need to have an open mind, and to make room for new stuff by eliminating old useless knowledge. I cant do this by spending my time re-arranging my sock drawer. Desire is fueled by availability and quality."

Hear, hear.. Moose.


"I have noticed that the comments on other sites is not as fulfilling as on Caedes. If my observation is fact, then why so little discussion on Caedes."

Ahhh, ok then.

The original question distilled and I would agree in part with what you stated in the OP;

"Why the lack of comments then? one would think with this many new people posting pictures, there would be lots of discussion on style, technique or software. Maybe there is no discussion because there is so many postings, that we feel like we have BEEN THRU THIS BEFORE."

Adding in..

I believe the site's membership average skill level is constantly in flux. So, the 'quality' of discussion discourses changes and varies as well.

I'd like to see some of the older members return...There's a variety of photographic and CGI creations (and everything that lies between) for you...

(Hands Les the megaphone)

Go to it! Sound off like you've got a pair!

Lack of time IS often used as an 'excuse'.
Sometimes it is not lack of interest but really is genuine lack of time as members' commitments to other things waxes and wanes. Some members disappear altogether for a period because of other commitments, others hang in with fewer uploads and briefer comments until they are in a position to participate more fully again.
Maybe some really do need to spend time rearranging their sock drawers in actuality.
Some may even have to go to work to earn enough to BUY socks to populate said drawers.
Or perhaps some are busy knitting their own socks.

There is little interest in the Photography discussion board - Poo or Art was a welcome diversion.
How about taking a look at THIS link I posted there and perhaps others could explain some of the techniques they use to actually obtain their shots. Only one person appears to have noticed that posting (and I know who it is of course :) )

"I believe that there are two brains at work when a picture is taken. One brain is in the camera, and completes the technical tasks very well. The other brain is outside the camera, pushing a button. Most of the time NOT communicating with the brain inside the camera. This type of activity generates good, but Dull, Dull, Dull pictures. I am inclined to believe that this is why there is so little discussion."

Think Moose's thoughts above are supported by those images that go beyond 'good' and most certainly, 'dull' ... as evidenced by the number and type of comments on the image's pages in the Main Galleries, for example.


Take a look at your own galleries and search these out ... contrast and compare those images with those that were politely met with the more commonplace comments.

Might be one way of rearranging one's sock drawer.. and getting rid of those 'lone socks' (no, you really don't want to look for it's match.. let it go, move on) and working towards elevating your own creative craft.

Then.. once you've become a rich and famous artist, you can buy your own private tropical island and guess what?

No need for socks anymore!

Got some sad news for you...Many artists don't really become famous until after they're (:X DEAD X:)!

You want a private tropical island? Turn up your heat settings, erect some faux palm trees, pour about ten bagfuls of play sand on your living-room floor, and set your Sirus radio to the "All-Bob Marley Channel"...

Oh, and don't forget the Ganj! :D

I know this sounds silly but to me Caedes reminds me of the TV show "Cheers" a friendly place you can go where everyone knows your name. People come together to share their photo's, artistic creations, give helpful tips, exchange ideas, leave interesting comments, learn about the world and share important life events. I am gone sometimes for long periods of time as a traveling gypsy but know when I return I will get a friendly welcome back.

NOOORRRRMMM!!! I mean... DIIAAAAANNNEEE!!!

-Nik

Well i'm kinda back... so hello to everyone it's been awhile unfortunately real life took over for awhile but hopefully i'll be back more now...

I just wanted to throw my 2cents in (aussie wording sorry.. lol)
I've had a quick look at 144 new images.. I gotta say that i was a bit disappointed not only with the lack of CGI images but the lack of quality even with the photography images (a lot of snapshots).. I think out of 144 images I viewed I would say around about a dozen were suitable for wallpaper or even good quality..

When I came first discovered Caedes (years ago) it was buzzing with creativity, people commented with tips and ideas on how to improve (thats how I learned)I noticed not many comments at all on most images which is a shame how do you expect artists/photographers to improve if nothings been said? I didn't have time today to leave comments but i'll be back and trying to do what I can to help people..

Such a shame... and where the hell is everyone? have we lost that many members??
What has happend while I've been away? have the artists/photographers lost their inspiration? have they lost the pride in their work? some of them that have been uploaded gave me the feel that they've just said "well I made something to post that will do"

Come on guys you can do so much better.. this site used to be the best place on the net to look at beautiful unique work where people would download it for wallpaper and leave you a message of "WOW that is amazing great work"(I know this isn't constructive but it gave you a good feel that someone at least liked it and appreciated the hard work and passion you put into it)..

Sorry for the rant.. but I was shocked and disappointed with the work..

Well, Jackie, it seems that the members weren't taken too seriously, our concerns were not addressed and life was made difficult for some "old" and some new members as well by those in charge who should have known better. The AC died, Caedes no longer responds to member input and inquiry, and one mod seems to be running the site single handedly, promoting only those images he favors to the permanent gallery. The situation is untenable for those of us who really cared about this site and did our best to promote good art and good commeraderie. What could have been is no more and I sincerely doubt that Caedes will ever return to its past state of quality and popularity.

While I agree there's been a decline in member usage here Cyn, we cannot jump to our own conclusions about the people involved. I know for a fact that one of our mods has been involved in a family issue in the past month or more, trying to ease the passing of a loved one. These folks do have a life beyond volunteering their time for this site. Whenever I start to think I have a bit of a gripe with the way things are here, I now try to stop and think about why something appears one way...it may simply because I haven't put myself in their shoes. Let's give'em a bit of a break, shall we? There may be a good reason we haven't thought of. As for Geri, he is still here and working on solving current problems. If you check the "What's Up With This?" thread about the bots swamping the "Most Active Member" list, you'll see he is still with us.

-Nik

No one denies that we all have private lives that can take us away for extended periods. I have not 'jumped' at conclusions, Nik.
What I had to say was based on months of sitting back and observing. Surely there is more than just one mod on the site, though for expedience there should have perhaps been new ones made over the intervening years.

Sure, Geri is here now because the site is being compromised, but most of the time no one seems to know where he is and he does not demonstrate a great deal of interest in his creation nor respond to the members who approach him directly. I know about the other threads, Nik. You don't have to talk down to me. I think about these things as much as you do and so you say we should 'give them a break', then how about they give us a break too. Read the thread GOD BLESS THIS CHILD.
Perhaps, you don't know or don't care to know what some of us are thinking or how we feel about what we see happening here, but the question has been asked about what is going on and I am attempting to provide a few answers. That's it.

Wow, Cyn.

It appears you want to jump to your own conclusions, erroneous as they may be. There's nothing I can do about that and, since you've decided I don't care to do so, I won't. Happy holidays.

-nik

I already explained to you that I did not 'jump' to conclusions, Nik. I however did conclude that it is pointless to carry on a conversation with you though because you ignored every thing I tried to explain.And you have concluded that my observations are erroneous anyway, based on no evidence to support such an accusation. Happy New Year to you too.

Consider this:

--In our larger cities, after a rain storm there is often an oily sheen on top of the rain puddles.

--The American national debt is so massive (over 80 trillion dollars, if you include the accrued payments to our citizens for Medicaid and Social Security) that it will be nothing but a crushing burden for our children, grandchildren, great-grandchildren, etc.

--$3.19 per gallon of polluting fossil fuel actually feels like a good deal.

--Worrying about dying in a plane crash is secondary to the angst induced by simply trying to board the plane (the 911 terrorists did actually succeed in changing our lives).

--The biggest health concern for poor people in America is obesity.

--A bag of groceries that cost $10 ten years ago now costs about $40.

--Family farmers that wish to pass their farm on to their children are taxed at such an exorbitant rate that it can easily affect how America feeds its citizens.

--A lunatic can walk into an elementary school and murder defenseless first graders with an assault rifle, while private gun owners can sell guns at gun shows and not be responsible for keeping track of the people who buy assault weapons from them.

--If you wish a heartfelt Merry Christmas to some folks, you take the chance of offending them.

--The Caedes website, while enjoyable at times, is simply a method of allowing people to exchange images and learn a little about each other. Try to imagine that an individual member’s demand or desire to be happy and satisfied with everything on this site has any importance at all in comparison to the other stresses we deal with in our lives. Perspective can be a wonderful thing, as long as it's understood.

"Sure, Geri is here now because the site is being compromised".

At the least, this portion is a conclusion that may be a logical one, but is not necessarily a factual one.

Apart from that, Happy New Year's to all, I'm off to celebrate with my kids.

I re-read your initial post on this thread, Les, about questioning why there aren't as many comments on images as there once was. I don't know about the rest of the membership but I find that there's a certain faction here that welcomes constructive critique of their work ("I would have cropped in from the top just enough to eliminate that sliver of unnecessary background"), and others who think you are attacking them personally when you say anything at all. Reading back just a little in this thread illustrates that. If you try to point something out about an image or another comment you run the risk of having it misinterpreted and getting your head ripped off. Who wants that? The only way to avoid it is to make a list of the thin-skinned members and avoid them or, if you do comment, make it a bland back-pat... and who could possibly want THAT? I've been a member here since April of 2006 and the responses to comments have definitely changed from then to now. It's a different group of people.

Personally I think the site may have reached a point where we can seriously start re-injecting some life back into this place. Much of the internal, personal bickering seems to have stopped, as far as I can tell, so maybe now we can get on with using the site in the way it was intended without having to worry so much about stepping on peoples toes or bruising egos...

That would be nice.

interesting discussion, i havnt been around for a while, mostly because life has been lets say... very trying over the last year, and because mostly the stuff i have taken have been weddings, portraits, events and i have had little time for stuff that i like to shoot for myself. if this was a photography site, i could post portraits and stuff, but, its primarily meant to be a wallpaper site, although it hasnt seemed to have been one thing or another for a while which is where it gets lost a bit. i learnt alot here, and made alot of friends. but, the main reason that i stopped posting here, is the quality of images dropped, the amount of bickering increased, it just seemed to have lost its way a bit, i logged in today to see what was going on, and i only had 30 odd pictures in my friends list to check out, usually it would be well over 100, and i thought, where has everyone gone? i just always wanted to post here because everyone was friendly, i was inspired to learn, but then it just got so everyone was fighting about stupid stuff, c index and blah blah blah. id love the site to get back to how it was and be one thing or another and i would love to participate more again. if that makes sense, i never was very good at sensible discussions! heheh xx

/\ Is very, very.. very, drunk.

Actually, i thought Jan's comment was right on.

I think I have reach that age in life where I do not know if I am the problem or I am the solution. I read Jan's comment with great interest.

I have been a member since 2007. I have seen everything Jan has spoken about and addressed. I think the arguments were a spice and I looked forward to seeing what was going on in the Discussion Board each night when I got home from work.

I enjoyed voting in the voting booth. I liked my pictures getting a point value added on and I was passionate in the arguments of fairness generated by those numbers. But, loving or hating them, I felt it was a tool or measurement that drove me to do better.

I liked reading about the "Artist of the Month." Everyone wanted to be the AOM, back then. It was a moment of pride, of arriving. What happened to it? What has happened to everything?

We were just looking at the possibility of starting AOTM again, actually.

drunk? moi???? never.....!! hehe

I still come to this site every day, keep some favs an some new wallpapers, maybe ill post some?

Yes! Some of us are still here, Steve, and we would welcome your art and input!
mary